Great Class, one I would ever forget. Keith is an amazing man. Scientist, Machinist, scraper, rebuilder, etc. etc. Thank you so much for all the kind words. I tell all my students to pass on the knowledge. He and now all his followers can start your new adventure. It is an emotional experience seeing my Kids (students) start their scraping and rebuilding career. I am so proud of them! Rich -- Richard King
Richard, thank you so much for making this class at least a bit filmed for the world. I would love to attend some of your classes here, in Ukraine. If it won't be possible, somewhere in Europe. Just keep us informed about your future plans. And put my email to the waiting list, podarokua@gmail.com Appreciate your time.
I guess I was lucky to work as a millrite when I was in my 20s.I worked with many servicemen in my 35 year career and learned to scrape and repair a lot of really nice miller's, surface grinders,gig mills ect.Most of the service men were very sharing with their skills and I thank them and try to do the same to the younger guys that are willing to do the dirty work of rebuilding and repair of these machines. Although new machines are mostly throw away now,these videos will help people in the future repair these older machines .Thanks to you all. o
Wonderful video. Thanks so much Keith. This gives an unusually thorough description of the process and some of the uses it has and problems that one can encounter.
Easily the best time I've ever spent in a "class" setting. Thanks so much Keith for being such a wonderful host to all of us. Anyone interested in saving an old machine or making a usable one better should take this class at the first opportunity--well worth the investment in one's confidence.
Glad to see that everyone enjoyed the class. It is a skill that needs to be taught so we don't lose it ! Many people think it's a old machine " just scrap it". With (lots of love) a old machine can be brought back to life. Also good to see everything standing. I was worried about everyone down there. With the storms that went through. Great video and information !
When I was about twenty I worked at the largest civilian machine shop in the state and was lucky enough to help disassemble and scrape in a Cincinnati #1 horizontal mill, we worked on it for a couple of weeks and I got to scrape several feet of the ways. I learned a lot at that shop.
Very interesting for us civilian types that just look at this as very entertaining and enlightening information the way it's presented. You have a very helpful manner as you explain things to us. Thanks for posting for us Keith !!! It's truly a labor of love for you and you show that with every video you produce. Thanks.
i hope these type of skills are never lost. When I started my apprenticeship as a tool and die maker the first thing we had to do was file a rusty block of channel iron to size within 0.05mm dim and flat and square all sides. Very similar process to blueing on a granite block and hitting the high points.
AWESOME video!!! Great to see how well the class did and how many people the art of scraping was passed down to. Now if 50% of the guys pass that info down to 1-2 other guys and so on, the art will stay alive. Thanks for bringing the content to us all, Keith and thanks for hosting it to help pass on the knowledge. That shop was full to the gills with top class guys and tons of knowledge. I envy everyone who was there. Thanks again!
So cool to see all three of my favorite creators working together to upgrade their skills......gonna make for great future videos for my selfish enjoyment!
I'd be interested in seeing a video on creating your own test standards from scratch without having access to a precision plate or straight edge. From what I've read it is done by taking three pieces and testing each one against the other two and scraping each until each one tests flat to the other two.
Back when Okuma was still building machines in Charlotte, the guys scraping the ways used their hips against a padded scraping tool. They referred to it as "f*cking the football" :)
Thanks for sharing this info as not much is available on line. When I embarked on the now LONG journey of rebuilding a 1968 Bridgeport I was searching for info but found very little. Hopefully a new group of videos is on the horizon that will help promote this art form. Many out there show how to make a machine “look” pretty but few show how to make one straight, flat, parallel etc.. I went through the Connelly Machine Tool Reconditioning book on the advice of Tom Lipton, he noted that I was in tricky waters when I told him my plan, from cover to cover and it’s worth every penny of it’s pricey sticker. When they used to say the world was flat, the hand scrapers (if around) would have all chuckled to themselves … Thanks for the Video and keep us posted on Session 2. Take Care
I have the Connelly book - in fact, reading that book is what inspired me to contact Rich about doing a class! The book is good, but the class is better - having an expert there to show you the ropes is so much better than reading about it and trying to figure it out. It is more of an art than a science!
I'm knee deep in the read, try, cry, learn, repeat process :) I've even started to video my Bridgeport work. I luckily do have a resource ( person ) that has helped me along the way, he's done some serious machine scraping work in the past. Great to bounce ideas off of and get guidance from too. Take Care
Amazing what goes into preserving machine tools. When I worked in die repair we used an orange paint to find high spots on a surface to grind down after we welded nicks and cracks on die edges.
wow, the You Tube Royalty of machine shop creators all in one shop ! Real timely seeing the scraping as I've just started scrape in the bearings on my shaper. Would like to know and see more on the king alignment checking tool. All the best Keith Mat
I am pretty happy with the lighting. I am probably going to invest in some fill lighting that I can use with my videos still but as far as just working in the shop, it is more than adequate!
