The torque on this is plenty with some spare. I don’t know about the vrs pro. It may be more it may be less. This wheel is so good I am not bothered with other stuff. People can split hairs but then opinion is like Marmite…. You like or don’t. This is a immense wheel
I have an Alpha U. It is definitely overkill. This alpha is really all that anyone needs. The U is only good for occasionally cranking up the power to accurately simulate old high downforce cars for some fun. Im a strong, fit, professional tower climber with very high grip strength. 6’1 (186cm) and 200lbs (90kg). I’ve tried doing a whole race in the F4 car on iRacing with the power cranked all the way up. After 5min I’m getting tired, 10min in my hands and wrists start to hurt. After the full 20min race I’m drenched in sweat my hands can hardly hold on and my wrists feel like wet noodles and actively hurt. I’ve got to avoid curbs and/or bumps because the shock through the wheel hurts too much. Most of the time I run it between 10 and 15nm. Less power and I feel like the car isn’t communicating with me enough, more and it gets tiring/painful after a while.
Sim race hack, go big, turn up to max in software, turn down in game… enjoy high slews, best realism, live your sim life and avoid caring about such things.
Most drivers say that around 12-14nm is accurate to real life… Imo having raced mx5 Miata’s, that seems to be about right, I set to 14nm on my wheel settings and the iracing dbox to around 10-11 in the car… And really that even feels a little extra with the FFB compared to irl… Also imo, brakes is wayyy more important than your wheel
i was once like u, invest all money to sim rig, wheel, base, pedal, and i playing with 24 inch monitor, i feel something not complete, and my monitor was broken, now im upgrade it with triple monitor, now feel like where it should be
Although it's not the most scientific measurement, I love how much you rate these bases on their feel versus just the numbers. I completely understand (and honestly agree with) the argument that more overhead is better for preventing clipping and to grow into as your arms get stronger, but I also think those viewpoints are overly critical when considering a casual sim racer and convinces people to spend more money just to have something they'd never know is missing, if they ever even reach that threshold. I've been saving up for a year so that I can treat myself to an Alpha and was thinking about going for an Ultimate (upgrading from T300), but your videos convinced me that an Alpha is all that's needed, and I'll be using that extra money to add haptics to my seat instead so that I can have more fun in my rig. Keep up the great content, I subbed and will continue to tune in!
I wonder if the benefits of the Alpha over the mini would then only be present if one were to use the damper and inertia settings. So, keep the force output range the same as the mini still but the additional headroom would be consumed by the damper and inertia simulation component if that makes sense. On my CLS DD, turning up these settings really starts to kill the feeling of the ffb signal when they shouldn't and don't when I've tried an SC2 Pro with even higher damper and inertia settings.
Damper and interia is friction and resistance respectively. So off course friction in a system will absorb energy and resistance will oppose motion. So a double attack on ffb fidelity. That why I have low settings for more Raw signals fully coming through.
I upgraded from CSL DD (8nm) to alpha (15nm) and started developing wrist issues. Had to dial down FFB strength and problem went away. Mini is more than fine for most. Also, noticed you are using USB Canbus Hub. Did you have any issue with devices being recognized? Did you connect any non Simagic devices to the hub?
I literally get on youtube and they show me yoyr videos ive watched so then i come here and comment hahs. They just keep reccomending it to me. But hey thats fine I enjot it. Im actually using 12nm on the ultimate so yeah haha. Im on the same page as you.
I got the ALPHA ….. I used a tool to measure the max holding torque of 13.5NM as test by Dan Suzuki and Iracing staff. That holding force corresponded with 12.2nm on sim pro while using my Alpha base. So my base is limited to max holding force of 13.5 NM like the Mini is and I gave my impressions on how an Alpha user perceives a weaker base.
You need a solid 8020 rig my friend. Your losing so much touch and FFB with it the way it is now. Just know any wiggle or movement is taking away FFB feeĺ.
lol …. Tangential force multiplied by distance. That how Isaac newton would have done it. Unless there is new physics in the universe that come into play after 14 billion years 😂
@@ArchOfficial Error is closer to 5% but realistically 3%…… In the interest of science how have you come to 40%…… My maths I will give you here and tbh I don’t even want to type it out as I feel your comment is so outlandish and without understanding. It’s shocked me when I saw the figured you have typed.
