I'm addicted to RU-vid, I think. I sub to like 800 channels. Out of all the people that I have listened to on here, I legit think that you are the easiest person to listen to. Have you ever done radio or anything? Your voice and the pace at which you speak is perfect.
@@Coffeeology @Coffeeology No one said they were being forced to do anything. The Mac Pro used to be priced in the home studio market, it no longer is...it's sad for those of us that enjoyed using them for so many years, that's all.
That's because they're PART of the system-on-a-chip package. It's not a separate modular part. I know that you may feel that you're being cheated of your cash, but they are more than appropriate pricing.
Pretty much what I've been hearing around. The Mac Studio seems to be the way to go this season. Hopefully it'll last at least for half of what my 2008 Mac Pro, recently retired, lasted. Good points. Thanks.
I still have my very first Mac laptop, a MacBook Pro from 2006! It still works just fine, it just got to the point where it could no longer have the OS updated of course. I'm with you, hopefully these Mac Studios are cut from the same cloth and will last for many years to come!
@@SeawellStudios Using a mid 2012 MBP. It's got 2 SSD and I gave it some love. It's the unibody one, with an i7. Very good machine for simple studio duties.
I'm stunned that it's a mirror-image of the situation when 2013 Mac Pro came out - did all the Thunderbolt ecosystem just happen? Great times for laptop users, which I'm not, but truly happy for you all.
Still loving my MacPro 2019. The expandability is phenomenal, I have put to work all the PCie slots with HDX, aja video cards, usb C hub, UAD 2, and of course Nvme drives that run grotesquely fast for audio production. And I have good luck to find last year a ridiculous price CPUs. A 24 core was on eBay for 700 dollars. Now they are pricey again but for me, then intel platform still rocks for audio.
@@SeawellStudios I still use my old 2008 Mac Pro and my sony hdv mini dv camera for what I do it’s fine at the moment. I even have the hated circular Mac Pro
@@SeawellStudios never ran pro tools but i do sometimes use avid on a g4 its the only computer i have left that can run 4.6 I have mavericks on my mac pro as its the last OS that can run iMovie 06 nativley it works on el capitan but you have to launch it from terminal or it doens't run. I still use iMovie 06 for transfering vhs. I have a sony mini dv camera that can do 1080 tape and a memory module so its super reliable.
Thank you, for this informative video about Apple's new M-2 Ultra Tower Mac Pro desktop computer. It is always great to hear from someone who operates a "real home studio". Think that the now discontinued Intel Tower Mac Pro's (with a 50 percent price drop) may also make an excellent addition to the home studio environment. Plus as you recommend an Apple M-1 or M-2 "Mac Studio" with the use of external expansion cards may be the best option (smile...smile).
I use a 2020 iMac that's specced out with 72gb of ram and, I have to say, it takes everything I chuck at it and I run alot!!! of plugins/audio tracks and soft synths. I keep 90 percent of my sounds and libraries on external ssd's and that really helps. I have always been tempted by the mac pro's (just not by the price) or the mac studio but for me, the Imac does everything I need
That's a great point! I haven't gone the iMac route in a long time because it doesn't really work with my control surface taking up so much space(D-Control). That's another great option though and I appreciate you mentioning it 👍🏼
There's literally no reason for the Mac Pro now unless you absolutely 10000% need PCI cards that wouldn't work in a Thunderbolt chassis. Otherwise the Studio and even new M2 Pro Mac Mini are perfectly capable. In fact, I've been doing all of my work on a 2021 MacBook Pro 16" with M1 Max and it handles 150+ track sessions with hundreds of plug-ins without even turning on the fans.
I agree, I’m running a maxed out intel Mac mini with a sonnet chassis for my pro tools HDX card. I wish they would make a scaled down Mac Pro with less PCIe slots though just to have it all in one.
I agree ... still using my 2012 mac pro and my 2009 macpro as server .... doubt this new one will have the longevity or upgradability as the old one or the 2019.
I definitely miss the easy upgradability of the tower Mac Pros. I opened up my 2012 Mac Pro recently to install some old Pro Tools HD cards and had forgotten how easy it was.
Hello. I have an old iMac 2011 that that was powering off, too. Finally I found a forum with an engineer who said the GPU needs replacing, so I replaced the GPU and have had no problems since. Others had suggested replacing the power supply (which I tried first) but it made no difference - but replacing the GPU has made it like new - literally no problems whatsoever since. I just thought I'd mention that incase the suggestion may be of some use in your macpro's case. Powering off has been an issue with iMacs (at least) that Apple never acknowledged so they never posted a fix for it on their forum or website.
important note - many PCIe cards no longer work with Apple Silicon Macs, so even if you spend tons of money on Sonnet Echo series, you're out of luck moving your PCIe cards from older Mac Pro to new Macs, what doesn't work: AVID HD PCIe (HDX does still work though), all Dante PCIe cards (no matter if Focusrite, Yamaha etc..), almost no network cards, no graphics cards, older Blackmagic cards....
