I slowly bought all the Veritas chisels. They have been amazing to use. I did manage to break a handle whacking way to hard on chisel, Lee Valley sent me another chisel (I had actually called to see if they had a schematic so I could turn my own).
I had the exact same issue. Only the wanted my broken one back. Which is fair. But I wanted to keep it. So a guy I know turned me a whole set of handles from Padauk and Ebony
Proud to see tools from our country get around the world. I bought three of these (1", 3/4", 1/2") mid pandemic and filled out the rest of the sizes with their regular steel premiums. Now they cost significantly more then they used to during the coof. Great chisels though.
Good video, and good comparison. I like my Narex chisels. So I am glad to see that the comparison was so close. I went with the Narex chisels the last time I upgraded my chisels, from the blue handled Irwin chisels that I still think are not that bad, not something I would want to work with day in day out, but good for a hobbyist. Though I got the Narex chisels mostly because of availability. I started with buying 2 of them, the 1/2 and 1/4, which are the 2 most common I use. 1/2 inch because of how I usually layout dovetails and 1/4 for mortising. Though I do have 1/4 mortising chisel as well (from Narex), Though for the stuff I do, it seems as a bench chisel works just about the same, sometimes even better but let's call it the same. I am sure I would appreciate the difference if it was not just a hobby. But if a project has you making 16-20 mortises, using a bench chisel is good enough. The relative closeness does not surprise me, the plane blades I have in PMV-11 are better than the A2 cryo blades that I have, and if you gave me a choice I would take the PMV-11 option with it's slightly higher price tag any day. It seems to stay sharper longer, and it is a little easier to sharpen, though both sharpen very quickly.
Deff agree the pmv did perform better. I was really just hung up on the price for a hobby woodworker. Profesional pmv all the way!!! Thank you for sharing! I think imma do the same fill in my set with some narex if I find the need. If I hit the lottery then yes pmv hahahha
I really really wanted to go PMV-11 for a set of dedicated paring chisels but couldn’t justify the cost. I went with the Narex on sale and I’ve been quite pleased with the keenness and ability to get into corners.
I agree. I am a big fan of Veritas but I think that money is better spent on a hand plane where there is a notable performance difference compared to chisels where you can buy very good chisels that are very reasonably priced.
The Narex handle looks a lot larger- surprisingly only 1/16” bigger around. I have the cheaper Narex set. Have bought my 2 most common used in Veritas, and wish I would have taken more bottles in, and bought the full set. Great review, very non biased.
I bought the Narex. This video helped me decide. I watched it before I ordered the Richter set, unhandled. I saved even more money because I'll be making my own handles out of various hardwood offcuts and scraps. Paid $168 for the set, which comes with ferrules and leather washers. That's a very nice savings off of the $600 Veritas chisels. I have time on my hands to make the handles and dial them in to fit my hands just right.
When I needed chisels I got the Narex partly due to cost, but lee valley was also out of the PMV-11 at the time. They have been good chisels. I’m currently building a pair of bookcases out of maple. Eight total legs, and each leg needs six dados to notch in the shelves. Each dado is 3/8 deep and I’ve been hand cutting all of them. Of course I’ve had to make some trips to the stones, but the Narex have performed admirably. If funds permit I may buy a couple PMV-11 in the same sizes so I can do rough work with the Narex and have the others for fine finishing. If you’re on a budget, I don’t see that the LV is twice as good as the Narex. Be sure to spend the time flattening the backs and honing them before use and they should be fine for most home woodworkers.
I agree and thank you! I am happy to hear the narex are performing well for you. I also like the idea of buying omv 11 here and there. Vs the entire set at once!
Thanks for another great video. Veritas advices you to use a file and break the corners, except for the last inch or inch and a half, to prevent you for cutting yourself - which I none the less often do because I hold the chisel near the edge.
The maroon scotch brite works nice for breaking sharp edges. I used this on my Narex mortise chisels, as they had very sharp edges, but didn't need to on my PMV-11 chisels.
IMHO there is also a sharpening difference to consider. Veritas do take a little longer to hone and that adds to their cost over the years depending on how you value your time. For those of us who live in the deep south (South of I-10) it would be interesting to see if there are differences in rusting by humidity hanging in the garage ... Which effectively hurts edge keenness.
That is a good point and I am actually testing out sharpness, how long to sharpen, edge retention, etc. as we speak. I have 10 plane irons and 32 chisels (including these ones). I will also be able to check the rust factor, here in PA its a struggle lol i am not waxing them when put them down between tests to see if any stand out. not a big test on rust but i will note it if anything stands out!
