WOW....someone out there FINALLY thought of the one thing both of these guys COMPLETELY forgot all about. The bike they would buy WOULD NEVER come with a good pair off clipless pedals. So you're 100% correct. Neither bike they bought could be ridden.
I've never bought a brand new bike. Instead, I go for high grade but used stuff. This has worked well for my enduro MTB and my road bike (which came in well below $4000 with disc brakes, carbon aero frame, Mavic 65mm carbon wheels, wireless SRAM group set etc.). I get that buying used stuff has its inherent risks and drawbacks but if you are willing to scout around and most importantly research the stuff on offer, this is by far the most cost efficient way IMHO. And finally: You can still destroy people with $10k on your $500 bike. Your fitness matters so much more.
Solid picks but I am leaning Jeff on this one. Having a power meter really changed the way I trained. I was able to improve in areas I didn't know I was lacking in. Since I purchased a power meter I have become the second slowest person in the peleton.
Oh come now 🙄Saying that the bike that Jeff picked won the Giro, is like saying your dad's Ford Taurus won Le Mans. The Allez Sprint... the frame you can buy for $1200 USD, was ridden to a USA Pro National Championship by Johnny Brown and Sprinted to a WT Win by Sam Bennet.
@@ChrisRiekert99 You can still find a brand new 2020 model TCR Advanced SL frameset for around 2300$ (and that's "from a Giant retailer" price, so maybe not even the cheapest option out there) which is basically the same as the one Tom Dumoulin used the most on its win at the Giro in 2017. And it is definitely better than the one Menchov was working with in 2009 anyway. (I'll happily concede that smashing his competitors on the TT's with it's Trinity frame did help Tom a good bit) After that you'd need to add the groupset and wheels off course but I believe you can still make it under 4000$ with 105 (the full bundle with the rim brake callipers) and a decent pair of wheels and tubes and tyres. You might even have just enough left for an extra pair of cheap and sturdy training wheels as long as you don't splurge too much on saddle and handlebar. (A good old Deda bar and a prologo Dimension saddle for instance would do the trick quite nicely)
@@ChrisRiekert99 Nope, they were custom hand made in the USA models. Yes the TCR selected here is totally different to the SL model ridden in the grand tours but having owned both there is not a huge difference. I've also currently own an Allez Sprint so I'm no fanboy of any brand.
It has, most recently by Josef Cerny in a breakaway during last years Giro. Considering he’s a TT guy that bike really impressed. It’s more Aero than people think, since wind tunnel testing is BS. Throw in some side wind and your deep section wheels and aero frame start slowing you down 😅
@@NorCalCycling Was even better value a few years ago. I got into cycling in 2017 with a Giant Defy 2 that costs $1900 retail. The same level bike now costs $2600
@@NorCalCycling Touchè, I feel like you had the better upgrades in general, but I still like the platform of the specialized a bit to much to make the switch
For Chris's setup, you can train and race on the carbon wheels since it's disc brake - which means you can sell the wheels the bike came with to recoup some cost!
@@BrianBaileyy in fact, as a part-time colorist, I have to respectfully disagree^^ (to some extent) Like, the overall production value is way beyond what most others offer (GCN excluded, maybe), but the colorgrade on this one in particular seems a little flat and the shadows in particular are a little elevated and slightly mushy. That said, I'm not here for the colors, but for Jeff, Chris and the awesome content they deliver week by week! You guys are awesome - keep it up!
@@wolf.himmler You managed to say my exact feelings in words. A bit more overall con/sat and a higher pivot would help a lot, though this video has higher production quality than the vast majority of youtube videos.
As a featherweight, I'm inclined to go with the full carbon set up + rim brakes. But I think ultimately the aeroed out alu bike would probably still be faster, especially with those supple turbo cottons. Plus, with the super clean Hunt wheels it's gonna be wayyy prettier to look at.
I feel like the same general concepts apply (Wheels/Frames highest priority) but you are really going to have to lean more on the second hand market to save you the cash. Like at the $2000 price point, picking up just the TCR or Allez new would eat your whole budget but would give you a really solid platform to build on down the road (maybe picking up wheels at some point, used/on sale). Alternatively you could just hunt down used bikes and wheels which could give you a super solid race build but would require lots of patience and luck. At $1000 dollars you wont really be able to find a new bike with much more than Shimano Claris or Tiagra if your lucky, which is sort of the floor for components if you are looking into racing, you will get much more performance for your buck just buying an older race bike used at this price point. In the $1000-$2000 range, upgrades beyond the frame or the wheels wont make as much of a performance difference, though comfort things (like the saddle) could help if the saddle that came with the bike is having a large impact on how much you ride.
