We did realize that a little too late... just about the point where I say, "wait a minute... let's think about this for a minute." Then flip. Great learning experience.
Definitely man I know exactly how you felt! I imagine you were probably able to recover most of your gear with your dad there to help. In my case, I sunk my canoe in August and lost my $400 outboard motor. Not fun!
omg that track should be shut down and paved over, when you saw the viper and were in normal motion the car literally was bouncing, not to mention there are uneven sections around turns that look like a spinout waiting to happen
"I've got to admit it's getting better, A little better all the time." The late John Lennon. This video was in 2014, things have improved since, and plans are underway to repave!
I like how people talking so much shit on your old video fail to check out your channel and see your improvements. I imagine now you've improved huge leaps and bounds over that video especially seeing that this one is in 2015 and you're killin it. Keep it up man, perfect car for time attack! From a fellow S owner. Also if you're in TX I might run into you at the track one day!
+ACDCKISSACDCKISS Nice! Congrats on being a rare intelligent person with an s2k. I am hoping to get into spec miata soon... I hope we meet but not run into each other out there one a circuit soon. Thanks for digging a little deeper. Cheers.
It's funny how little of the story people get when an old video resurfaces. After watching this, I have to say, such an improvement! Keep it up and go and take that lap record!
+Quanta - Attempting to Play Games Thank you for looking a little deeper. Delaying judgement is indeed a sign of a wise man. Appreciate the encouragement... gonna get it with the next set of tires for sure... Cheers.
Huge improvement...and you're not riding the shifter anymore and took the loose items out of your car. Amazing how much you can learn in a few short years.
I watched your fail compilation first, very satisfying to watch this video afterwards, lol. Would still suggest lowering your hands to 9/3. Also, just out of curiosity how tall are you?
5'7" My steering wheel has bumps that conform to your thumb... at like 930 and 230... there is something in the way at 9/3 that prevents you from being able to wrap your fingers around... I tend to like the position but I am curious if there would be better control if it were designed 9/3.
+idamon Try resting your thumbs on the notches at 9/3 and they should fit right in. Your s2000 stock steering wheel (as well as most aftermarket steering wheels) have these notches designed just for this purpose :)
+seraphimsg Great advice... I usually prefer to have one thumb locked around the notch and the other more loose... I do not know if it helps... many people say to have both thumbs not wrapped around at all... and running parallel to the wheel surface... to allow better maneuverability. But, I prefer to wrap one thumb around, usually left thumb.
How funny that I google search drone following race car and first video is you Arthur! Awesome video. We have to do this with a massive battle of S2k's and Miata's sometime.
Congratulations....you've come a long way in acceleration,steering and corner entry and exit since the last video. Glad to see these videos :).Keep on practicing and drive safe! ;)
looks like about 90% of the time you've already resigned to losing control before the car is really beyond saving.. also - you're in an S2000, they have a quick steering rack.. hands at 9 and 3.. only need to move your hands around the wheel if it's gonna take more than 180 degrees of lock, and if its that far gone you probably need to put both feet in.. and stop holding onto the damn shift knob, it's not gonna run away.
You mean this is what happens when you go off track completely sideways. It really has nothing to do with countersteering. If you go off the track sideways and catch on something you are going to flip. He obviously went of the track and went into a muddy/soft dirt area where the car just dug in and flipped.
1998NeonRT Correct. But, you are missing the point... if you try to countersteer every bump oversteer, even the ones that are very far gone, you will eventually pull a tank-slapper and leave the track sideways with all sorts of scary physics in play... aka the first wreck in this video.
You need to countersteer AND recover, quickly and decisively. You don't want tankslappers, so take Skip Barber's "CPR" to heart. Correct (actively steer into the skid), Pause (wait for a moment after you've caught it, while the slide stabilizes), Recover (It will snap back the other direction as the loaded suspension unloads, so quickly get the steering back ahead of it). Two examples: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-v3sEISaxBTk.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2p6fDZ3XKtI.html By now, you should have plenty enough experience to know and feel when it's about to come around, and be proactive about it.
Great points. Though it is not easily said, it is still easier said than done. I have gotten much better with practice, geometry changes, new tires, etc..., check out my video "s2000 vs dodge vipers'... it is a more recent video with some good saves that could've turned into tank-slappers. Honda s2000 vs Dodge Viper(s) on the Track 6/14
idamon Oh my god, SO much better. Nice work! Now, if you want to make it even easier to drive the car faster while not being so close to the edge of spinning, dial back the strut/shock stiffness on both ends of the car. Your ride is way too choppy and it's hurting your cornering power and catch-ability.
***** Interesting, well I was told by the pros at the circuit to dial up the stiffness to try and reduce bump-oversteer and it has worked. However, I also increased the front stiffness much more than the rear to induce understeer and I think that is what has made the biggest difference. I will try dialing down all four corners keeping the same ratio and see if it improves my times. Cheers.
oh, and 2 things, invest in a racing harness that also has a crutch strap, you will not credit the difference it will make (and do it up so tight that it is verging on painful) and also, sit closer to the wheel. Look at F1 and NASCAR drivers. It gives much better car control.
I had a brand new S2000, 1999 edition, at at the time I was shit scared of being agressive with it, and yes went off the track many times. I now race an SC400 and have excellent car control. What changed? I got people who know how to drive to sit in the passenger seat and show me ie... tuition. If you join a good car club you will find really good drivers who are only to happy to help you. It really works. Keep at it mate!
