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The Everyday Bow Hunter
The Everyday Bow Hunter
The Everyday Bow Hunter
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My name is Mike Manley, retired Army Green Beret, owner of ArcheryHunting.com, and passionate bow hunter; dedicated to sharing my knowledge to help you become a more proficient and successful bow hunter.

I hunt in hill country and the mountains of north-central Pennsylvania and travel to other states for archery hunting each year. The areas I hunt are in low deer density areas where I have to go the extra mile with everything I do to be successful and I think you'll see that in this channel.

This channel is a resource for you to learn from my Special OPS military experience and see how I apply it to bow hunting. I will show you everything I know. I will be your resource for bow hunting basics, advanced tactics, and detailed gear recommendations and reviews.

Join me on this journey now! SUBSCRIBE and hit the notification bell icon to stay updated with the latest videos and become a part of my mobile strategic bow hunting family.
Комментарии
@musicalcompanion5890
@musicalcompanion5890 День назад
I'm relocating to Amarillo Texas. Any locations that are good for Hunting that you are aware of? im sure i can meet the locals, but all the recon i can do is always helpful. thanks for your videos!
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter День назад
Dan and I have only hunted in Texas once, so we don't have any real experience there. Maybe someone else will see your comment here and offer up some advice. Thanks! We appreciate you watching!
@REDNECKROOTS
@REDNECKROOTS День назад
Deer see white and blue best Sitka has way too much white in there camo. Deer can see that white . Mossyoak country DNA. Works great
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter День назад
@@REDNECKROOTS yes they do. That being said, I’ve had plenty of deer look right past me wearing the Elevated II camo. I definitely don’t think it’s the best though. I think you need to wear whatever the environment you’re in dictates and that can be very different depending where you hunt. Thanks!
@joesnuffy1015
@joesnuffy1015 День назад
You say "foot", but you use your arm....
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter День назад
@@joesnuffy1015 it’s a short so I just described it. I have a full length video with a complete demonstration coming.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter День назад
@@joesnuffy1015 yes, you should use your foot so the platform gets locked in to the tree.
@RTSchriner
@RTSchriner 2 дня назад
Great video! Love the content! You guys are hands down one of my favorite hunting channels and podcasts.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 дня назад
Thanks! I appreciate it!
@DaveHershall
@DaveHershall 2 дня назад
Great stuff great channel!
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 дня назад
@@DaveHershall I appreciate it. Thanks!
@jasoneven8320
@jasoneven8320 4 дня назад
How does this compare to the Sitka stratus
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 дня назад
The Whitetail Catalyst is quieter, more durable, and more maneuverable, but not quite as warm as the Stratus. The Stratus is 100% Windproof where the WC is not. The Stratus has the micro fleece outer where the WC has the smooth softshell that I like for walking through the woods without getting caught up on stuff. My plan is to wear the WC stuff earlier in the mid season and transition to the Stratus as it gets colder and there are less obstacles in the woods. I hope that helps.
@mississippibowhunter2305
@mississippibowhunter2305 4 дня назад
If you had to choose between First Lite and Sitka, which would choose. I live and hunt in Mississippi but plan on trying to do some out of state hunts next year. Which camo do you like better and do you think would be better. Just curious what your thoughts would be
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 дня назад
That’s a tough one. But for Mississippi and tree stand hunting I would go with the Sitka Equinox Guard hoody and pants. The insect control of the system and durability of the pants give it a slight edge for southern hunting. I would use the Elevated II camo for that scenario. But, for Midwest and Northeast hunting I’d go with the First Lite and the Specter camo. The colors and temps change faster up north. The Wick hoody is an all season piece that works in the heat and as a base layer all season long. I think if you went with the new Yuma hoody (which I haven’t used yet), it might flip the script on this. Either way you can’t go wrong.
@mississippibowhunter2305
@mississippibowhunter2305 4 дня назад
@@theeverydaybowhunter Thank you sir. Appreciate you answering my question
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 дня назад
No problem. Good luck!
@markblanchette1771
@markblanchette1771 4 дня назад
Thanks for review. I have trace shirt. Pretty decent. Wish the neck piece came up higher. You clarified some questions on the trace pants. I may give them a shot. I will say, Asio makes some great early season gloves that you can utilize your phone without taking the gloves off. I wish First Lite had something like that.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 дня назад
That’s probably one of the only things I haven’t tested from Asio. The gloves. I’ll have to check them out.