Chris's bike with jeff's upgrades. When I bought my first bike (2018) I bought a second hand giant propel di2 (valued 4400$ in 2017) with stages power meter and some worn out dura ace wheels for 1500$. The only downside was the wheels (rear was totally worn out both brake area and bearings) So i bought some scirocco campagnolo wheels for 350$, ultegra pedals for 80$ and wahoo bike computer for 200$. there was no scratches on it apart from some small chips from road debris. The sadde was new because the guy that sold it used anotger saddle. All in all 2050$ for a really good training bike. (And some 100$ in tools, tires, tubes, socks, kit) I got new cycling shoes for christmas(old ones was my brothers) Just ordered new helmet and glasses. If I were to upgrade something on my bike right now it would probably be some lighter and more aero wheels/tires or bar tape
This year I upgraded from a Giant Revolt to a Specialized Allez Sprint Disc! Chris wins for validating my purchase! Still gotta upgrade the wheels/tires/socks 😂
Great video guys! But Jeff, wouldn't you have braking surface issues swapping between aluminum and carbon wheels? From what I understand if you use the same pads on aluminum and carbon wheels, little bits of aluminum will end up in the pad surface and then damage the carbon braking surface. That means either swap pads every time you swap wheels or damage your $1300 wheels.
1. Bike - 2nd hand from ProBike Closet ~ $2k 2. Wheels - carbon wheels 2nd hand ~ $1k 3. Professional bike fit will cover saddle and get you in the best position fit to you ~ $180-$350
I would do a mix of both!!! But both are great selections. For me, the Allez Sprint, Chinese Carbon disc wheels (far less risk of failure than a rim brake wheel). 50 mm and 21 mm internal width and Novatec hubs, $500, a quality set of rotors like Shimano Ice for the race wheels, GP 5k's and set them up tubeless. It actually comes with a great saddle for me. Then for power go with the Assioma Duos for 700. (most bikes dont come with clipless pedals -two birds, one stone). 11-25 cassette for race wheels. And still have enough money left over for a a full set up for race day (helmet, socks/shoecovers)
Going with Jeff’s pick because Giant’s frames are awesome and actually their stock wheels are pretty great, too. Even better now they’re coming out with carbon rims to rival Zipp 303 S and the crash replacement for the frames is a game changer. I hear the allez sprint is crazy uncomfortable so idk if someone just starting out will enjoy training on it...
I bought a second hand specialized allez sprint last summer for 1500€ with following specs: - ultegra - Absolute Black oval chainring - stealth carbon wheelset with Vittoria Corsa graphene tires - sworks aero bars - sworks power saddle The bike was in really good condition (frame was 1 year old and the groupset + wheels were 2 years old). The best deals are still on the second hand market in my opinion.
I recommended Hunt in a couch to crit episode for the Allez. Their aluminum rims are about 1400 g and under $500. Great rims for a bike like the base Allez.
The hunts Aero 28 have a listed weight of 1480g but what they don’t tell you is that doesn’t include the rim tape that comes installed, which puts them at 1550g 😠
I'm about to build a bike with the Winspace T1500D frameset and Winspace Hyper 50mm wheelset. I think at this moment this frame and those wheels are by far the BEST bang for your buck you can find. You can have a very good racing bike for a fraction of the price of bigger brands.
You can buy a 2021 TCR that comes with carbon wheels and a double sided power meter directly from giant for 3600. Use the $400 to buy some pedals or something idk
got my allez sprint with a stages power meter and 105 11s for $1000 even, never felt like it has held me back- If anything, It vastly exceeds my physical capabilities. I follow Jeff's mantra of having a nice wheelset with proper tires, and a beater wheelset with all seasons as well. Biggest gains i have felt have been from things like a nice pair of shoes, fresh cleats, nice bibs, quality tires... and of course, position/fit. those little things add up massively. 1500 bucks can go pretty far if you make the right choices, imo.
Picked myself up a pair of Aeolus Pro 5's after being on the fence for a while. All I can say is WOW. Very fast, very smooth, very quiet & effortless riding. And if you get out the saddle and slam it, they feel absolutely rock solid. Side winds will blow you around a bit, but it's a small price to pay for domination on the flats/descents :D Thanks for the recommendation Jeff ;)
I follow Jeff because, like him I think that the cyclist is very important and we need a powermeter to improve this cyclist. Just wanted to add that I bought an entry level bike (canyon Endurace cf 8 at 2000$) with Continental GP 5000 on it.
