‘Don’t Mess With My Hypothetical’: Neil Gorsuch Goes Back And Forth With Lawyer In Homelessness Case 

Gorsuch is so clear, logical, and reasonable. It’s a pleasure to hear him ask clarifying questions.

Gorsuch makes this guy sound like a fool with simple logic. Good job on pointing out the stupidity.

Inexpensive places to eat in the US? That's ridiculous.

I work in healthcare- the shelters are always full- not enough of them. They need funding including basic human needs and safety. Many are worn and children -

I have been impressed with each justice I’ve heard talk on this case. They all seem to see the nuance and humanity of homelessness when politicians on both sides seem to just talk about it like homeless people are just a nuance.

A lot of people don't understand or appreciate the posit of hypotheticals because they don't understand their objective, so they find it outlandish. I'm glad that Gorsuch said it: that it's to "test limits" of a law or statute so that it can be properly measured with the ruler of constitutionality. They're finding the boundaries and inadequacies. The hypotheticals and subsequent replies are why this fascinates me. I also love that they allow for humor.

What it comes down to is the the gov wants to determine whether your need is legitimate. This means, that if they like your view, you qualify, if they don't, you don't. We have seen this play out in real time recently...

The beauty of the mind and heart of true Americans displayed here by these Justices says America is worth saving. We must all act together compassionately to help these people. Helping them is help us and preventing the collapse of our country and planet.

That guy is arguing before the Supreme Court? Good grief he can barely put a sentence together.

This guy needs to stop trying to reframe every scenario Gorsuch asks about

Go to Denver. They won't let you use the bathroom.

This lawyer is really clutching at straws in his arguments which are nonsensical.

I’m so glad these justices are sitting on the court.

Some “homeless” do not want to live in an apartment or shelter…

I think this topic can get overcomplicated needlessly. The issue is about externalities and residence. Sleeping on a bench is not the issue. Forming a residence near the bench and defecating, cooking, storing items, bathing in a single public space has negative externalities.

"WHAT IF A HOMELESS PERSON HAS NO ACCESS TO A RESTROOM, CAN THEY [JUSTIFIABLY] DEFECATE ON THE STREET?" "THAT SITUATION HAS NEVER ARISEN... NO ONE IS SUGGESTING...." SLIPPERY

A fascinating philosophical question

Gorsuch is quickly approaching my favorite justice.

My son sent this to me. He's baffled at the governments attorney being so evasive. My son has entered the mature, self thinking zone.

Deuteronomy 15:7 "If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother ..

lol , just let them eat at restaurants

Criminalizing homelessness is not the way to take care of the problem

It’s amazing how touchy-feely this whole thing is.

Properly treat mental health issues regardless of income.

You can be homeless in status as long as you don't sleep

5:29 It’s conduct , in the ‘status’ category . . It’s purple - because cats don’t like mittens after all.

Unbelievable that these BS arguments are even before our highest court... 😮

This lawyer arguing this sounds unprepared.

I just wanted to say that If you have suicidal thoughts, mental trauma, PTSD or anything Just know. You have a purpose you are beautiful, kind, just be yourself and go after what you want to do. You are amazing, you got this, and things will get better in your life, you will do great things, and so many people like your family and I are proud of you and love you dearly. Your future is bigger than your past and your past does not define you are awesome and a warrior. Don’t hate yourself simply because of your past, forgive yourself, love yourself no matter what because you deserve the world and the great things in it. Things we’ll get better in your life. You are the light of the world. Stay safe. 💪🏽Have a beautiful day❤️❤️💯💯

The status of being homeless is to lack a place to perform the basic necessities of life indoors. The issue is, should it be illegal to do that which is natural and necessary because you don't have a home?

Inability to provide for food clothing or SHELTER is the very definition of Grave Disability. This should mandate the State or County to provide adequate treatment facilities.

