What was the mic and preamp for the vocals?

Man that thing sounds beautiful.

maybe just do a virtual atmos mix on headphones... using the atmos renderer or immerse studio... no consumer will ever listen on real 7.1.4 setup.. and even then they can´t tell the difference because a real 7.1.4 atmos mix doesn't exist...

There are good atmos music mixes, and not so good… on a well set up multi channel atmos home theater, in my opinion good atmos music sounds great and i prefer over stereo

Thank you for the honest assessment. I’m engaging a blues harmonica as I write this. Talking this week and then sending wave files. I’ll let you know how it came out Maybe I’ll come to you for edit, mix, and master 😁 👍👍👍

I found your tests (like the u87 test) very well made and interesting, even more when you play nice and take notes before the reveal. While one of my two favorites u87 was the expensive one, here it's quite the opposite : My favorite is F by little margin, I would be happy with anything from B to E with slight nuances (B sort of clean-ish, C sort of more distorted on the lows but in a quite pleasing way), the others I can't hear any difference. One thing for sure is I liked A a bit `less than any other contender. Thanx to loud snares, loud hi hat and loud guitarists (I love you guys though), but my ears and mind are wasted now... or maybe I'm used to plugs... BTW you 're right, some plugs boost level without any correction, I noticed that using the peq1.

This method still works! I just tried it. However once i unfreeze the tracks it crashes again. I guess there’s no way to get it back completely

Thanks ! Ordered.

Atmos on sounbar😢

Atmos seems nice for a gaming or home theater setup, but that's about it. When I hear people describe the way they mix in Atmos, it makes me think they just don't want to put in the work to make it sound good, and immersive in stereo 😂. Heard one producer say he barely balances the instruments, because you can just walk closer to whatever speaker is making the sound you want more of. Wish I remember who said that, lol.

That sounds on point man

I came here again and... what great unit and demo video man...

Is this the M7 Capsule or the K47 capsule used for the video?

7:30 This is the meat and potatoes of the whole thing.🫡💯

The "zero downtime" thing is crazy to me. This should not exist. I am going through a situation where my ilok stopped working. In waiting for a replacement and for Pace to receive the ilok that is not working, it has me in limbo. Most of my temporary licenses work, but those whose statuses are locked, you have to contact the dev (Avid as an example) to transfer the license to the replacement ilok. The point of an ilok is to mitigate piracy, which it is unsuccessful at, but very successful at hassling paying customers. So what's the point of it again? This situation makes me want to stop using every software associated with this dongle. Seriously.

I agree that Atmos is not as grand as it is being pushed. Although it does seem contrived, (trash as hell lol) I do believe it's the beginning of the evolution of the natural progression. There must be some force to the artistic components to see the possibilities. We don't have to buy into the Atmos however, things are always changing. I think it is a healthy attempt and the reason they're trying to get people on board is because they don't fully understand the capabilities of the tech they've invented.

In a relatively good atmos setup the details of the music is much greater. Somewhat closer to live music. The average listeners who listen music in mono or stereo, may get accustomed to not follow too much details and as a result, we have that thing to be unlearned. Regarding setups.. I think the current available options are suboptimal. Very difficult to find a multichannel monitoring controller. If you would like to add reference listening, even more cables. All this unnecessary circuitry at the end costs. In my current setup I have several multicore cables and unnecessary steps in the processing, despite having AVB interfaces. I use referencing with an Atmos preamp which has XLR analog outputs. That goes into a StudioLive R24 which has AVB connectivity with my main interface. Somehow the features of StudioLive R24, the programmable delays, filters and other things, makes somewhat suitable to connect also the speakers. The speakers are modest ones. The diffusion characteristic and the flat responses of JBL 305p-s I found more adequate for a modest setup. I am doing research and measurements, I have to admit that headphones can also be used for mixing in spatial audio. Except that if someone sits several hours with that in head, the perception of spatiality is fluctuating. Therefore it would be good to have chance to listen in speaker setups too. Personally I believe if immersive audio becomes more a standard, that will also change a bit also the music. Since we hear much more details, compositions with greater details will have a superiority among average compositions. That can reverse the current trend of music becoming more simplistic musically. I do believe that in the long run will improve also the musical quality of the compositions, producers having forced to know more, like more music theory to be able to compose more detailed experiences.

