I spent 80 hours as well and I disagree like 100%. You would have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars to make huge difference. And that one wouldnt matter as well,coz with time even free player gets there.
I feel Like noone knows what p2w means anymore. IT IS NOT p2w u cant buy stuff related to Player power with Money that u cant get by playing. You really Just skip a decent time of grinding.
I will pass along a rule from the first raiding guild I was in back in the Burning Crusade days, life comes first. Great topic for discussion guys. I am also looking at my budget for subscription services and will have to make some cuts even with good income.
I'm in SoCal. there is a Warhammer Cafe in Altadena. Me and my 40k buddy visited once. It was cool But I buy most of my models from a FLGS. I can call them and they will hold any new release I want without preordering it. Takes the stress out of buying limited edition sets likethe Christmas sets, Indomitus or leviathan. I only usually buy paints and novels from my local Warhammer store.
No no we care, those cards started making their way into casual tables, turning Value Generators into steady play. Turn 1 Rhystic Studies or Turn 2 Smoothering Tithe is gg. Now that Crypt is gone everything will fall back in its intended place, instead of playing Mana Rocks Tribal.
or you can just not ban cards and refuse to play with people who dont fit in with your values as a player. Taking money away from LGS's(A SMALL BUSINESS who provides the very community that has grown magic) was not acceptable. "Casual" Commander are not the decks being shown on most magic channels like Commander at Home or IHYD. They are optimized decks with good strategies. Not precons or "something i threw together", anyone who labels these channels as "casual" is morally dishonest. They arent competitive but the amount of removal/draw/optimized land based shows the truth. If you have a tundra, savannah, underground sea, taiga, scrubland, bayou, surveil lands, shock lands, triomes, dual lands that come in untapped, pain lands.. you arent casual. Not all of the decks on the show have these things but i see them a lot. Casual players supposedly dont want to spend 20$ on a land. I also fully support proxies. just declare them and move on. IDC if you want an optimized land base but its not casual to have one.
Sorry but if your already buying proxies why do you want the real card? Is there a reason you want to buy the real card over proxy if your not in it to sell them in the future.
It's a collecteble card game. If u disagree with that statement both wotc and RC states that it is. Also ur hate of pricey cards made u assume that only collectors or scalpers buys those cards? How about people who work hard to save money to afford the card they want to play.
You know why you got hate I hope. "any card over 20 dollars ban" That is the epitome of a 'idiots' take. I dont know if you some how walk that back in the rest of the video but at 30min you probably shouldnt lead off with the worst take you could take. I would gladly take on that view point in a discussion and explain in detail why that idea for banning is not good for a game, market, and players. Take a long walk off a short pier and help humanity.
You went to the largest Warhammer store in the USA to get into Warhammer and expected to not pay over $200 to get a starting army.... you really like playing with warpfire don't you?
Yeah I do not agree at all. Most "investors" buy reserved list cards. This hurts shops that sell to players and players. The value of a card is irrelevant for being ban worthy as you can proxy anything over 5 dollars easily. People celebrating the loss from people is ridiculous and no you can't play with the now "cheaper" cards as they're banned. Problematic cards should be banned. Mana Crypt was legal since I started playing in 2011 and it was never "the" problem card. I don't like the price increases but this is completely unrelated. They did this yet Thassa's Oracle is unbanned just shows how random this is.
Lotus being printed was a mistake. An ever green staple, if those are rare, it will be expensive as heck, if it were more common, it will change the format.
My brother put together a last week 2 day competitive full proxy tornament (2x Cube, 1x Pauper and 1x Legacy) and we had a blast, like we wouldn't be able to otherwise. Wizards and secondary market actively kill huge part of the game experience for broader audience, if you want to keep it in purely official side of the things. Even though, that's something I don't understand, why people tolerate this in a first place.
I feel that the people who collect high value cards help keep the game alive. Not people who proxy. You guys do nothing for the community. The game has always had chase cards, You guys should just stick to pauper if you wanna complain about prices.
