Shame on Kurzweil for not allowing perfect direct importing. That’s just lazy programming on their part or them being cheap and not paying to do it right. I’m not impressed with their lack of consideration for their loyal customers.
Thanks for your video. Do you think the same sound quality issu happens with PC 3 vs PC4? I saw a video of a PC3 demo in Brazil and I was blown away with the quality of the pianos of the PC3 vs PC4...
Short answer: you can do a lot more with a K2700. You can make it sound just like the K2000-K2500-K2600-PC3K..., and better. I've done that. This guy doesn't have much knowledge-skills of using the Kurzweil system and that's why he can't make it sound the same. That's all.
@ARGProjects Not sure what question you answered, but yes, K2700 has more features. What guy are you talking about? The Kurzweils can be made sound the same except the missing LPGATE algorithm can not be accurately reproduced because the filter attack envelope can not be programmed accurately enough. The only problem is that the K25 file import function is so buggy that I had to spend work hours worth thousands of $ to manually correct the imported K25 factory patches to be able to continue my projects on the K2700.
That Moog saw sound sounds noticeably different to me. It has more balls on the 2500 (despite the fact that he played the right hand in different octaves).
Lots of poor choices. Did they not learn that the rubberized coating always fails? And why not keep the exact same keymaps for backward compatibility? And those rubber keys will eventually fail as well. Sheesh. The K2500 with the KDFX upgrade is superb. No noise.
I remember the 2500. I worked for a NY studio instrument rental and they went out everyday. Took two guys to load it in and out of the truck because of the weight the road case. Even when other keyboard brands became popular the 2500 still rented. That keyboard has toured around the world with the biggest bands in music history. It wasn’t one of my favorites but it was mandatory for top keyboard players. You name them. They played it. Rock solid on the road. We almost never had to check them when they returned. No broken keys? No liquid damage? Back on the shelf for the next rental. It was the ONLY keyboard that went out everyday. World tour? 2500. Large rental? Two or 3 2500s. One small group that needed a one night rental? 2500. It was a keyboard players go to keyboard FOR YEARS! We had Korgs Rolands every keyboard you can name. Trust me, multi million dollar top tier recording artist demanded the Kurzweil 2500. The 2700 will never be more popular.
On the 2500 does the sliders normally assign themselves for sound editing ie filter cutoff resonance etc ? Or do you have to assign it yourself each time for each patch ? Im looking into a k2600 and unlike the 2700 and other synths ie yamaha where you can with one button change what the faders do, so go from editing to sound levels to midi.
Sorry, you focus on what you may use/need, not in the apples to apples, like you did with the noise. But if you play the Pink Panther like you did .... man ..... stop doing this
@@GrimVoxTech well, I saw several of your Kurzweil 2700 videos, and I saw you playing. I am so sorry for the perfectionist ... but.... the Pink Panther theme is not like that. I am so sorry, I am 61, and in the 70s the Pink Panther cartoon in the TV was .... every single day the 30 minutes disconnection. So ... I have that melody so stick in my head, that when someone doesnt play it right .... About the apples to apples, sorry you dont know that expression, but you did the comparison about the noise in both units, great. You compares apples to apples. But then you started to compare based on what you use .... well, your videos never told me if I can make my drum's kit the way I want/need/desire/expect/prefer/etc, with the K2700 (that no, you cannot, then I got a Fantom 8), and OK!! is my way. But when you compare two things, you have to compare apples to apples. Like what you did with the noise, or spurious in the sine waves ... that was fantastic. Thank you
@@marianosanchez3209 I don't know the Pink Panther theme and I have no desire to play it. In this video I demonstrated that you can replace the sax sample that was wrongly chosen by the import function by the correct one and then this factory patch will sound correct. "But then you started to compare based on what you use": I can not compare anything without using it. Comparing by reading manual or specification would not be interesting to anyone I believe.
Thank you for the video, you could make as many as you want on the 2700 for us newer users. In the Moog comparison the 2700 isn't using the KVA oscillators, that by itself may make a difference? And Obviously any EQ and/or compression will make a difference. The biggest difference I heard was in the attack on the 2500, the first 40 milliseconds, a slightly slower attack and decay envelope opening. This may also give it the illusion of more fullness. But I agree with you the difference is easily compensated for in a mix, or on stage with EQ/compression/envelope change. Been playing keys since 1967, and hearing about this VAST synth since around 1990. Every Keyboard magazine I read back in those old days had a Kurzweil advertisement speaking of their "superior" sound design architecture. After hearing them boast for 35 years, last year finally bought one :) !! I chose the PC4 because it is going in a studio and the plastic construction is just fine. My first synth was a JunoAlpha2 bought new in the mid 1980s, then about 100 synths since then. So I am not new to sound designing. My first shock with my Kurzweil was the unstable operating system corrupting with just simply auditioning patches, then when sound designing even worse corruption. Thankfully these are minor corruptions that can be corrected by using the MIDI PANIC button, so once I discovered this fix, I didn't need to power down to clear anymore, and am okay with it, but certainly not impressed! And it will corrupt while working on as little as 4 modules. I have not gone to 32 and probably will not. This PC4 has the full VAST sound engine including the KVA's and a full DX7 FM engine, plus the samples (keymaps). So, I don't think I am missing much by not buying the 2700... besides memory. I really like the 4 pedal inputs giving me up to 6 pedals to modulate patches in real time, nobody else offers this (plus a ribbon). I am going to keep working with this synth because I am curious and not afraid of any new OS. VAST isn't the most complex OS I have used, since I create my own style patterns in a Roland E-A7, arranger style creation is the most complex OS of them all, and I have used 7 different arrangers so far. It just takes a little time to full understanding and that is my motivation on any synth, full understanding so I can create 80% of the patch in my head before sitting down in front of the keyboard to finish.
