Patrick Durham serves as the Captain and Training Officer at Station 4 within the Troy Fire Department in Michigan. Additionally, Patrick is a skilled mechanical engineer, formerly engaged in cutting-edge automotive industry projects. Notably, he has been involved in designing innovative multi-material battery structures for electric vehicles. Drawing from over 15 years of combined experience as a firefighter and engineer, Patrick has developed specialized training courses for firefighters, as well as RU-vid content, focusing on various technical aspects, including the specific challenges associated with responding to incidents involving electric vehicles. Durham is a member of the Technical Panel for Fire Safety of Batteries and Electric Vehicles at the UL FSRI, where he contributes his expertise to advance the field of fire safety in the context of emerging battery technologies and electric vehicles.
I have talked with a few local fire fighters..... they say a traditional "fuel" fire they have the experience and is usually no problem.... one pumper unless more vehicles are involved or a fuel truck .... with an "electric car" >>>> "I am now looking for the nearest hydrant" !! Ps.... trying to put out a car fire with fire extinguisher just wastes your extinguisher for later.... you need lots of water unless the fire started literally seconds ago !! Then you might have a chance !!
There is a lot of room inside an ESS compared to an EV's battery box. It's a different dynamic. You shouldn't have a pressurized release of gas in the ESS.
After using and testing solar for over 7 years. I did find a way to make it all work. Yet. Illegal because there is no huge profits and control. Yet. I will share this. The batteries don't heat up. The batteries have to have a non-stop equal balance. Meaning. What is being taken out must also have none stop being put into them. Meaning. Done by low watts for input. Meaning. A whole home can run off of one 400-watt panel. Why the method is extremely illegal. Yet. The batteries don't get hot. Sorry I can't share exactly how to do it. I don't even use the method. It's against the laws. I just tested it. Those batteries must have non-stop energy put back into them while being used. For some reason it keeps them cool.
Ok let us get down to the nity grity and give the public some real informetioa about this type of fire. 1. Who was general contractor? 2. Who manufactured batteries? 3. Who manufactured the BMS(bettery management system)? 4. What is the power rating for each 'container'? 5. What is power rating for complete system?
If geothermal had the money invested in nuclear, solar panels, and windmills, we would be so much better off today for electric power. No need for batteries because geothermal is hot 365 days a year 24 hours a day. You just need to drill down until you get to heat and make a loop underground and steam turns the generators in a much smaller building using up much less land, than solar panels windmills and batteries sitting everywhere. And having multiple geothermal plants in each state would make power for nearly everyone. And one day geothermal could even make hydrogen for cars trucks and planes. But this will take many more years before this could ever be done on a large scale,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Yes LFP type lithium cells can get into thermal runaway but it’s very rare and 100 times easier to put out. Toxicity from combustion is slightly worse but it’s debatable due to the overall event comparison. LFP (LifeP04- lithium iron) doesn’t have high cobalt content. High cobalt containing lithium cell types form an oxidizer during combustion which still burns despite being drowned in fire retardant. Many car companies and stationary batteries(home and industrial) are switching to LFP type lithium batteries. Most newer stationary batteries now have a self contained extinguishing system and UL tested. Though they are more expensive than previous batteries they also last twice as long. People hear lithium and freak out. Emergency responders and legislators need to get educated.
Incidents like this are showing that we need more and smaller BES, not fewer and larger. The more and smaller would limit the number units that can burn after an initial container fails. And when you get lower risk of collateral fires, do you fight them in a different way? Do you come in with giant propane burners and just burn it down in a shorter time frame? Either way, there is no salvaging the BES that's burning, you are pretty much waiting for it to consume itself. If you help it along, can you reduce the toxic gasses as well as reduce the time to complete consumption of combustables?
Tesla's Megapacks have igniters inside to ensure the gasses burn. Unburned gasses and products of combustion can be a larger hazard. With that said, any smoke from a fire is hazardous, but a typical fire can be extinguished fairly quickly.
Other than lithium, have there been fires like this caused by batteries using other active metals? Sodium batteries may overtake lithium for these purposes, and so far, it has not happened with them. Og course, as their numbers increase, who knows? Maybe someone like Ralph Nader should investigate high tech batteries of all types, and identify the best, and the worst.