Okay will try it …. What does Force feedback signal do to the curve ?? What does smoothness do to the curve ?? I thought smoothness stops the overshoot ??? But your saying rotation high makes it overshoot and then settle ( I presume due to the wheel inertia and high rotation speed makes it overshoot) ?? Also rotation speed zero the wheel is not going to be as snappy and feel a bit lazy right ??
@@Max__apex Force Feedback is gain. Like changing the % higher in the sim settings. It scales the directinput output. Smoothness is a low pass filter. It reduces vibrations from the road or over kerbs. Wheel rotation speed 0 is going to be linear without any manipulation of the FF output based on steering direction vs FF direction. How it responds depends on how you drive and how the car model responds. No returnability or rotation speed issues in my models.
@@Max__apex I did some more testing, and smoothness is not just a simple lowpass. 0 is best PID control and least delay, but also very noisy. 10 is insane delay to the point it feels like negative damping. A quite low value is probably best.
@@Max__apex 0 is too harsh to feel realistic, so you kind of have to run 1. It's a shame it introduces so much delay. Even 1 has noticeably more delay than 0, but it won't be a real issue in most cases. 0 can almost perfectly control very bad situations hands-off, while you might get a tiny bit of oscillation with 1. Any more is unusable for things like drifting. I think it's just the nature of filtering, though. Making very low frequency filters in particular introduces immense delay.
when you limit the base via Max Torque it will just cut off everything above, but the actual force scaling will be like if you had a 15nm base. It will not mimick the Alpha mini with these settings. In order to properly compare the feel between two bases, you should reduce the Force Feedback instead on Alpha.
Incorrect. 1.0 DI will be 1.0 DI. Changing the torque changes the amount of torque the base provides when DI is 1.0. There shouldn't be, all else equal in the driver and motor (Probably not entirely), any difference between a Mini at 10Nm and an Alpha at 10Nm. Force Feedback is a linear gain and it scales the DI output, same as changing the % in sims where gain is linear.
@@Max__apex haha well that's how rumor works. Someone say something, and you're worried yours are the same. With equipments this expensive, you don't want it to be "inferior".
@@micofok730 You know your Alpha bases is strong. And most likely you turn it down. Even if they made it weaker then still doesn’t make a difference. But it’s stronger if anything or the same.
Set it so that maximum force is 13.5nm ….. it clips when it’s above that value. Simpro should have set it to 12.2Nm in the software not 12.4. Later on I set it to 11.1nm in software and still it felt great to drive with good hit on the bumps. Mini has plenty of power and detail. If you’re slow then please DONT BE making excuses and saying the dwta is not there. It’s all there. Your turning and braking is because your not understanding the how cars behave and not getting rotation and millions of other things. It 100% is not the MINI that holding anyone back. Mini is good power. More top end hit is available but doesn’t really do much apart from : “Oh fcuk that was hard kick” and “Fcuk my fingers and hands are in spasm from holding it so tight and fatigued after 1 laps of NORDS”
enjoyed your video and your insights. I´m just getting back to sim racing and I´m researching for a new wheel and pedal setup. What pedals are you using and do you think it´s worth to buy the alpha mini as a starter or should I go with a fanatec 8nm or moza r9/12?
Get the Mini 💯….. it’s quality level stuff. I use csl load cell did 2 mods on them with a spring and then added haptic motor later on …. FROM SIMAGIC. Works a TREAT 😜
Honestly you did. The detail is the same. Big RU-vidrs say the same thing. JUST the HIT on kerbs is not as violent and stupid and steers the car a bit from corner by straightening the wheel and alternating the balance …. Which Fcuks up your speed a bit. So slower
I’ve also been debating on going from the mini to the ultimate. This really helped make up my mind that the mini is way strong enough. How do you go abound 10NM on the mini in Simpro managerThanks!
@@jnkyrd.4106 10nm does not translate to the MINi strength. It’s closer to the measured 12.2 nm ….. on my base 10nm is okay but a bit weak and it is about 8nm in reality
The problem with 10nm Wheels is that it limits you when it comes to buying rims, 33 diameter rims or any heavy wheel for that matter you’ll start to lose texture and rotation speed, just my opinion, but if you’re gonna get a direct drive wheel you’re probably gonna be looking at multiple rims ,and 15nm is the minimum if you’re looking for longevity, new games peripherals etc.