I didn't know that, thanks so much for sharing! Thankfully I still have a 2012 Mac Pro with Pro Tools 10 and 3 Avid HD cards installed for opening older sessions. My more current rig is the sonnet chassis with a HDX card and an intel Mac Mini.
Absolutely love my Windows build, running reaper. i9 13900K 64GB DDR5, 6 TB SSD NVME 4. Incredibly fast, smoking the m2 chips measurably by a good amount (this is readily available data that is available upon a quick search for anyone who may be skeptical ) It all makes me wonder why I ever ran pro tools on Mac- there was a time where that was the only option, but thank god we have more choices now ❤️
Man I'm still scarred from using Windows around 2001 🤣 I also tried to make the switch from Pro Tools to Logic and Pro Tools to Studio One at different times and I just get way too impatient and jump back. For better or worse I think it will always be Mac/Pro Tools for me. I'm so glad you've got a system that's rockin' for you though! I've heard great things about Reaper.
@@SeawellStudios i remember- its hard to believe that was 25 or so years ago- a quarter of a century. INSANE LOL time absolutely flies by. If you’re comfortable and happy on the system then thats amazing, and no need to change. Just know that there are options out there. A lifetime Reaper License for 60 dollars is crazy. I even have a Pro Tools skin and custom configuration that I can launch at the press of a button to make it look and behave just like pro tools. It took a night of work to set the configurations- but there are lots of tutorials out there. Barely any loading screens, everything is FAST, only about 10 crashes in years and years…and best of all CPU is literally a non-issue Appreciate you man!!
$60! That's awesome! I'll remember that next time I pay $350 for the Pro Tools subscription renewal. I think I'm just too far into it to learn something new at this point so instead I'll just whine about Apple/Pro Tools periodically LOL.
The new Mac Pro will definitely appeal to professional video editors in the corporate environment, like where I work. Keep in mind also that that a Mac Pro spec'd all the way is around $12000, far cheaper than the Intel Mac Pro. But our editors are all excited about the new Mac Pro with the plethora of Thunderbolt-4 plugs and PCI-e slots - we use BlackMagic cards, for example. The proper Mac for the Studio user is.. the Mac Studio. It's a fantastic machine, especially now that is based off the M2 chip. Feeling very optimistic for Apple Pro future.
Apple has p**sed off so many former loyal clients and fans. Photographers who wanted to upgrade to a new iMac 27" are pure out of luck for the last few years. Sound artists/Musicians and filmmakers on a budget are SH*t out of luck now in terms of adding a Mac Pro. UGH!
That's interesting to hear about Photographers, I wasn't aware of that. I know the music industry has seen better days but we'd still like to have a seat at the table too. That sucks to hear it's not just us! I'm still holding out hope that the rumors of more affordable Mac Pros were just way off on the date 🤣
The problem with the Mac Studio is the inputs-- I need at least 6-8 USB input and 6 to 8 thunderbolt ports ... My trashcan runs all that now- Not interested in buying a third-party USB thdBolt HUB that doesn't even have enough. I would need two of those. If they are gonna call it studio or call it, Pro It should be fully loaded with every type of connection and enough to run everything- Raven monitors, SSL UF8s UC1. Midi keyboards Mice.. multiple thunderbolt external drives Apollos and OCTO plus for the Apollos.. ect
Is it that much better than the M2 Studios in terms of Geekbench score ? The M studios are quite cheap and powerful compared to that ! I have a M1 macbook air and it's been amazing, powerful enough for me and silent. Really great
JUST BUILD A HACKINTOSH WITH SONOMA. THATS WHAT I DID. USING A 24 CORE I9 INTEL RAPTOR CHIP. 192 GB RAM AND AN AMD 6800RT OR 6900. YOU CAN REPAIR IT. YOU CAN UPGRADE IT. GO WITH A FULL TOWER CASE.
I don’t count dollars like dollars anymore. As an 18 year old I spent way too much money on a super lightweight laptop to carry with me in 1999. It set me back 4,000 New Zealand dollars. Our currency has bounced along just fine since then, mirroring most others. If I equate that purchase to today using CPI (inflation) it would have been NZ$7k. But if I compare it to the change in value of housing and the stock market it would have been NZ$20k. I could look at that and say “damn was I stupid!”, but I’ve come to realise that actually it’s just my pay rate that hasn’t kept up. I learned about the cost of things in the late 90s. Now I take the cost of everything and divide by 5 and usually it makes sense to my 90s self again, be that takeaway food… all the way up to houses. When that happens I know it’s not actually expensive. It’s just my pay. A new baseline Mac Pro costs us US$7k or NZ$13k today. That would have cost my 90s self US$1,400 or NZ$2,600. That price for a “1999’s Mac Pro”, compared to my laptop back then, that is a steal! Technology is generally deflationary, giving you ever greater power and space for less and less dollars. But can you or I afford it as a small business? Not at our rates.
