I had a brand new S2000, 1999 edition, at at the time I was shit scared of being agressive with it, and yes went off the track many times. I now race an SC400 and have excellent car control. What changed? I got people who know how to drive to sit in the passenger seat and show me ie... tuition. If you join a good car club you will find really good drivers who are only to happy to help you. It really works. Keep at it mate!
Looks fun, wish I had the time to get my AP1 out to a track. Looks like you guys learned alot from your time on the track, much respect for showing your mistakes!
Thanks for the support! Remember that life is too short to not have fun. The best thing about these s2k's is that it only takes good fluids to get them out on the track... just saying!
Sam Stewart Excellent point. Check out my video vs vipers, I can finish laps when I am not pushing the limits... Honda s2000 vs Dodge Viper(s) on the Track 6/14
oh, and 2 things, invest in a racing harness that also has a crutch strap, you will not credit the difference it will make (and do it up so tight that it is verging on painful) and also, sit closer to the wheel. Look at F1 and NASCAR drivers. It gives much better car control.
looks like about 90% of the time you've already resigned to losing control before the car is really beyond saving.. also - you're in an S2000, they have a quick steering rack.. hands at 9 and 3.. only need to move your hands around the wheel if it's gonna take more than 180 degrees of lock, and if its that far gone you probably need to put both feet in.. and stop holding onto the damn shift knob, it's not gonna run away.
You need to countersteer AND recover, quickly and decisively. You don't want tankslappers, so take Skip Barber's "CPR" to heart. Correct (actively steer into the skid), Pause (wait for a moment after you've caught it, while the slide stabilizes), Recover (It will snap back the other direction as the loaded suspension unloads, so quickly get the steering back ahead of it). Two examples: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-v3sEISaxBTk.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2p6fDZ3XKtI.html By now, you should have plenty enough experience to know and feel when it's about to come around, and be proactive about it.
Great points. Though it is not easily said, it is still easier said than done. I have gotten much better with practice, geometry changes, new tires, etc..., check out my video "s2000 vs dodge vipers'... it is a more recent video with some good saves that could've turned into tank-slappers. Honda s2000 vs Dodge Viper(s) on the Track 6/14
idamon Oh my god, SO much better. Nice work! Now, if you want to make it even easier to drive the car faster while not being so close to the edge of spinning, dial back the strut/shock stiffness on both ends of the car. Your ride is way too choppy and it's hurting your cornering power and catch-ability.
***** Interesting, well I was told by the pros at the circuit to dial up the stiffness to try and reduce bump-oversteer and it has worked. However, I also increased the front stiffness much more than the rear to induce understeer and I think that is what has made the biggest difference. I will try dialing down all four corners keeping the same ratio and see if it improves my times. Cheers.
I hear your point on not wanting to counter steer and being afraid of spinning harder in other direction. Can't be scaried stay on the gas maybe even a little more and counter steer over. A slight drift. So it's a little smoother and scary as Fuck lol. Once you drop that pedal and you counter steer to much your spinning out like crazy.
yeah man counter steer is a big thing. if you were hitting wheel lock that would be different but that will save you alot if you countersteer into the oversteer and then straighten out
I know it looks slow and manageable, but the truth is you are moving at some speed. When a spin starts, yes you can counter steer but it's sometimes better to spin into the inside of a corner. You can see in the video it's easy to over correct and spin to the outside of the turn. The result is your moving faster and are sideways when you leave the track on the outside. They always tell us to keep straight when leaving the track to prevent a possible role or other damage to the cars.
You mean this is what happens when you go off track completely sideways. It really has nothing to do with countersteering. If you go off the track sideways and catch on something you are going to flip. He obviously went of the track and went into a muddy/soft dirt area where the car just dug in and flipped.
1998NeonRT Correct. But, you are missing the point... if you try to countersteer every bump oversteer, even the ones that are very far gone, you will eventually pull a tank-slapper and leave the track sideways with all sorts of scary physics in play... aka the first wreck in this video.
My first thought was "why are you giving up so early" but then I read below about the countersteer. I'm pretty useless behind the wheel but I tend to reach full lock before I give up. If it does come back the other way then letting go of the wheel and grabbing it when you're heading in the right direction works most of the time. Those little '5s/miatas practically drive themselves :-)
I agree that it appears that we have given up early on trying to countersteer, however, what you are not taking into consideration is the feel... The vast majority of these spins are due to what is called "bump-oversteer" where a bump causes the car to start to rotate while it is at the apex of the "jump." This rotation is quite obvious when you are sitting in the car but difficult to judge when watching the film... so, the times where it appears we have "given up", in actuality, we have, because we know the spin is not recoverable based on feel and trying to counter steer will make for a more violent spin in opposite direction or cause odd tire angles when going off track sideways...
