What an ingenious solution. How do I buy two of them? Looking for a prone board to DW and something to prone with. I have an integrated mast. Will it work the same? What size board do you recommend for DW and prone. I am 5-10 180 pounds. So stoked to get a couple of these
Thanks for the kind words. Will work even better with an integrated mast, I'm going down that route myself when I can.. DW and prone - A question I ask myself - what would be the advantage of having the drive on a DW board over a small prone board for DW? I guess only if you wanted to paddle home in emergency? Otherwise you only need a prone board, no? mike@ktwo.surf if you are interested in a board - next production window we have is august.
Tried to reply but don’t think it went through. I would like to order one of these board How much is the cost delivered to Huntington Beach CA? Is it only one side available? If so fine. What size you recommend?
Thank you very much for making this fantastic video and sharing it with the world. This is my favorite video about the sensibilities of Foil Driving, and it's very relevant to me. I turn 68 tomorrow. I had a wonderful time learning to foil surf last year with a Foil Drive Assist Plus. I then decided to go after surf foiling the hard way, with only my mind and body. After months of frustration, I had only a few not-so-great rides to show for my effort. A few days ago, I decided to give up this crazy quest and become a Foil Driver again. I'm saving money for an Assist Max, and I'm hoping to be having much fun again before the end of 2024.
I'm doing something similar. How do you water proof the insert area? It's it closed cell foam so you don't have to? Also how are you securing the bolts to the board so they don't come lose over time?
The inserts are bonded in, so they don't come loose, but the threaded bar that I use is removable from the insert and if you don't put it in tight it does unscrew every time - thread lock sorts that. The core of all my boards is eps, so it's sealed with a 3mm layer of pvc and then glassed over, then sealed again. Reception perfect and totally sealed -
I really like your innovations and love to tinker myself. Also a recent FD rider who sees it as a game changer for many landscapes. One question: Do you have concerns for battery heat and not being able to dissipate when surrounded by foam. Or perhaps there is sufficient space and constant water flushing? I'm SO tempted to take a router to a board!
Warm up the router my friend. I dont have an issue with the battery - when you gun it the drive is in the water and cooled by the water - as soon as you are up and the case is in the air - you are pottering on 60%. The battery is a bit warmer than charging but not by much... No reliability issues in 50-60 batteries cycles yet... I chopped into a 25lt (4'x17") phazer just before this weekend to see if I could get it up - rocker not ideal and the board is tiny. It worked. Smaller boards are pretty immense to ride. I found a new rocker on one of our development boards that is a massive step forward, so that will help us bring the size down further. With regards to boards - this foil assist genre is completely different to normal board needs and wants. Closer to high level prone than wing I'd say.
@@rnetsch you could fill in the voids with foam and attach with velcro, we tried, but it's a faff. ultimately thinner battery, thinner box, better handling - we are working on a custom setup that has the components built into the board. Hopefully weight will drop, battery energy density is better with cutting edge cells, I would like to get the board as thin as a single row of molicell, but it's a packaging headache :-/
@@ktwo-surf curious on your AK Phaser...I happen to have the 65ltr 5-2 (for wing) and have been using it for FD. It's good! Thinking the 47ltr 5-0 would be better tho, esp with less width. Any chance you've ridden that one?
Maybe you are unaware that for the price of a foildrive unit, you could buy the board you want, build an equivalent system with of the shelf components, and place the battery box inside the board, resulting, in my opinion, in a better system overall and you would still save lots of money in the end.
Awesome. Well done. That looks superb. I’m still happy tinkering with my DIY set up and have another board in production with internal components but this looks fantastic for those going with foil drive. Great job 👍
Thanks James, it's good fun cracking all this stuff open. Lee and I are also working on a side project that you probably heard about - more along the lines of what you have done. It's going to be fun seeing how that turns out!
Awesome to see someone producing these! Once youve forked out serious cash for a FD makes so much sense to spend a little extra to get a dedicated board which minimises the shortcomings.
Hi Rich - send me a mail; mike@ktwo.surf the inserts in the inset are bonded in one position - so you have to keep it in one place - after all the inset doesn't want to be so big you have inch long gaps in either end.. inserts are placed according to your mast heads - most are 165x90, some smaller, some larger, but all 90mm apart.