Interesting point you bring up! I would say it's not your or my pay that's the problem it's that the value of our currency has been greatly diminished. That's a whole other can of worms but rampant inflation should not be the norm and accepting our governments running at a massive deficit shouldn't be either! We can't run our businesses or our homes so carelessly and they shouldn't either with our tax dollars. It can't go on like this forever or it's not going to be a pretty landing.
@@SeawellStudios Yes I agree with you, but only if counting in dollars is important. EG how much is your house worth? Well you have to live in it so you can’t sell it because then you don’t have a house and you still need one. So 1 house is worth 1 house. The outcome of this kind of thinking is that I don’t count in money anymore. I just use that “divide by 5” trick to see if I’m getting ripped off. As for your problem, thankfully technology is deflationary. For many years now I’ve done 64 channel multitrack records via a RME MADI box using a 2015 MacBook Air. So while the name of your next computer will change, the quantity and quality of your work will likely only improve.
It's just a pricing problem. If they are willing to lower the Mac Pro's price to just +$300 - $500 from the Mac Studio, it would be a more compelling upgrade choice. No one wants to pay +$3000 more for a cheesegrater case.
but you get 2 more thunderbolts and 6 empty slots!! well worth the extra 3k!! lol..... i kid i kid. if they gona charge extra 3k, they should have doubled the number of thunderbolts vs the studio
@@Tvj_films8452I suspect they provide the PCIe slots using the PCIe lanes of the Thunderbolt controllers to start with. It’s just a giant Mac Studio with built in Thunderbolt to PCIe expansion. It even shares limited bandwidth between the cards the way a Thunderbolt PCIe expansion system would do start with so any number of Thunderbolt enclosures costing about a grand each with 3 x 8-lane PCIe slots + a Mac Studio would be better to start with apart from the very niche usage of very high bandwidth PCIe cards that would still be limited on the Mac Pro because of the bandwidth sharing.
Sadly too rare on youtube nowadays : such down to earth honesty. Too many apple related video hardly every dare saying spending 3K+ $ / £ / € isn't a serious option, even for a pro. Even rarer coming from a former apple enthusiast, that bought a bunch of computers from his favorite brand / os. I'm amazed - not in a good way - by (often young) youtubers claiming they've ordered the latest and greatest products from Cupertino, like paying around 5.000$ + was just "normal"... not even considering their real day-to-day use case for the thing they bought ! In no way am I jealous, really not ! I'm just wondering what is their background, in what kind of reality they're in. What could be the value of such amount of money in their eyes ? Oh, by the way, I love my 2012 base model Mac Mini. Still a wonderful little machine, that can run in my bedroom with almost zero noise (okay, I'm not asking much from it while I'm sleeping ! But none of my previous PC were so quiet while at idle : I had to turn them off)
I think what a lot of RU-vidrs forget is that they are making money from RU-vid...not the thing they are discussing. I've been an independent audio engineer for almost 30 years now and I will never forget what it's like to scratch and claw your way up. I've had the benefit of working in some top studios but my passion has and will continue to be making amazing art from your home studio. Thank you so much for taking the time to watch the video and for sharing your thoughts!
Correct, that’s what I said looks like the best path forward. It is still a bit sad though for those of us that have used Mac pros for years. A Mac Studio isn’t the most impressive looking studio computer.
I was disappointed as well, I have a 2019 Mac Pro with dual XDR, I was looking forward on the New Mac Pro with Apple silicon, This would’ve been my first Apple silicon Mac but it was just not worth it for the money that your paying, Your paying $3000 more just to have expansions slots, I decided my 2019 Mac Pro is going to be my last Mac Pro purchase and I’m planning to buy a Apple silicon MacBook Pro 16 inch, I had a 2008, 2010, 2013, 2019 Mac Pros just loved the Mac Pro line up after the 2019 came out I thought Apple was headed towards the right direction but in all fairness I just think Apple trying to kill off the Mac Pro or Apple just wanted to put something out there and a better Mac Pro is coming in the future but still going to cost a arm and a leg
Its time to move on, maybe away from Apple, I work with video's been using Mac's since 2001, back then Jobs use to not play with others, it was hard to get third party stuff to work on your Mac and now its worst, this prices are ridiculous. Thanks for the video.
You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I got my first Mac around 2003 so not too long after you. I'm still happily using a Macbook Pro and Mac Mini but will miss the Pros moving forward.
I'm still using my maxed out 2018 Mac Mini and it hasn't let me down once. The stock internal graphics card obviously leaves plenty to be desired, and even an eGPU doesn't solve that problem for video work. I'm definitely thinking my next studio machine will be an updated M2 Mini.
Have you seen the series of videos by Neil Parfitt from three years ago when the intel Mac Pro came out? He rebuilt his entire studio around that rack-based Mac Pro. He has considerable experience building computers and music as well. It made him uniquely qualified to perform this update. He made excellent use of a 21,000 Intel Mac Pro. He consolidated his cards and equipment from 880 pieces and 1ten cards down to six cards. But it was a carefully planned and carefully executed project with clearly defined work goals and in line with his business. I don't think he would be able to do the same kind of consolidation with the M-series chip-based mac Pro since there may be plug-in and driver issues for legacy cards that are no longer supported or orphaned.,
If you compare performance of a Mac Pro M2 Ultra which has several PCIe Gen 4 slots it’s in the same spec range as HP Z8 G5 Fury or Lenovo Threadripper P620 with RTX and priced competitively. It’s overkill for audio by today’s standards. New Mac Pro seems better suited for compositing, editing, grading 8k Raw footage and using high demanding apps like Flame, Nuke, Etc..