@PKloc
@PKloc 5 дней назад
Absolutely love those review videos…
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 дня назад
Thanks!
@markblanchette1771
@markblanchette1771 5 дней назад
I run First Lite apparel. I wish the catalyst ran pants as well. But I absolutely love the Catalyst Foundry pants. Hands down best pants on the market. I only wish it came in Specter camo. That’s one thing that drives me nuts about First Lite. Make all your apparel in all camouflage. Check them out you’ll love them.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 5 дней назад
@@markblanchette1771 Thanks. I will have to do that. I think they are trying to fix some of the pants issues with their new 308 line. We will see. I haven’t tried them yet either.
@markblanchette1771
@markblanchette1771 5 дней назад
@@theeverydaybowhunter the Foundry line up is great. I have 2 pairs of their corrugate pants cuz I run fusion camo for Turkey. Great pants as well. But the catalyst is my favorite. I run their brown color because they don’t make it in Specter but I haven’t had issues on the ground or in a tree. The pocket placement is the best along with the full vent on the legs. I’m skeptical with the 308 pant because of pocket placement. If you end up getting a pair I’d love to see a review. Excellent video. Look forward to your content.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 5 дней назад
@@markblanchette1771thanks! I appreciate it.
@MarvinWafflehouse91
@MarvinWafflehouse91 9 дней назад
Good stuff…..speaking of the apps being thrown off with which direction you’re facing …I ran into this issue last year big time , did some research on what could cause the issue ….so I removed my magnetic phone case and turned my phone off and back on and my OnX started working again
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 9 дней назад
Good to know. Thanks!
@user-cu4gv5om3m
@user-cu4gv5om3m 12 дней назад
Great podcast! Lots of good information from Trevor. A video with visuals of the various plants and trees would be very nice.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 12 дней назад
Thanks Bob! We are up in the mountains right now!
@user-cu4gv5om3m
@user-cu4gv5om3m 11 дней назад
@theeverydaybowhunter Awesome, have a great time!
@figandcloverranch5871
@figandcloverranch5871 13 дней назад
Fishers aka “Murder Ferrets” 😂 they eat anything
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 12 дней назад
They do.
@markblanchette1771
@markblanchette1771 13 дней назад
That video with food sources with pictures or videos would awesome. Great video guys.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 13 дней назад
Thanks Mark! We will be making it!
@weekendwarrior8334
@weekendwarrior8334 17 дней назад
The Ambient is a brilliant midlayer! I absolutely love it.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 17 дней назад
It is one of my favorites.
@ngallakp62
@ngallakp62 28 дней назад
Ive seen a dude bushstalk deer wearing a superman costume
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 28 дней назад
🤣
@cypherthepro
@cypherthepro 28 дней назад
Very informative. UK hunter here, we usually wear solids however kuiu is getting very popular and i use a mix of verde and valo for here in Scotland for the different seasons.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 28 дней назад
They are both great options. Thanks!
@cypherthepro
@cypherthepro 28 дней назад
@@theeverydaybowhunter the apparel market is so different to the states. Camo for a long time was your basic military surplus. Now finally moving in the right direction. How important is camo at 200m shooting open hill, not sure but woodland stalking up to 50m, it adds seconds onto a shot getting ready
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 28 дней назад
@@cypherthepro At 200 yards I don't see it being much of an issue, but when it comes to stalking I think it's a must. Yeah here in the US the market for hunting gear and different camo types is huge.
@mccarthy86
@mccarthy86 29 дней назад
What do you think about having the base, mid and outer layer all having hoods? If you have the lightweight hoodie with the face mask, then the Ambient with its hood and maybe a jacket over that. Would you put on the hood on base and outer then leave the mid down, would it bunch up? Or leave the outer hood down, or wear all three?
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 29 дней назад
It does bunch up. That’s why I took the hood off my Stratus jacket. I don’t mind the lightweight and Ambient hoods together, but like you said, it can get to be a bunched up mess if you’re not using them in the order you layered them. That’s why I recently bought the 120 merino without a hoodie. I layer over it with the 330 with mask.
@mccarthy86
@mccarthy86 29 дней назад
@@theeverydaybowhunter Well atleast Sitka do provide lot's of options and solutions to various problems. But I do agree with you on the face mask, if either a base or mid layer has a hood, it should have the face mask too.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 29 дней назад
@@mccarthy86 definitely
@mccarthy86
@mccarthy86 Месяц назад
Nice video. I'm currently trying to get some Sitka gear for September whitetail and am unsure between Elevated 2 and Sub Alpine, if I wanted to do a mix of ground and tree stand hunting would you say one is better? Also what about mixing between them? Like Elevated head and hands, then Sub Alpine for torso and legs?
