Yes, relationships that create relationships ad infinitum that have the consequence called food and nutrition. This definitely jolts how economic relationship is imagined that is currently strangled by the positive feedback looping hegemonic accounting tools. These tools propagate a dysfunctional staircase of exploitative wealth relationships where the higher level steps become exponentially higher and higher. Relationship implies equity and respect. Clearly current accounting tools fail abysmally to achieve this because these are tools imagined and designed by humans who are failing to relate equitably and respectfully in an ecological trans-context. Thanks for the wonderful presentation.
.. actually.. trowing a spear was not that important, to heard nuts, roots and other plants was the most important . 80 % of the nutrician in the ancient times - like stone age was plants . Gatherers was much more impotant than hunters..... but its a male world still
The thing I find striking about Daniel, Nora, and people who seem to mix in their circles is that when they talk about the state we are in, they can talk about it without the need to blame people. This is so valuable because people will be so much more willing to listen and get on board if we can follow these awesome examples.
Väldigt intressnat angående att vara del av naturen! Jag kommer från permakultur-världen - följer folk som driver upp tusentals nötträd på en parkering, i klimat liknande vårt - och exponeras hela tiden för att saker "fungerar" som de flesta skulle utgå ifrån är flum. Tror Jonna o jag delar tanken att en plötslig kollektiv förmåga att se helheter skulle vända helt upp o ned på världen, på bästa möjliga sätt. Det behövs kanske inte i hela världen - i t ex Indien kanske man behöver kunna se annat än helheter - men västvärlden är ju helt fast i navelskådandet. Och Bornemark (vet inte om hon vill at tfolk kallar henne Jonna i kommentarsfält?) är ju grymt bra på att formulera just det där. T ex att cartesianerna, som överdrev Descartes världsbild, har tagit över helt och omvandlat allt till nåt slags rutsystem, o sen offras alla nyanser som finns därute därför att allt man "inte hinner med" därför att allt ska klämmas in i rutsystemet, snarare än att man använder ett annat system för att kartlägga en värld som ju egentligen - om vi pratar om naturen - inte ens har några räta vinklar. Och hon tog även upp en intressant poäng från hennes favorit, Cusanus, som pratade om "runda idéer"; att runda idéer inte går att få in i en fyrkantig världsbild - för när man börjar rita hörn så blir det alltid delar över runtomkring. Grymt effektivt exempel som borde användas emot allt vad New public management heter... Ivf... Angående det här med synen på oss och naturen: Tror bron som behöver byggas där är att gå ifrån "antingen eller" - alltså grundsynen att människan bara kan skada och att det bästa vi kan göra, för naturen, är att låta den vara. Möjligtvis är det bättre för naturen men den grundsynen är hemsk för människan. Jag tror - både av egna erfarenheter och av att ha lyssnat på Jonna, alla möjliga regenerativa odlare, permakultur-personer, buddhister och alla möjliga - att vi måste se alltihop som ett och samma till 100%. Självklart är vi inte samma "kropp" men världen har dragit extremt långt åt fragmentariseringshållet nu så det vore nog på sin plats med helhetstänk ett tag. Vi har lärt oss se odling som exploatering samtidigt som de som faktiskt behandlar naturen, både växter och djur, på humana sätt inte ens får höras (oavsett om det är urbefolkningar eller "moderna" människor som följer naturen i sina odlingar; t ex finns en boskapsskötare som påstår att djuren på hans farm far bättre än i naturen därför att processen är så effektiv - de vet inte om vad som kommer hända, ingen stress eller ångest finns där, allt går snabbt och under hela deras liv innan dess fick de leva ut sina naturliga instinkter ihop med andra som också fick må bra). Det finns såna som forskar på vad som händer under marken men de kommer sällan till tals. T ex forskning på hur mikrolivet hämtar mineraler - bokstavligen ur sten - och byter det mot växternas glukos, nätverk av mykorrhiza där en enda organism sträcker sig 1 kilometer och hämtar och skickar näring, från och till andra organismer, i ständiga utbyten. Det finns så, mycket som händer, eller kan hända, under marken - även i våra åkrar - men som sällan hinner göra det därför att vi regelbundet, slentrianmässigt, plöjer ihjäl livet som finns där och får resten att fly därifrån. Går man ut på en åker så hör man inget surr, hittar inga maskar och det är alltid fel regnmängd (därför att jorden är urholkad på livet som omvandlar jorden till en svamp - "dålig" jord kan inte ta emot 1mm vatten på några timmar medan bra jord tar emot 1 decimeter på den tiden). All jord är näringsrik men inte all jord har mikrolivet som omvandlar det till något växterna kan använda. "Just in time"-tänket - som började hos Toyota och av nån anledning verkade rimligt att använda på andra människor - finns även inom jordbruket, och där är allt något att använda, ha sönder, och helheter funderar man inte ens över. Något man funderar ännu mindre över är vad naturen redan gör, för hybrisen hos vissa har gjort att vi utgår ifrån att vi, som är produkten av en miljard år av evolution, vet bättre än naturen som skapat oss... Våra produkter, skapade i labb, är mer finetuned - för användning i naturen - än det som skapats av ständig samverkan och anpassning i naturen. kanske framförallt kan vi inte ens tänka tanken att naturen handlar mer om samarbete än om en konstant kamp, trots att det är exakt vad forskningen säger gång på gång. För att ta ett sista exempel från odlingsvärlden: En soil scientist kallad Jonathan Lundgren (amerikan) kom fram till att det går 1300 hjälpsamma smådjursarter på 1 skadlig, i odlingarna. Vi har tänkt så snett att det inte är klokt...