I agree it's denifitely a video machine at this point. I'd love to see a more affordable option with less PCIe slots introduced for us audio guys. If not though, the Mac Studio seems to be more than enough so I'm glad to have that option as well.
Yeah, it was just enough of a stretch before where you could justify it if that was your business but this has gone to a whole other realm I guess I'm not a part of 🤣
If you are on a “tight” budget and still want the equivalent (or more) than a maxed out Mac Mini, then the best choice is the base Mac Studio model with the M2 Max for 2 grands… it’s the best bang for the buck if you’re not willing to spend big bucks for a M2 Ultra. For most home studios, that will be more than enough… I run a M1 Max 64GB and it’s already great, so I can’t imagine how better the M2 Max is. Of course, if you have the money, nothing beat a Maxed out M2 Ultra Mac Studio…. That’s maybe 7 grands, but you can easily keep it for the next 7+ years to come.
Last year after the introduction of the M-1 "Mac Studio" systems, I decided just for fun to pick-up a space gray "trash can" size Mac Pro 8-core/D700/64GB/1TD SSD model for about $1,000 and paired it with my already owned Apple 27-inch Cinema LED (none thunderbolt) display and everything has been working great together (smile...smile).
@@transitengineer You were very lucky to find one with D700 GPUs; I think they're quite rare now. I do a lot of photo rendering (from large RAW files), and the D500s I have are really slowing me down. The CPU still seems fast (to me) for anything else. Good luck with it!😁
@@EElgar1857 Thank you, for replying to my post. Learned decades ago that, if you want a certain specification (for myself it was one with D-700 GPU''s and a 6-core or 8-core model) of an Apple computer system. It is best to buy them used when, their price is "dropping like a rock" and yet, there are many versions still to choose from. In 2025, this "trash can" size Mac Pro will, just become my back-up desktop and my new primary desktop will most likely be a used M-2 "mac mini" pro model with a used Apple 32-inch 6K XDR display (smile...smile).
The Mac Pro is for those creating films, large tracks in logic using dedicated PCIe audio cards, high end networking settings that require greather than 10Gb/s networking, and those who need large amounts of internal storage. The RU-vid and at home content creators should be using the Mac Studio. It's cheaper and offers similar performance.
I agree it's for film guys now, it used to feel like there was at least a little focus on us audio guys too. I've been running a professional studio for 20 years now and a Mac Pro was always the centerpiece of my studio so you'll have to excuse me if I'm having a sad moment here 🤣. I'm running Pro Tools with PCIe cards so it would be nice to still have an all in one solution that was affordable and not have to deal with an expansion PCIe chassis but it is what it is. Having PICe cards in a Pro Tools rig isn't just about running massive film scoring projects, it's about being able to track bands and live musicians with the lowest latency in the industry. Overall it's partially an indictment on the sad state of the music industry but that's a whole other can of worms.
Switched to a Ryzen 7700x machine. Windows is a pain, but the machine is a good replacement of my old cheesegrater. Performance is Mac Studio Max at less than half the price.
Thanks for sharing! I'm so hesitant to ever go down the Windows road again but it's great to hear from someone else that it's working out for. The price certainly sounds attractive!
I switched around 10 years ago, you just get so much more power for the same money with Intel & AMD. Expandability, upgradability, configurability. 13900K destroys any M1 or M2 chip pretty easily looking at the DAW Benchmarks. They just love audio those K range of processors and good value.
You are correct, this is similar to the death of an old friend. As a photographer, videographer, and musician we live in crazy times. I refuse to subscribe to Adobe to use Lightroom and Photoshop so I use a fully maxed out 2013 MacPro or 2015 iMac running Mojave OS because I still use the 32bit programs. For LogicPro X I use a maxed out 2013 MacPro running the latest using Monterey 12.6.6. I have a variety of Thunderbolt 2 NAS drives, so there are no plans to update to anything newer. Great video, thanks for sharing!
I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! I still have a 2008 Mac Pro with a Pro Tools HD Acel system installed so I can still open up old projects that used 32 bit when needed. I know change is inevitable but change definitely doesn't always equate to progress and I wish some things(particularly the subscription model) weren't the norm. Thanks for your comment!
@@SeawellStudios you are welcome. I am no longer obsessed with computer speed, and that is a huge step forward for me. Thankfully with age I can simply relax and no longer be concerned about irrelevant issues any longer!
@@Tvj_films8452 a tank is right, those things are so heavy! I get the new Mac Pro appeal for videos guys for sure but for audio guys it seems we've been priced out into the Mac Mini/Studio range.
