Join hosts Mike Day and Bryce Dunford as they illustrate relevance and discuss ideas for understanding and applying the scriptures in your weekly study of Come, Follow Me. Mike and Bryce are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The opinions expressed on this podcast do not represent the official position of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We refer you to official church sources and the church website to clarify any doctrinal questions: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/
First, I love the channel, Second, I like the topic. However, in my mind you have a huge blind spot. I don't know any of you or what your lives have been like, but you came accross in this podcast as middle class people who have not had to really struggle in life. The tone of how you talk shows that you have no clue what it is like to really have to really struggle with the adversities of life. Many people make thier choices both good and bad based on the experiences of thier life. Imagine growing up in a home where you are completely left to your own devices, no real leadership, surrounded by people who at best tolerate you and at worst do you harm, both physically and emotionally. How would your choices be different? How would they be the same? you can't know. Even though you speak about people as being complex, you speek about their decision to sin as mostly black or white and coming from a place of knowledge rather than cercumstance or lack of knowledge of a better way. One thing I will say is that knowing joy and happiness are really in the contrasts. The further you fall the greater your rise. when you have really fallen into sin you can really experience the attonment in a way that people who have never fallen will. Understand the contrast of spending years of your life stuck behind bars for some great sin, then come out and grow in the gospel learning to feel the love of god. You cannot know what that is like. The contrasts are huge. Read Joseph Smiths account of being in prison in the Doctrine and Covenents, he gives a prety good discription of the lows of prison. Unfortunately, you have come accross as judgemental toward those who have struggles in life and make choices out of those struggles. I don't think that is your intent. Never the less that is how it comes accross to me. The good son will never in this life know the real love of the Father because he never experienced the loss of everything. it is impossible because you can't experience the good without the bad.
I can’t speak for Bryce. But I (Mike) have never met my father. I have had many struggles which I will not lay out here. Needless to say, much of what you speak of my brothers and I faced daily. When I read the BOM for the first time it changed my life. I don’t condemn you for your misplaced words, but please know that you have no idea about my life or struggles.
May I correct your comment, when you said “he’s back in your life” he never left you! You are back in his life! Children need to understand that repentance is his gift, waiting patiently for you and that he is always there!
I had a hilarious moment there at the end when we were getting a preview of the next podcast. Mike was talking about a man who wanted to be king, wasn't chosen, got upset, the gathered his followers to fight... I was thinking, "O Snap! Talking Scripture just got political (thinking he was taking about Donald Trump😂)!" When he finally referenced Lucifer it all made sense. Then again, the Book of Mormon is written for our day so it does make you wonder. In the end I'm grateful you guys focus on core doctrines, principles, and universal applications. We have enough political rhetoric in the world these days.
At the end of the Greek Septuagint of Job it states that Job is the same person as this Jobab mentioned in Genesis 36:33. Who was a descendant of Esau and ruled as a king. 5 generations from Abraham.
It seems to me that Alma 40:11-14 is talking about the time we die until we are resurrected. The righteous go to Paradise, which we often just call the Spirit World; and those who are wicked go to Spirit Prison. They remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection. Alma doesn't say or even hint of the idea that those in Spirit Prison can repent before they are resurrected but D&C 138:58 clearly states that.
I’ve listened to and read some near death experiences. The ones that went to “hell” have said that they were being dragged down, stuck in darkness. But the second they thought of God or Jesus or called out to him, he came to them and took them out of their darkness. I feel like Alma might have had a near death experience. So grateful for Alma’s example of repentance and forgiveness and the ability to do both comes from Jesus.
My friend explained it like this, it makes perfect sense to me. I do not know if it is doctrine but he has some amazing insights. One important point that I didn't finish. At Final Judgement, you will be judged based on your entire existence, which is your premortal life, mortal life and post-mortal life. Not just this life. And ultimately, you will choose to become what you want to eternally become and so you choose your kingdom based on what you love. If you love others and only care and want to do is serve others, then you've chosen to become Celestial. If you love to be good, but don't want to have to serve 24/7 like they do in the Celestial, then you have chosen to be Terrestrial and if you do not like to be good and care mainly for yourself only, then you have chosen to be Telestial. And your final judgement will not happen until you haveplateaued off eternally. Meaning , if a person is still gradually progressing and is still slowing becoming better and better, then They will not be cut short and judged yet. There is no time after death, there is only existence and everyone will be given eternities to become what they want to become. If you never stop progressing and keep becoming more and more like Christ, then you will eventually become ready to return home to the Celestial kingdom. But if a person chooses to plateau off forever as Terrestrial and you could give them eternity to progress more, but they won't, then since they have plateaued forever as Terrestrial, then they will be brought before God for their final judgement. There is no time limit! If you are choosing to change little by little, then you will eventually be good enough to go home. And if you didn't want to do what it takes to become Celestial, then you will be more happy and comfortable in one of the lower kingdoms. And you will fully want that forever.
