May I ask you what will happen if I used my 48V Lestronic II battery charger to charge my 12V car battery? Will it help desulfate the 12V car battery? Or will just over charge the battery and kill the battery? Or will it damage the 48V Lestronic II battery charger?
Gel type batteries are Lead Acid batteries but generally charge to a slightly lower voltage than Flooded type Lead Acid. At least that is my understanding.
We did actually burn an equivalent amount of petrol and while it released more energy it was much less dramatic. This is why LiNCM batteries need a really good BMS and QC.
I'm running my 3.2Kw solar system with 24V battery pack. I have 2 lead acid batteries (12V, 185ah each) in series. Selfmade 24V lithium battery pack of 200ah capacity... I'm using both packs in parallel... It's giving too much satisfying results...
I believe Motenergy has a specific motor for that, I have one (don't recall the model number but it's like a ME1616) with a Sevcon Size6 80V in my ridiculously overpowered golf cart. It can do wheelstands on the tarmac ;)
Geez, this really makes me miss my Rider 155. No modern zero turn compares to that thing. Can't find anything like it in the US anymore. Seriously considered doing an electric motor conversion to it too... Nice work.
Hey there! Looking to connect and talk about purchase options for your lithium powered structural protection pump system. Reached out on your website Contact Me a couple of times. Can you check the spam filter and get back to me. Cheers!
You should NOT leave a LIthium battery connected to a powered Lead "smart" charger for a longer period of time, as that could either damage the lithium or make the BMS disconnect. A lithium charger charging a lithium and a lead in paralell is less of a problem I think. And he does say he's using a lithium charger. .... If the lead is old/faulty it could overheat and vent (or explode). I think some chargers has external temperature sensor to guard against that.
No tests, but I'm in the process of doing this on my boat with two consumer banks (like you show, but 2 off) and one starter Lead. I've probably been watching 20 hours of youtube videos on this specific subject, and I'm an electronics engineer. And at the moment it looks like I will basically end up doing the same you're testing out here. ...... Lead chargers has intermittent a bit too high voltages in their later charging cycles, which, depending on the Lithium BMS could cause problems. I have exploded one old lead battery by the way, that's thoroughly tested, but the charger didn't have an external temperature sensor in that case (as most don't have).
@@finnerutavdet When you have done the actual testing and found the actual problems perhaps you can report back. This is scientific and engineering method. To date I have not found any real issues but that is certainly not to say that there aren't any, esp. given the variety of chargers out there.
They can do if that is all that is connected to the car alternator. This is due to two factors: 1) The electronic control system (BMS) can instantly disconnect the battery and cause a voltage spike damaging the alternator diodes. 2) Low internal resistance in the battery can result in high alternator charge currents causing overheating, esp. at low speeds. If the Lithium battery is a secondary battery (with a lead acid start battery) connected via a dual battery isolator then most times it is perfectly safe.
I have 2 lipo4 12v 280 ah tied to 10 of those 6 volt lead acid battery.. my charger is a 2 cyl kubota diesel engine with a gm 254 amp 12 volt alternator.. if I only have lipo4, my alternator would get destroyed from overvolting when lipo4 bms shut off at full charge and maybe cause damage to the inverter. When it's too cold, the lipo4 shuts off, and the lead keeps everything going. Also, the engine starter draws amps hard, so the lead helps level that out. It's working out very well so far.
That is a very good point and my experience also. Lithium BMS can shut off when the batteries near full charge. This can be very hard on charging sources. Lead acid in parallel will absorb any voltage spikes.
Please help...If you have no solar and are idle, eg no alternator power charging....could you not just put a mains12v supply on the alternator side of your renogy 50a Dc to Dc charger to mimic the 12v supply from your car battery...this way you have a quality lithium phosphate charger within the Renogy Dc toDc charger...is this an idea...thanx in advance....
the chinese , others etc dont want people to know you can combine lead with lithium together, when you do this as many people with home boats have already done, lithium will do the work when not charging at night, and keep the lead up in voltage . Rule is always keep lead charged up and have more lead battery volume than lithium. i would also make sure batteries are in outside inside of brick enclosure area for fire prevention.