Okay watched your chisel comparison..... couple of notes.... the Veritas chisels are designed specifically for dovetails and paring operations. So that bevel edge can and will cut you. Rather easily. I've been bit by it many times and didn't even know it some of those times. I agree that for general purpose chisels they're fairly close. Which is why I have a set of the cheaper Narex, not the richters. But that sharp bevel edge, even without doing dovetails, shines in mortises for latches and hinges and such. 2nd point of interest.. because there is less edge damage and it holds that edge for such a long time.... for someone like me that uses them daily; that means fewer sharpenings, which in turns means the steel lasts longer. So over the course of time, that chisel will be the same price as buying multiple sets of the others. It allows me to be more productive because of less downtime. And lastly, when honed up nice, with a secondary bevel, that veritas chisel will glide through just about anything, including that curly oak, with very little effort and without a mallet most if the time. I thought I'd weigh in here, because while I don't have the richter set, I do own and use both the Veritas and the Narex chisels daily. The Narex shines as a "beater" chisel. But I'm getting close to replacing them for another set because the don't hold up as well over time. Love the chisel. Outshines even the best box store chisel. Has it's own place in my arsenal. But doesn't come close to the veritas, through the wide array of work I do.
I have both but only two of each. Narex comes in a 3 mm which is great for cleaning around dovetails. The Veritas chisels are great for bashing out mortises.
I bought the regular narex 4 piece chisel set before the Richters were out. Not long after that, I bought the regular narex 4 piece mortise chisels. The price of each set was around 60 to 70 dollars. I like them alot but honestly the handles are a bit clunky. I also have a set of harbor freight chisels and an older set of Irwin chisels. Like Rob Cosman says, always buy the best tools you can afford, and that makes sense. When you get the cheap ones you end up buying more because they break or because you want better quality. Great video.
I recently bought the narex ritcher chisels and they were a game changer in sharpness compared to the junk Jorgensen I was trying to use before. That being said they are cumbersome at best to use. They're long and unbalanced and as far as ergonomics go they're just not designed well. BUT for 300 bucks cheaper it's a trade off I'm willing to endure. I do think they could of designed them better and it probably wouldn't of been an issue of production cost. But what do I know.
Agree the Richter's are great "budget" high quality chisels. I have mostly pmv11 for my quality chisels, but grabbed a Richter 1/8 as it's not one I use often, but don't want it to suck when I do need it. I think if you have substantial disposable income, the veritas are worth the substantially higher cost. If you're tight on cash, the Richter does about the best per dollar spent out there. But even on a tight budget, I'd get the Richter set, then add the 1 or 2 must used chisel sizes in pmv11. Always good to have multiple of the heavy hitters, and why not have really nice chisels for those final details, even if you use the pretty good ones to get close? I have quite a few sets of chisels. I like to have them around you clean up glue and other beater operations. I have the old school maples, as well as the newer crappier Irwin version, the Aldi chisels, the regular narex, and an assortment of other misc brands, skew chisels, etc. But the veritas are always my preferred grab, plus the Richter when I need the 1/8"
Very valid points here!!! I agree! Pmv11 deff performed better, no doubt about that and you don't have to buy them all at once. Richter for less used sizes then omv11 for most used sizes. Love it! Thank you for sharing! Also agree about beater chisels and Rands oms eta for random things. Great practice to save the better chisels from damage
I’ve never used a narex richter chisel but if I’m not mistake I believe they have a leather dampener or whatever it’s called. That being said it could t be a socket chisel if this is true
It does but it also had a tang, it's interesting. If you Google narex richters they also sell them unhandled so you can see the construction without the handle
I really wanted to like the Narex chisels, particularly when 99% of the internet recommend them. But I have small hands and I just couldn’t get past their size. Comfort is vital. Tried the Ashley Iles, but they’re a bit heavy. Bought an IBC chisel, but their handles are way too thick. I was recently in the U.S. and tried Woodcraft’s bench chisels and they were very comfortable, but I questioned the quality. I also got to try the Lie-Nielsens and they were perfect in size and feel, but of course they’re expensive. In the end, I figured if I have to pay premium prices for comfort, being in Canada, I ended up going with Veritas. I find your comparison videos really helpful, thank you!!
I have a full set of narex richter. They are great maybe more awesome. But I don’t like the look of the blade. The chrome look type look cheap for me. My opinion only but other than looks. It perform way beyond what I can do with them. But for future chisel I will get the pm-V11 just because I love that steel. Like other said in other comments. Hard torrified maple ain’t a good choice for wood handle. My veritas mortise chisel split just after 6month of occasional use. Thanks for the reviews! Great video as always!
