Comparing Kurzweil K2700 to Yamaha DX7 

Precisely what I was going to say.

Thanks! When you import the DX7 .syx files they will be pure FM patches without filters. I think you should be able to add filters if you like to.

In my video after this one, I explained how to fix a buggy sound by shortening the envelope to prevent a "buzz" sounding longer than a short attack. This buzz made that patch sound brighter. Probably this is the reason for other patches also sounding brighter. So just a software bug/mismatch that can be fixed by editing the patch.

Yes, if you like gritty the mk 1 is the way to go as the improvements to mk II removed some of that grit.

So true! I certainly won't let go of any of my old synths, ever.

Disagree completely. The Kurzweil sounds better. Understandably since the converters are far better than those of the DX7.

I agree as well. I'm listening through a mixing console and Focal monitors and the difference is actually staggering on some patches. The bells/chimes are a nice match as are most of the emulated acoustic instrument patches but the really synthy patches are quite different, especially the bass patches. In general the DX7 sounds warmer (yes I own a DX7 MK1). The Kurzweil will do an amazing job in a live situation but I wouldn't use it to replace DX7 for recording purposes.

K2700 sounds cleaner and fuller, I agree. @@Abruzzo333

Sorry I skipped the FM string patches. I have only a few in my favorite library as I prefer using analog, virtual analog or samples for strings instead of FM. The DX7 strings I have, sound perfect on the K2700. I did compare trumpet, clarinet and calliope in this video. For wind instrument I also often prefer other than FM sounds. Harmonica and harmonium, of course, sound great with FM, also on the K2700. In general most DX7 patches sound great on the K2700, and those with some differences can be tweaked a little to improve the match. A brighter sound often means there is some modulation going on too long after the attack and can be edited to be shorter.

It would be equally easy to emulate 12bit by truncating. The YM21280 and YM2604 chips have different amount of bits in different parts of the engine. You probably refer the 12bit vs 16bit to the DA-converter. Yes the DX7 mark1 sound more gritty and many likes that. The K2700 has a quantize algorithm. I suspect it could be possible to chain an FM program to that algorithm and make a gritty lo-fi version. Myself I like crispy and clean sounds.

No, there is no compatibility with Roland patches. Of course you can program your own and mimic some classic Roland to some degree. The MKS 20 I think use a very peculiar synthesis of piano sounds that might be difficult to mimic exactly. The K2700 relies on a large set of piano samples, which sound very good and realistic, and string resonance synthesis can be added on top of that to get more dynamic variability.

@@GrimVoxTech yes sir I totally agree in terms of the Kurzweil piano sounds. They sound so 🔥... But I was wondering about the FM EP type sounds...

@@GrimVoxTech can you load sounds from like Kontakt Native Instruments. I seen a video of the Kronos able to do it, is Kurzweil able to do it?

@@crandallexpo0648 If they don't advertise it I doubt they will support it. Samples can be loaded in wav and other formats.

Yes the keybeds are very different. Good theory that they would affect the sound. But I don't think so. They affect the feel, but then you play differently to get the sound you want. I don't play by muscle memory but by ear. There is only the velocity that controls the sound and you can get the same velocity range with both keybeds. But nice that you noticed the differences. The most difficult part in emulating another synthesizer is to get accurate envelopes. I did code a DX7 emulator some 30 years ago. I did get the timbre correct but the envelopes only vaguely similar. As in my demo video of fixing one of the patches I needed to speed up the decay time, otherwise there was a brighter buzzing sound. There are probably similar differences in the attack times. They could be fixed by tuning the parameters.

Yes, velocity and synth action may be the reason the Kurzweil sounds a little muffled compared.

Had the sounds been triggered by the same board, results might be more accurate.

@@saxmidiman the already (barely) audible differencies are quite enough to let you make a first opinion . Besides, these keyboards use different sound engines so, even if the patches were played through midi with identical velocities, the result would also bring some slight differencies. The point is whether a keyboard fits your needs.

Yes the "Wurlitzer" has a buzzing sound in the sustain that the DX7 does not have. And the "Plucatan" has a very interesting digital swirly sound on release, which the K2700 does not have. At least those sound I tried with different velocities if that would have any effect, but it did not. You could adjust the K2700 velocity curve to better match the DX7 but the default is close enough. The feel of the keybed is certainly different. As I ordered my K2700 from abroad, I did not have a chance to try it out before buying. I was a bit scared how I will adapt to the weighted hammer action keys as my previous experience is only from the non-weighted keys or semi-weighted K2500. But no problem at all. The K2700 keys are light enough and really nice. I feel quite comfortable playing organ and synth sounds on it too, although it feels slightly odd - but I'm getting used to it. Yes, about stalling - the K2700 also stalled initially if I kept one of my USB stick inserted when turning on power. But they still update firmware and after I have updated firmware and changed to another USB stick this problem went away.