I got lucky and pulled a Dockside and Jeweled Lotus. I had them in my Osgir deck mainly because of the artifact theme. The deck didn't contain flicker effects and while it could bring back the Jeweled Lotus or duplicate it with the commander, that was in expense of other things I could do and the commander duplication could only really happen once since I'd have to exile the card. When the bans were announced, I took them out and replaced them, simply figuring I could ask the table if I could run them in certain decks. They're not USELESS in my casual opinion, they simply shifted into 'need table permission to play'. And considering what those cards could do if you fully abuse them... that's fine!
I support the bans as a casual player, despite losing money on crypt and dockside. The critique of banning jeweled lotus doesn't hold water, because the RC was not a part of WotC. WotC also bans cards they make, because they warp a format or do something to it that is not desired. Fetches are banned in pioneer, purely to keep the format in check.
play a good pauper edh dec: 50 bucks gives you a full deck thats fun to play and viable to win. uw adrian, rg erinis, gw wilson, ur pirates with malcolm... they all can threaten to win around turn 5-6 consistently or shut down the rest of the table hard while not being a one trick pony themselves
granted you have to have a strategy in mind beforehand and cant just simply throw random 99 commons together and expect to be successful but apart from that its frickin amazing
1st let me preface this by saying: I support reprinting cards into the ground and support proxies fully. I dont treat cards as a investment, I'm a player and BARELY a collector (few borderless foils and a Jeweled Lotus, nothing much more after that in value other then typical singles like dub season for my hydras), i mostly buy singles and build high power decks (power 7++) I am a high power casual thru n thru. "My deck can be mean and fast and I aim to win but I can take a counterspell or a boardwipe to the face and still laugh bout it" "Any card over $20, ban it" yes that a joke but it does stem from the overly casual players philosophy. banning expensive cards wont help. I am sorry, dont think like this and vocalize it. i am happy players who still want to play jeweled lotus and crypt were getting some cheap pick ups for their at home pods but still. U folk gotta acknowledge there is a bigger part of the community you are not a apart of. not to sound like i am gate keeping, cuz more the better. pls come to the events n game stores id love to shuffle up with ya :) But let not act like there isn't a bad side to ur benefit. This Fucks high power players who go to their Lgs let alone Cedh players who play at sanctioned events or events with prizes at all. Hell i just checked on my Jeweled lotus borderless and it was still over $110 bucks. Mana crypt and Dockside are doing pretty alright too. the bans made Mana vault surge up to like $130. If a $25 card upsets u that much then just pls proxyyy. If you're just someone who play at the kitchen table then just proxy if u hate spending the money. U have no real need for the real deal then. i have proxies too, i don't do sanctioned play but i do go out to 5 Lgs's in my area and kind of have more of a incentive to have at least 90%+ real decks. I do open play which can be and is typically proxy friendly but i also do prize events. and the common etiquette is to atleast have a 99% real deck. You are right MTG is pay to play/win, this is why i tell kitchen table players to save themselves and get proxies. this is why i support reprinting things into the ground, Cuz yes they're just glorified cardboard game pieces. The problem is pubstompers being bullies and needing to take their daddy issue's out on low power pods, and low power casuals being kids n not getting up from the table with the bully or shoo the bully away. Low power players will also hear the whole table is high power and their rule 0's, but still insist on still sitting down, and im for it, if so choose to lead a game down to ur death so be it, but ay I've seen some shit and I've played some shit, even a pre con can bully a power 7/8 deck so im all for it if they so choose to sit down after hearing its a power 7-9 pod. But once they see that Jeweled Lotus that i told them was in my power 8 deck, they get salty or make moans n groans. Bro u WERE WARNED! Its a social problem that lead to this ban. if ur power 6 and below and cant stand High power to Cedh pods, then be damn sure to not sit at that table! AND PUBSTOMPERS! GO TALK TO UR DAD AND RESOLVE THAT TRAUMA BOND AND WASH UR BALLS AND MAYBE U WOULDNT BE SUCH A PRICK! GET SOME BITCHES ON UR DICK AND MAYBE PPL LIKE U WOULDNT LEAD TO BANS THAT FUCK EVERYBODY INCLUDING URSELF!! also i would put my tin foil hat on as well. all the banned cards had huge price spikes few days or so just prior to the bans, spikes in every iteration too. Remember folks buy singles not packs!
