I guess the first the question is “Why collect 78s?” Recorded music began in the late 1800s, and until roughly 1950 recordings were primarily 78 rpm singles. From 1948 to 1960 or 61 many records were sold as both 78s and 45s.
On this channel we will discuss the records of the first half of the 20th century, with a focus on how the music evolved, the principal artists, and the growing industry that recorded them. Who where the artists influenced artists like Cream, Hendrix, the Eagles, and early rockers like Bill Haley, Elvis and Little Richard? All of this recording history is documented in shellac on old 78 rpm records of the time.
In addition, we will also discuss issues related to collecting 78s
Ideas for finding 78 rpm records How to clean 78 rpm records How to store 78 rpm records Other online resources for collecting 78s
I've been a record collector since I was about 12 years old. I have roughly, eight thousand + 78 rpm records and I clean them all the same. A horse hair shoe polish applicator, a little dish soap, and a cool stream of sink water... rinse well and use a soft cloth to dry. I can't think of a time, in my 42 years as a collector, the cleaning process hasn't worked. As you know and probably mentioned in this video, shellac is fragile, much care has to be given to these records, when handling. Thanks for your upload and the information.
This is a terrific viewing of the various ways to clean 78s and I really enjoyed watching it. I have been collecting records since I was 12 years old and am now 77. The best method I have seen to clean, not only 78s, but all records is by using a hard surface, micro-fiber towel, or a clean tee-shirt, and Glass Plus. Glass Plus doesn't have any alcohol, nor ammonia, in it and cleans records as clean as they can get... just my 2¢.
I can only advise the method using a vacuum cleaner with the cleaning fluid. Shellac and filler, of which 78's are made, are extremely porous and hygroscopic material and water immediately penetrates the record deep under the surface. Trying to dry the record with a cloth or leaving it in a dry warm place is not going to do it. But the fatal effect of water on a 78 is not immediately visible; you'll think the record is clean and dry but the destruction will only show over time. Water, trapped inside the record, will eventually cause the shellac/filler to expand; that is the reason why so few records from the 1920's are still really shiny; because they have not been kept in a dry environment. When new, all records, even the worst pressings, were shiny and without surface noise. It's getting wet and/or being kept in a damp environment that has deteriorated the surface over time, ranging from slight dulling to heavy gritting. Cleaning a record with water and not vacuum drying it will severely add to that deterioration. The only safe way to clean a 78 is to use special 78 cleaning fluid and a vacuum record cleaner like the one shoen here or this one which I highly recommend; expensive, yes, but it is the very best way to clean an preserve a 78, many of which (at least in my collection) are worth more than this machine! www.nittygrittyinc.com/product/record-master-2
I've always been a fan of The Crooner. My favorite records are the Paul Whiteman Columbia Viva-Tonal Potato Head 78s. Several of course, feature Bing, who got his start with the Paul Whiteman Orchestra. Thanks for sharing.
I have used a micro-fiber and foam (I guess you'd call it that) paint pad for years. You can feel the fine bristles getting down into the grooves. As much as I love the idea of the ultrasonic tank, my paint pad is less than $10.00. My biggest takeaway from your video is the use of GV Rinse Aid and not having to rinse the record of dishwasher soap. I'll be looking for it, next trip to Wallyworld. Thanks for sharing.
Hi, great video! Is it possible to find albums to store your 78s in? I have always wanted to get into collecting them but I'm afraid I'll break them or something like that.
Hi I just fixed an old gramophone which you call a victrola in North America, and I've started collecting 78s which I found out are the only records my gramophone plays. Most 78s I have don't have sleeves and so far I just have them in stacs. You said you replace all the the old sleeves. Do you keep the sleeves because a guy that I got some old Edison records from before I new what they were and that they needed a different type of reproducer gave me a big stack of newer 78s which he said we're one's without sleeves. So I thought ones with the original sleeves must have some sort of collectors value? I noticed your playing your 78s on a more modern electrical record player. Even though the acoustic gramophone is great for playing 78's and sounds great now I have plenty of new needles. I was thinking of possibly getting a modern record player that you don't need a new needle every time... maybe one that can play other types of old records like Edison Diamond Disks and Vynl LPs aswell. What's the best record player for 78's and are there any special considerations for playing 78's on a modern record player?
The microgroove is 25 micrometer, stereo is 18 micrometer, 1950's shellacs 65 micrometer, shellacs from 1930 to 1949 are best played with 90 micrometer and a curve, that doesn't cut treble and has low shelf starting below 200 Hz. Acoustic recorded records runs pretty good with RIAA and 120 micrometer.