I drive trucks for years, so I find my csl dd 8nm kinda average. It's definitely enough though like you said, to give you the dynamic range needed. And the details are still very high. I use an app called FFB clip, and set it to 8nm. So when I drive a gt3 for example. The details are high and it feels 1 to 1 until (as you said) a violent force such as a jump over a curb into a turn, causing sudden grip. Those sorts of things never clip, but I only ever feel them upto 8nm, when I'd imagine they would really feel more like 10nm. The forced I felt in extreme conditions in the truck wpuld be I'd guess around 11nm. Most was much lower though, maybe more like 4 to 6nm
weird calculation. if software shows 15nm max and its 18.8hm irl then why would u assume 12.4nm on app is the same as in real life? id say put it on 10nm on software, so it would be 12.4nm in life. 12.4nm on soft could be anything above that in life.
@@Max__apex did u measure ACTUAL alpha mini for preference ir just did an assumpiton? Also mini v1 and v3 power outputs may be different since they use different power bricks.
The FOV police will come and get you! Haha screw those guys. Good video. Do you think the Mini would be a good enough upgrade from a CSL Elite? I asked my local distributor for the Mini and Alpha prices and with the GT1 wheel theres like a 500 usd difference. I know about "buy once, cry once" but I guess anything above 8NM would be enough for me... The question is in how much detail I'll be missing out on.
500 is a lot i dont think its worth it how much does the mini costs? i assume the mini is 600+ and the alpha is 1100+ ? If i were in your position i would either buy the mini or look at another base like asetec,simucube,moza R16 but i dont think is 500 dollard better
@@tkdmp5698 the mini + GT1 wheel is 1650 usd + 21% vat... It's quite expensive and I could get a used Fanatec CSL DD Pro for 800 USD but there's no official support from Fanatec and I'd rather risk more money but having official support from the official Simagic distributor here than be left to my own luck with a used Fanatec wheelbase.
Honestly the detail is all there …. Clipping occurs when u hit Curb and the full power of the base is lower in that instant. But the force still come through with a strong hit but JUST not as violent. I would not get the gt1 wheel …. Too big and heavy. If u want a round wheel GTS is way more responsive and cheaper also haha. And then save up to get the Neo with the Alpha mini. I tried Iracing with 1nm force setting on my wheel and was so light and then I went to 8nm and then mini felt amazing and perfectly possible to use it and feel the power. But the mini goes up to 13nm and can feel everything and at clipping no useful information as the big hit can be seen and felt on the wheel and on screen. What do people expect to feel a kerb smash ?? … gain 0.2 second from the car jumping in the air over it as it clips the full violent movement !!
There are two versions of the alpha (non mini) too. Never version is shorter and the psu is lower power rated. The electornic cover got shorter on the never version and the shaft got longer. The older one base length is 188.5 mm and the never one is 179 mm without the shaft. My question is which version do you have?
@@peterenis4752 No one did any measurements and making claims…. Variations in units can happened and some people with v1 upgrade and says it is too weak. No one did what I did to settle the debate and prove with video the actual power readings and they keep talking like bunch of silly politicians. V3 is just as good and if anything more efficient and my PSU is 236w and gives 19 Nm. So I think 218w can easily give 13 NM
@@peterenis4752 With so much competition in the 10-15nm range do u think simagic would degrade there product ??? That is the most stupid thing I heard. Aseteck … Fanatec…. Cammus … moza all fighting to win business from Simagic and they decide to make the product worse in the most fierce market segment ?? NO I don’t think they are that stupid.
@@Max__apex Seems liek they did do anyway. New V3 is shorter, lighter, and from what you can read from many people it doesnt feel for more then 10nm. People having moza R9 doesnt feel like it is rly stronger. V1 in the reviews people was saying that it feel stronger then R12. So...
This test can be useful about knowing how powerful the motor is, but it does not guarantee that games can send this much torque. Max torque from the games can just be limited to 15nm via software. I compared my Moza R9 to an Alpha Mini v3 and if I increase the game FFB by 11% with Moza R9 it felt similar to the Mini in terms of power (with more clipping of course). So 9nm vs 10nm looks valid for those.