I use an Ultimate CF SLX, HUNT 62 CARBON AERODYNAMICIST, GP 5000, Garmin rd1100 pedals, and the Garmin 1040 solar for my race set up and Dt-Swiss 1600 for my training wheels.
I friggin hate the rule 28 socks. I used them literally once. they started off fitting fine but during the race as I started to sweat they started falling off and bunched at the bottom. I sent a message to rule 28 and they did not do a refund or help in any way. I had purchased two pairs and knowing that the company has zero customer support and the product fails to perform I wish I had never purchase them. What a waste of money. I tried using them on subsequent rides but now they don’t stay on my leg. They have lost all elasticity. O and since Chris picked rule 28 socks, Jeff gets the win!
Great video! I built a bike with that budget last year and it's pretty much a combo of you guys' picks: -Giant Propel Advanced Disk 2 (previous year's model, $2000) -Hunt 50mm carbon wheels ($1000) -Continental GP 4 seasons tires ($60) -Pro Stealth saddle ($100) -Assioma power meter ($500) -Wahoo Element Bolt computer ($230) Total = $3890. Super happy with this set up, now I might just need to go pick up some latex tubes with the leftover money ;)
Find a hill. Time it. Repeat in successive weeks. There’s your power meter. Newbies are going to read what FTP and all that nonsense is, and then they are going to quit when they realize they can’t sustain 150watts.
@@2XFactor51 this is true but to train at a constant power to get stronger a power meter will help, I also don't think someone will just quit after dropping 4k on a bike.
@@PhelaDurosinmi they didn’t drop 4K on a bike. They dropped 2, and then added upgrades. I absolutely have seen friends of mine pay money like that, ride a bike, maybe ten times, and never get on it again. It’s why a power meter is unnecessary at the beginning. They need to learn to ride first. They won’t see real power returns, that will indicate they could race competitively, at least for 3-6 months. If they followed any reputable training program, it would more likely 6.
Great vid guys. First a disclaimer: I run a little bike shop and sell custom frames, mostly built with a Campag gruppo. 1. Perspective: You can _easily_ spend $4K on a frame. So a full race outfit in that budget is great value! 2. Rim vs disc: For initial outlay, disc chews $$$. Good value for crits though, giving extra speed into corners and not much slower out of corners (they're heavier). So I'd lean toward discs. 3. Wheels. If you can't have a race bike and a training bike, at least have a second set of wheels. Besides, you might even have to swap wheels on race day. 4. Tires: (American vid so American spelling :-) We are spoiled for choice. Conti 4000 and 5000 both excellent. Consider tubeless for the weight saving. Many, many wheels are tubeless ready. 5. Shop upgrades: From what I understood you were both considering the advertised price of each item. You can often get the upgrades and extras as a cheaper package from your Local Bike Shop. Especially true for the saddle, on the off chance that you do need to change it. 6. Bont. The best. And come in multiple widths. I don't sell them. Yet. Others have commented on pedals, so I'll leave that to them :-) Giant. I have a story, and I'm not a Giant dealer. Regular customer comes in for a service. I find the headset doesn't feel good. Never been a problem before, so I open it up ... and find a minute bulge in the CF steerer. For those who don't know, this can lead to a fatality upon failure. The bike was a 10 YEAR OLD Giant Defy. I start talking to Giant, then the local Giant outlet, who make a warranty claim, which Giant ACCEPTED. After a few false starts, a bit of back and forth that took 6 months (they no longer had the correct fork), my customer has now received a 2020 model Giant TCR as replacement!!! So yeah. I think I'd support the Giant choice. [ Before the edit: ] Middle aged 😂🤣😂🤣😂 You kids could kill me!
Just spend 100 pounds more and get giant tcr with slr wheels (1450g) with power meter. Edit: check giant website but Japanese version they have weights listed even of wheels. Also for crit racing there is giant model called tcr slr with ultegra rim ( alloy frame ) but bike weighs at 7.8kg!! Hidden jem. And with porky pr2 wheels(1900g). Change them and you can go down to 7.4 easily.
I like elements of both builds but I'd take Chris's build. Its actually not entirely dissimilar to my current build from less than a year ago, before specialized prices exploded! The Allez Sprint is a good sub, if you can even get one of those today! A 4k subset of my build: new year old 2019 SL6 Tarmac Disk Sport $2152, Zipp 303s carbon wheels $1349 Schwalbe pro one tires $134 (full tubeless capable setup) Zipp SL-70 Aero carbon handlebars $327 (depending on saddle preference would consider trading handlebars for Selle Italia SLR Carbino Superflow or similar) EliteCustom Race Water Bottle Cage X2 $34 Total: $3,992.84 Great video!