I don't understand why you're trying to accelerate in the corners, thats why your car is probably oversteering and you have to counter-steer. In my opinion and other basic racing facts, let off the throttle when you turn in and when and if you get near the clipping point, get back on the throttle. Especially when youre going downhill from the crest. You'll be gaining momentum from gravity anyways. Gain time at some corners and lose it somewhere else. It doesn't have to be pedal to the metal everytime. Once that vtec kicks in you're off anyways, why do you need to counter-steer/under-steer? Shouldn't be a problem ESPECIALLY with an S2K. It doesn't make sense that you lose control here and there. The chassis is very well balanced at 50/50 weight distribution and enough power and torque to conquer nearly every corner. I'm not saying you're terrible, I just feel like you need a lot more practice.
I agree with you that the physics make the most sense to let off the pedal during the point of the turn with the maximum lateral g's.... that way the car is perfectly balanced 50/50 at the apex... however, that is not the advice I am given from track "experts" and from reading "racing" books. "Experts" will recommend trail braking into the majority of turns and transitioning from deceleration to acceleration just before the max lateral g-spot of the turn.... that way you are accelerating and there is some weight on the back tires giving them more grip during the toughest part of the turn...
I've been a right seater in the canyons. Probably, the most scariest and exhilarating feel in the world. But of course that is different from a circuit. But from what I'm seeing from your pov. When you're coming over a crest it just makes a huge difference. Any rwd oversteers which is what they do. And fwd understeers. That's basic. It doesn't matter what "experts" say. It's when you're actually driving is when it counts. Trail braking over a crest will make your back end loose because the rear end of the car lifts and your tires will lose traction. Yes, I haven't driven the s2k but sitting in the passenger side, I feel pretty much everything the driver feels.
***** I think we are trying to say the same things... trail brake into the corner, transition to acceleration before the apex, and the best way to rotate the back end out is to slow down during a turn?
Wait...no. not the best way is to slow down in the turn. The guy who runs the touge in the cantons who gave me a ride along pointed out that you don't trail brake to get the back end lose. If you want to purposely get the back end lose, you just flick, accelerate, and counter-steer.
I hear your point on not wanting to counter steer and being afraid of spinning harder in other direction. Can't be scaried stay on the gas maybe even a little more and counter steer over. A slight drift. So it's a little smoother and scary as Fuck lol. Once you drop that pedal and you counter steer to much your spinning out like crazy.
haa increíble usted aprendió a conducir bien...!! Usted y el S2000 es una misma pieza... No levanta el pie del acelerador en las curvas, enhorabuena. Sus videos reflejan el progreso de la conducción.
idamon You remembered my first steps in the circuit, also off the track constantly, my Rx7 was not easy. Where is your circuit? regards My English is not good, sorry
El terreno quedo perfectamente labrado... hehehe La próxima vez mejor un tractor... Hay que reconocer que el circuito es muy malo, parece una montaña rusa, lleno de baches.
You should to a skidpad a try to control the car when oversteering. Its ok to just have fun on a track but you have a s2000 and that car is no forgiveness queen as a mx5, you really should try to control it because if you had a wall or other cars nearby you could't just let it go as you did. I am no race driver but i would be frightened to not being able to recover a car in such conditions, nor trying. Trust me, go to a skid pad and learn how to do it, you will be gratefull later.
idamon first of all you re hands are not on the correct position, especially on those areas where you know the car is more prone to be unstable, second, when there are bumps you should mantain the care straight and not touch the steering wheel, and if the are bumps inside a corner you should loose speed before and accelerate mildly throught the bump
idamon get the seat a bit more forward and always drive with you re hands 9:15, during cornering do not let go the steering wheel, shifting only before or after cornering, break before.corner and always corner with your foot on throttle, that way the weight is ttansfered to the rear wheels which have the grip
My first thought was "why are you giving up so early" but then I read below about the countersteer. I'm pretty useless behind the wheel but I tend to reach full lock before I give up. If it does come back the other way then letting go of the wheel and grabbing it when you're heading in the right direction works most of the time. Those little '5s/miatas practically drive themselves :-)
I agree that it appears that we have given up early on trying to countersteer, however, what you are not taking into consideration is the feel... The vast majority of these spins are due to what is called "bump-oversteer" where a bump causes the car to start to rotate while it is at the apex of the "jump." This rotation is quite obvious when you are sitting in the car but difficult to judge when watching the film... so, the times where it appears we have "given up", in actuality, we have, because we know the spin is not recoverable based on feel and trying to counter steer will make for a more violent spin in opposite direction or cause odd tire angles when going off track sideways...
I take your point, and it does look bumpy as hell, which can't make it easy, but in that moment where it is coming back headed for a spin in the other direction there is a window of opportunity to recover it. You've gone for the safe option ditching in a semi-controlled manner rather than attempting to get full control by risking a tank slapper. That's what I mean about giving up early, I'd be having a go at bringing it back under control even if it meant risking a more violent spin. With a bit of practice you'd be catching it more and more. Giving up before you've reached full lock is something the french would do! You seem to do alright though, it looks like great fun!
benpowersification Great points. I have been moved by your discussion to attempt this full lock, never give up, American racing attitude! Get ready for tank slappers to pop up on the next couple months... they are quite scary but I suspect that you are right that it is best to not be French. Cheers.
idamon Its always better to avoid being any more French than is absolutely necessary ;-) And you'll find a few spins on my own channel, keyboard warriors seem to think to be a good driver you just get in a car and go, rather than recognising that in order to be good at anything you need to put the practice in...
Sam Stewart Excellent point. Check out my video vs vipers, I can finish laps when I am not pushing the limits... Honda s2000 vs Dodge Viper(s) on the Track 6/14