Ive ordered my FD Gen 2! It arrives next week. I cant wait. Ill start out on my wing board, and see where we go from there. My next board will definitely be inset. I live in Cape Town and will be chatting about this to my mate Clinton from AK | Airush this evening. Thanks for pioneering this. 🤙🏻
Sweet. Cape town will be an awesome spot for this - so many spots. Should keep the toothie creatures away too ;-) Clinton and I have already been chatting.. 🙂
Received my Foil Drive and took it for my first flat water session today. It works perfectly! I used it with Clintons AK Nomad 55L 5’8” and AK Tracer 1300. 78cm ak taper lock mast, 20cm cable. I cant wait to take it into the ocean! Ive ordered my own 55L Nomad and some Plasma foils and plan to recess the battery as you have done. 👍
This anti-cavitation would be more efficient, being btw the propeller and the foil, imo, since the propeller generates a real cavitation. - The air surface interaction is a ventilation, nope a cavitation, but being more downward, it could stop it too as well..
Very true on the definitions, but it's air on the prop either way and stopping as much as you can makes it quieter and more efficient. It's not a massive difference, but it all helps, and I hate the noise it makes.. like a nice quiet ride :-)
True. All masts use a 90mm spacing between the tracks, but different brands use different distances between the front and rear. Lift for example is 165x90, AK 160x90, and axis I think is also 165x90. One of these boards in the vid was made for Lift and so we set the inserts at 165x90. Putting tracks in just addto the thickness of the things, which defeats the object of making them thin.. If you ordered one - you'd have a fair bit to specify - foil spacing - weight vs finish, preferred graphics, pads, strap inserts etc...
For everyone else's benefit, Martin here is one of the friends who bribed me to make him one after our surf trip to Ireland. That's my foot on the hull of his brand new board 😆
Anti-cavitation plate - (all outboards have them), set into a fairing to aid the water flow around the cable. Quietens the prop and stops those cavitation surges you get when the prop gets too close to the surface.. Makes a difference, not a massive one, but a difference...
Hi, have been enjoying the 110 l ak phazer v2, but want grab a smaller size. I used mine wingfoiling. Would you recommend taking the Phazer 90L over the Nomad 90L? Getting going in lighter air is definitely important to me, but also want to be able to ride waves. I'm 95kg dry.... So both boards could sink a little bit in the lighter stuff. But most people say these day that length gives you stability too, whereas width would help you get going in the light air.... What would you advice?
Hmm, The 90 Nomad was a fun board but at 80kg, I found the 115 better suited this shape. The additional power needed to get the 90 going meant you were in phazer territory and I like the thinner feel of the phazer for handling. So - if nomad it would have to be light and I;d be on the 115. I guess what I am saying is tghat I have 2 boards as the ultimate quiver. but - if you are only going to have one board, then I would go phazer, as personally my heart is in surfing and the phazer gives more agility on the wave. I;d sacrifice lightwind ability for that gain. This is a very personal reason though. 95kg - you'd want the 90 or 78 for stronger winds, perfect quiver for you would be 115 nomad and 78lt Phazer V4
Great discussion, it's also important to know the local waterway rule. In a lot a places powered craft are not allowed in the vicinity of swimming or surfing
there are rules popping up all over the place all the time. I'm lucky where I live - no stress at all. Tow boogie amuses me.. how do you classify that? It's like a sea drone, unmanned, powered craft trailing a long line! haha
@@brianwoodburn2050 I rode strapless last session and it’s very free, but when things get spicy the strap allows you to make mistakes and recover. It also lets you crank wide high at foils over from rail to rail faster… I do admire the elite riders when you see them charging strapless though 🙏👍⚡️
Great video. I am just getting into the sport but have a windsurfing background. So excited to get started and learn this method of water starting. Enjoy.
Really good, well considered discussion Mike, thank you. I make DIY ‘faux’ drives, currently have box on top of board between my feet, directly over the front foil. Looks awkward but actually easy to use because board is 5’6 Phazer and I can get a knee either side. Plan is to make a smaller board and sink batteries into the top. You mention you are going up in length on the next build, will you keep width and thickness the same? Foil Zone forum is an incredible resource if anyone is considering DIY. The 90L Phazer is a great option for down-winding, can easily move the box to the back of the board if I have to and paddle in. Do upwind wing, downwind assist sessions and it works so well. Thanks
Hi Micheal, great input. Here we go then...im a sup surfer, snowboarder, skateboarder and wanna be foiler..however ive just done 60 laps of the big lad 🌞. So this looks just the ticket. Can you point me in the right direction of set-up having never been on a foil before. Firstly board size..for a beginner..i'm 84kgs i believe you started on a 65lt board..should i be looking at similar or larger 'downwind' board? Mast size; I note 78 appears the most common length? Motor height / cable length; 20 or 25? Im leaning towards 20 for pump progression etc.. Foil size i have no idea? Any helpful tips greatly appreciated..
short mast is good because you are adding 5cm in the box, board - rocker is the key - a 35lt flat rocker board goes before a 65lt high rocker board... volume is not really relevant, as the drive and the foil do the lifting so the volume is for when you use neither.. 20cm motor is a good start. I use an inset board now so it's 15cm, but all usable, so get a 20 and then source an inset board later. Bigger foil to start - with reasonable span and efficiency - makes things steadier and then downsize as you get bolder! good luck!!