Very cool episode. I'd love to see a similar exercise done for climbing packages. These setups seem to be targeting crit and/or flats mainly. But, where weight savings is more important than aero, I'm always looking for the best bang for my bucks on a bike that can get me up the mountain roads (paved, to be clear) the fastest.
I've been riding the new alloy 34's, moderately light and absolutely bulletproof. They have cheap shipping to the US (took 2 days?!), it's amazing bang for the buck.
Allez sprint, metal hunt wheels, gp5000, 4iiii left side power, wahoo ELEMNT, Specialized Phenom saddle and the rest on shoes, helmet, some clothing and bottles & cages.
For a beginner budget I'd rather go for the Giant Contend AR. Imho would be a more versatile pick. Discs, clearance for up to 40mm, same geometry as the Open UP (L vs XL), compact frame, stiff and 105. Comes in at 1599. Add 2 pairs of nice wheels. Can recommend the Winspace Lun wheels. You got yourself a road race bike if you slam the stem. You got yourself a Gravelbike if you raise the stem and use a shorter one. Both with nice wheels and great tires. And you still got 1k for the Powermeter left. Beat that. I now ride it as my commuter bike. Dope thing...
Great video guys, love to see such a complete package considered instead of just the bike. I’m a professional bike mechanic here in the UK, so I thought I’d throw my hat in the ring: First of all, I think both bikes are great picks, but I personally would go with a UK bike called the Orro Venturi. Carbon, aero, great spec and cheap 👌🏻 For the wheels I would have to go with Jeff and the bontragers. Hunts are okay for you California boys but I’ve had a lot come through the workshop that can’t survive the British winter. We’ve seen so many spokes, bearings and even a few thru axels written off due to corrosion, so I really can’t recommend them. Then a 4iii 105 power meter and jobs a good’n 😝👍🏼 Have a look and let me know what you think 👌🏻
bought my first bike last month...very excited to see Chris build almost exactly the bike that i bought. he ain’t wrong about the allez sprint, either...
Having recently done this with the exact budget I figured I’d chime in. I pitted these 2 bikes/builds versus my third and final choice. To declare a winner amongst you two..... Chris wins. The sprint is king. It’s just barebones speed and budget oriented. I almost revamped my sprint for this build but took it elsewhere. The giant tcr is solid and a great ready to ride/race bike but I felt it wasn’t the best option. For this build I wanted to go different. I went with a Trek Emonda ALR. It’s just a solid, more comfortable, bike. I’ve learned that you don’t have to be uncomfortable to go “fast”. Wheelset choices were great for your builds but I wanted to suggest checking out Prime carbon wheels. I’ve ran 2 sets of carbon and 1 aluminum and they were solid. The new 50mm V3 are tubeless ready and wide at 28mm. A true competitor while not breaking the bank. On sale they can be had for $550 shipped along with tires. Just a cost effective wheel that doesn’t get much praise or consideration. Another highlight is that they feature 12 speed compatibility across their line. I went AXS for this build and finding a wheel company advertising 12 speed compatibility without costing a fortune was non existent. Attaching a link for anyone that might be interested. www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/us/en/prime-rr-50-v3-carbon-clincher-wheelset/rp-prod193825?mx01=a&mx02=a I enjoyed this video and always like to hear others experience or advice on what works well for them.
There is a Giant TCR Advanced Pro Ultegra that’s under the budget and you can still purchase pedals, tires, and bottle cages. Simply one of the best bang for bucks out there.
@@FluffyDomo The humour is in the double negative. Jeff already acknowledged his “setup” didn’t include helmet, kit, head unit, pedals, etc. I find it rather puzzling why people feel the need to police a comment section and correct for grammatical errors. The fact you missed the joke tells me you need to let your hair down and live a little. Maybe take a look at chris, he seems to be a great role model for that right now.
Great Video as Always! I would go with the BMC ALR @$1999, Zipp 303 wheels @ $1300 GoodYear Eagle F1 tires @ $140 Shimano, 53/39 crankset @$150 Supacaz SuperKush @ $45 Look Keo Pedals @ $150 and a Specialized Comp Power Saddle @ $160 for a total of $3944. $56 for Beer or coffee! Whichever is needed!