50% of Cali power comes from COAL in other states with JACKED UP RATES. Those LONG LINES are what is causing all the fires coming over the mountains. If they just had NORMAL local plants there would be no fires. Its all a total scam as green energy provides ZERO NET ENERGY after expenses, line loss, shut downs etc. ZERO BTW. Newsom got 10 MILLION IN CASH from PGE. LAST FREAKING YEAR! Yea, they should just have a special item on the PGE bill that lists NEWSOM ENDLESS MONEY HACK to show how much of your bill goes to brbes, kickbacks and the 50% PGE CUSTOMERS THAT DO NOT PAY ANYTHING for their power cause they vote for NEWSOME. BTW, there is not enough COPPER and other metals in the entire WORLD to go zero carbon. NEVER HAPPENING, TOTAL SCAM
I HATE the earth and hope it burns up-I pay $100 in month in Florida for electric They LOVE the earth in California and pay $800 a month FO R THE SAME THING And ITS ALL BURNING UP LOVE IS BLIND Enjoy uour virtue signaling
Wouldn't it be wonderful if we already had the infrastructure established for over 100 years that would power everything with a much more suitable, less expensive, stable , available and reliable fuel source without having to waste trillions of dollars attempting to invent something that's simply doesn't work, is unneeded, un-asked for and unwanted.
It's important [cough, cough] to remember [gasp] that battery energy storage installations [cough] are completely safe and [splutter, gasp] extensively protected and [gasp] carefully monitored to ensure [cough] that fires CANNOT happen. When the fires that cannot [gasp, wheeze] happen DO happen, the toxic clouds of [cough] chemicals released pose NO DANGER WHATSOEVER to the guy in a suit who gave the go-ahead for the [cough, splutter] installation. So.. that's all right, then. Phew, what a relief.
Remember when they told us that "green" energy - which is why these battery storage complexes exist - was all good for the environment? I'd rather live near a nuclear power plant.
What are your thoughts/concern's about EV charging in a home? My house is a townhome connected to five other units. Currently none of us have EVs. My concern is with a fire spreading to all six units. In regards to connected homes, several years ago I was working around my gas meter and hit it with a shovel. I didn't give it much thought but the following morning I noticed the smell. I called our local gas and electric company. They asked if I lived in a single detached home. I replied no. They immediately contacted West Webster Fire Department. A captain and a young recruit showed up. Their device showed a gas leak. Rochester Gas and Electric was immediately sent to evaluate and fix the leak.
I live in a room and have scooter and electric skateboard. Is there anything I can put over it so if it happens I have a chance to get out. Rooms 5 by 4 meters.
Question is not only how to avoid panic by sacrificing more ground surface, building concrete walls and by increasing distances from cities which will increase loses in energy transfer to them but more important is today who is going to pay compenstions for already made loses and who is guilty that he is supposed to pay it?
If only someone came up with some type of technology that harnesses the energy of fire and turned it into hydro electric steam to turn generators. Oh well, into the future we go marching.
Even though we are outside the shelter in place area, we were outdoors, the smell/smoke from the fire triggered a rather severe asthma attack. No one mentioned the high heat warning we were under as a possible contributing factor. Yesterday and today, we had a high of 106° with 104/103 for the next couple of days. I hope we can keep the proposed Lithium Battery farm out of Escondido.
Lithium-Ion Battery 🔋 Packs for storage or Vehicle's... will lead to Drought Situation in the State. From dousing them with water 💧... already the 2nd this year. Last one was more than 10 days... 10 days to keep other Storage Containers. Some Tesla's burn before the Vehicle's get their own license plate. . Dousing these EV'S scams will reduse water supplies. 💧
Batteries roasting on an open fire. And for a full transition to renewables, we'll need >100X more storage than we have today. If the fires per GWh continue at the current rate, we'll have at least one storage facility fire every day 20 years down the road. Would be nice to know what cell type was used there. LFP fires are far less toxic than NMC/NCA ones. Since they are having a hard time stopping the thermal runaway and it is an older battery storage system, I'm guessing these must be fire-happy cobalt-based cells.
Based on the 2017 date of installation, odds are this is an NMC fire. LFP is much less likely to catch fire (although not impossible if mistreated). If given a choice I would much rather breathe the fumes from a fire involving LFP as CO2 is much less toxic than CO and Cobalt coming from NMC fires. And sure, neither would be be better, but staying with coal, gas and nuclear does not really make sense if you want to reduce dangerous waste.
Only smoke and toxicity may be in theory decreased . . In theory because it seems today impossible to store energy in composition which is fiendly for environment firing at more than 5000 deg and capable to store energy ,.