I think the games clips on big forces and maximum force is send to the wheel….. I can confirm max torque is too much power. And very violent. Mini power review coming out. I have tried 8-9nm bases and the mini power is a lot more. In fact a lot of RU-vidrs said Mini beats the r12 easily in power so adding it all up I think Mini is perfect base. Alpha is for fun and laughs. Ultimate is stupid too buy. Same ffb as mini but more top end
@@Max__apex Yeah I've seen those R12 comparisons and thought the Mini would be enough for me but it wasn't as strong as I hoped (I'm replacing with Alpha). I mean if it feels stronger than R12 then it should feel much stronger than R9 right? But that was not the case. Dan Suzuki was the one who said that and the problem is he is not using the latest v3 version of the Mini in his review. Latest Mini is a bit smaller and looks different at the edges. So my theory is Mini is limited to 10nm now either by the software or hardware.
@@Max__apex Hey, can you tell me what's the wattage of your Alpha v3? I just received an Alpha v1 and it's 252W (36V x 7A). Do you know if there is any difference between v1 and v3 other than the shape?
So I did purchase the ultimate but i couldnt pass it up! I paid 1278 with the neo! Lol Figure hey go big with the full oc setup. Def isnt needed will be using it at 30% but should give me a ton of dynamic range.
@@Max__apexnope just got to good of a deal to pass up. Its going to replace my dd+ the thing about that extra nm which you should be happy you got the alpha. Because that will allpw the spikes and details to come through and not clip. And this will further accentuate that even in lower settings. Due to the overall torque those spikes and details can reach more of a peak. Thats just how it works. But i just couldnt help myself again even if I use it at 35% thats fine. Also when you get those settings dialed in that Jerky motion won't happen as much. I've found interpelation at 4 or 5 and smoothness on 1 is pretty nice helps with ffb noise and vibrations where they shouldnt be and allows for those details to still come through since the smoothness is set to 1. If you need to use some dampening you can up to you I don't. Tbh I can usually get unwanted effects gone with the interpelation setting and smoothness I just don't like going to high on the smoothness. Also the mini doesn't have much dynamic range lol. It's great but it def lacks the finer details the alpha and the ultimate have.
@@reviewforthetube6485 The difference in detail was exactly the same between Alpha and ultimate I tested…. The forces are the same until clipping. The motors are more then capable of outputting the SINE curves and do it in sync with each other unless a super heavy load is on the shaft. I feel people read too much into and a lot is mind game. Boosted media said the FFB was the same and couldn’t tell the difference even with the Mini at lower settings so make of that what everyone will. I think anything above the Mini is pointless …. Clipping is not gonna slow anyone down. Dan Suzuki tested the Mini to try and overheat it and so was constantly driving in clipping red area and he also said that it surprised him that his lap times were not affected. This makes sense as the clipping force is opposite to the rear slip force and also opposite to the tire slip decrease force
@@Max__apex listen I already own a 15nm base. I have it for my console use I wanted a pc base only wnd went with the ultimate. I got it for literally only 200 more then the alpha so yeah I am happy I chose it. I have the overhead and I don't have to worry about clipping when using at the 14 to 15nm point. You may use only 45% but I wouldn't be. We are all different and for me the ultimate was the right choice purely because of the slight price bump and the fact I didn't want 2 15nm bases. I just wanted to get the best simagic has to offer and I'm happy I did. Even if I won't max it out. Also dan tested a v2 the v3s like yoyrs has smaller lip edges. The new v3 minis are not as powerful. It's all over reddit right now just go over to it. Peolle comparing there old ones with new ones all state it's noticeable. So it's good you went alpha I was trying to tell you that you made a good choice that's all. If you look at your base you will notice the edges are smaller not as deep of a lip the v2s all had deeper lips this was across the entire lineup. It's nice to see that they kept using the same motor for the alpha and ultimate. Maybe the choice was down to the mini taking to much sales? Give peoppe a reason to upgrade? Idk but when people on reddit are talking about there mini not being enough power that's saying something when they then have a v2 right next to them they can test. Regardless you made a good choice. We aren't all the same, we don't all use the same power or settings. Some people don't have to understand it. Also remember most of these youtubers tell peoppe what they msy need or not need but they all sit there st the end of the day maining 20 to 25nm bases set lower. So idk I get the argument consumers don't need it but if the price is that close I'm going for it.
@@Max__apexit was only $200 more why wouldn't I buy it in the US? Actually with shipping and taxes I got a deal with a 10% discount so it was even less.