@@SeawellStudios im in the mac mini world now. Highest i will go is studio. But I will wait for m3 or m4 to come out and people will sell their m1 studio for cheaper. Scoop it up like ice cream. Lol.
Pro audio hardware that goes beyond the typical scam specs USB interfaces that only ever offer 8 physical inputs no matter how many they claim to have if you use ADAT and another interface with them have all moved to either Thunderbolt or use a low bandwidth PCIe card or Ethernet to some external interface. Thunderbolt enclosures for DSP cards are available for much less than the difference between the Mac Studio and the Mac Pro and in rack mounted form too so the Mac Studio and for a lot of people, the basic M2 Pro Mac Mini has more than enough CPU power and connectivity. I’m sure the Mac Pro is a beast for very niche video editing purposes but it’s a waste of space and money for everyone else.
Agreed. The only thing the studio lacks is that it doesn’t look very cool to me. The smaller footprint has it’s advantages too though. It for sure has more than enough power.
If you are willing to cross over to the dark side, you can buy an insanely powerful Windows gaming computer for less than 2000 Euros. They are very good value for money and perfect for music production.
True, but thankfully I don't think we'll need anywhere near those specs. Others users are sharing here that their M1 Mac Studios are more than enough power so that's good news!
@@SeawellStudios and honestly, if anything, M2 Ultra Mac Pro is what I call too little too late. Also, apparently, M2 Ultra Mac Pro is slightly smaller than its Xeon W predecessor
Actually, Apple did a computer even better than the Mac Pro now for (home) studios… it’s called the Mac Studio. Since the Trashcan 2013, most of studios moved their PCI-E cards in external enclosure, or even went with other solutions that don’t even require any PCI-E cards anymore (like going native). For the price of a base Mac Pro, you can today get a maxed out M2 Ultra Mac Studio with 196GB RAM and 8TB SSD and it will be the perfect Mac for your studio needs. I know it because even my MBP 16’ M1 Max 64GB 8TB is already a beast for any kind of session. Even thought we have the M1 Ultra Mac Studio at the studio, I can already do anything I would need with a “regular” M1 Max… so imagine now a maxed out M2 Ultra… that’s just crazy overpowered for 99.999% of the studios (there will always be some studios that need more than 196GB RAM tho). Also, one good point for the Mac Studio, you can easily carry it everywhere and therefore take your whole studio computer with you when you’re changing locations. Way easier than carrying the old cheesgrater towers.
I agree, I mentioned the Studio is the way forward and that I use a Sonnet Chassis for my Pro Tools cards. That's a great point about being able to take your whole studio with you easily, that certainly wasn't so easy with the G5 Mac Pros, those things were heavy! Thanks for sharing your experience with the M1 Ultra, based on that it sounds like the M2 Ultra wouldn't even be necessary for most studios. Good to know!
Well - i hate to defend apple and i truly truly truly mean that……. But 15 years ago you had a computer and you had external components-limitations with storage and onboard CPU power…. Trying to run some libraries required a second computer. The computers now have gotten so sophisticated and the native CPU power so overwhelming… your computer has eliminated the need for other pieces and made workflow so convenient ….. I would imagine a $7K computer today adjusted for inflation would be similar to a $3000 computer 15 years ago and much much much more powerful
I agree with you, for having everything all in one you can't beat it! I just wish there were a slightly scaled down model with less PCIe slots as 6 is way overkill for what I do.
@@SeawellStudios I grabbed one of the cheese graders last year- and for running universal audio- waves-raid arrays, plugs and libraries- 192 files 96k- it’s hands down rock solid,,,, and unlike older Mac’s, the potential for you to outgrow it, it’s not really there like in the past- compare what you would spend on one of these Macs compared to what a plumber or an electrician would have to spend to outfit a truck to be able to work- or HVAC text spending $400 a pound on Freon…. It’s an investment, no doubt - but for stability and peace of mind- it can’t really be beat
Hot take: You can run an entire studio on an M1 Macbook Air now. I switched from a maxed out Macbook Pro to an M1 Air and it's powerful, unbelievably lightweight, and (most importantly) SILENT. I will probably upgrade to the M2 15" just for more screen real estate but I can run hundreds of plugins on my sessions and export times are better than my old Pro. The no fan is life changing for tracking in the same room for bedroom recording acoustic instruments. If you are doing huge sample libraries you can go M2 Pro but honestly Apple silicon is a game changer for compact recording rigs.
The Mac Pro is really pointed towards video production, where apparently there is still more of a professional revenue stream. Audio only studios are too “small potatoes” for Apple now. You’re still invited to move over to the Windows/Linux world and get more power for less than half the price.
I think you're spot on, it's definitely for the video guys. I'm just sad I'm not in "the club" anymore haha. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment!