Hi Joe, great video of pros and cons of the three methods. I'm of the type who buys collections, so the ultrasonic method would suit me best. You mentioned in your video that you might do another video comparing the effectiveness of each. I think that would be a great follow-up. I guess my opinion would be, unless the non-ultra sonic methods cleaned records far better, there would be no reason not to go with ultra-sonic for the sake of convenience. Have you cleaned any pre-1940s shellac? Just wondering how older shellac would hold up to ultrasonic. Thanks again for your very informative video.
Little Richard- "Rip it Up"- "Got me a date and I won't be late Picked her up in my 88 Shag on down by the union hall When the joint starts jumping I have a ball" Coincidentally, a piano has 88 keys...
I just use a mild dish washing detergent, luke warm water, and a shoe brush. It makes suds when I scrub, and I rinse them off before drying. A little time consuming, but it gets the job done, doesn't leave them with any residue, and is cheap.
Hi Joe, thanks for the video. Could you tell me the brand and model number of the ultrasonic machine and particularly, the model of your motor spindle, record label protectors and spacers. I have not been able to locate a magnetic one anywhere and think it's slick. I'm thinking of buying the sonic but they are so expensive. Thanks in advance! Wayne
I collect everything from the late 1800s to the present. However the records that I actively seek out are Texas blues and R&B artists from the 40s and 50s.
I love the sound of 78's, and the music that became our first opportunity to project sound into the future! Thank You for your selections and important historical research, Mr. Davila!
I really enjoyed the background to the recording and distribution of this record. I started with 78s as a boy. My mother inherited my grandfather's 78s and I was fascinated by them and the old music on them. I especially remember a batwing Victor of "Anvil Chorus" by Arthur Pryor's band, which I still have. Fast forward to the early '70s when I listened to Dr. Demento (Barrett Hanson) on KMET in Los Angeles. On his local 4 hour program, he played 78s extensively. That re-ignited my interest in 78s and I began to crate dig for them. I bought 100 78s just two weeks ago. My collection is now around 4k, representing over 50 years of crate digging. Two of the standouts are a Berliner and a Black Swan.
Thanks Joe! I'm investigating moving to ultrasonic cleaning. I currently use a DIY RCM built around the VPI wand. I get good results but have wondered if ultrasonic would do better. I'm looking at the Isonic unit. I have around 4,000 78s with the oldest one being a Berliner from 1898, going up to 1957.
I store mine upright in thicker “disc-o-file” sleeves and in clear plastic containers so they can be moved easier. I organize chronologically and keep original sleeves with their records in clear plastic sleeves. I also keep my rarer records separate from the more common ones.
Spot on storage info! Love the modified shelves too! I've had my 78s in tomato boxes for years. Moved a couple times with them. They're extra thick, have lids, and fit 78s perfectly.
It seems a common recommendation for 78RPM users to clean with tap water. That is the 100% the opposite of every vinyl cleaning recommendation because of the minerals in tap water that could add pops and clicks on playback. I don’t know if it’s a money saving issue or that people don’t care as much about sound quality and care of the 78s but I’ve yet to see a video like this that doesn’t say to use tap water.
I think that distilled water is in principle better because it does not introduce mineral deposits that could contribute to noise. However the practical issue is that 78s are noisy even if they are in the best condition. Most 78s have been heavily played and are not in pristine condition. For me, cost is also an issue. My ultrasonic cleaner uses a few liters on water and this can be very expensive if one is cleaning 50-several hundred records where the water must be changed several times. In addition I quickly vacuum the water off of the record, minimizing the likelihood of mineral deposition on the surface. Drying with a clean microfiber cloth is likely to accomplish this also. These are my reasons for using tap water, you need to decide for yourself on the process that you want to use.
@@josephdavila6798 reverse osmosis systems will cut that cost to practically 0 over time. Just get one that screws into a regular faucet. A splitter on your cold water faucet in laundry m Use that same drain for what R/O does spits out. R/o filters at this rate of use would last many years at a time. NO wasting plastic or long hauling from the store.
