I noticed Bruce mentioned Robert Chapman's book, Empire of Normality. I;m reading that at the moment, but bit by bit because there;'s a lot to think about. Sorry it took me a while to catch up with this one, I'm so busy. It was another great conversation, thanks for doing. (I am AKA Traci K)

56:39 Salon style display! I love that way of displaying art. I do my art and posters like that in my apartment (partly because my walls are white and I can't stand that). You can fit more art in that way :D There's a couple rooms at the Art Gallery of Ontario that are *full* of Cornelius Krieghoff paintings, and they're all of the same subject matter. I got a bit overwhelmed in those rooms, and yelled about it once I got back to my people.

Can we drop the music please

I love Kristen

So kara, if you don't know Colson Whitehead's book Underground Railroad, buy it today. As a child he had the same literal interpretation of the words Underground Railroad that you did, and more recently turned it into a wonderful, sometimes brutal novel.

Thank you so much for this episode! It unfolds in such a thoughtful, unhurried manner. I enjoyed the curiosity, wonder, and mutual appreciation you all shared with each other.

Revenge bedtime procrastination. Yup.

2:48 I think the perception of autists not being creative comes from the tendency of low masking autists to go for STEM careers, and a perception that STEM is very cerebral and doesn't require much creativity (combined with autistic flat affect and the fact that dyspraxia can sabotage artistic expression: I was quite a doodler in school, but never coordinated enough to pursue any kind of art career even if I'd wanted to). I think there end up being cultural differences between high and low masking populations that tend to cause animosity when the individuals involved don't know they're autistic and can't explain themselves to each other in the language of autism. High-masking cultural spaces tend to feel toxically neurotypical to low-maskers, even if most people in the space are autistic, and low-maskers tend to come across as social liabilities to high maskers (or that's the impression I get from how I've been treated by undiagnosed high-maskers). I think more of the classically "artistic" autists tend to be in the high-masking space, so there ends up being a cultural hostility between the artistic and STEM sides of the "autistic and doesn't know it" community.

You are back :) I look forward to regular episodes now. PS: Singing for myself seems to calm my nervous system, too. Laurits

Insight Timer! That's the App with Bruce's music

I’m glad we are back

Oh wow I was literally thinking about all you lovely peeps yesterday and wondering when you would be back! 😊

This is so interesting. I love to paint, yes I don't follow convention and paint in a 'flowing' /organic way if this makes sense? I would struggle ever to make money from my painting...I can give them away. I also am a bodybuilder and love the artistic side of the sport and incorporate ballet into my routines as I love the flow. The flow of the routines juxtapose the struggles in the weight room.

Awesome conversation! We need to hear more about long covid + autism/ADHD. Also really curious where the research with biowearables is going, it will be really helpful with interception.

I'm watching this cause I believe I could be autistic and it was so interesting to hear about her experience with pregnancy, birth and motherhood as I recently also became a mom. It feels like things I could hide before I can't anymore. What she said about not being able to prepare to how you handle sleep depravation etc is so true. Plus I also had a c-section with this baby AND had a medical abortion from my first daughter (so many similarities), which made the second pregnancy terrifying and extremely challenging. If I truly am autistic, I feel like it could explain a lot and make me feel less.. crazy/weird/different. Anyway, I just wanted to thank you so much for this episode.

I only want to be with your group. Sign me up.

Yes, Love me like you do.

remind daily please thank you

Believe me I know. And thankfully others do also.

Wow. I've seen a particular set of visual patterns that sort of overlay my vision my entire life. I could draw them.

Results

Oh my gosh. What beautiful people, awake or sleeping. 🥰

What was said about adulting and making new friends as grown ups. When my kid got ~2 years old it came to me that at this point I am responsible for helping her meeting other kids, scheduling play with other kids, creating options for her, etc. (and that includes meeting new people at their homes, or inviting people over) And also there's an expectation from other parents that you'll pickup on some things that are completely not obvious like "our kids are friends now, so they could be giving each other presents for birthday".

You can’t be a cop in America with a strong sense of justice.

I was diagnosed with ADHD almost 2 years ago, just days shy of my 61st birthday. In the last 6 months or so, I have come to believe that I am autistic as well. When you were talking about the police officers giving tickets for small offenses, I thought to my first evaluation as a manager. I gave the 1-5 scores as dictated and came up with a very low score for a very hard-working valuable employee. He was incensed. I didn't get it. And then the accents - when I would visit my family in Eastern PA, I would carry thaf accent for a week or so on my return. And the tangents. Always. And interruptions. And the bluntness. I have learned to tell people: please be direct with me. And many times they still aren't. And conflict planning out different scenarios. And processing. And and and. So much you talk about I relate to. (Oh, and relatively high scores on assessments: CAT-Q: 135, RADS-R: 140, GQ-ASC for women: 68, Aspie Quiz 140/200, Monotropism Questionnaire: 200/235, AQ: 35) (Haha - how do you like THAT Info Dump?) It's highly unlikely Ill ever get a formal diagnosis as there doesn't seem to be much value for me in that. Thanks for this.