With a Windows PC you’ve got more power requirements and dealing with the primitive by 20 years ago “standard” of having nothing like the low level audio CoreAudio has. No support for aggregate devices hacks like ASIO4All can’t compensate for. The hilarious inability to force one sample rate locked interface to use the clock and sample rate of another while keeping them perfectly in sync is impossible for example. You can’t even use the virtual I/O of Pro Tools on Windows by any means because the lack of any CoreAudio equivalent prevents that too. Pretending that doesn’t matter anyway solves nothing.
Agreed! I'd rather not have the expansion chassis but it's fine and is a great set up for studios moving forward! It's insane a box as small as the studio has that much power 🤯
2019 Mac Pro was already a sign that home studio are no longer as accessible as previous cheese grater, and as we all have observed this year, they will get only more expensive as time goes by. As someone who owned 2009 cheese grater previously, I miss old cheese grater days. Still, I'm okay with my M1 Max Mac Studio... I may add some Mac Minis to increase virtual instrument playback capabilities... but will take lot time to ever thinking about investing into Mac Pro - 2019 or later.
You're right, the first round of chesse graters already priced it out of the home studio market. I just fell for the hopium from the rumor mill that more affordable pros were coming. A Mac Studio with a sonnet chassis will work just fine though and is a great option moving forward!
@@SeawellStudios I feel like Apple has started to grade Mac Pros as an enterprise grade product who are willing to spend money for tax season. If not, making it $3000 more expensive compared to Mac Studio with same M2 Ultra config doesn't make sense.
While I can appreciate the nostalgia for the Cheesgrator days the reality is no one has been buying them for a while now and Apple came pretty close to killing it. But you can get the exact processor the Mac Pro has in an Apple Studio and that is ver un-apple thing for them to do.
@@darkpill I never made it to the cheese grater so my nostalgia is really for the G5 😂 I had the trashcan too but didn't really like having to use an external PCIe chassis when you're buying what is supposed to be the "pro." It is pretty wild that Apple has basically the same power in the M2 Max Studio. If they could release a Mac Pro with 3 PCIe slots at a more affordable rate I'd be all over it. All things considered, if they don't, I am happy to have the Mac Studio option for sure!
It was perfect for me during the G5 era with the built in PCIe slots for Pro Tools HD systems. Once the trashcan came out, you could see they weren't prioritizing the audio guys any more unfortunately. Mini or studio is definitely the way to go now!
M1 MacBook Pro/ HDX here. My last Mac Pro was a Xeon and I truly believe Apple is trying hard to outprice the home consumer so they can justify killing the Mac Pro once and for all. That being said…I don’t feel like I am missing anything on the M1 laptop. Performance is outstanding. Coupled with HDX Hybrid Engine it is insanely powerful.
Thanks for sharing! I have a M1 MacBook Pro as well. I haven't used it at all with my Pro Tools rig but it sounds like I need to give it a shot! I normally just use the laptop for all the video stuff.
You guys are killing me with this pricing stuff. It should be obvious that the Mac Studio is the lower-priced option for most studios/creative professionals, not the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro can make a lot of sense for others who put a premium on what can be done with the Pro but is a limitation on the Studio. Even simple things such as not having external drives all over the place and putting high capacity drives in the Pro - nice and tidy. Additional ports mated to other professional devices/peripherals whether it be monitors or 44-60" wide large format printers, etc.. $3k extra is a small price to pay to alleviate $10k worth of headache amortized over several years. Apple has their head on straight, its just that the Mac Pro isn't for every home studio... but is perfect for just as many more. Cheers!
I covered all that in the video. I said the studio is the direction to go moving forward. It's just that the Mac Pro was our machine too for many years and so it's a bit sad to say goodbye to it. I'd understand your comment a bit more if I didn't say the exact same thing already in the video.
@@SeawellStudios You did, and good on you for mentioning that fact - the title is a bit misleading as the Mac Pro is definitely still a home studio computer for a myriad of creatives. Good channel (thumbs up)
Thank you. Not trying to mislead as this is a channel solely for audio home studios so I didn’t anticipate any confusion there. I guess RU-vid pushed it to a bunch of video guys’ feeds. I appreciate you watching though & taking the time to discuss 👍🏻
Man, I'm glad that I didn't buy that 2019 Mac Pro because that will make me cut ties with Apple altogether. I got a 2017 iMac, and I'm looking into getting a Mac Studio sometimes in the fall after the Apple Event. I'm looking to do two things: upgrade to Mac Studio M1 and MacBook Pro 16 M1. Not trying to go broke because Apple got enough money already. Latest and the greatest is not that serious for me. I'm about getting the bang for my money. Period. I'm just practical with my money like that. Altogether, I feel you in this video. Trust me. You are not the first and the last to feel this way.
The more I hear about the power of M1 the more encouraged I am. Thankfully it sounds like that is more than enough so we don't even have to spring for the M2 Mac Studio. Thank you for checking out the video and for taking the time to comment, it's much appreciated!
Dude, if someone is actually still sitting on and using a G5, the investment in the new M2 Mac Pro (base config) is not that far fetched as one might think. The G5 has been introduced 20!!! years ago. If one would keep the M2 Mac Pro the same amount of time, that’s a mere 350.-/year or ~30.- a month. That’s nothing if you make money with it, even when you „only“ keep it around 10 years.
