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The thing I always point out with Lemieux... he was rarely healthy. And I'm not talking the _what if?_ game. _What if he'd played as many games? What if [...]_ No, I mean the games he played in, he was rarely healthy. How good was Lemieux when he was injured, sick, hobbled, etc.? Those aren't hypotheticals. That *IS* the Lemieux we saw. We never really saw a healthy Lemieux often, and he's *still* in the conversation with Gretzky.
Every Mario fan points out basically the same idea right off the bat. You rarely see a comment about any of his actual on ice accomplishments. You are no different. It's like his injuries are the only reason people think he's good. Wayne suffered a rare possibly career ending back injury as well that needed surgery to help him play but how often do you see someone start talking about Wayne with that?
While Wayne had four 200+ seasons, he actually scored 200+ points at five different ages. His birthday splits his seasons. At age 20 he had 217 pts in 84 games, at 21 he had 204 pts in 80 games, at 22 he had 221 pts in 79 games, at 24 he had 204 pts in 81 games and at 25 he had 205 pts in 80 games. Mario's birthday comes days before the season so each of his seasons are all played at the same corresponding age to that age season.
Mario also won 3 Stanley’s as an owner, so technically, he won 5 Stanley’s to Gretzkys 4. Because let’s be honest, Gretzky could play but couldn’t transition to any other position and be successful. So overall, I would want Mario on my team vs Gretzky. I like how they mention, the oilers were stacked when Gretzky was there and Mario had to slog for at least 5 years until he had talent to work along side him.
In Wayne's first two years he played 159 games and had 301 points. In those same two years, Messier, Lowe, Coffey, Kurri and Anderson played 497 games and had a combined total of 313 points. These are the hall of famers that are supposed to be responsible for every point Wayne ever scored yet it took these guys 338 more games to score 12 more points than Wayne in the first two years of the Oilers' existence. Not sure I would say the Oilers were stacked from the beginning. In Wayne's second year he broke Espo's points record and Orr's assists record that were both set in 70-71. The top four scoring Bruins that year had 152, 139, 116 and 105 pts. (the only four players to score 100 in the league that year) When Wayne broke those records in 80-81 the top four scoring Oilers had 164, 75, 63 and 60 pts. Kurri's 75 points was good enough for 35th in league scoring.
Lemieux! No question. Gretzky was soft and had enforcers protecting him. Lemieux did the unthinkable when he touched the puck. Granted the game has changed and is much faster and skilled than in their era. However Gretzky wouldn’t keep up in today’s league as opposed to Lemieux who would.
Gretzky was soft yet somehow played in just shy of 94% of his team's regular season games. Big strong Mario suited up for just 66% of his games. Wayne and Mario played in "The Enforcer Era", everyone had goons on their teams, even Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is the team responsible for trading McSorley to Edmonton after he played 15 games with Mario. Even the league was trying to help Mario break Wayne's records but he just wasn't good enough. No team had more powerplay chances in Wayne's first nine seasons than Pittsburgh. Edmonton was ranked 18th out of 21 teams in those nine years. Mario needed 491 powerplays to score 199 points and 500 pp to score 168 points. The Oilers only had 295 pp when Wayne scored 215 points. Mario couldn't really do much without a ton of powerplays. That's one reason why he is not the greatest.
MARIO - not even close... Mario played with less talented players for several years and did not have an enforcer taking care of him and a League that was told 'not' to hit him like Gretzky ...
Even Gretzky said that if Mario was healthy and played 20 season, Mario would have beat most his records. I'm confident that Mario would be one of the only player to hit 1000 goals with most likely Mike Bossy.
Moore definitely over played the injury, sad to say it but he was an AHL guy at best and probably wouldn’t have played a regular shift he even admitted he shouldn’t have even been out there, and it was less Todd and more of it being over 800 pounds on top of one guy in the scrum that caused it and it was a minor injury as far as spinal injury’s go
Winning four Stanley Cups (1984, 1985, 1987 ,1988), Gretzky set records in both regular season and post-season play, holding the record for most career regular season goals (894), assists (1,963), points (2,857) and hat-tricks (50). Stats, not feelings.
this argument is rather silly - like hairs where microns can be involved ... throw in eras, team mates, injuries, opponents, longevity, accomplishments, points, defensive ability === truly endless criteria ... throw in Orr, Messier, Crosby, Brodeur, Roy, Howe, Sakic and more with many players from decades ago ... now we have international Stars in the NHL ...players are better now, teams are better, goalies much better ... let us enjoy the NHL now - always with changes on the horizon ...............
⬛⬛🟨🟨🟨🟨⬛🟨⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛🟨⬛🟨⬛⬛ His opponents underestimate him because of his size and because of his ‘ rat ‘ reputation. They do not respect his abilities as an elite two-way player enough and he can get into the scoreboard as easily as he gets into their heads ! ! ! ⬛🟨⬛🟨🟨🟨⬛🟨🟨🟨⬛🟨🟨🟨⬛🟨🟨⬛🟨⬛
I met Derek in spring of 1989 when he was representing or just telling his story around at various venues… Like high schools and junior high schools… I met him in the parking lot after I heard And I was a basket case trying to stay sober… And he stopped what he was doing and talk to me for an hour and it changed my life forever. I’ve been sober ever since and I just wanted to thank him for what he did for me his story one night
Lemieux most talented, but greatest/best doesn’t equate to most talented. It’s what you did on the ice that counts and Gretzky by so many objective measures was not only the greatest hockey player, but probably the most dominant player of any of the 4 major N American sports. It’s fun to speculate on what a healthy Mario MIGHT have done, but it’s just conjecture.