Joe, tried to use the email listed but not working I thoroughly enjoyed you video on 3 ways to clean 78s. Very informative and well done. My father was an super avid record collector from 1935 on. During the first 25 years he amassed a huge collection of 78s. His goal was to own every recording of his favorite song, Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael. He also collected music in general as this was his passion. I have well over 5,000 records. Long story short, they sat in the basement f the family home for way too long. The records never moved from there for over 55 years. My older brother moved into the house after Dad & Mom moved to Florida in the late 80s. After my older brother passed in 2016. I hauled them out to a storage unit. I recently brought them to my retirement house where I have a very large climate controlled garage. Now to getting them organized and most important cleaned. Many of the books, records etc have a chalky white mold or mildew on them. Testing a few it almost all comes off with simple detergent bath and a toothbrush. However you can still see some type of spotting on the record. Obviously I will eventually get a system like you suggested to speed up the general cleaning process. Tony Foster Painter VA 757-442-2340
Tony Washing records by hand can be very effective but as you say it is very time consuming. Simple dish detergents do a pretty good job of cleaning them. I also have a collection of about 5000 records. Cleaning them was a labor of love. Good luck with your collection. Joe
HELLO JOE, FROM THE UK. I've just watched part 3 and found it very interesting and informative, this is a great series and I look forward to the next video. Stay safe Joe. 🙂👍
Just found your channel here in the UK and you have a great channel, very interesting and informative. I have subscribed and look forward to the next video. Well done. 🙂👍
I just found your channel and I appreciate your straight forward way of presenting information! how ever you could improve by balancing your audio! Your voice over is very quiet, so I turned up the volume, when the music started It was very loud ( to loud)! as I said before I appreciate the information, you present with out first going over your life history, like a lot of youtubers do!
Thanks for your video. What's your opinion about leaning 78s at an angle on shelves? I have a system a bit like yours, but I'm always worried the leaning at an angle will warp them - whereas filling a 'cube' all the way up with 78s prevents them from leaning, but makes them much harder to browse through. I'd be interested to know how you deal with that. Thanks!
I agree that storing records for a long time at an angle will likely result in warping. It is best to store them close to vertical and in a constant temperature environment.
My 78s are circa 1950, which I'm told were actually made of vinyl by that point. However, I'm not certain how widespread the use of vinyl was by then. Not sure if it was used by smaller labels or in the UK (where many of my records were made).
In the early 1950s “Unbeakable” records began to appear. MGM records was a pioneer in this are. I am not sure what material these records were made from. They are more brittle than today’s vinyl record and definitely can be broken.
I just use mild soap and water with a soft cloth, then gently rinse. Never had a problem with it. I won't immerse it in water. I try to keep the paper part dry.
I have seen no micro pitting. However I have cracked a few records. I believe that the cracking was caused be water that was too warm. If you have other experiences it would be useful for you to share them with this group.
Hi @@josephdavila6798. I know you are aware of this but "shellac" (in quotes) is a blend of organic and inorganic materials of unknown quantity, e.g.: lac, ground slate, carbon, fiber and who knows what other fillers and extenders - a seemingly endless variety of materials used by different manufacturers spread over geography, time and economic circumstance. Under ideal conditions the behavior of such materials would be difficult to predict. Add to that roughly 100 years of age having been subject to many thousands of temperature and humidity variations makes such material behavior impossible to predict. Limited empirical observations aside perhaps one would err on the side of caution. If needed a quick, light rinse & scrub and gentle vacuuming with distilled water - less is more.
Could you reference where your information came from so I can read it It would be great if you had before and after pictures/micrographs. I have over a thousand 78 rpm records that I "inherited" and need cleaning. I don't want to damage them in any way.
@@waynesharaf6369 Hi Wayne. Gosh over the last 20 years that I have been into 78RPM records I've read from many sources I'm sorry I don't have a specific link or reference at the moment. Skipping cylinders and Edison Diamond disks, shellac records were manufactured over a period of about 60 years through two world wars and in multiple continents by hundreds of different small and large companies. No one really can know all of the proprietary formulations used. So the safest thing is really a wipe down with a microfiber cloth dampened with distilled water. If you have a specific type of labels, manufacture date-range or type of dirt/mold you need to remove others and myself can happily advise. I have about 30,000 shellac records in my private collection but still this is a narrow focus on Classical music between roughly 1920 - 1945 and music from India between about 1908-1945. There will be different formulations in the shellac for popular and Jazz record labels for example. What type of labels and material are you looking at and is it just dust and old sleeves that need cleaning, updating?
@@LordOfTheThreeWorlds Hi Steve, thanks for getting back to me. I had to excavate to check the records. The label in one of the boxes was His Royal Majesty. I will look further .
Joseph Davila i got my hand on around 80 records in books sum unplayed most likely they are older then me i am looking to get a proper 78 cartridge any recomedions ?
Hello I found a Muddy Waters/ Rollin stone / Walking blues 78 along with a BB King 3 o'clock blues for 25 cents a piece. They are pretty scratched but still play without a skip do you think those are worth trying to clean ?