Outstanding, post when you're going to do this again. Looking forward ti the assembly of the surface grinder. Just painted my Gallmeyer& Livingston grinder about ready to assemble. Tell Adam, Julian said Hi
YESSSS i found your page again. After YOUTube made some changes many months ago, i tried to find you. I was watching Abom 79 and then i see you again. Wow i have a lot of videos to look true, and will have to possibility to follow u again. I am subscribed . Wish you a great week. Best wishes from Jan in Norwy.
I'd love to ask Richard how he has seem manufacturing in America change over the last 20 years. Being a machine rebuilder I'm sure he has a unique perspective on many facets of the business.
Well I love this Keith you have inspired me to fix the stick slip on my surface grinder. After your videos the Biaxs on ebay will be worth more. I am from Australia so I bought two old ,7el scrapers from germany as they run on 240 volt 50hz.
On the 10EE saddle: the common wear pattern is for the operator's left front inverted V to get worn a lot more than any of the other part of the saddle. If you use that as a reference the apron mounting surface will look to be off. If you don't know for sure that someone messed with the saddle I'd bet that the apron mount is as it came from Monarch - mine was original and it did look pretty rough for a scraping job, but it's not a bearing or even sealing surface and just needs to not warp when mounting the apron. PS: my 10EE had about .006 wear on the saddle left front and .007 on the ways. I ended up having the bed ground and machined enough of the saddle to put Moglice under it. That gives a very nice surface.
That part that is out so bad on Lance's saddle is the surface between the saddle and the apron - this is a non- wear area, just where the two surfaces clamp together. Somebody went in and did a really poor job of scraping in this area. Normally, this is an area that should still have the factory finish on it and is an area that you can measure off of to calculate wear. Not sure why they did this, but they did. I am quite certain that this was not done at the Monarch factory.
Hey Keith, like your vids. I got myself re-acquainted with the Vintage Machinery site earlier, and just searched on a whim. Looking forward to more viewing!
You know I may go 2 or 3 months and not teach a class. I can't teach 4 weeks a month as I get exhausted teaching classes. The traveling the intense questions from all the students 10 hours a day for 5 days is difficult after 50+ years of working hard. I supply over $40,000. worth of tools to the class. pay for all my travel expenses. So those who whine about what I charge have no clue. I shipped 10 cartons or tools to and from the class costing close to $800.00 via UPS. Also had 2 - 60 pound rolling tool boxes on the plane. If anyone wants to learn to scrape they can contact me at Richard@Handscraping.com Where else will you learn to rebuild machinery in 1 week? No where! Thanks again Keith! Rich
you just missed the other guy who had a billy beer! i think you may have mistaken tab for crystal pepsi, then again there was tab clear which is gone also
It was Tab. You can see the can in his hand at 7:30 , and again behind the angle plate at 8:25 , and again on the table behind John Saunders at 12:09 . I looked it up and Coke still make Tab. Patrick lives in Atlanta which is Coke HQ, so I guess it is easy to get there. Chris
yes he had a tab, i think i meant to say, perhaps you thought tab had gone, when it was crystal pepsi that had gone after its 80's popularity, and tab clear also went away after the 80's
You can still get Tab around here. Why anybody would want to is another question all together. Of course, I barely ever drink any kind of soda, but when I do, it aint Tab.....
Great news on the Landis still being in good shape. I look forward to seeing and learning some of the machine rebuilding tips you learned as you do your videos. If you host the class again I am definitely still interested.
Fantastic Keith, I can't wait to see you making things again. When you start doing things on your surface grinder can you do a run down on what to look for when buying one?
Debate is occurring on another video/thread. Maybe an answer can be found here. How much do Scrapers make, typically? This data is hard to find online.
landis machine made top of the line !!! not just because my dad worked there all his life . the machine company works is closed now (here in waynesboro pa) a local construction company lives there now but the cafeteria is open for lunch to anyone . thers lots of pictures of machine building on those walls.
Congrats on a good class. I just watched ABOMs video. I spent a lifetime in Aerospace tool making, when a scraping job came in, GROAN LOL!!! I suppose it is a great skill to have but I never cared for it much LOL! Congrats again!!!! :D We often had to match surfaces, not just flat but contoured to 60 to 75% coverage. Pain in the back side :P
You're in a machine shop, why do you have to "take it home to machine it?" (The guy that is scraping Keith's compound since his project is too far out.)
I would have broke out the emery and got it closer first. Sanding 5 thou is easy, scraping not so much. Sanding is just slow speed surface grinding essentially, still more traditional than John Saunders part prep.
I don't think Keith has a mill in that shop yet. In Keith's shop tour a few weeks ago he had multiple lathes and the surface grinder (which was taken apart for the class) but there was no mill. If he had a mill I'm sure he would have let James Kilroy use it. Chris
nice one Keith it lifts my heart to see you all so happy can you say hey to Adam abom for me please love both your channels take care good friend regards Alan alias Hawkeye.
Thanks for your videos Keith! Love seeing all the guys together learning and having fun and we get to be a part of. Thank you! PS: Weiß jemand wie man die "camelback straight edge" im Deutschen nennt?
Keith, I told the missus you are keeping the beard.....she saw me watching this video,,,, and she mumbled something about "him looking like Richard the Third"..... Just letting you know..... Paddy
It will likely get shaved off sooner or later but I am going to keep it for a while. When it gets to being 100 degrees every day, I may decide it is time to go.....