I love the supreme Court building so beautiful. Built by the old world and re used by us#free masonry 😊. I wish we had the technology to recreate these beautiful buildings

this guy that's answering is a terrible person

The answer to this is the court should rule that the state cannot do anything to force the homeless to do anything. Then the only solution would be a legislative one and it would force our "leaders" to solve the problem once and for all.

How about we do the following: just a hypothetical: forget our homeless vets and others and simply give another $90 BILLION to Ukraine & Israel

Americas attack on being humane- this judge is wise and cares about all Americans

Well done judge

This is (D)ifferent. 🤔 The problem is nearly 100% contributed to drug addiction. Until this fact is addressed nothing will change.

Don't mess with my Toot Toot.........

However you feel about Gorsuch's politics, he seems very well studied and prepared.

“People can beg for money” except they’re trying to ban pan handling as well in most cities!

"But... but... but...

People get FINED for buying homeless people food, they get Fined for making food for homeless people. Bathrooms are CLOSED to the public even most places do not provide for customers only workers.... Yet our very government pays BILLIONS for others to have a suite and 3 square meals a day and all the clothes they need yet homeless people lay on the steam that comes out of the manholes thus making them get sick trying to stay warm.. and they stay in the same clothes ,sometimes for weeks on end with no shower or way to wash up. Someone tell me the justice in this??

How do these lawmakers and lawyers get caught up with such obvious and basic roadblocks to their proposed laws and their defense of said laws…how much time do they REALLY spend on fleshing out, their desired line of thought and reason? It seems like they say, “hey! This here, is a problem, we need to address it.” “Ummmm okay, well, this here is a solution to that problem…” “Well, maybe we should think of the ways in which this doesn’t make sense as a solution” “Nah, screw that man, we’ve got other shit to do…”.

People don’t realize how amazing Gorsuch is and how very constitutional. They don’t always “like” what he says but he is almost always completely constitutional and on point. An amazing questioning here by him

Not that you read these comments, but good for you, Justice G. Well thought out questions. Only hope that a couple of the other Justices can assemble the same solid, quiet incisiveness. Interesting to see the interlocutor fumble under the weight of your seriousness... And, who says that the government would not increase the facilities available if the law plays itself out? This focus on "status" has been overplayed as a weapon against progress and legal stability. Not the way it should be.

The more I listen to the grants Pass case, the more I see a community that wants to drive out it’s poor, and homeless, instead of taking care of them, and taking care of them would not be that hard, given the amount of money they are spending trying to drive them out, and on this court case.

There’s no compassion in this law.

The lawyer fails to understand that homelessness in many cases is more than a single issue. Mental health, homelessness, and drug use occur simultaneously with the same person. Many homeless are drug addicted, and many others are also mentally ill. Many others are both drug addicted and mentally ill.

So, you have an 8A right to your choice of doing drugs in a shelter or doing drugs in a public park. Got it.

The chronically homeless have a multitude of problems leading to their status of homelessness - it is their conduct that leads to their status. We need to regulate their behavior and actions to limit.

so wait, if I am homeless I cannot cook a meal for myself with a fire in a public space, instead, I must beg for canned food handouts. If I am NOT homeless, I have every legal right to cook myself a meal in a public space?.. wth?... or no? I will no longer be able to go to a park and use the grills to make food?... I am so confused.

This is too much. Leave it to the tax payers (we pay for the public space). If tax payers say no then you have to sleep on the street outside of the municipality. Sorry, transients. We matter, too.

Let him cook!

The government lawyer's repeated reliance on "individual circumstances" betrays the government's entire case. Are police officers trained or otherwise situated to assess whether a person sleeping on public property is an alcoholic or domestic violence victim who rationally elects to avoid the homeless shelter? No. In fact, it is widely recognized in police human resources that recruitment of candidates for the police academy is increasingly difficult because of common knowledge that police officers are put into impossible situations as they are required to cattle herd very sick and troubled people.