Autistics are sucked into these ideologies and social contagions because we are socially naive. This is a form of exploitation and we are feeding ourselves to it

This was a good talk untill it turned into an intersectional struggle session. The purity spiral of exclusion is hostile toward autistics who don't accept the ideology

Also, the gentleman in the suit is very brilliant, insightful, funny 😅and smart. He probably explored so many concepts/struggles of people with autism.

Insightful podcast!! I wonder why even the CEOs are afraid of stigmas surrounding autism. It is baffling to know how the society is wired to operate around 'labels'😅

This is an excellent podcast!! It is quite philosophical to think about the extent of social conditioning that happens to everyone. For people with autism, the bending is too much to the point of burnout. Interestingly enough, people with autism are the ones to ask the existential/spiritual question 'who am I?' . I continue to ask this question myself. It is probably because people with autism don't completely buy the subtle ideas that society sells all the time 😅

On the “no distress (support needs), no diagnosis” thing. On one hand, I see the point. However: you can’t register or do research on the autistic people who don’t qualify for a diagnosis according to those criteria, so they will by definition not exist in statistics and research. It perpetuates stereotypes about how disabling autism is when you don’t see the ones who go through life doing well. If you’ve managed to arrange your life in a way that works for you, your ‘reward’ is being invisible since, again: no distress, no diagnosis. Also, if you can only get diagnosed when distressed (and whether/to what degree you are can fluctuate hugely depending on a bunch of life factors) that’s when you’re the least able to do something like pursue a diagnosis. Then there’s all the people who keep pushing through for many years and end up in massive crises which could have been prevented had they known and gotten support earlier. And all the ones who are misdiagnosed with depression, anxiety, OCD, personality disorders, trauma, ADHD etc. Or they have those as well, but everything is being blamed on those things and the autism never detected. And not to mention all the struggles that are there, even if other people don’t see them. Point being: while I do get your argument, I think there should be a better system. One that calls people autistic if they are autistic, not just if they’re traumatized, burned out, falling apart, and/or struggling *in a way that someone certified to diagnose *can see/hear/notice/acknowledge and *agree with/understand is causing problems *and that they ascribe to the person being autistic. Each of these levels is another factor that will reduce the number of people who are recognized as autistic. How about they make four levels instead of 3, and level 1 is something like “autistic functioning without need for external support”, and the current descriptors are pushed down one level? (If I come across as angry, I apologize. I’m not. Just frustrated, burned out, and tired. I appreciate your content!)

16:16 "I'm going to refer you to a stomach doctor" "A gastroenterologist?"

15:55 This would be so much easier if I weren't a hypochondriac. 😂

This following comment is not related this video: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just feel like sending you a thought I have about autism spectrum disorders. There is a link below, to a picture, that goes with the following text. Here is the thought about autism that I want to share: I think, a conversation involving two people with Autism, they will communicate literally, they will directly address the points that make up the line that the conversation is following. A conversation between two neurotypical people will not be literal, they will not directly address the points that make up the line that the conversation is following, they will say things that influence the narrative they each have in mind, and assume that the other person realizes and takes the hint, I will compare it to being kind of like a dolphin firing a sonar ping, rather than directly draw the line point by point, they will fire a sonar "ping" to influence the direction the conversation is taking. Change the trajectory. In conversation, neurotypicals sometimes steer away from certain points. The narrative that both neurotypicals in the conversation are both silently aware of, is what influences the trajectory of the conversation, not the literal words being spoken. I think neurotypicals are capable of directly saying each point, but it is not their default mode of communicating. I think, doing introspection, and conversation role playing in my head, helps me make me conscious of the narrative, and helps me communicate better with neurotypicals, Random note, that I think is relevant to this post, the derogatory phrase that people sometimes use: "did you catch my drift?", -- I think it is in reference to this dolphin ping concept. link to picture: drive.google.com/file/d/1Tuve5YpKO4zJ52bJ1MTRNKgIzbvpafti/view?usp=drive_link

I'm autistic and a mom of two. I refused an epidural both times. I had an emergency C-section with my 2nd, emergency spinal block, included. O_O My advice is learn to meditate/ focus intensely by going within. It helped me to shift my focus and efforts to helping my children come into the world. This is a process of becoming. It is messy and painful and traumatic, but you *do* recover, and you are a new person afterward from the experience.