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter Месяц назад
Where are you hunting primarily?
@mccarthy86
@mccarthy86 Месяц назад
@@theeverydaybowhunter Finland, so I guess that's the equivalent to Canada.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter Месяц назад
@@mccarthy86 since I don’t know exactly what the environment is like in September, I’ll tell you what I’ve been doing. If it’s really green during September I’ve been sticking with Elevated II (Equinox Guard Hoody and Pants) for where I hunt because of how green it is then, not to mention the Insect Shield stuff. If I’m hitting more open woods on the ground I’m going Subalpine, unless it’s really green around there. Then I’m using Elevated. I am primarily a treestand or saddle hunter so I use Elevated a lot in the early season here. I hope that helps.
@mccarthy86
@mccarthy86 Месяц назад
@@theeverydaybowhunter Thanks yeah that's helpful. I was interested in the Equinox Guard stuff due to the insect repellent fabric. What are your views on mixing camo? Do you think it helps break up your shape or does it outline your body parts and tell your target your a person with legs and arms?
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter Месяц назад
@@mccarthy86 I believe you only get the full benefits of camouflage when you use it as a single system. When you mix the wrong elements you have the potential of contrasting vs camouflaging. You can definitely get away with it but it’s not the best option in my opinion.
@user-uh7mr7ve8p
@user-uh7mr7ve8p Месяц назад
I'm going to check some of hese camo patterns out. Here in the North Central Iowa swamps, I have found Mossy Oak Bottomland to be a very effective camo...not to impugn anything in this excellent video.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter Месяц назад
Bottomland is an excellent camo. A camo that is very close to that is Duck Camp’s Woodland camo. It has the same properties as Bottomland but incorporates the design elements I talked about in the video. Thanks!
@BrothaAustin
@BrothaAustin Месяц назад
Check out WTF Camo.Very different.Very cool.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter Месяц назад
Thanks! I think I saw their booth at the Great American Outdoor Show. You’re right. It is very different.
@heavyd2249
@heavyd2249 Месяц назад
I picked up the late season vest to wear over the sherpa stuff for this fall. I like having the movement in my arms. Gun season I'll use the fanatic jacket.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter Месяц назад
I tried it on at the Outdoor Show in Harrisburg, PA in February. I am definitely going to pick it up. I like having my arms free too. Haven’t tried the Fanatic yet.
@heavyd2249
@heavyd2249 Месяц назад
@@theeverydaybowhunter yeah I think the combo should work great. More versatility when the temps rise mid day. The fanatic is nice and warm but not as windproof as the Asio gear. It's also a pain to pack because it's so bulky.
@JonBonynge
@JonBonynge Месяц назад
Great cold weather fishing shirt! I have 4.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter Месяц назад
That’s a great idea. I’m going to have to get another one for that.
@markblanchette1771
@markblanchette1771 Месяц назад
These are steps that hit the nail on the head. I enjoy the pre-planning just as much as the actual hunt.I would add fitness as a #9 tip. I hunt the hills of WV and on public land your hiking in a bit. I think this is an area that gets overlooked. I like the piece about hunting the sign and not the spot.I tend to do that more than I should. Great video.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter Месяц назад
Thanks Mark. I agree. Fitness is huge. I put on a lot of miles myself and workout on a regular basis so I can be as mobile as possible.
@-lovefromnh
@-lovefromnh Месяц назад
The two pairs of Huntworth pants that I own have an abnormally long crotch that does not fit well at all. Quality is really decent for the price. I love my Sitka gear. I would say, get what you can afford. I own both.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter Месяц назад
I have the same issue with my Huntworth Durham Lightweight Pants. I don’t have that issue with the Elkins or Saskatoon pants I have. I love my Sitka gear too and agree, but for some people it’s just not feasible. 😎
@-lovefromnh
@-lovefromnh Месяц назад
@@theeverydaybowhunter I concur! If you can get a Sitka Pro account, that certainly helps. I bought most of mine through EuroOptic. That saved me a ton.
@markblanchette1771
@markblanchette1771 Месяц назад
Love your guys perspective. Keep up the good work on the videos.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter Месяц назад
Thanks Mark!