Well that's one way of looking at it. Another way is that the base model now is over double what a base model trash can Mac pro. At this rate the next base model will be 14k haha. Maybe the better question is why is our money continually worth so much less year over year but that's a discussion for another day I guess. It seems to me there's room for a current Mac Pro model with half the PCIe slots. That would stuff the music studio perfectly!
@@SeawellStudios Oh god no, the G5 was around 3.5k, the M2 now 7k. I don’t condone high prices at all. I absolutely don’t want to pay 14k for a next gen. You do have a valid point that 7k is much, but in a business perspective it’s really not THAT much. However i myself wouldn’t buy the M2 Mac Pro because my computers don’t live 20 years. It’s just when it lives 20 years, like the G5 one might still have, it’s not a huge price to pay. But for a lesser timeframe, give me the Studio or even a Mini.
I agree, for business it's not totally unreasonable. There's just this weird grey area right now between there not being a more affordable base model Mac Pro and the Mac Studio being so powerful. Honestly, it's just the cosmetics of the Mac Studio are so unimpressive and that's really shallow of me but I have to be honest haha. Maybe I can talk apple into sending me a Mac Pro case and I can just stick a Mac Studio inside LOL. From a price/power standpoint though, the Mac Studio is more than enough for home music studios so I'm thankful for that option.
With respect, the Mac Pro has never been geared towards anything remotely in the home use… Apple has made this clear for a very long time. The studio would probably be your best bet. You literally can get the same processor as the new Mac Pro for thousands less. If you want expandability, you are better off going with thunderbolt devices anyway
I agree with your statement from 2019-present but the Mac Pro before then was absolutely THE machine for recording studios. Don’t mistake the “home” part of home studio for something it isn’t. I have a 100% professional studio that I chose to have on my home property. I used Mac Pros exclusively from 2008-2021 as did all of my closest colleagues.
Yes indeed the Mac Pros did routinely roll out over the last 15 plus years in and around 3-4K. Maybe the super 12 core 2009 Mac pros were a bit more but not that much. I’m a video guy so the slots have generally been important for I/o cards plus of course a graphics card. Most audio guys who record regularly do tend to use laptops with a usbc connection to a box. Some guys just used an iMac. They have a good solid reliable process and the gear is more than fast enough for music production with plugins. Good not to jump into silicon since plugins will be orphaned. Apple did that to broadcasters using FCP when they introduced the 64 bit architecture . Nothing connected or plug ins no longer were supported. So this is their style. They are a phone company really and the Mac Pro has such little market they really could care if it makes sense for the pros or home studio people. The Mac Pro is a low volume product so they’re gonna Jack up the price. Plus never buy a first gen of any electronics especially Apple. Wait a year and then maybe buy a Mac Pro but I think the new Mac studio will suffice for most people even pros. Maybe even overkill for music production. But if you have a system that works then Why switch. It’s Apple. Thus us what they do. !!!
That's solid advice, thank you for chiming in! Great point about how dominate the phone market is for Apple these days. It's wild to think about how much has changed.
OR, the obvious solution...build a high performance intel/Windows platform and say goodbye to Apple's vagarities forever for a third or at most half the cost of a Mac product. The latest gen Intel processors, namely the 13700k and 13900K coupled with new DDR5 memory are absolute performance monsters. These things laugh at your stacked plugin chains and track counts. And, you still have (and will continue to have) access to PCI-E slots. The move to Win/Intel in the creator space has been happening for many years now and is in just about all ways, superior. I'm surprised there are as many hold outs as there are.
That’s the most disgusting thing… The 1 Euro is worth 1,07 USD, and there’s no amount of VAT or import tariffs that justify this price gouging. Even a maxed-out 15’’ MacBook Air is more than €3000 in Portugal, it’s absolutely disgusting.
Yes, I mentioned in the video I use a sonnet PCIe chassis. Don't get me wrong, I could buy a Mac Pro, it's just at that price I'd rather use the money on compressors and mics 🤑. 7K is a bit much and unrealistic for 99.9% of home studios I'd guess. You don't need a Mac Pro for a home studio of course, it's just that I did and enjoyed the excitement of the new ones for so many years that it's a bit sad that it's changing.
@@SeawellStudios yeah i got to the end of the video lol but it is technically cheaper than the 2019 Mac Pro anyone that I saw on RU-vid that got it for their studio was upgrading it to around the 12000$ mark with the cpu alone but you’re right Mac Studio makes more sense even if I got the basic pro and upgraded the storage myself what am I to do with all the slots there without gpus and I don’t use pro tools for Hd and I’d rather have the dip from my uad interfaces rather than buy one of these to fill it up with a dying product I wish they made a smaller one with 2 or 3 pcie cards because that would be amazing for storage.
@@blessed_by_welfare5922 thanks for taking the time to watch the whole video 👍🏼 I think you're spot on with a 2 or 3 PCIe model. That would be exactly what I'm looking for!