Daniel is so smart, his response to Nora at 1:05:06 is spot on. I was thinking that same thing the whole time she was reminiscing about how amazing it was to have her dad feel out the household situation to determine who gets to wash the dishes. These things work on small scale and sometimes they don't even work on a small scale at all - just because you think you figured out who the best person would be to wash dishes that night doesn't mean that person would agree. Arguments would ensue, people would be hurt and defensive and some lazy, so that's why you establish rules outside of "feelings" and personal assessments, so that no one would feel singled out or could argue based on biases or emotion. Wednesday is Tommy's day. Period. We need rules like that in society especially the work place. Otherwise it would be chaos. She's too idealistic.
OK, endast 14 minuter in i samtalet, men… Det jag hör, är att en mängd frågor inte ställs, vi KAN kanske inte efter 40 år med ökad konformitet i samhället. Tänker då på hur vi nu ”tänker”, men samtidigt nedvärderar känslor, kontext, intuition, helhet och att balansen mellan vad vi har gemensamt drunknar i hyperfokuserad individualisering. Denna ideala kundrelationen är omöjlig när ägandeskapet hos ”säljaren” ligger i ett nätverk av bolag i internationella koncern. Det gäller givetvis även den anställda som möter ”kunden”. ”Butiken på hörnet” är inte bara historia, men innebär också att en ”lokal” kund aldrig möter någon som har rejäl makt i en franchisetagande butik. Till sist, det vi kallar ”växt” sker i företag, makroekonomiskt eller i ägande av kapital och tillgångar. Resurser som krävs begränsas av ekologin, medan ”förbrukaren” sitter med räkningen och samvetet från att ”förbruka”. Då är inte ”ekonomin” ärlig. Om ägande och ”förbrukande” hållas lagmässigt separat i ökande grad, hur skall en löntagande person inte hamna i en komplex kognitiv dissonans? Jag tänker att roten till ”the meaning crisis” ligger i detta. Detaljer och exempel fins i så många av NAVs tidigare videos. Ägandeskap har andra värden än kapital, och ger mening utöver lön som får oss löpa ständigt fortare…😊👍
The answer to these questions and the problem of a.i. is the Christ (not the church). That Christ is within us all and when we turn to that very real presence of Christ, that is here now, sitting in me and sitting in you ,we will have the will to move into the future with confidence and fulfilment of our true potential. Getting back to nature is getting back to the nature of Christ.
It's wonderful to see Daniel's live appearances in Sweden. He brings his soul and urgency with him. His at-home and podcast RU-vids are wonderful, but getting him and Nate to Norrsken and NAV provided a new context for them both to stretch and adapt. Thank you Nora!
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What Nate says about feeling a sense of hope because he is working with other people who care about these things… That is what I am missing in my life and that is what I desperately long for.
If Daniel can tap into his beast, and deliver these ways, into a warrior society, into BJJ and UFC young men, providing purpose and meaning, with this demographic, that will largely be seen as worthless , self involved crowd I expect. There is the tribal roots. There is the fire, that Gangis, and Alexander mobilized. You have the heart of the elder wisdom, crone, care, fem, in the bag. Gordon Ryan....if you can win him over to the vision of warrior societies, with purpose and belonging. We all win
the only to make the rapid change they the speakers say is urgenlty needed is through manipulation, authoritanism and iron fisted, all the things they say we need to avoid and all the things we must avoid.
As the curriculum I took a journalism ethics course in college. We were taught law and dignity. We were given social dilemmas to report, but each dilemma had an equal consequence for the reporting. Have you ever read Alexander McCall Smith? The social dilemmas Mma Precious Ramotswe investigates deeply affect private people. She has to make decisions based on compassion and ethics. These tools should be held with kid gloves.