Recommending HUNT while being afraid of Chinese carbon Wheels is exactly the humor I was looking for. Hunt is just a brand labelling the cheap stuff from china.
I went through a similar exercise at the beginning of last year - race bike busted up and a limited budget - and I also went with the Allez Sprint to get me rolling again. That frame is great and the stiffness is very welcome when you gotta smash. I spent my excess cash to upgrade to dura-ace mechanical midseason - thing is a beast. I'll be racing on this bike again this season.
I was looking at Yoeleo 2yrs ago, but went with the Giant Propel which was about the same price. In Canada Giant prices can't be matched by another big brand.
Entering the post-road bike phase of my life (I'm 69), today I swallowed my pride and bought a Specialized Sirrus X 5.0 for my declining years. Biggest plus: way easier to navigate in the City (SF). It will last me for the duration. I upgraded to smaller, slick tires. If I had to spend $4k, I'd spend another $1.5k on the lightest wheels I could find. Last, some sticky flat pedals. I never have to snap out again! I love being old.
I'm a bit biased as a TCR owner myself, but I'm surprised Jeff didn't go with the TCR advanced pro 1 at $3600. It comes specced with a power meter and pretty nice stock 42mm carbon wheels that are raceable. That's basically a wash vs the wheels/power meter upgrade, plus you get Ultegra and better components at contact points
I know this video is old now, but good choice on new tires for the TCR! The factory tires on the TCR Advanced are probably the crappiest tires you can put on a bike and if they get one little making them the tread will start peeling off like an orange skin!
i would go with for aluminium the orbea avant H30-d, Ribble AL or the Allez For Carbon Ribble SL, orbea Orca M30 or the trek Emonda for out of the box do a DIY on a WInspace built. With theire frame on 1580$, Lun carbon wheels on 780$ and integrated handlebars on 290$, having 10% discount, comes up to 2385$, and then the ultegra groupset, you can easily fin them for 900$. leaving me 715 for powermeter, computer, saddle and training whells, you can go for a fulcrum 4DB.
Hey i felt that way once too ! Granted, I still couldn't afford to drop $4K just like that on cycling. But this was my first road bike: www.poseidonbike.com/products/poseidon-triton-gold-dust The support if you email asking for help is great, and so far i've put over 250 miles in the saddle after 3 months of owning the bike. It's not bad at all and while idk if it should be recommended for racing, this is fine and works great for everyday use of it
I like a mix of both Jeff and Chris. Giant TCR (same as Jeff but with discs) or Canyon ultimate (disc, carbon with 105). If it’s your first bike probably go TCR so you can get sized correctly. Usually a shop will swap stems, etc to set you up correctly. Farsports Federer (I like mine) or hunt wheels. Stages or 4iiii left side. GP5k tubeless. Prevail helmet. And velotoze if that’s your jam. That’s probably around 4K. if there’s anything left then skin suit or aero race kit.
I’m going with pedals and will blow you guys off the start line when you have nothing to clip into! 😂 great video though. You guys are fun ands entertaining
Powermeter wins all the time! You don't need fancy socks or a fancy handlebar, although the saddle is also a very smart choice if you know your right saddle (but you need to test it before you buy it).
Gotta go with Chris on this, seeing as I went through almost the identical exercise last year with similar budget and came to near the same conclusion. My bike: Allez Sprint (same one), 50mm carbon wheels with DT Swiss hubs, 4iiii power meter, Zipp SL70 Aero handlebar.
I think both of you have a good offer! But jeff is the one i considered because of the package within the item.. You dont have to worry about having a broken $4000 after you crash!!!!!
I bought a used Cannondale Supersix Evo HiMod, Enve 4.5s, Enve fork, Enve aero bars, Enve stem, Dura Ace di2 for $3500 on pinkbike 😉 Still going strong after 6000 miles, fastest bike I've ever been on 🤷🏻♂️
I liked more of Jeffs choices especially for bike which is giant tcr, and power meter which is so important if one wants to train its an absolute must.
@@NorCalCycling fr thats the First thing I think of for $4000 budget. More money left for upgrades and better equipment. Ps I havent fast forward any of your videos atm 🤪
Of course, the best way to buy a good bike on a budget is to buy it used. Can be FAR cheaper. I bought a Colnago C40 HP with Campy record for $2,000. That was ten years ago, and the bike is still as good as any new bike you can buy for $2,000. A few years ago, I bought an barely used entry level cyclocross bike (with Shimano 105 I think, or SRAM, I forget right now) for $750.