I actually had to repeat first communion class!

Greatly appreciated seeing Maja again, and Tony Attwood. Interesting conversation.

it is so nice to see and hear Maja again! Am looking forward to read your book! I had several miscarriages in the past, and how rough those were made me decide bearing children is probably not a good thing for me physically. I am glad you are blessed with yours <3 despite the sensory overwhelm of the whole process, and the emergencies you had. @Kara I had to "force" myself to take a break over december-january with another COVID infection, then pneumonia. I agree you need a break away from your daily surroundings to "break from set routines" that drives your adrenaline/cortisol to produce constantly. Not being able to relax is in itself a sign of burnout. I decided to take a break from studies to recover - when your wearables tell you that you are at the very limit, you have to respect the data, even if interoceptively I cannot "tell" how sick I was! Getting COVID when you are physically and mentally burntout is so much harder on your system, and it takes longer for recovery, and doubling of LongCOVID issues, on top of exacerbation of pre-existing issues. Will be under good care by a great medical team in U of Calgary though! Might be a good future discussion topic: LongCOVID, Chronic Fatigue and Autistic Adults. @Bruce - i think our "connection" with animals is not so much due to our "social difficulties with other people" (i mean, many AuDHD have ZERO social difficulties with other ASD, ADHD people, only with NT) - it is likely the mode and mood of our thinking and emoting are so much less "masked" by imposed social rules, that animals find us ... more comprehensible. Think about times when we are overwhelmed and/or sick, and "non-verbal" - these tends to be the times the furbabies are most attentive to us to give us comfort, when other humans will just barrage us with "tell me whats wrong, why dont you just buck up and do things, it is NOT that hard - no one else found it hard"

i'm building a business and i am giving my food services to many people in gathering events for very cheap to nothing in exchange for simply spreading the word and giving out fliers for my food catering business, and i'm involved in local animal shelters and thrift stores as well as this place that gives away used furniture to families less able to afford it, and i can get tax deductions as a side befit by donating to these entities as well

i prefer to psychologically dominate the group in group settings. i've learned social engineering techniques from studying fellow autistic social eningeerers like kevin mitnik but maybe that's because i have anger and bitterness issues

I’m so loving this chat, I want this friendship for my 19 year old daughter. She’s such a beautiful being ❤. She’s joined a young adult neurodivergent group…. Only 3 of them but they click 💕👍

😊😊😊😊🎉

Great muddling.😅 I enjoyed the conversation.

Hmmmm

😅😅😅

45:30 “One of the things that I have always explored, and I think this is very important, is the concept of “who are you?”, and the recognition of the authentic self. Now, the authentic self may be different in the convention of gender, etc. It's “who are you?”, and I think many autistic individuals will explore the sense of self deeper than others may. Others may do this briefly, and so on, but an autistic individual, often as a solitary pursuit, would explore the meaning of life, and why they don't fit in, and a whole range of things, and are much more self-analytical, and are looking for explanations. And so what happens is that the person has come to a decision after a lot of thought, that nobody else has listened into.” Wow! Another great insight! This explains why so many philosophers were probably autistic - like Schopenhauer and Wittgenstein for example. Amazing! Thank you for this wonderful interview with the most knowledgeable expert on Asperger’s in the world!

This was such a great discussion! I was recently diagnosed with autism a little over a month ago at age 46. I didn't really understand what autism really was before my diagnosis, but I have been learning a lot. I've realized that there were a lot of special interests that I denied or suppressed in my youth and young adulthood, which led to many failed career paths as I was trying to do things I was not naturally good at. Now later in life, I am rediscovering my special interests and hidden aspects of myself. This discussion gave me so much to think about. I'm glad this video was here for me to find. Thank you! ❤

One of they most challenging experiences I had was the 3 days I was in hospital with my new born baby it was completely overwhelming, nothing quite prepares you for that

Such a great forum. I really identify with you upon the loss of a pet and a human loved one. Thank you.

Dr. Karen, I am a black autistic mom of a autistic 5 yo with developmental delays. Can u invite a black woman or multiracial person to share their experience. I work in health equity yet this is a new and personal space. Very isolating in general but People of Color and Indigenous Communities face additional barriers and stigma. I think your program creates a safe space. Happy to discuss but I am super new to this space since my son is 5. Thanks.