You could definitely make it a more accurate Moog sound with newer V.A.S.T. using not just the KVA oscillators, but the new Ladder filter Model, which is a 4-pole one. I am not Grimvox, so wouldn't want to reply instead of him, but I suppose he wants to get the K2500 tone as exact as possible because of the already composed songs he mentioned. Secondly, regarding the stability of the O.S. issues that you are having, if the latest firmware hasn't fixed this, it's most probably a hardware issue with your synth. The V.A.S.T. O.S., considering all it has to do is one of the most stable ever. It's more about using V.A.S.T.'s abilities for Sound Synthesis, although the arrangement facilities are there too. In practice, what that means is that you can create almost any synth or any studio with several synths inside of your V.A.S.T. keyboard.
My own approach to sound design moving from older V.A.S.T. to newer would be to recreate the sounds but taking advantage of everything that can make the sound better in new V.A.S.T.
@@yashnu Thank you so much for the response and help. There is very little available help on this synth and half the YT video's are in German. Are you saying I have a defective synth (boards/electronics) with my OS stability?
@@yashnu Firmware is current, the first thing I checked was my firmware number. Remember this is not a 2700, but the PC4. Maybe I made a big mistake with this model?
You can remove the rubberized coating from the plastic using acetone or IPA. If you don't and don't keep that rubber lubricated, eventually the rubber will start to melt and become sticky.
not saying it's never correct, but there are always people who will say old stuff is better and new stuff sucks. No matter if they hear it or not, their mind already said it is the case.
In this case, it is real but reality in more nuanced than that: some things are better in old V.A.S.T. in K2500S and K2600S: Live Mode and all it allows, as well as Vocoder Mode. These two don't exist in newer V.A.S.T but the latter does have several advantages too and is generally more powerful DSP-wise both in the synth side and in the effects side.
About minute 7:00, you compare both keyboards' effects in terms of noise, which is of course very notorious on the older K. The K2000/K2500 Digitech FX chip was always criticized for its noise level. Did you run the test using that stock chip or with the KDFX option? Thanks.
The big problem the K2700 has isn’t how it compares the K2500. It’s how it compares to the Fantom, Nautilus, and Montage. Those boards have modern, larger touch screen interfaces. The K2700 is stuck in the past with a smaller, non touch interface. Those who cross shop find it harder to take this older design seriously. Also, the soft touch plastic elastomer materials aren’t durable and should’ve been abandoned years ago. Yamaha, Korg, and Roland aren’t building their keyboards with a built in failure point like this. The K2700 would be great if it had a more competitive interface.
@@matthewgaines10 Yikes. A large touchscreen would certainly keep me away. That would be too close to using plugins on a computer. And I don't like fingerprints on my screens.
The new display is certainly better than the old LCD. It is a very "wordy" list of stuff, but I am getting used to it. I own a FantomO6 with the same size screen and it is the best menu (screen) interface I have ever used. But I am versatile and highly motivated and WILL get full understanding of this synth. I think the one improvement for the Kurzweil screen would be a mouse pad under it so we don't toggle through it anymore. The new Roland Gaia2 uses this technology and would be a great help to our Kurtzweil's. but already bought into the screen as is and it will be a decade before I would ever replace this new synth.
That's really the wrong way of comparing Synth platforms: it should be about the sound, and eventually the live performance abilities. You can read the comments in the various YT comparison videos to see which one people prefer by a large amount. If you want a large screen, you can use the external software Editor on an iPad or a desktop and project the latter on a huge 100" surface.
In the K2500, the Digitech chip is the default for effects. To mitigate the noise, here's what you can do: internal to the effect you are using, there is a Wet Gain and Dry Gain or Mix (I forget the real name of it as I use KDFX with my K2500 but you'll know on editing the effect). Set that to Max for the Wet one. Save the effect. After you do that, you can then use a smaller Wet % outside the effect. This reduces the noise. A KDFX can also be installed, but it's rare to find a separate one nowadays. So what you can do, since you also have the K2700 and the latter has KDFX internally as well as audio input to it, is to set the K2700 effects as AUX Sends in your Mixer. Then you can disable the Digitech on the K2500 and route the K2500 to your mixer and make it benefit of KDFX too.