I hear and read a lot of commentary about the Meso-American v Heartland Theories. Other than a matter of historical interest, is there a difference one or the other makes in our understanding of the BoM and the gospel?
in the YT vid "Were the Pyramids Built Before the Flood? (Masoretic Text vs. Original Hebrew)" it discusses how time was cut from the genealogies to discredit Jesus' priesthood claim. It also points at the documentary "exodus, patterns of evidence". I think it would be neat to invite the pattern of evidences guys on because, in short, they're trying to correct some of the stuff historians got wrong when first looking at Egyptian history.
I’m old enough to have seen more of a hell fire damnation narrative in the Church to now seeing way more of a teddy bear Jesus narrative and I’ll tell you it’s confusing and destructive and has darn near ruined me because of how I was treated growing up with interviews with leaders…. It’s a miracle I have the testimony I have but I’m so saddened by how many have left the Church and their testimonies because of self righteous leaders or on the contrary those that don’t understand the “justice” of God today and think they’re ok in their sins. The wrestling between Justice and mercy and its in those chapters Alma 42 24 For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved. 25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God. Also notice how Justice is in the masculine and mercy in the feminine in verse 24. I do feel our church and culture have been radically feminized and there is an absolute attack on what culture deems “toxic masculinity”… so naturally we are gonna become more of a merciful feminized church if we give into that and we have. It’s hard wired in me from days of old to have a real man who lays down the law. God is bound by what he says otherwise he ceases to be God. Anyway, it is very difficult sometimes to see the balance between these two concepts and dichotomies, or personality traits(?) of God. We see him through our leaders growing up and my experience with leadership hasn’t been the greatest. I have to hold fast to the scriptures and what God says otherwise I would’ve been done a long time ago.
As far as his question about where is that line between those who go to paradise and those who go to as it says in the book “outer darkness” or what we call spirit prison today. As far as I’m concerned the answer is right there in those verses that you read. It says and I quote “And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil-for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord” so there is the separating line, whether or not you have any part or portion of the Spirit of the Lord in you determines your state at that first judgment right after you die when you go home to that God who gave you life.
I have heard of people being subject to other spirits- usually on drugs - and bad spirits acting as “angels of light” can convince as well as anyone else that Christ isn’t a savior but an oppressor they convince people in this life all the time if you are subject to those spirits in spirit prison I imagine it would be very hard to repent and be “controlled” when you are dead and to your current knowledge still “fine” because we are on probation till judgement not till death
You guys!! You don't leave me with questions, you bring serious answers to the forefront! (into the light!). Thank you again & again, every single time! Love the deep dives into Greek/Hebrew. So much great info. 🩷🤍😊
I follow alot of come follow me podcasts. One day i was strolling through RU-vid and started listening to what I thought was a good LDS podcast. Uh..nope. it was an ex LDS which had been to the temple. He was making fun of certain sacred things we promised not to reveal. He revealed everything. What about those people letting people know what happens in temple?
I really enjoy seeing both of you on the video style versus the podcast where we don’t see you so I enjoy that much better but your content has been spectacular and I enjoy it abundantly
Great discussion! I've long had an appreciation for the idea of a "plan of restoration" that will restore all things to their proper order. I find this encouraging because I trust the wisdom of my God to order all things in a way that suits us all best.
My first time watching your channel, although I have seen you on Stick of Joseph and Ward Radio. This was an excellent commentary! Kudos to you and your guests!
Mike, may I suggest 2 videos I found very interesting in regards to a time to repent, and possibility of multiple probations and/or progression from one Kingdom to another, which would tie into the idea of, if god has all eternity to reclaim his children, then we may continue to progress through the Kingdoms, IF WE CHOOSE TO (as the whole point is to be happy). Just some really interesting concepts. Won't let me put the links so search for these. 1. The Last Dispensation - Can we Graduate Between Kingdoms? 2. Zion Media - To Go No More Out Very interesting and thought provoking in regards to how the Atonement can and will eventually claim everyone and bring them back the the presence of God the Father, evern if it takes forever.
Do you suppose people leave a space to heal after this life and who have experience extensive trauma. And because of the trauma they’ve had made really poor choices that could be seen as sin.
If you look at the pre-existence there came a time of reckoning. Eventual we all had to choose a side. Follow God and Jesus or follow Satan. A third of our brothers and sisters, one third of God’s own children chose to rebel and choose their own way and were cast out. So eventually there is going to be an end of our probational period. And end of repentance. We have to choose a side. Does the third of the host of heaven that chose to rebel get a chance for repentance? I think it’s unclear how much more time we technically get to repent. My own guess would be the end of the 1,000 year millennium, because according to how I see it, everyone’s temple work will be done and the time to decide will come to an end. We will have to choose to follow God or choose our level of comfort for eternity. But my guess and speculation is that after the millennium we will all have a full picture of consequences and full knowledge of whether we want to follow Christ or not. But do we really know? Better to repent now and not be one the five unprepared virgins! 😊
I love seeing young Latter-day Saints marrying young, staying true to their covenants and discussing the glorious gospel! God bless you, Jason and Kari! God bless you too, Mike! Love this podcast!