I think once you get over that Rc60-61, you really start to see the mode of failure become chipping instead of rolling or denting. I dont' have any V11 chisels but I have about a dozen and half of their various plane blades if not slightly more. They are long lasting but dont tend to be able to get super sharp (it's good enough for most finish). V11's are a SOB to sharpen on some mediums such as oil stone (my preferred). They seem to do better on water stone, but I hate having to soak clean and flatten so it's not really my preferred sharpening method. They are master at durability but not really at anything else. I have about 150 or so vintage chisels. The Swedes still seem to be able to make them the sharpest (but softer) and the English stuff like older marples, woodcock, and ward seem to be slightly harder and a good compromise between durability, sharpness and ease of maintenance. Personally, I think that if you are great at edge touchups, it's better to keep your tools sharp by sharpening often (30 seconds at most) instead of hoping it last for 1/2 a day.
I agree! Touch ups are the best! I keep a high grit stone or a strop close by and freshen the edge every so offten. It helps alot! I also get what you are saying about oil stones vs water stones and pmv11 steel. I like using ceramic stones and diamonds with pmv11, just faster with that steel type.
@@BatCaveCreations I use diamond and ceramic if I have to go V11 as well. I think it's the powdered metal that gives it that kind of wear characteristics. David Weaver seems to have figured out that they will do okay with Washitas (still slow). I've been going diamond, ceramic and then Lee Valley green compound on a flat planed softwood cross grain. I've not really tried it with white compound (diamonds) as I have a cheaper bar that has inconsistent grain sizes. I don't want to risk taking out deep scratches on a V11, just too much work. Might experiment it one day if I find something that requires flattening anyhow. I am lazy to the max. If I can do the primary with a belt grinder/sander then just hone the secondary, that's what I will do all day long. But since the back requires much more precision, I am gonna be more careful with not ruining it.
@MintStiles I get you for sure! For a long time I use one leopard washita and a strop. Then switched to diamond and ceramic for youtube lol I get you about the back tok. Primary and secondary can be redone. The back.... I deff don't wanna mess that up either. To much work to fix haha
It’s only a chisel. What difference does the extra price make? If you can get a chisel sharp enough and it’s ok to sharpen with your system and it keeps an edge and is comfortable then you have achieved your goal. I bought a set of boxwood handled Sorby dovetail chisels decades ago. They work fine. I bought Narex recently and they are harder and keep an edge longer. I have a Worksharp so honing takes a few seconds with the Sorby and a few more seconds with the Narex. Paul Sellers reckons the supermarket chisels he uses are fine. So buy the cheaper ones and use the difference for a nice plane where cost makes a big difference.
I definitely don't need them all but it was easiest to compare them that way. I mean you know me I would like to have them all! But you know that like 4 of them were just gonna sit there and I'm really only gonna use 3 lol 😆 😂 😅
I recently bought the box set of Narex chisels and love them. Now I also own a different set that are not the Richkters and they were terrible but I also only paid like $48 for a set of 4.
@@BatCaveCreations no they are light colored like these but very soft metal don’t stay sharp at all. I honestly didn’t realize how bad they were until I got there.Richters
Pmv11 all the way for me. I dont remeber the cost of mine as I've had mine a few years now. My complaint about the narrex richter, is the quality on the ones i bought. They were the early ones so maybe they've gotten better. Issue one, the backs were a banana on the first two. There was almost a 32nd hump about a 1/4" back. I returned that one right away. Secondly the replacement and the other one had a few significant low spots near the edge. Enough thar i just ground it back on my grinder(wet). My lv were actually hollowed from front to back which made it super easy to flatten. Oh and lv recommends you ease over the edges. I only tend to remember this after i draw blood. As for use, i used a 1 /4" & 1/2" richter for about a year and honestly there good, but in real world use, theyre below the top three in every way in my book after usung them extensively. The top 3 being Pmv11, LN, Ashley iles. Thats how ive found these to stack up for me. The Pmv11 and Ashley isles are the easiset to sharpen to a super keen edge, where the ln don't feel as sharp but hold well the same for the richtors. But felt this hype to be just the next best thing. Last i saw the richter were ball park ln pricing, and for me that is a ni brainer, LN. Again this is just my opinion from using these dailly for work. Maybe i got a bad pair, i dont know. But seemed to me these had the same quality control issues as everything else they sell.
I love this! Thank you for sharing! Now that you mention it, the guy I borrowed the narex from had issues with flattness also. Maybe a few bad batches here and there with then which is a shame. Thank you again!
if you are looking for cheap chisels, you should look after the Narex Premium line. A single chisels costs around $15 including taxes in germany. They certainly do not stay sharp for so long. But edges are sharp, like the egdes of the Richers. I like these sharp egdes for dovetails.
Yes, brown handles and a brass ferrule. My are not polished. The polished chisels has round edges. To be honest, the pmv-11 blade from my low angle jack plane holds the sharpness quite differently.
I have one Narex Richter 1.5”. It took the most part of a work day to flatten the back. Absolute nightmare. Buy a chisel that comes flat on the back. Blue Spruce, Lie Nielsen, or Veritas.