Checking a K2600 Keyboard: there is a more compact material than chipboard under the actual KB assembly, around 70mm thick. It should be a similar thing in the K2500. The whole MB assembly including this does make for a quite heavy object.
Very nice video. I love It.❤ I was one of the first programmers to have the K2700 and I programmed many sound libraries for Kurzweil too. What I regret is seeing people criticize such a powerful keyboard, without knowing anything about it. The K2700 is a very powerfull Synth/Workstation
Indeed: 30 years after V.A.S.T. was released, there are people criticising thus Platforms. As someone with quite a deep knowledge of V.A.S.T. - I used to write Advanced Programming Tutorials for the K2000 - I can assure everyone that 99% of these criticism stem from not knowing the whole capabilities of V.A.S.T. and what is around it in the workstations.🙂
I agree with everyone that's been saying that you should offer these sounds for sale. You could call them Grim25 or something. This is your work! YOU have painstakingly recreated these sounds from a vintage instrument. People do this all the time. I would buy them for sure. And now a question, have you converted the sound Alaska? I used to use that quite alot back in the day. ❤ Keep up the good work! 💪😎👍
Hey man. Just came across your channel. Really cool seeing how you are able to load other synth sounds into the K2700. I’m really interested in seeing what happens with the D-50 project you are working on. Thank you for the content. 😎
Greetings Grim- Thank for this pure musicianship demonstration- Also, your VOICE DEFINITELY FITS YOUR CHANNEL NAME....Its very signature! Have yuh tried doing VOICE OVER WORK? Cinematic/animation CHARACTERS? Also do you have tracks you sell? Mi looking for some the things you doing on here...NO SPECIFIC GENRES. Just THOUGHT PROVOKING, EERIE AND DANCEABLE. Thinking MARVIN GAYE OR CURTIS MAYFIELD type DARK, AMD HAUNTING And CHORDS PROGRESSION MOVING lyke you do here. Or if you sell INTROS and loops like you were doing here. Kindly let me know! Mi do MI OWN SOUND, however..., mi always open to others collaboration or suggestions. Mi really enjoy your playing style and creative mind!...Mi have a lot of music out on AUDIOMACK AND ALL SONGS ARE TRENDING CURRENTLY,,,But mi want sounds dat PAINT A STORY and that s what you were doing here- again, KINDLY LET MI KNOW. Big ups...Blessings and nuff Rispek- SUBSCRIBED!
Tosi laadukasta! Nämä videot kyllä kantsis vinkata vaikka sinne K2700 facebook-ryhmään, todella hyödyllisiä monelle joilla on joku K2XXX -sarjan keyboard. Monet heistä voisi jopa rohkaistua ostamaan näiden takia K2700:n 👍🏻
Hi Grimm Vox Maybe you can help me, course my K2700 is brand new and the editor plugInSE is making trouble. It does not really works quiet good. Produces some mistakes, but one thing is really strange. It filters out Sustain Panel Data. If I connect the Kurzweil in Cubase via MIDI Track directly. IN OUT on the Track, Sustain works fine. If I send it thrue the Editor to Controll the Kurzweil the Sustain Pedal does not react anymore. Do you have a solution for that?
Yes the attack is obviously one difference. I actually have about 5 different versions now of this patch. All slightly different, none are exact. Replacing the LPGATE exactly with filter envelope is impossible. The reason is that Kurweil envelopes can not be programmed with enough precision. Ideally it should be possible to adjust the attack envelope at 1 millisecond or finer resolution. The attack is very important of a sound, and a tiny change makes the sound very different. But my ultimate goal is not to make a 100% replica, but to make a good sound that I can use in my songs.
Yes of course ,you only need to follow my loading instruction if you have working .syx files. But some people make their own patches on the DX7, which is rare though. And I have found several .syx files on the internet that did not work unless I fixed them first.
Great Performance with the K2700. Maybe you can make a Video to Show in Detail how you work with the Sequenzen or arpeggiator to Produce such Sound Cluster . That would be interessting
Hi Grim Vox Nice Video. I m new in the world of Kurzweil. Bought just last week my K2700 and realized what I was really missing in my music life for so long. I like your idea of making a D50 Editor course I had a similar idea with the Kurzweil. Maybe we can stay in contact for that. Also great playing Sounds that you are playing in your video. Thats the style i love . Specially your First Music snipped in your video. Hope I can do the same with my K2700 soon. I will follow your work!
I very much like your scientific and unbiased approach in your videos. I'm a musician and engineer with a science doctorate degree, and also love retro gear. Great playing also. Greetings