It’s shocking that this man is a lawyer 😂😂😂😂

Sleeping in my car Donald Rumsfeld gave me 5 dollars & it only bought a cup of clam chowder. Police said I could park at Juanita Beach but handcuffed when my 19 year old son took me to get gas in his truck. Bounced around in a van cuffed in pain on a cold metal seat. Cut wires out of my bra then after sitting in a cell I was given instant coffee & $100 " sorry we made a mistake". Cop car ride to my car then found Motel 6 near EVERGREEN HOSPITAL... 2011..... 🍁 FALL

Is it just me, or does this sound like someone has determined that there may be a way to eliminate homelessness by just making it OK to throw the homeless in jail?

All slaves owned by The Corporation must be domiciled in a Corporation owned or leased barracks or face criminal penalty, to include being confined in a Corporation owned penal institution.

Acts include self destruction is unacceptable behavior because it causes harm to self and all others including far away family. Mental Health Safe Houses are available.

As a nation, we cannot lay city, county and state f@ckups in the hands of Supreme Court for solution.

I imagine that the pressure one feels before the Supreme Court is indescribable, but even so, I feel like some of the answers to Gorsuch's questions seemed obvious. If there is a bed physically available but the person has a condition (mental or physical) that leaves them unable to take use of that bed, then it is theoretically available for someone but it's not available for that individual, which puts them back in the same situation that this was initially about. As for the issue of food, we have always treated some ways of acquiring food as illegal. You can't steal food, that's conduct and not status. If a municipality really wanted to be cruel, they could put building a fire within these boundaries too. But eating in public crosses the line into status as that is a basic human necessity. If there are choices involved and multiple options, it's conduct, but when it's a necessary part of one's condition, it's status. These were certainly pointed questions but I don't think that they were difficult questions and I don't understand why this took over eight minutes when it could have been answered in thirty seconds.

This argument is ridiculous

He absolutely destroyed that lawyer!😂😂

Imagine the administrative apparatus needed to make these individualized decisions. Ridiculous!

Some homeless shelters require breathalyzer tests before a homeless person can stay at the shelter, in some states.

In the old days society had work houses and county farms where indigent people would go for food and shelter. There were also long term mental hospitals. In the 70s it was deemed to be cruel to send people to these places and people were discharged to the street with the understanding that community based services would be set up. Unfortunately, those services were never created which left these people on their own. Politicians took the savings from the closing of various service facilities and wasted it instead of providing community based programs. Once “activists” started suing for homeless “rights” politicians once again wimped out and allowed the homeless to do whatever they wanted which was usually detrimental to the community. Money and broken promises by politicians is the root of the problem.

It seems to me that the 8th Amendment may have unlimited bounds to constrain the ability of government to enforce laws on certain kinds of lawlessness and antisocial behavior. Difficultly to discern between status ( homelessness or drug addiction) vs behavior (camping or injecting heroin). Government, for the people and by the people, cannot always solve every social issue. Homelessness in all its forms cannot be easily solved by offering free beds indefinitely nor can we incarcerate people because of their mental health and substance abuse problems. This court will not resolve our need to address homelessness, and Congress needs to step up to make law to help communities provide a path to protect the greater good.

This isnt going well for the state.

Park rules & community rules must obey open fire rules.

We need to make facilities that help people get off drugs, prevents them from doing drugs, and provides job placement and housing. People get on drugs because of depression from being hopeless.

We hired homeless folks for work and they can not commit to work schedules . Is very difficult . They are very fluid and nomadic in nature , stability makes them unstable . Indian Guru Osho was the only one who knew how to solve this issue .

If this lawyer was a Marine in boot camp , he would be doing push ups forever!

The Pleader wants to create an overarching “blanket law” but he really hasn’t thought through all the ramifications. Basically he wants a “Law” that prevents people from taking advantage of the “Situation” that the Governing Agencies and Local Citizens THEMSELVES Created and Promoted through THEIR OWN “POLICIES”. If YOU “Feed Them” THEY Will Come …

Sounds like the lawyer wants government mandated discrimination to become law.