Someone told me he doesn’t like Pink Floyd. I couldn’t hear that without understanding why. I gently questioned him about it. After a few awkward answers I put together that he doesn’t like the lyrics of some of their songs. People like this are not going to be impressed by Atmos.

Thank you! Great video and channel. I can’t afford this voxbox. But is there a HW preamp and compressor I can track vocals with to add color that is much more affordable but crazy good, if not as good as this thing?

Just got this in tandem with the red 47. Should be good. Love this video

Bruh I am in college and my pc is at home LMAO thanks man

I think the coffee is close to the hardware. With tweaking you can get there. The software versions are just missing that umph. The sound is different. Its falling flat in a way.

Atmos for headphones was mainly designed for 3D sound from games. Atmos in games makes sense and works quite well on my astro a50x, because in the game you can walk and spin about on your axis or objects on the map. When it comes to music, atmos sucks and it doesn't make any sense. Musicians are being forced into a new format because the game industry is forcing development.

Sound demo would be great! Considering the heiserman or a redd 47 mic.

This sounds so great. So present without sounding shrill. Wish I could hear it next to the non tube version!

I invested in a bare minimum consumer Atmos setup (5.1.2), repurposing my 'old' speakers. I'd never even heard of Atmos, but I'd been holding back from experiencing 5.1 for a decade plus. When I discovered my AVR had ports for 2 more speakers, I thought I may as well get some heights as well. I am so ghetto you would laugh heartily at how I've managed to place these heights in my untreated bedroom (it looks ridiculous). So far I'm enjoying it for music and movies though. I'm also an amateur bedroom recording 'artist', I bought the Dolby Atmos renderer and figured out a way to "mix" my music on consumer grade AVR (you've gotta set it up as 7.1 to bypass the encoding process and keep all channels open for direct monitoring). I've put mix in quotation marks because obviously any notion of accuracy is completely forsaken by my ghetto setup. It's a bit like the X-files for me - "I want to believe". Just thought I would put it out there, as a budget consumer guy who would rather see more Atmos content being produced, even though the rebellion against "Big Atmos" has it's appeal too...

I think it would help if the compression was overdone a little for comparison’s sake. Just so we could hear how each one reacts with extreme setting. Great video though

Atmos is amazing when done right. Just set it up

Thanks for making this really helpful video Josh, do you know if it is the same for the Avid 192 interfaces? Am guessing it would be

Your point about headphones is spot on. I'm assuming most consumers will be listening on headphones but, of course we should NOT mix in headphones? I now have a 7.1.4 room (all focal except ceiling) but, once I took delivery my sales guy left LOL. I've had it for well over a year but, every request for a mix has been stereo. I'm waiting LMAO