THIS is what I have said on so many video's and reddit posts about this. To me it is laughable. I just want to play the game, and I will not spend astronomical prices to play the game. Anything over $20 I will proxy if I want it so bad. I will NEVER care about the ban list, as that is pro players problems not the casual play problem. People in ALL formats need to stop caring about ban lists, stop playing random people that think they are pro and start playing t he game it was meant to be played...your way at home using the cards you own.
@@TheInfamousCloaker Personally, I mostly play at home, but that is a really good question. When I occasionally do go out to play at a game store, I get a lot of snacks and coffee for the table. I also make sure to buy my sleeves and other paraphernalia at my local store. Regardless, I think Magic is proving a poor investment - as a store or as an individual.
*GASP* BLASPHEMY! 😂 I joke because I've seen several people who seem determines to die on the hill of cEDH not being separated from casual Commander, when I feel like it already is.
Where we are with MtG is a problem created by WotC themselves. They are now in control of commander so the fox now guards the hen house. It will be interesting to see what will happen in the near future with inflation still a problem now potentially exacerbated by the port worker strike. I appreciate the discussion.
You killed your argument by stating that MTG is game first and foremost. The fairness it should be that if a card sitting in my folder no longer earns me money because it’s no longer a collectable game, then I should be able to play any card I own, and people can’t complain. You can’t have it both ways! Casual people DO care that there are bans. Most casual players hate bans. They want the freedom to be creative and unrestricted. The only people that complain and want bans, are the competitive players in 'casual player clothing'. If MTG is a game, then treat it as such. It is just a game! Why impose bans? Why make restrictions on someone else’s fun? It’s because you don’t admit that it isn’t just a game for you, and the you are making commander competitive yourself. The mantra doesn’t hold up. I’m not really against you…. This is just my view. Which I found hard to put in words. But I think you should understand it.
thank you for your view. this is complex and I feel your pain. I think it's more than a binary question of "game vs competetive". There are at least these axis to consider - casual home games - casual commander community these are between rule 0 "everything goes if everyone agrees" and "we follow banlists because that's the game rules". You can't make the necessary social contracts with randoms you play one time to build trust to supercede the bans. This is why cards are banned - to cultivate the play environment for more fun games. - competitive cedh is unique in that it wants everyone to play their best, regardless of costs. That has made the cedh *seem* pay2win, but also forced it to adopt extremely proxy-friendly attitude. Ideally you shouldn't buy premium cards for edh unless you are taking part in official sanctioned tournaments, which is a small minority. - investors yeah you got shit on. sorry. But remember that everyone who has bought high and sold low, someone else has done the reverse. As a community, it's a net 0 loss. - collectors be it from long time of playing, stories or otherwise unrelated reasons, people still care about cards that cannot be sold for value nor played. I urge people to keep their mana crypts and such. They are old cards that are hard to come by, and carry sentimental value to some.
goated view, its a great addendum to my comment i just posted. the start of ur comment. " I should be able to play my card even if its worth nothing" yup. we high power casuals to Cedh players are really eating it cuz of two groups! Pubstompers with daddy issues and low power babies who run no interaction and will still sit at a high power table after hearing everyone's honest Rule 0. I have had some many power 6 and 5s sit down after hearing everyone is atleast a 8 at the pod and they still go "oh that's fine i dont mind" but once i get my commander out t1/2 with J/L or have 40 mana turn 7 to torment of hailfire with a lil cheeky Fierce guardianship, its all salty faces and moans n groans from that same low power player... which another thing, in my 4 year long commander experience across 5 lgs in my area. low power babies are the ones not doing rule zero, huh weird. the most casual form of player cries for these convos is the one whose not having them... weird these bans have made me now turn away any low power player who tries on insisting to play with me n my friends... i am polite about it but honest "no bud, find a more appropriate pod, you wont have fun here lets be honest". I see that shit a mile away. Just like a Power power Pod should be able to sniff out a Pubstomper whose hiding behind the guise of "oh its a decent power 7" if u cant see thru that classic line of bullshit then bud ur the problem too. there can be 2 problems at once. if the problem seems to keep following you, then u maybe also to blame. pls go find a pod where everyone wants to play solitaire with legos for 13 turns before anyone really does anything (cuz no one ran amount of interaction above 5 cards and is too chicken on becoming arch enemy) in other Formats, and most of em pre date Commander. A ban list is for sanctioned play meaning actual tournaments ran by Wotc (u obviously know that) and players have forgot that. So if Commander being a casual format, we shouldnt have a ban list. Let me also say im also for Cedh being completely separate so they can run it the way they need it. its totally different format and they're getting fucked by low power babies crying on mtg sub reddits and twitter and pubstompers actions.