@@ktwo-surf Cheers Micheal, just to clarify would you recommend a high rocker first over a flatter rocker? . If you can? From a perspective of a complete novice would you state getting up on foil is sufficiently easy to learn within a relatively short period? I don't mind the struggle as I believe that's sometimes more rewarding. A friend is pushing a full Electric system but I don't feel that's for me. FYI I'm based in Blyth South Beach which looks perfect for foiling..thanks again, Andy. 👍
@@AndrewCorner-qn9lk low rocker only - like old ak phazer... full electric wont ride waves unaided - you have to keep throttle on them or they stop like a stone, and they are heavy so you cant surf properly (carve rail to rail). We are having so much fun, and we live on one of the best coasts in the UK for it...
There were three of us out yesterday on the best day so far, and though we still remember the pain of handing over the cash it has faded, and we do it all over again in a heartbeat.... It may cost, but get in early and you wont regret it...
Thanks for the brilliantly clear and inspiring video. I'm starting out on hopefully similar journey and wanting to ride small waves like you did in Dingle. Trying to do it on a bit of a budget and wondering if you think worth considering a used Foil Drive Assist Plus? thanks again for the great content!
Thanks for the kind words... Honestly - you'll be buying twice, so you might as well just get a gen 2. I know they are expensive, but right now it's the only option. I paid £6000 for mine including two batteries and a fast charger, thats like $8000. Hideous I know, but I'm fresh in from two mind altering days in the waves. It's just incredible for it round here and money is a thing, but these experiences are way more important in my eyes.
Great insight for new owners. I've recently got a Gen 2 for exactly this sped up learning idea being completely new to prone and all foiling and it's also working perfectly. Long time surfer but became apparent immediately that this journey would be a slog without the assistance of something like a foil drive assist. 100% money well spent so far. I'm now going to places and waves that even prone guys can't access 👍. The options now are endless and honestly it's taken the focus off integration within a lineup because now I can create my own. Enjoy 🙏
Totally well said. Yesterday we had our best day ever, 3 of us on drives on an isolated spot. Mind altering. Ridden over 120km in the last 2 days and well over half that was unassisted. This thing is just next level.
Hey Mike, I’d like to get a board shaped like yours. What are your board dimensions and how deep is the inset? Carbon? I’m around 170lb and have been riding a 40L board. Thanks in advance.
I use 4'8x21x2" in this vid, new ones are 2" longer but all in the tail behind the drive as it helps counteract nose lift when starting. it's a game changer for sure!
Just as a side note - sunday morning the forecast was good but I had to be home at 9am... I took the drive to the water at 0530, - 3 people out - 2hr 45 riding - did 3 batteries - 45km, 90 good waves (plus/minus). When I came out there were 60 surfers in the water, threw it in the van at 0845, home in 10 minutes. Honestly, if you tallied all the waves up that I caught in my session, and then tallied all the waves caught by all the surfers as a collective, I would not be surprised if my count was higher. I made sure I pulled off way before any surfers' takeoff points and had an absolute riot. There was no conflict, no dramas, just a ton of stoke, and a shed load of unpowered time on wave. People will always say that it's not purist, but how else can I get some much stoke compressed into such a short session?
Thanks for the kind words. that one was 4'8"x21x2" inset drive with a 10mm deck of pvc, through which I used 4x stainless blind T nuts that sat in the PVC. I used carbon tube bracing from the inset deck recess to the base of the hull at a 45 degree angle to stop twist. A shim of 3mm pvc was used to squeeze out the water between board and drive to aid signal - next one is 5' as I need some extra length behind the drive for a faster flatwater pickup, and majority glass construction as carbon is a signal killer :-/
@@ktwo-surf that’s excellent cheers. I am looking to have built 5’3 x 18 x2 and follow your insert design. I have a 5’3 x 19 with tracks forward. Have worked out my ideal placement. Now time to start the new board. My weight is 88kg and live the Armstrong ha 880 and 1080 foils. I look forward to your next vid.