I love the interplay of the different styles of Daniel and Nora - agreeing on the problems and adding nuances to eachother's thinking. So much here. particularly at 1hr and 6 minutes, Daniel says, "It seems like there's this overwhelming complexity: there's 50 million chemicals in the database of the American Chemical Society and to try to think about what all the endocrine-disrupting and neurotoxic and carcinogenic effects of all of them plus the combinatorial effects of them and Etc are…except you don't actually have to do that. The Simplicity of ‘don't make systems that have to grow forever’ that's dumb ‘Don't make systems that extract resources faster than they can replenish themselves or that create pollution’ that's dumb, like the the actual Logics of thriving systems are pretty simple"
We as a species are well into the era of the need for "big mind, big heart, open body" and the demand for diving deep into our sense of Self and Others, our sense of Body and Biosphere, and how that all comes together in every second of our next breath is here now! Thank you Nora, Daniel, Nate and everyone for continuing to educate, challenge, and inspire!! 🧠❤🙏
Amazing. Thanks again for showing up for this for a second year. I am wondering if the hive mind can help find references/resources as to the 100 million indigenous folks who perished during the last 530 years that Europeans entered the southern and northern Americas. I keep seeing research indicate 50-60million, so would love to see other data points to share in my communities. Thank you Daniel, Norah, and Nate. ❤
As detailed in American Philosophy: From Wounded Knee to the Present (2015), It is also apparent that the shared history of the hemisphere is one which is framed by the dual tragedies of genocide and slavery, both of which are part of the legacy of the European invasions of the past 500 years. Indigenous people both north and south were displaced, died of disease, and were killed by Europeans through slavery, rape, and war. In 1491, about 145 million people lived in the western hemisphere. By 1691, the population of indigenous Americans had declined by 90-95 percent, or by around 130 million people.[40] However, pre-Columbian population figures are difficult to estimate due to the fragmentary nature of the evidence. Estimates range from 8-112 million.[41] Russel Thornton has pointed out that there were disastrous epidemics and population losses during the first half of the sixteenth century “resulting from incidental contact, or even without direct contact, as disease spread from one American Indian tribe to another.” [42] Thornton has also challenged higher Indigenous population estimates, which are based on the Malthusian assumption that “populations tend to increase to, and beyond, the limits of the food available to them at any particular level of technology."[43]
@@danielschmachtenberger6687 Thank you so very much for sharing. Tomorrow is National Truth and Reconciliation Day in Canada and this feels profoundly relevant. I write this really noticing the impact of your statement around Kissinger strategy with the heart of a ‘charitable work’ of lives. I look forward to studying Kissinger, and other deep epistemically and ontological best practices around strategy. I work in NP and pursue systems change in Canadian healthcare. I appreciate how your voice feels like many things, one glimpse being a contemporary Ivan Illich. Deep reverence for all of you
2:04:18 "If you want to know the thing that I feel hopeful about it's people with Jane Goodall's heart learning how to do Kissinger-ian stuff. Learning how to actually capture andchange the systems of power without being affected by them." I'm often thinking how to avoid the next Hitler, coming from Europe I notice examples of Orban and Erdogan with near-absolute power.
I love the honesty and observance of the craziness of our modern culture in this conversation. And perhaps most importantly at least for me, the call back to rediscovering our own and collective abundance. Beautiful music too ❤Thank you all 🙏
I'm a 28 year old from the UK. I just want to thank everyone who engages with these topics, and those of whom are on the front-line trying to do the best and most critical work of our time. I've spent the last few years, exacerbated by the Covid response, in a state of depression and fear at the potential future we have ahead of us, and the huge betrayal from our leaders in addressing the complexity of our time with any integrity or genuine love for the planet and its future. My mother had a similar period in her life during the Bosnian war, when she fearfully anticipated that the war would come to her two young boys in the future. It took over her life at the time, and to a perhaps even greater degree, this crisis has consumed my life, and all I do, since I have little else on in my life at the moment, is look for the people I can see who are genuinely trying to address the real roots of the problem with care. It's given my life a lot of meaning, but with little infrastructure to hold these ideas in my own life, I'm afraid I am drowning by the weight of it all, and am losing relationships in my life as a result. I'm devoting time now to my MA, which I hope will in the future put me in touch with meaningful work like this. Good luck to all of you. I'll now operate from the world with a certain faith that there are decent human beings trying to affect meaningful and long-term change for a more fun world, and I hope one day to be involved in whatever capacity in helping to build it.
Great session, important to stay grounded and develop your inner stillness. My big worry is the relentless advance of ultra-processed food and synthetic meat.
1:22:38...... I have waited for SO LONG for Daniel to answer that question... 1:30:40 and 1:46:52, If you have no agency in regards the complexity of what Daniel speaks to, then fundamentally understanding and developing agency around the answer to the question that was given is the way, if we could collectively do that I believe it would give rise to many of the answers we are looking for. Thank you SO much Daniel!