So now we've devalued music... As one artist - Vince Gill - recently stated, “The devaluation of music and what it's now deemed to be worth is laughable to me. My single costs 99 cents. That's what a single cost in 1960. On my phone, I can get an app for 99 cents that makes fart noises - the same price as the thing I create and speak to the world with. Some would say the fart app is more important. It's an awkward time. Creative brains are being sorely mistreated.” Music has lost it's value as a standalone phenomena. Unless you are talking about live shows - which, I hate to put it to you, is nothing more than "background music for the human mating ritual". I've played over 1,000 shows here in D.C. with a guy (he played over 6,000) and can attest to this. It's a basic human behavior. Ever had someone ask for "Brown Eyed Girl" at a gig? Well, since they got the perceived alpha in the room (your band) to do what they said, they are now considered prime for reproduction - an alpha if you will. F'ing sad... But hey as stated earlier, music started like this... Even Pink Floyd realized this Why the Pink Floyd album exists - they got tired of people going to shows for the wrong reasons - "... the party that goes with it" See this - From the documentary "Behind the Wall" : At about 10:40 you'll see: David Gilmour - " ... I guess what has to be said is that quite a lot of the people ... come for not necessarily for the music.... elements of the show and the party that goes with it" Roger Waters - "... more and more and more that's what it's about ... place half filled with assholes all shouting and screaming... I just arrived at a point I just can't do this anymore After that you'll see Nick Mason (drummer) state: " ... Roger just felt really strongly about we'd just completely lost contact with them ... what we were doing, and what they thought we were doing, and what they thought they were coming to see was so different ... we were on completely different wavelengths..." Further on: Roger Waters - " ... famous story of spitting on somebody in Olympic Stadium scrambling up the front of the stage .... cracked at one point....spat in his face afterwards I was really depressed What have I been reduced to?" "That night, or the next night, or the next day ... idea of building a WALL across the front of the stage.... to express that sense of alienation and separation..." David Gilmour - "Obviously when someone says ... in the first half of the show we're gonna build this f'ing great wall across the front of the stage and we're gonna be behind it playing and the audience will be in front of it looking at it you sort of go ' Hang on a minute...' " Nick Mason - "... I think his initial ideas as far as I remember, that the entire show would be played from behind a wall and the audience at no time would see us..." But it's always been like that... watch an old film of Stravinsky conducting "The Firebird": During the ovation - when they shoot from the orchestra's point-of-view - you'll see quite a few members of the audience with a "... why am I standing? Should I be clapping? Doesn't my gown look beautiful?" kinda look. But if you look at Bertrand Russell's Lecture 11: “Vanity is a motive of immense potency. Anyone who has much to do with children knows how they are constantly performing some antic, “Look at me“, “Look at me“ is one of the most fundamental desires of the human heart. It can take innumerable forms, from buffoonery to the pursuit of posthumous fame. There was a Renaissance Italian princeling who was asked by the priest on his deathbed if he had anything to repent of. “Yes“, he said, “there is one thing. On one occasion I had a visit from the Emperor and the Pope simultaneously. I took them to the top of my tower to see the view, and I neglected the opportunity to throw them both down, which would have given me immortal fame“. History does not relate whether the priest gave him absolution. One of the troubles about vanity is that it grows with what it feeds on. The more you are talked about, the more you will wish to be talked about. It is scarcely possible to exaggerate the influence of vanity throughout the range of human life, from the child of three to the potentate at whose frown the world trembles. Mankind have even committed the impiety of attributing similar desires to the Deity, whom they imagine avid for continual praise.“