A lot of people have been messing around with connecting lead and LiFePO4 together for several years now, but to be frank it just isn't a good idea. In an emergency? Sure. For regular use? No. Sure, the LiFePO4 battery can tolerate just about anything in its voltage range, probably for years. But remember... that LiFepO4 battery is expensive, and is supposed to last 15+ years. Considering the investment, you really want to keep that LiFePO4 battery in optimum condition. And that means NOT paralleling it with lead. In anycase, it really is the easiest thing in the world to put the lead on a separate charge controller. This is doubly true if the lead is only being used as a starter battery or something like that. If you don't have anything pulling a high number of amps all the time, then a cheap low-amperage DC-to-DC charge controller will keep the lead in tip-top condition and do it with relatively high efficiency. A 12V-to-12V charge controller runs roughly 90% efficiency. It gets even better if you decide to use a higher voltage lithium "home" bank. Then you can charge your lead from the home bank with a cheap buck-only charge controller (97% efficiency). Something like a Victron 75/15 (24V home bank to 12V lead), or Victron 100/20 (24V/48V home bank to 12V/24V lead), for example. Perfect if you don't need to charge the lead at more than around 15A. There are many, many advantages to using a higher-voltage lithium-based home bank. In anycase, there are lots of options and lots of topologies. There is no need whatsoever to parallel the lead with the lithium and maintain neither of them optimally. -Matt
@@ev-power With all due respect, connecting the batteries together for a few hours, days, or even weeks and then calling it a day is completely meaningless when it comes to determining whether you are putting excessive wear on a LiFePO4 battery or not. What did you think would happen? A big red light turns on and admonishes you? The LiFePO4 battery has protection built into it. It will not let you mess it up so badly that it stops working entirely. But that protection does NOT protect against excessive wear due to bad setups. These batteries are expensive and they should last at least 15 years and only have lost roughly 20% of their capacity at that time. You don't want to plop down that kind of money only to find 5 years down the line that your battery has lost 30% of its capacity due to cycling and sloshing, because you couldn't be bothered to spend $100 on a DC-to-DC charge controller to separate the lead out. -Matt
I've tested it and am testing it for months already. When you have done the same you can come back to me and we'll compare notes. Please, empirical evidence, not hypotheses. @@junkerzn7312
@@ev-power You don't get it. You AREN'T TESTING IT. What exactly do you think is going to happen in the failure case? Tell me that. What exactly do you think is supposed to happen? What are you testing FOR? Going by your video, you aren't testing for anything other than the LiFePO4 battery not outright failing on you. Have you done any capacity tests? Have you characterized the wear rate? Have you done any accelerated cycling so, YOU KNOW, you don't have to wait 5 years to find out that it didn't work as well as you would have liked? No, you aren't. You are just throwing the batteries into a system and messing around with it a little then calling it a day. Are you even adhering to the LiFePO4 battery's safety specs? What is the paralleling limit for that particular battery? Look it up. It's approximately N x Ah in amps (so a paralleling limit of 4 for a 100Ah battery is basically that the BMS can protect against a 400A dump and still disconnect before something catches on fire). Now, how many amps will that lead-acid battery dump if it gets shorted? That's just one of several issues. How about the charge target? Are you charging the LiFePO4 battery to its full vendor-specified target? Because if you AREN'T doing that due to the voltage being too high for the lead-acid battery, there is a good chance that the LiFePO4 battery's internal balancing circuits aren't even activating and you are slowly letting the battery go out of balance over time. Is the lead acid battery going to stay healthy without equalization? Because, you know, you can't put an equalization voltage on those paralleled batteries without overcharging the LiFePO4. Come on. Learn something about the batteries you are throwing together before you make a video like this.
You may find this interesting - this comment is from another YT channel, on the same subject. Quote (boatelectricaldiy) I'm a marine professional and I won't install lifepo4 without it being directly in parallel with a lead acid battery. I have left a 300ah LiFePO4 hooked to a lead acid battery for months and the lead acid was full and the LiFePO4 was at 98%
I really appreciate that you were honest about not knowing! The general answer you get in the industry is just "no" because it's easier than a "yes but...". I personally think it's not a problem for low current applications, but should be avoided for high current applications as the Peukert exponent is very different between the two.
Peukerts Exponent only relates to the (dis)charging efficiency and therefore State of Charge estimation. So as long as you don't require super accurate SOC then low or high current makes no difference. My system is still connected and still going fine. IMO there could be some advantages in cranking applications using a small high power SLA battery in combination with a light weight high energy LFP battery. I've not seen it done yet, might try it on my van one day.
And if the cell was completely discharged - nothing would happen! Folks - PLEASE DISCHARGE YOUR LI-ION BATTERIES BEFORE TAKING THEM TO THE RECYCLERS. . Use a 20 ohm resistor across the terminals overnight to discharge it fully. This way we won't have fires in transit or in resource recovery plants.