@Goresmog
@Goresmog 2 месяца назад
Good tips, ultimately just gotta spend time innawoods. When I first started working in land surveying and going hunting with my buds on the weekend I could barely tell up from down. When you're new you take one step to the left and you instantly can't recognize anything, it's scary at first haha. You get used to it and it becomes easier to mentally note landmarks and map your path and location in your head.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 месяца назад
No doubt. Thanks!
@ultimaider6138
@ultimaider6138 2 месяца назад
We need to get you a UltimAider with the pack n play to test out.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 месяца назад
I could definitely do that. You can contact me here: archeryhunting.com/contact-us/ Thanks!
@markblanchette1771
@markblanchette1771 2 месяца назад
Bought my transfer pack last year. It’s a tad long but overall very happy with it. Very well thought out pack.
@arthurcarstens
@arthurcarstens 2 месяца назад
Started using a 2 step aider on my bottom Latitude stick, along with a single step aider on each of the other 3 sticks. They are Amsteel aiders, the secret is to shorten up the step distance on the 2 step aider, lot easier to step up into it. BTW, on your first step into a multiple aider to to step deep into it thus allowing your next step to get a greater purchase on the next step. works both going up and coming down. Appreciate the video, keep it up!! PS: I am 60 years young at 250 lbs so it can be done
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 месяца назад
Thanks!
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 месяца назад
Check out the First Lite Transfer Pack and what all it can do here: firstlite.pxf.io/jrbOQP
@brodyegeberg5355
@brodyegeberg5355 2 месяца назад
looking forward to a review! very few reviews made on the 20.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 месяца назад
I’m working it!
@MacD2029
@MacD2029 2 месяца назад
Which camo do you like more?
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 месяца назад
I change the camo I am wearing depending on where I am hunting. You have to look at that first. For treestand hunting, the Elevated II is still the best. Ground hunting, especially in the fall here in PA, the subalpine is much better.
@MacD2029
@MacD2029 2 месяца назад
Would you recommend the subalpine at 40% off even with the bad camo printing?
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 месяца назад
At 40% off, if it matches the environment you are hunting in, then yes. You just don't want to contrast with your hunting environment and stand out like a sore thumb to save money.
@MacD2029
@MacD2029 2 месяца назад
@@theeverydaybowhunter I am in Michigan, so similar to Pennsylvania I would think. Are you still using them in the subalpine style?
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 месяца назад
@@MacD2029 Yes I am.
@eddyneedsahobby
@eddyneedsahobby 2 месяца назад
I'm shooting a 55lb long bow and really want a compound bow
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 2 месяца назад
A compound really expands your range and the way you hunt compared to a longbow. It takes a lot of skill to hunt with a longbow though. That’s a skill I definitely don’t have.
@Josh.Blair.7171
@Josh.Blair.7171 3 месяца назад
Can you tell me your filming setup here. Is that a canon camera and a fourth arrow arm.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 3 месяца назад
Yes. I’m using a Canon Vixia HF G50 camera and was using a Fourth Arrow camera arm, but am now using a Lone Wolf ultralight camera arm instead. I carry a GoPro and a Tactacam Camera too.
@markblanchette1771
@markblanchette1771 3 месяца назад
Asio is definitely making some head way. Their customer service is top notch. I’m slowly becoming a fan of their products.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 3 месяца назад
I’ve been lucky to try most of their lineup and have become a fan. The attention to detail is fantastic and everything I’ve tested has been great. Just like I said in the video, 2 years ago I had never even heard of them. I got to meet Joe Miles in February and he is a real down to earth guy.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 3 месяца назад
See the full breakdown video here: Sitka Stratus vs Huntworth Elkins (Are They The SAME?) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cVuRSQMkt7Y.html
@markblanchette1771
@markblanchette1771 3 месяца назад
I wonder if they a mushroom stash that they were checking or something. Very weird situation at the end of the video. Great video guys.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 3 месяца назад
Thanks. I want to go back out there and look around the area. You never know what they decided to do after I left. Especially with what I said. Plus, I don’t know if the Game Commission went out there or not. It will be interesting to see.
@jmyers1977jm
@jmyers1977jm 3 месяца назад
What kind of warranty does Sikta have? What kind of warranty does Huntworth have?
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 3 месяца назад
Sitka has a lifetime warranty and Huntworth has a 1 year warranty. Both cover if something happens to the garment that is related to the workmanship of the product. Seams rip, zippers break, etc.
@mr.gtmsworld2494
@mr.gtmsworld2494 3 месяца назад
Wow! Wish I had seen this before purchasing the stratus jacket.