Unlike the other brands. Simagic under states their specs just like the better car marques. In contrast Moza exaggerates theirs. You can tell clearly which companies have integrity.
It never went below 15kg…. That was me letting the wheel return because I let the force off. It held above 15kg until I get tired. I didn’t want to damage it by doing experiments for hours on end. But easily 10-15 mins at 15kg holding possible. Maybe more but i didn’t want to due science experiments for RU-vid and if anything happeneds then my fault and RU-vid don’t buy me a new one. It never went below 15kg
@@Max__apex that's insane never expected that. Most bases do not do that. That's absolutely incredible. It's holding torque must be insane then. Like even asetek is only 40 seconds.
@@Max__apex yep! Remember I hit you up on your other video told you I found out my alpha had issues and it was also settings. Didn't realize how good it was until I got it fixed. So I wasnt even getting the right experience. Now I am! I ordered the ultimate tbh for my pc rig it's def not needed but I'm happy with it and my dd+ will be back up. So I'm hype af and yeah def blown away by simagic. I play acc, f1 2023 which is what I call my fun title. It's just purely fun and really enjoyable. F1 2024 is coming out the 1st also! So that's cool. I also play OG AC. And of course iracing. Rf2 and raceroom are pretty good also. Btw the dd+ is still incredible for something from fanatec. But there is this feeling to simagic this flowy feel that they can't match. It's because fanatec has like always dampening on even when it's off its a dampening they have built in with even turning all settings off so it has this more drag feel to it Didn't realize how far simagic software has come. It's so so good it's even better then it was 8 months ago which I'm shocked by how much detail I'm getting out of the ultimate.
Did you use default settings? I was told by simagic they wrre designed from there testers and real life drivers. I should have tried it because now going back to that I absolutely love my alpha. I tried adjusting to my preference and coumdnt find the spot I wanted its the only brand that has settings imo perfect when in default.
I take all the fake filters off that are not from the game. Will put them below. The games has tire interia and friction from the tire model physics. You can see this when parked on the tarmac and turn the wheel. So my question is why introduce extra effects on top ?? So I have them at zero. Mechanical friction, interia and damping all zero. Ffb detail 15-17 Smoothness 1 or 2 Rotation speed 70-90 Ffb details 8 and smoothness at 1 or 2 This give games physics and great detail no fake filters
@Max__apex oh wow you have the speed high. Didn't expect that but ok cool man. May check them out later. How is the notchy feel if you have any at smoothness 1 or 2? Anything you feel in the middle? I may run it loeer instead of at 4.
@Max__apex I can see why you like simagic so much more then fanatec has almost an always on dampening effect it's got good details but not as lively when pushing out the raw forces. Very good with weight and feel and details again but the simagic feels more raw for sure.
@@reviewforthetube6485 There is not notchy feeling with smoothness at 1….. maybe that is my Iracing settings I am talking about. In ACC I use in game zero canned effects. The road surface makes the wheel really lively. I turn road effects off as that is excessive suspension settings and too much information. And dynamic damping to zero I think. I try to get use to more raw side then fake effects to smooth the steering feel. But I do use really super super Low damping on 1-3% if it is too lively sometimes but I try not to. In the middle my wheel is smooth and motor is silky. But road bumps are transmitted for sure but if suspension is on then it’s too much even for me.
Do it dont think about it. Just do it. Even me I own a new dd+ well come to find out I was having a few issues with my alpha just because of me. Was my fault and now I went back to it dialed everything in and omg it's perfect. I even prefer it over the dd+ so yeah go for it and enjoy. It will blow your mind. No more rubbing sounds either or friction. 😊
@@reviewforthetube6485Cheers and good to hear you prefer it even over the DD+. Can I ask what we're the settings you dialled in and which SIM title you mostly use?
@Wilayaat it was the interpelation and the smoothness setting. I turned interpelation up and smoothness down so I found that balance and the detail just popped off the game. Amazing stuff. Interpelation works different on the simagic compared to dd+ had to lower it on the dd+ the INT setting. So yeah the two brands use it differently.
What's the point, it's more than you can force turn while sitting down anyway (at least for me, don't know how ripped you are xd)... enough to overpower you should be a good metric xd
most people enjoy under 15nm and even people who hav e top end 25nm bases use them at lower setting but they still benefit from the wheelbase providing better feedback than mid range wheelbases.