Well, since it deleted my post due to the links it had, here it is again with no links - and yea you're right; no one cares about sound. Actually even the music - ask Pink Floyd; it's why the wall was created. "It's over. The way it was is over. Let me explain: You have major "root-cause" issues here: One - the fulfillment of self justification and self worth of the participant. Most do not engage in things like art and music without having a need to satisfy inner ego. Just the way it is. See the discussion later in this paper with regard to the Bertrand Russell Lecture 11 mention, as well as the story of why Pink Floyd's "The Wall' was created. Two - the skewed value system of most humans, mainly due to social pressures and constantly increasing social interaction that now occurs in a myriad of ways in an almost immediate form. Three - the over stimulation that occurs due to the previously mentioned increase in social interaction that can lend itself to satisfying the inner ego mentioned in the first statement and does so in a more immediate manner. Nowadays with music, no one cares. Not unless they're force fed it. And it doesn't satiate the need for humans of self justification. At least not anymore... Look at what music evolved from - humans using rhythmic patterns to: - get the mating ritual going - appease the gods so that the crops would grow - tell the clan across the valley your coming for their crops since yours didn't grow or some other hostile reason (maybe just ego?) So one has to question where music stands. Especially in these times, where in the last few decades we went from being a species that traveled no more than 25 MPH (our Flicker Fusion Threshold is about 30 frames per second - why movies look continuous) to one that measures time in nanoseconds. All humans had - even just two decades ago - were books, magazines, movies, three network channels and a few radio stations that were locked up by major entertainment corporations; a curly corded phone they shared with mom, and maybe 5 close friends. Not much of a social system for validation of one's feelings. And those few other humans had their own issues to deal with. Back then you needed music to justify how you felt - camaraderie if you will. You needed Elvis, you needed the Stones. You needed Robert Plant to tell you it was OK for stuff to run down your leg... Now you have people that expect self justification to happen in nanoseconds via things like social media. It's as though the planet grew a nervous system but it has epilepsy - random neuron firing. And it happens at light speed. You can watch a dog defecate across the globe in near-real time. Just a bunch of noise. What we now have a species that's bombarded daily, even hourly, with sensory information; well beyond what they, or any other species, is able to evolve into -- it's a whole new world. It comes down to an overstimulated species that reacts with little sensitivity. What I call the "dead dick syndrome". Really sad. So unlike back then, you now have a larger social circle - so you can communicate and validate what you feel with your zillion TicToc, Facecrak, or Snapcrack friends. You can actively (not passively like before) use a technologically-driven entertainment media to instantly gratify and satiate any emotions, feelings, and self-worth. Esp. with things like participatory media such as video games. Now you're the star. As to music - well, now anyone can be a star. The access to tools for creating professional media content is within the common person's reach. And the ability to widely distribute it at zero cost is now available to the masses. But unlike in the past, there's no filter to limit the amount of music presented to the world. This resulted in the noise floor of what's available increasing exponentially. The major labels figured this out after freaking about Napster. They realized that they could regain their control over the market since only they would have the financial mass to get over that noise floor - a noise floor created by all this now-accessible music. And they utilize the same methods they did way back when - using preteens that mommy and daddy control access to what they see and hear.. Add to that their manipulation of the industry with things like the MMA... Culminated with one guy - Peter Frampton. The reason the Music Modernization Act - also known as the Orin Hatch act (HR1551) exists. And screwed every independent artist out there. It reinstated the way it was before the Internet. The MLC is an ineffective method that now uses a "blanket license" for mechanicals. - similar to what the PRO's (Performing Rights Organizations like ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, and others) did for way back in the day for performing rights. Only the top people get paid. F'ing lovely. the Internet came along and for a very short while leveled the playing field. No longer restricted to mass exploitation by major labels locking up the rack jobbers, one-stops, and radio promo, the indies actually had a chance. But due to things like cheap DAWs (Digital Audio Workstations) and zero capital investment in distribution, the "noise level" increased - with over 140,000 releases a year. So the consumer - already stretched as to their "entertainment dollar" with competing things like video games and social media - was now ripe for a system similar to what was back in the day - companies with "financial mass" could pop above the noise floor. But there was still this burden that the streaming services had. One that was caused by the requirement that streams - like digital downloads - be treated as a "mechanical royalty" where every stream had to be accounted for. Mechanical royalties came about during the era of player pianos. The rolls they used mechanically reproduced music. Music publishers differentiated these sales as "Mechanical Royalties" to distinguish that income from that of sheet music for public performance (the gist of the "performance royalty" that also gages things like radio/air play, juke boxes, etc... ). Unlike the "blanket license" system that radio other suppliers of music enjoyed via the PRO's... one where they didn't have to account for each and every play. So then good ol' Peter tells Sen. Orin Hatch (himself a Christian recording artist) that he only got $1500 for "Baby I Love Your way" from the streaming services. Reason? RU-vid, Spotify, and other streaming services said that since the have to account for each and every stream, the accounting overhead made it so difficult and such a financial burden that they could not afford to pay what was deserved. EVEN THOUGH in this day and age, accounting for plays is a all computerized. So that - along with strong lobbying by the major entertainment companies and the associated organizations - enacted the Orin Hatch Act - called the Music Modernization Act (MMA). HR 1551. It established a "blanket license" - just like radio had with PRO's - and now only have to pay a one time annual fee. The problem? Just as with PRO's - only the top rated performers get paid. What a bunch of shit. This basically restored the grip that the labels previously had back in the days of albums, tape, CD's... And don't take my word for it - hear Quincy Jones' ( Michael Jackson's producer) lawyer talk about it in Billboard Magazine: How the Music Modernization Act Takes Royalties From DIY Songwriters and Gives Them to the Major Publishers

blaaah blaaah blaaaa!!! Why no sound demos?