Good video Mike, I genuinely think you should try prone foiling, you constantly say how hard it is, and yep, it is hard, but it's not that hard... With a big volume board and a big foil it's relatively easy and forgiving. All the waves in this vid would be perfect for it, even the small ones. My first go prone I got some flights, and that was three years ago and I wasn't a great surfer, I'm still very much a below average surfer. You've got the foil skills, paddling isn't that hard and I'm sure you'll realise it's easier than they say. Small boards and small foils make it hard, but paddling in and flying along on a wave is no greater feeling in my opinion... Give it a try... Let me know how you get on.
I will, I will... Thing is, my life is not rich when it comes to time. If I want to do some exercise - it's an hours' hit class, not a full day at the beach. I can do 60 waves in an hour easy, including ALL the best waves, and you just cannot do that prone... Made me laugh - one comment was "all gain and no pain" - not wrong. Also - you'd better get some anti twitch medication as everywhere I look, everyone calls riding a foil assist prone. Not me, I've now towed the line, but everywhere I look they are coming for your sport, wanting to overwrite it's definition with something inferior 🤣 One thing is for sure - My paddle is not coming out - upping the board size to use a paddle, I just don't see the point when I can do this... I could consider riding a low volume prone board if I can get up reasonably easy, pumping ability is doable on my 880 foil and paddling is not through a line break. When I get time to try I will report back :-) You'll have to suffer the dingle video next week through gritted teeth as it was 90% foil assist 🤐
Great to see an unbiased opinion of someone who used foil drive for more than one session. Question from a Kent based sup surfer: I've never foiled in my life, it looks like foil drive is the easiest way into foiling. Bearing the cost in mind we seldom get conditions like on your video. How good is foil drive on very choppy surf? How good is it when it's practically flat? Can I pump down a 1ft wave that won't even break and is just rolling /forming? Would you still go for foil drive if you could not regularly have clean surf? Thanks!
Hi Sir, Thanks for the kind words. Hmm, if you don't have waves then I would probably take up winging first. Foiling with nothing in your hands is harder to learn. This is a great way to get into waves that you would not be able to catch, but I'm not certain it would be the easiest entry into the world of hydrofoil. I could be wrong though! getting it up onto foil is it's trick - these days with modern high aspect gliding foils you can ride just about anything - but, waves are the best with smaller front wings..
@@ktwo-surf Thanks for the reply. Paradoxically using a wing puts me off as in a sense its a permanent assist whereas foil drive is there only to get me out and enable me to downwind or ride on small bump waves unassisted. Do you have any recommendations for wing and board? I am thinking 1400cm2 high aspect wing with a 40l 4.5-5 ft board?
@@DigitalPosion I'm not sure to be honest - when you are up you want the kit you will want to be using for the discipline, at whatever standard and conditions you have - but clearly the board is now different as you want the best handling board with the most control you can get away with.. I started on 65lt, then found a small board (15 lt) 4'8x21x2" with a flat rockert and inset drive pod that gets up as easy as the 65lt, but is like nothing on your feet - that's all I use now.. you have a lot of trial and testing ahead, but that's part of the fun - learning - advancing and getting better, and the drive lets you do this so well, it's addictive!
All I can say is I wish the old Kiteboarder forum was still going - The slagging would have been monumental! ( I am guessing parallels would be drawn between the need for a battery assisted device to get your kicks and other "pursuits") For the record I have a DIY version but I only use it when wearing a disguise! I am slightly worried that new FD users stray from the shallow end before they are ready to face a technical problem out in the deep end but - stay away from the crowds and have at it. Do paddle foilers have a place at the table at a crowded break ?- actually no - but having seen what Medano is like ( a complete free for all with only beginner surfers but every other conceivable craft including many FDs) it is surprisingly mellow. The coolest guys on the beach however were the pro paddle foilers for sure - if you are good enough ( not me - yet) you can ride around for ages without getting your kicks with a device that requires batteries!
Use the Gen 1 assist, because of less power I have to use my paddle quite a bit, I’m a paddler anyway so no probs with that and it keeps me fit, and I have to use the bumps so requires a bit of thinking about which in a way I like. A great tool for sure, lots of days on the water I wouldn’t of otherwise and places I wouldn’t be at otherwise.
Yeah, it's a lot of coin. My bill with extra battery was £6000 - $7500. It's a lot. I kind of forgot the pain of writing the cheque now, just left with the riding. A bit like childbirth (I have been assured), lol.