3d print the models and your own terrain, download the books, play with your friends, the best part of the hobby is the modeling/painting (i suck at it but im learning). GW models are very nice but the value isnt there for the price to me.
There is a game spot about a mile from there called Dallas games marathon. They do well games workshop stuff but it’s specialty is that it’s a gaming venue. Tons of space to play. It’s a unique spot.
Once you have models, you should play One Page Rules because it's a much better game system that doesn't trick you into keep losing money to GW. Also, the rules are free.
Man I feel for you guys and I get it. Game Workshop really doesnt understand how to grow their product. They have never acknowledged other games over the years. They live in a bubble. They make all of their product in house in small quantities and when they put up anything Warhammer 40k or Kill Team related it will sell out if it is a new box set. If the price point of the game is too high walk away now. Nothing about Warhammer is cheap and I mean nothing. Models, paint ,rulebooks and the time you spend on the assembly and playing is all very high. You really cant cheap out on any of the above outside of paint which you don't have to do. Games Workshop is a miniatures company and not really a game company. They are selling the hobby lifestyle more then they are selling the game. They want you to buy all of the things Now since neither of you know how to play the game I would say maybe buy the cheapest starter they have just so you can see if you even like the game. Also just watch some how to play videos on youtube. Believe me nothing is worse then spending 200+ on a game and it turns out its not even for you. Now if you are dead set on really getting into Warhammer either get the Age of Sigmar Skaventide launch box or the Warhammer 40k Leviathan launch box. Both are pretty expensive but they have everything you need to play the game. Even after that you are never done buying stuff for your armies. The big box sets usually come with push fit assembly models but that is not the norm for the rest of the products. When I say they are selling the hobby lifestyle most people that play the game like the customizing side of the hobby. Meaning when you build your army on paper and decide one of your guys has a certain gun you then assemble a miniature with that certain gun. Sometimes that weapon is not in the box that you have so you would go through all of your extra bits and put it on the model you want .You also paint the minis however you want. Their are official lore colors but you can do what you want. I have been playing for like 20 years so this is all very normal to me and other miniature wargamers but its not common knowledge to everyone. Also I would also say unless you are preordering directly from Games Workshop I would never buy from them if you want the cheapest price you can get for the product. Always just shop around online and you will more often then not find what you are looking for at least 20 percent off. The big boxes hover around $220 online if that is the way you end up going. If you take anything from this just remember Warhammer is not cheap and their is no workaround. People buy 3d printers to try and find a way but that still takes time and money. If you want my advice get the cheapest or most expensive box and buy it off of a 3rd party site.
Getting into warhammer is like committing to a 6 month DnD campaign but all the time, money and effort is crammed into the "session 0". Think of all the crazyness that goes into sticking to and participating in an in-person dnd campaign. Its about the same.
Just buy the Skaventide box, it comes with the spearhead bits plus more. If you're worried about cash, sell the additional models that aren't part of the skaven or SCE spearhead.
Sorry to add another comment i just looked at the age of sigma stuff found it confusing if I was a new player ( played 40k for 30 years and 20 years ago used to play Warhammer) anyway the boxes you are looking at are to entice new players and are not that good for value, the age of sigmar rulebook is where you start the rules for playing spearhead forces are in here as well , then you can get a big set with 2 armies for value, or wait until Xmas as in November they announce Xmas box sets which are great value army’s in one box and are normally the price approx to the spearhead army boxes ,so basically get either skaventide or the age of sigmar rulebook and a spearhead (unit box ) each for whatever forces you decide
You need to go to a local game store ,they will give you good advice to get started with,gw can help but just want your money so instead of buying a box with everything you need for a game (skaventide 2 army’s, rule book and other things) gw will pressure you into getting skaventide, paints ,extra rule books etc,