What's crazy is that videos on RU-vid somehow encode spatial audio within a stereo mix on RU-vid. Listen to the demos on YT with good headphones, it works great. So surely we could use the Atmos VST plugin and then mix it back down to stereo like those videos?

i feel it's main purpose is tracking the vocal right off the bat, add that first then plugins later. but def track with it for sure, you want the most compressed sound from the gate, that sounds natural of course.

The figure 8 on the greenback speaker sounds incredible. Very smooth, which is nearly an impossible characteristic of a greenback lol.

i agree that binaural-rendered-atmos mixes just suck, and for headphones i too just dont think its gonna be the future, however for the physical speaker setups and the soundbars and the audio projecting macs and all that i do think its the coolest shit! but ur so very right about how nobody can afford any end of the transaction, we cant afford the prober speaker setups, and the artist cant afford what we need to charge to make that back, and i have an ethical problem with, i wanna do a simpler like 5.1.2 setup and make some "cheaper" "less accurate" mixes thats cheaper on the artists end too, but then the other atmos mixers who wanna charge the doubble that i would, then i start inflating prices, cuz as u point out, ppl wont be able to hear the difference from my mix to the double priced ones, and then i would inflate my collegues paychecks heavily, and i just dont know what i should do then ._.

We went through something similar decades ago. Anyone remember quadraphonic? Atmos music will soon be forgotten too. Home theater - sure. Music - no thanks.

Thanks a lot from Taiwan

Atmos shines when played on a 7.1 system. It never sounds right on headphones.

Most people is def, I just got a vizio 5.1.4 dolby atmos, sounds great already saving for klipsch 5.1.4 cinema reference, 500 bucks and the reviever just 200 dls, is not that expensive for an entry level set up.

Apple socks, for me atmos is more for a movie experience and maybe some songs tha tha lots of arrangements benefit from it, I loved the triller dolby atmos mix, but mostly the gain is at the movies.

Hi, A question: I have bought an SSL interface that includes a free package of plugins, which I have to install and license. The thing is that the plugin package contains plugins that I already have. What should I do with them? Thank you.

Thanks ❤ whats the best preamp for a U87ai ? Cheers

Atmós is the shit’’

Having the Retro 176 for many years at my studio, I bought the UAD plug some months ago, since I had quite good experiences with UAD plugins recently (e.g. their Avavlon 737, where I also have the hardware of). But that UAD 176 only seems to be a midrange THD generator, totally missing the air and sheen and detailed sonic richness of the Retro. Worked with an original UA176 hardware recently. That one made the signal also somehow a bit darker, so it might be that the UAD version is more historical correct. But I like my Retro way better, so that UAD plug is no substitute at all, sadly. At least IMHO.

tbh its really close to the cal 76 from waves its too transparent its nothing like the ua ln or the uri but its nice toy you can probably push it more than the plug ins and it stays sweet but at the end normal people can't really tell the difference

Thanks for your videos Josh. They're very much appreciated. 👍 👍

I had no idea Atmos is a thing for music. I thought is for cinema. If I'm at a concert the scene (and sound) is in front of me. It is exactly what i want to experience when listening to music at home (for which i spent some good amount of money in a stereo setup). I did watch a dvd of a live concert recording on a surround setup: music was on front and i could hear the crowd around me. That was a nice experience indeed. Otherwise i prefer studio recordings and i see no point in anything beyond stereo for that.

Great video and I appreciate the honesty...I agree: the economics of this on the producer and listener side exclude the vast majority unless atmos-capable headsets, cars, and home theatre set-ups become affordable. As of this writing (204-07-28), 50% of Americans (USA-ers) cannot afford an emergency expense beyond $1000, and then there's the whole reduction of the middle class, and the wealth gap continues to widen, all thanks to BOTH the Red and Blue (mis)leaders. So, who's going to afford all this? The 1%-ers.