I run a 48v offgrid system with 28Ah of lithium split between two packs on one sled connector along with 10Ah of lead acid, allows me to hot swap my lithium packs without needing to power off my inverter loads
My experience with lipo4 and c- 10 lead acid tubular in parallel for my solar back up system is much exciting. When 7.2kwh lipo4 was connected without the tubular la battery, the lipo4 suddenly gets shutoff due to bms gets into protection mood at fully charged during day time and at low battery during discharge at night. In that situation the system was found not functioning smoothly. But after connection of 3.6kwh tubular la in parallel to lipo4, the problem of sudden shutting off of lipo4 due to bms, gets resolved and the functioning of system become flawless and smoother. Tubular la battery sits at full charged all along in most of the time and only lipo4 takes all the burdens of charging and discharging without shutting down the system . Two separate individual charg / discharge monitor have also been connected for both the lipo4 and tubular for monitoring the inter battery flow of current if occurred, but in last 60 days there are not such inter battery flow occurred. Back up also improved up to 8 kWh from battery backup for round the trip system backup.
@@mashun-o4d Hi, Charging and discharging parameters of both lead acid and lifepo4 batteries are almost same. But a normal inverter has its own over voltage and lower voltage limits which are designed to be compatible for lead acid batteries of different type like tubular, flat or SMF . Therefore this limits of the charger/inverter will not perfect for the BMS parameters of the lifepo4 batteries. Now as the charging and discharge parameters of a lifepo4 battery come in between the upper side voltage limit and lower side voltage limit of lead acid battery , a set of lead acid batteries in parallel to lifepo4 main storage batteries will help to keep the normal inverter (Solar CPU) working smoothly when the BMS get into its protection mode during operation. I have my off grid solar system with Luminous solarverter pro 3 kW. using 200 ah 36 volt lifepo4 main storage batteries and a parallel setup of 100 ah lead acid c10 batteries set to make the operation smooth and working for last years of hassle free service.
@@apurbakumar9910 thanks. I use ashapower inverter and thought of adding lifepo4 to my existence 24v lead acid battery in parallel. Im glad yours is working good. I will do the same in the future with good bms for lifepo4 and use fuse, mcb between parallel connection of lead and lithium.
I'm wanting to connect my nissan leaf powerwall with my lifepo4 powerwall. I know I'll have to reconfigure my packs but if you have any idea which way would be best please let me know. It's It's 24 volt system
Interesting test … so my conclusion would be if you don’t let the lithium battery go completely flat ( say less than 10v ) the ctek should be able to charge it ?
Good test. I just bought a Shorai lithium iron sulfate battery for my motorcycle. I have a Deltran Battery Tender that I used to maintain a charge in my Harley battery. I was hoping to use this charger to maintain a charge on the lithium. So if a lithium battery is not completely dead, and has 12+ volts, do you think 1) a conventional lead acid charger will work to maintain a 13.8+ voltage? 2) Do all lead acid chargers have this desulphation feature and can this feature cause a lithium battery to fail?
What you did, was already dangerous enough - it may have had an impact, that this was practiced on a very large type of battery, but in my case i was tryin to charge a dead Braille G9 LiFePo4 Battery, very light and small and only 5 Ah and also with a CTEK charger. Well, 15 minutes after connecting (and I was lucky not to stand in front of it) the thing blew up very loud and with lots of dense smoke. Like I said, could be much less of a problem with larger batteries, but such thing never happened with flatlined lead-acid batteries. Please be careful if your LiFePo Battery is on low voltage!!!
What I did was not dangerous at all. Do not charge a DEAD (ie zero volts) LiFePO4 battery with ANY charger ! A dead LFP battery can be dangerous if you try to charge it normally for sure, esp. if you put a relatively large charge current relative to the capacity of the battery, which would appear to be exactly what you did.
What pump and motor did you use? I have a small electric tug boat and I'm looking to upgrade my FiFi system to something this size using a DC motor. Ideally I'll run it off 48vdc as that is my propulsion motor power and has the largest reserves.
I looked at CTek charger documents graphs... Lead acid/AGM charges at 14.4-14.7V CTek XS LiFePO4 charges at 13.8V Which raises questiions that using in a vehicle being charged by alternator designed for lead acid will overcharge a Lithium longterm Even manufacturer of Lithium battery describes it as a STARTER battery and draws question that it is not truly a L.A. replacement and certainly should never be used in an engine bay where exposed to heat
I just looked too. The charger you refer to charges to 14.4V then drops to float 13.8. LA AGM and Gel are very similar. So that argument does not really stack up. My question is, if you are skeptical, how about you test your theories before advising others? I'm testing stuff every day and try to only pass on what I know to be true in my experience.