Its going to get to that point, I'm already looking to see what windows has to offer, Mac user since 2001 the silver was my first computer ever, but there is no reason for this.
@@SeawellStudios Yeap, but I just going to keep what I have or buy their cheap ones for home stuff, I think I'm going to test the water and just buy a PC for Davinci Resolve only. I can't deal with their stupid prices, they have created this eco system to then reach this point, sell at a price that is too excessive
Just get the Mac Studio M2 Ultra and be done with it. Not worth it paying $3000 for the privilege of having PCI-E slots. The sheer number of fans defending Apple that the nature of Apple Silicon prevents upgrades. Which was proven WRONG: • They did it with the SSD on Mac Pro M2 Ultra (they made it upgradeable) but restricted it on that one only, others like Mac Studio, Mac Mini didn't get this SSD upgradeability. • Previous Mac Studio M1 Max/Ultra have MODULAR SSDs but you're restricted to change it only with the same size as what you have ordered; you CANNOT upgrade those chips without a second Mac running Apple Configurator and a DFU restore (something mere mortals using MacBook Air mainly for browsing Facebook won't understand.) • Apple retaining PCIe expansion slots but reduced it to SIX (from EIGHT slots from the outgoing Intel version, not counting yet the slot with the Apple I/O card) AND removed connections for MPX modules (so, your MPX components including those Radeon graphics cards from 2019 Mac Pro are now, outside that Mac Pro model, are basically working paperweights.) • Apple not even bothered to making a secondary hardware layer or interface to accommodate DDR5 memory slots in addition to the soldered unified memory of M2 Ultra. And the most insulting part: NO MORE ECC MEMORY. • "Oh get a PC!" And what does "PC" mean, seriously? Look at what PC means. Heck, even Steve Jobs called it as such in his previous talks (even at that time he bragged about the upgradeability of the pre-2012 Macbooks.) Apple, AS A TRILLION-DOLLAR COMPANY, have all the capabilities to do so. They just chose not to.
Case in point I just opened up a 2012 Mac Pro today and had forgotten how clean and easily upgradable it was. Ram slots right on the bottom, PCIe slots just above, Hard Drives just above that. Super easy to upgrade, I miss it!
The to escape the user abusive proprietary prison of Apple products and the associated trends of anti-expandability, anti-repairability, and planned obsolescence. With their soldered in memory, soldered in batteries, and soldered in, limited write cycle SSD storage, Mac and iOS products are e-Waste the second they leave the assembly line. I'm moving deeper into LINUX World, and staying in a fully supported universe of standardized, expandable, repairable and cost competitive component hardware. And thanks to Apples policies of developer extortion, I have a sea of professional software from creators who are welcoming the FREEDOM of Linux platforms as well (e.g. DaVinci Resolve, Reaper, Bitwig Studio, Audacity, Blender). Linux is the paradise land of the free (and open). See ya when you get smart and get here. 🙂
I dont mean this in a horrible way, but if you cant spend $7k on the main machine for your work, it explains why you dont make enough money to buy it. I work on mine 10 to 16 hours a day. Its an easy purchase and a bargain to upgrade from my 2019 Mac Pro. Its all what we prioritize.
Are you in the music business? It's not that home studio owners can't afford a 7K computer it's that we want to spend that money on a computer AND a compressor 😁
I will say this: as a very loyal Mac user for almost 20 years, and after using PCs for 11 years before that, I *may* switch back to a PC if macOS keeps going down this path, of being ridden with bugs *especially* if you use third-party peripherals instead of Apple’s overpriced crap. Just for context, I have two 4K LG displays which cost me ≈$400 each, and just because I’m running those in downsampled 5K instead of plonking down €3600 (yep, here in Portugal a regular Studio Display costs as much as a nano-texture glass one does in the US, ≈$1800, which means I could buy NINE 4K LG displays for the same price as a pair of those 🤦♂️), macOS does all sorts of wonky stuff with my windows and panels when the Studio wakes up from sleep because it temporarily sets the resolution at 4K (or at the very least my apps, including Apple’s own ex-iTunes/Music, misinterpret it as such)… I fscking HATE being treated as a second-class citizen, especially after being lured into getting a supposedly standards-friendly BYODKM machine *and* buying displays from the same brand Apple partnered with and recommended right up to getting back into the display market with their Pro XDR behemoth. 🤬 On the flip side, yes, I’ve been a combined 4h on the phone with Apple Care representatives over this (my last call with them was actually today), sending them videos and whatnot, and will hopefully have Apple Engineering teams collecting logs from my system with their diagnostics app, Capture Data. I seriously hope they fix this, because some of these bugs go as far back as Catalina, and they’re inexcusable on a ≈$3000 system. Oh, and did I mention how a Ventura update completely borked file sharing for months? Yeah. Local file sharing was broken, for months, in 2023. I guess Apple just expects us all to use iCloud Drive (and pay a tithe for their ridiculous storage tiers) to keep our stuff in sync at all times or to use AirDrop instead. 🤦♂️