I have two sets of chisels. My old record marples and sons which I have had for years. The one inch is getting a little short. So I picked up the Narex set and couldn’t be happier. I think what did it for me was that I think the Veitas is sockets and I was afraid of damaging them.
There's a big cost differential, but the kicker for me has been that we can now buy the Richter's locally one at a time. They're being a bad influence (the hardware store).
Hm.... that I'll have to try head to head. I haven't done any massive chopping with the Ashley's maybe I'll see if I can borrow these a bit longer and do a comparison with Ashley's.
I have the Richters and enjoy them. My only complaint is they seem a bit top heavy. I imagine the handle on the Richter is a bit heavier than the Veritas due to the size, and wood density. I think the veritas is Torified maple, is that right? I'll likely end up cutting an inch off the top. Curious what your thoughts on the difference in the balance point is.
Great point! Veritas was deff more balanced because part of the chisel goes into the handle helping it balance more. (These were 1", that makes a different too). Veritas is terrified maple. Balance in chisels would be preference. Some like tip havy, some handle, some want perfect balance. All of that changes with the size of the chisel too. Make em your own! Change them to the balance you like. I hope that helps!
Theres nothing wrong with Narex and you said it - You can buy another plane with the difference. Veritas and Lea Neilson are pricing themselves way too high these days. Personally I prefer Ashley Isles chisels but then I am British - but they fit my hands better than the others and they work beautifully!!!!
Are you completely sure the spot on the plank of wood where you tested the Richter was very similar to the adjacent spot where you tested the Veritas? I ask because with that wood the hardness and grain orientation changes a lot over short distances and maybe the Richter got unlucky. :)
I just bought some of the unhandled Narex Richters which are sometimes in stock at Taylor Tools. Handles aren't too tricky to make. I love the idea of the Veritas chisels but at that price I would be scared to use them for anything.
I have a set of the Narex Premium chisels that are really nice. I know the Richters are better than the Premiums and the price is great, but I have been dreaming of those Veritas chisels for quite a while. I like really nice tools, and as far as things to collect, tools are relatively cheap. On top of that, the complete PM-V11 set is still WAY below many of the Japanese chisels out there. There, I was able to rationalize purchasing a set of beautiful chisels that I really don't need. Thanks for another great video. It is funny you mentioned using that beautiful wood in the test. I was thinking the same thing: it is way too nice to just ruin.
100% agree!! And Japanese chisels getting VERY expensive haha Yes!!!! I don't think I'll use that wood again but I'll keep using that piece till there is nothing left hahahha Thank you!!!
lucky you do not live in the UK where Veritas prices are far more expensive and rising fast! We no longer even get the option of choosing the custom planes.
Lots of renovated old tools and a very slowly forming pile of Veritas tools. In retrospect a few choice Veritas chisels might have been a better buy some years ago than a roll full of Stanleys. Quality tools in general are in very low supply over here since the pandemic and the prices have skyrocketed, transport, import duties and a 20% tax on top! The combination plane is nowUS $655!, a 3/8 mortice chisel $204. Enjoying your open and honest approach.
I saw the price problems coming and bought as much as I could afford as soon as possible but could not buy much at new prices now... Shame about not getting the chance of a custom plane even if it would have been close to impossible to actually touch the choices of components before purchase here Tried FB when it first started and straight away saw all the problems Zuckerberg claimed not to have seen! This is a rare sighting of me on any platform.
Dang :( they have a shipping service too I'm sure they could get you a custom decked out how you want. I really hope it all goes back down $$ wise. We need more people to enjoy the craft. I get what ur saying about the platforms 100%!!
I’d heard lousy things about those ones as well. I’ve enjoyed the Richters. No doubt there are better ones on the market, including the Veritas, but the Narex represent a good value for the price.
@BatCaveCreations tell me about all the fancy beautiful woods easy to work with. I was working on some spalted maple hand planing and i had to stop and finish with sanding with all the random tearout. I bet it would stand out being oak tho
@BatCaveCreations i like your video i am working with new irwin marples chisels because i got 3 for $30 haha they hold an edge just fine the key to any tool is can you sharpen it or no. If people dont know how to sharpen they are wasting money. New workers should get the cheapest chisels that have good enough steel to practice caring for them not lose their shit when they drop a $100 chisel haha
Veritas is basically socket with tang - the super thick ferrule is conical inside like in japanese chisels - no splitting handles while tang keeps the handle and blade in fixed position for consistent grip. Narex is traditional tang construction.
Why would you be surprised at how good the Narex chisels are, they have been producing quality tools since 1916. If you want to test chisels properly you should use paring end grain as the ultimate test, it will show up a loss of edge quicker than anything.