Its a lot of money but well worth every penny in my mind. You just can't learn this stuff from reading a book or even watching a video. It is all hands on experience and having an expert to help you correct your mistakes before they become habit is priceless!
Graham O'Keeffe $1600 for five days of learning from a true master is not expensive at all, regardless of the field. It may seem a strange analogy, but if top pool players charge four figure sums for a one hour lesson, this thing seems very cheap indeed. It's something I'd love to learn, but I'm a tiny bit too far away for it to be feasible.
Please help me understand this scraping. Why? What can't you just Mill it then grind it? I'm not a machinist or a tool builder but I love learning new things, but this does make sense to me.
I only watch Two of the video. But as I heard some of these were up to seven thousand out. Like I said, I love to learn, but I do not have machinery like you do. Thanks for your reply. I will continuity watch you, and maybe I find out more.
I'm curious how that grinder transmits power from the motor to the head. Thanks for sharing what has always been a mysterious art that only old wizards knew.
Most newer surface grinders are directly driven by a motor behind the spindle, with a Lovejoy coupling connecting motor and spindle. A lot of older machines were belt driven. Keith's appears to be belt drive including the table reciprocation and cross feeds, like my Brown & Sharpe 2L. It sure looks like it by the ratchet in the cross feed, and if so there would be a major clockwork mechanism under the saddle to run it. Most newer power feed surface grinders have hydraulics to move the table and cross feeds.
My 1946-1947 B & S 2L grinder has a 126 x 1-1/2" reinforced rubber flat belt that drives the spindle. The design was from the 1920's or earlier. It has four idlers, the motor pulley, and the spindle pulley. A counterweight is on an arm containing one of the idler pulleys, and moves up and down with the spindle, keeping the belt tight with vertical spindle travel. It works fine, but is certainly not a simple or inexpensive design. That is just for the spindle, and a separate leather flat belt drives all the table and cross feed motion through a fairly complicated clockwork mechanism. The direct drive spindles are comparatively a basic design, but work very well, and are the ubiquitous choice today. Hydraulics also have their own share of problems, but reduce complexity and costs and generally work pretty well.
Hi Keith, I just wanted to pass along that I posted a short interview video with Mr. King in May last year during our class at Peter Ross' blacksmith shop in Siler City, NC. Richard does an amazing job keeping everyone on the proper track to achieve unbelievable accuracy. Just a quick question regarding your surface plate - can you please pass along where you had yours re-calibrated? I picked up a 3'x5' Challenge brand which needs some TLC. I'm just south of the ATL airport, so I figured your source would be close to me. Thanks!
Thanks for the video. Are you going to make more videos pertaining to scraping and machine geometry? I have both a lathe and a mill screaming for at complete rebuild.
Not sure how all that works, but I hear from people that they can get it to work. Not that RU-vid can understand my Southern English very well. And I won't be typing in close captions myself.....
I believe RU-vid will close caption. A button will activate close caption, when uploading to RU-vid. I too would not have the time to type. Thank for you the thing you do. Could reach more viewers with close caption.
The plates will wear with use over time but even with daily use like we were doing, they only need to be checked once a year. They wear pretty slow....
what do you think of using a reciprocating saw as a powerskraper? or maby a airpower hacksaw' on smaller jobs?? i dońt know the stroke on a skraper but i know rare tools are expensive dońt matter how simpel they are (I just repaired a 1000$ dremel tool for my daughteŕs pedikyr buissness. a new chuck was 400$.just needed cleaning...)
One of the reapply important things that you need to be able to do with a power scraper is to adjust the stroke depending on what you are doing. Most reciprocating saws will not let you do that.....
The nice thing about the hardened ways is that it does not wear near as bad. I am happy with what I have but if it ever needs to be fixed, I would have to send it out to have it re-ground.
Hi Keith, I live in Palm coast Florida so I'm not too far from you. When you get your shop finished could I hire you to surface grind a 220 pound fisher anvil that I have? It's in great shape but someone in the last hundred years cut two lines about 3/32" deep with a wafer wheel. I'd love to meet you and rather pay you than someone else.
My grinder has a capicity of about 8" wide by 24" long. Not sure about height, but I don't think that would be a problem. If it will fit on the grinder, I am fine with trying to grind it. FYI - I have a 400 lb Fisher anvil. I know that mine won't fit.....
That would be so cool! I'll email you this summer and maybe we can schedule a day. Just measured it, it's 13" tall and the face is 5 1/4" x 17 1/4", thanks Keith.
Your assuming a class every single week, which is not the case. Lot's of travel involved and he usually does one class every month to two months based on demand.
$1650 per person. It may look like a lot of money but remember, this is how he makes his living - and there is an awful lot of expense in traveling that far away, shipping boxes and boxes of stuff, hotel rooms, etc. Not to mention, he brought over $10,000 worth of tools for us to use - all of which he had to purchase. When you start adding it all up, it's not as lucrative as it might appear on the surface. Plus, the information learned is worth every penny! Richard also does not have a class every week - or even every month for that matter.