Thanks! Importing DX7 sounds to Kurzweil is easy. You just put the .syx file (MIDI SysEx file) on a USB thumb-drive and then load the file to fill some program locations. But some .syx files found on the internet are different than others and won't work! Dumping the patches from the DX7 to a .syx file over MIDI is more tricky and I actually had some serious trouble dumping the .syx to my DX7 as I have not done that for maybe 10 years or so. Thanks for the good idea of video topic - I will try to make one sooner or later.

As using one board to control both synths was requested earlier, I did that in my next video. But that did not help.

@@GrimVoxTech One thing I had forgotten...DX7 did not respond to the full MIDI range of 127...only 100. Not sure when, but they did go to full 128, maybe on DX7II. But if your DX7 is the earlier, there really is no way to cross compare with exact results. You could compress your MIDI range to max at 100 (you could do that in Reaper), that might give the appropriate results. But I keep asking myself...why do this? Not that relevant. Kurzweil sounds great...all that really matters.😎

Yes good idea. That would eliminate differences in velocity curves and keyboard feel. But like I demoed the sounds that had some differences between DX7 and K2700, maintained the differences no matter how hard or soft I played them.

Jep, Suomessa olen. Nuo taitaa kaikki olla DX7 patchejä. Sekin voisi olla hyvä testata miten K2700 osaa ladata DX7 II patchejä, jos osaa.

@@GrimVoxTech 👍 Jos testaat niin laita video

Pohdin hieman asiaa ja jos olen oikein ymmärtänyt niin nuo patch sysex tiedostot ovat identtisiä DX7 ja DX7 II välillä. Tuo mark II tuo vain lisää mahdollisuuden kerrostaa kaksi ääntä päällekkäin, microtuning jne. Nuo siirtyvät erillisinä sysex viesteinä/tiedostoina. Epäilen että K2700 ei tue näitä DX7 II specifisiä performance ja microtuning sysex dumppeja enkä viitsi edes testata. K2700 layereita voi olla jopa enemmän ja niitä on helppo tehdä joten en kaipaa tuolle tukea.

Yes! ❤

I did not use a filter. There is a global EQ, but I think/hope it was flat. But this video was kind of waste of time because the patches were totally wrongly converted, using wrong samples and wrong parameters. It is comparing oranges to apples. I later fixed the patches and now they sound identical. I did a demo video but did not have time to do a sound-to-sound comparison again, except one, as it is a very hard job.

I have now almost finished porting most of the K2500 factory patches to the K2700. Almost all sound identical now, if not taking into account that the effects are different and the K2500 is much noisier and has distortion. I have started integrating the K2700 to my workflow (DAW) and have run into more unexpected trouble. I don't regret getting the K2700. It is fabulous when playing the K2700 patches and DX7 patches. But the trouble of replacing the K2500 has been totally unexpected and very very expensive time wise.

@@GrimVoxTech thanks for your answer. I am with the doubt if I should get the K2700 or the Nord Stage 3 (second hand). I would get them both if I could. I will have them both for sure as soon I can. :)

Or maybe I can… but should I? (Big debt). That’s the question 🥹 the other problem is that in my country I won’t see them very often, and now I have both available at the same time. Music is expensive and not well rewarded most of the time.

@antiarguers You can find a comparison between K2700 and Nord ( I don't remember the exact model) on RU-vid. Both are good. It is about your personal preference. Viewer comments seemed to prefer more the Kurz sound.

@@GrimVoxTech yes I saw it. Thanks :). I am missing more VAST programming from the Kurz, to see how the sound tweaking behaves, as well as a video with the sounds which are not in other videos (example: scat choir).

Oh yes, there are some differences. One can slightly tweak the FM parameters to make the sounds more identical.

Yes. I have plans to make such a video. There are some tricks needed in some cases. It might do that next.

@@GrimVoxTech Thank you! Is it in the manual?

@@danielcolfer4671 Manual mentions that you can insert USB thumb drive and press load. But there are more details that are not in the manual. And some DX7 files do not work with the K2700 without tweaking. So it is a good idea I make a tutorial video about this subject.

Yes I am.

@@aholatom Thanks for the reply! I ended up going K2700 over the Fantom 8. Sounds like I'll need to use a DAW for sequencing to make it easier, but I'm excited for the new keys. Do you recommend any K2700 software from Kurzweil?

I remember replying to this question earlier - for some reason it has disappeared. Anyhow, the sound editor / librarian software from kurzweil.com is made by soundtower. It is buggy and seems not to have an user manual. By just browsing through sounds I messed up the patches in the K2700. Had to restore from a backup. I can not recommend it. I don't think there is anything else available. Some drivers maybe. I'm making my own software for the K2700.

@@GrimVoxTech Thank you for the reply. That is unfortunate.

That patch is "J Harp 1". Names of all patches can be seen in the video from the K2700 display. These are not preset (factory) patches but they are from my own collection. But you can probably find these online somewhere.

That would be "Leave Me Alone" by Michael Jackson ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-crbFmpezO4A.html

@@GrimVoxTech thank you very much, + 1 subs))🤍