@danielzeamer3343
@danielzeamer3343 3 месяца назад
Awesome review!
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 3 месяца назад
Thanks Dan! You obviously remember the day when I discovered this up at camp. It is crazy how close the two are.
@danielzeamer3343
@danielzeamer3343 3 месяца назад
@theeverydaybowhunter it was the same day I fell in love with Huntworth and their price point in comparison. I have become a big fan...and I have my fair share of Sitka gear...that is saying something
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 3 месяца назад
@@danielzeamer3343 yes it does.
@reflection8578
@reflection8578 3 месяца назад
It’s been a long time since I shot my bow. How can I figure out my current bows draw length?
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 3 месяца назад
If you have a compound bow and do not know what the current draw length is set to, remember that the draw length on a bow is measured from the nocking point on the string to the throat of the grip (the deepest part of the grip) plus 1.75 inches when at full draw. In addition, some bows have settings displayed on the bow’s cams. This is sometimes displayed in single digits and may vary from bow to bow. That should get you close.
@judyjud889
@judyjud889 4 месяца назад
What about the time he was walking up the mountain just before dusk and out of nowhere a red squirrel hits him square in the face! Lol! Only my bro!
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 3 месяца назад
One of a kind!
@sinepari9160
@sinepari9160 4 месяца назад
I live outdoors in an area that can get below 10 degrees (north Colorado) but if I was chasing whitetails/ducks in the south I would have this item and a waterproof jacket.. thats it.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 месяца назад
That would work
@officialppmt1
@officialppmt1 4 месяца назад
Can't blame the Beavers lol, I'd be mad too if someone dropped a piss bottle on my home!
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 месяца назад
Absolutely lol!
@SICBOI808
@SICBOI808 4 месяца назад
😂
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 месяца назад
I’m not sure he knew it was a beaver dam at first when he poured out his bottle. He said he was shocked when he saw the beaver and realized what he was standing on lol. See the full story here: EP. 17: A Bow Hunter, a Piss Bottle, and a Beaver ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rg2eXn4fE4M.html
@TheCollapse410
@TheCollapse410 4 месяца назад
Lol ummmm kinda hard to not realize it's a beaver dam. But I'm sure they go in it to so it's what ever lol.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 месяца назад
You have to know our Dad. He can be oblivious sometimes lol.
@judyjud889
@judyjud889 4 месяца назад
Only your dad 😂
@joshlasure3384
@joshlasure3384 4 месяца назад
Which do you prefer ? Sitka stratus or huntworth ? I have a lot of pieces of First Lite n Sitka. Been debating the heat boost vest n grayling hoody
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 месяца назад
The Saskatoon Vest and Grayling hoody is a great combo. I have the Shelton hoody and use them together. The Stratus has better overall quality and design, but I don’t think the Stratus is worth $309 when compared to the Saskatoon’s price. That being said, the one thing I didn’t mention in the review here was that the Huntworth Elkins Jacket and Vest are almost identical to the Stratus. I’m going to do a video about it sometime soon. Like I said in the video, the Saskatoon is warmer and has the same features as the Stratus minus the tapered fit and quieter zippers.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 месяца назад
As to which I prefer, if temps are in the 40s and 50s, the Stratus is better suited because it’s not as warm as the Saskatoon. You’ll sweat to death using the Saskatoon stuff during that time. Once it’s colder in the mid season, Huntworth all the way. I actually liked the Vest and Hoody from Huntworth as a better option in a lot of situations where the temps were reasonable.
@stevew3718
@stevew3718 4 месяца назад
Nice review , I am on the fence with the pants and the bibs. I love the versatility of bibs, but my thoughts are, if I get the pants, I could always layer with merino bottoms, and when the temps dip lower, I would put on my fanatic bibs on top of the pants. Where as if I had the stratus bibs, it may be a little more awkward putting the fanatic bibs over the stratus bibs. As for the stratus jacket, when the temperature drops, a merino base layer with the fanatic hoody and a heated vest under the Stratus jacket you are golden.
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 месяца назад
With that setup, I agree the pants would be good versus the bibs. The only thing you are missing is the ability to dump heat as the pants don't have zip vents. Thanks!
@732outdoors
@732outdoors 4 месяца назад
What's the Distance between steeps on your aiders?
@theeverydaybowhunter
@theeverydaybowhunter 4 месяца назад
I think it is 17 inches on the tubular nylon aider and 20 inches on the amsteel.