I take your point, and it does look bumpy as hell, which can't make it easy, but in that moment where it is coming back headed for a spin in the other direction there is a window of opportunity to recover it. You've gone for the safe option ditching in a semi-controlled manner rather than attempting to get full control by risking a tank slapper. That's what I mean about giving up early, I'd be having a go at bringing it back under control even if it meant risking a more violent spin. With a bit of practice you'd be catching it more and more. Giving up before you've reached full lock is something the french would do! You seem to do alright though, it looks like great fun!
benpowersification Great points. I have been moved by your discussion to attempt this full lock, never give up, American racing attitude! Get ready for tank slappers to pop up on the next couple months... they are quite scary but I suspect that you are right that it is best to not be French. Cheers.
idamon Its always better to avoid being any more French than is absolutely necessary ;-) And you'll find a few spins on my own channel, keyboard warriors seem to think to be a good driver you just get in a car and go, rather than recognising that in order to be good at anything you need to put the practice in...
I don't understand why you're trying to accelerate in the corners, thats why your car is probably oversteering and you have to counter-steer. In my opinion and other basic racing facts, let off the throttle when you turn in and when and if you get near the clipping point, get back on the throttle. Especially when youre going downhill from the crest. You'll be gaining momentum from gravity anyways. Gain time at some corners and lose it somewhere else. It doesn't have to be pedal to the metal everytime. Once that vtec kicks in you're off anyways, why do you need to counter-steer/under-steer? Shouldn't be a problem ESPECIALLY with an S2K. It doesn't make sense that you lose control here and there. The chassis is very well balanced at 50/50 weight distribution and enough power and torque to conquer nearly every corner. I'm not saying you're terrible, I just feel like you need a lot more practice.
I agree with you that the physics make the most sense to let off the pedal during the point of the turn with the maximum lateral g's.... that way the car is perfectly balanced 50/50 at the apex... however, that is not the advice I am given from track "experts" and from reading "racing" books. "Experts" will recommend trail braking into the majority of turns and transitioning from deceleration to acceleration just before the max lateral g-spot of the turn.... that way you are accelerating and there is some weight on the back tires giving them more grip during the toughest part of the turn...
I've been a right seater in the canyons. Probably, the most scariest and exhilarating feel in the world. But of course that is different from a circuit. But from what I'm seeing from your pov. When you're coming over a crest it just makes a huge difference. Any rwd oversteers which is what they do. And fwd understeers. That's basic. It doesn't matter what "experts" say. It's when you're actually driving is when it counts. Trail braking over a crest will make your back end loose because the rear end of the car lifts and your tires will lose traction. Yes, I haven't driven the s2k but sitting in the passenger side, I feel pretty much everything the driver feels.
***** I think we are trying to say the same things... trail brake into the corner, transition to acceleration before the apex, and the best way to rotate the back end out is to slow down during a turn?
Wait...no. not the best way is to slow down in the turn. The guy who runs the touge in the cantons who gave me a ride along pointed out that you don't trail brake to get the back end lose. If you want to purposely get the back end lose, you just flick, accelerate, and counter-steer.
Watch your hands 10 and 12 on the wheel, let the wheel slide through and don't hold on so tightly, the car needs to move and you need to move with it. The S2K needs an alignment and less air pressure in the rear by the looks of it too. It is good to spin, helps you learn the car so keep it up but be safe about it by working up to speed, I think you are overdriving the cars tires with too much entry speed. Get a full face helmet while you are at it.
You should to a skidpad a try to control the car when oversteering. Its ok to just have fun on a track but you have a s2000 and that car is no forgiveness queen as a mx5, you really should try to control it because if you had a wall or other cars nearby you could't just let it go as you did. I am no race driver but i would be frightened to not being able to recover a car in such conditions, nor trying. Trust me, go to a skid pad and learn how to do it, you will be gratefull later.
idamon first of all you re hands are not on the correct position, especially on those areas where you know the car is more prone to be unstable, second, when there are bumps you should mantain the care straight and not touch the steering wheel, and if the are bumps inside a corner you should loose speed before and accelerate mildly throught the bump
idamon get the seat a bit more forward and always drive with you re hands 9:15, during cornering do not let go the steering wheel, shifting only before or after cornering, break before.corner and always corner with your foot on throttle, that way the weight is ttansfered to the rear wheels which have the grip
El terreno quedo perfectamente labrado... hehehe La próxima vez mejor un tractor... Hay que reconocer que el circuito es muy malo, parece una montaña rusa, lleno de baches.