Compare Kneedler to Senator Ted Cruise when he was in front of the Supreme Court

That lawyer was horrible.....

Gorsuch nailed the issue, 8th Amendment does not guarantee any individual choice that impacts other.

>inexpensive restaurants to eat My brother in Christ, it is the current year

Homeless win this

Stop arresting and start building restroom facilities. There are are state and city parks that have grills so cooking outside is not illegal

Savages.

it is a tough questions but Gorsuch needs to stop interrupting this guys answer.

Who is this attorney ???? He makes Gorsuch look like a liberal

We either live in a country where we have freedom of speech or we don't! You don't get to pick and choose just because you don't like the politician using the speech!

Walmart has been on the “socials” because they seem to have a pattern of inflating the weights on their products that are packed in house. ? 😂 You see?

I think the lawyer arguing is actually *trying* to argue against the law. If so, he's failing badly. Gorsuch is dismantling him, and I don't even feel like that's his intent.

The federal gov gives tens of millions of dollars to the states and cities to be spent on homelessness, drug and alcohol addiction, etc. States and cities spend (allegedly) that money on these services… yet there’s NEVER ENOUGH … where the f^ck does all the money go??? 🤔🤔 The military sure as f^ck can’t answer that question… most states can’t answer that question, and the federal government can’t answer that question…but f^ck you if you can’t figure out where that $25 came from or if you’ve received $600 from people, through a pay service. And how the F^ck can you owe interest on owed taxes? They don’t have the money to begin with, so it’s not like they could have been making money off of it, AND THEIR MONEY IS YOUR MONEY TO BEGIN WITH…

MY PREDICTION: a 9-0 ruling in favor of Johnson.

More public bathhouses, more beds to sleep

This all can be blamed on Reagan.

The lawyer who is arguing this doesn't really sound that sharp

This attorney is going to have recurring nightmares of being interrogated by Gorsuch for the rest of his life.

Public safety and sanitation should be foremost consideration when addressing homeless situations, why should the many be displaced by the few.

God this guy attorney is clueless

What protections do tax paying, law abiding citizens have to prevent homeless camping in their yards and communities and exposing their children, friends, and neighbors to their conditions? Shouldn’t the 8th amendment protect the majority of our population first by not subjecting them to the unusual punishment of having to deal with sights, sounds, and smells as well as human waste and criminal behavior? This is punishment without due process. To say they have a right to camp, cook, or live on public land because beds are available or not because of their behaviors gives them free ownership and it is no longer public land is it? If any other animal took up residence in plain sight of the community wouldn’t the laws allow them to be relocated to designated areas where they would be less of a nuisance or threat to the general population? We as a society, the vast majority of which pay taxes to support our laws, law enforcement, infrastructure, and public spaces should not have to tolerate homelessness in full public view. Few, if any, communities would not allow a homeowner or renter to erect unsightly structures, be intoxicated in public, or use the sidewalk or street as a place to relieve themselves.

RE: Public urination/defecation I would say that yes, punishing someone for using the bathroom in a public place when there is no available alternative to them would be a violation of the eighth amendment. You ever have to go really, really bad? Like, so bad that it hurts? So bad that it's pretty much forcing its way out? Imagine being homeless in that scenario. It's 3 AM. Nothing is open. There are no public restrooms near you. Your excrement or urine is coming out no matter what. Your choice is whether it comes out inside your clothes or outside of your clothes, and if it comes out inside your clothes you are going to be forced to endure that filth. I would argue that expecting a person to lather in their own filth in order to comply with the law is definitely cruel and likely unusual. That's not to say we can't have some reasonable restrictions about where and how you do it. I think doing it in an alley is, for example, a lot more acceptable than in the middle of a sidewalk, near an elementary school. I also think that someone who does it in a plastic grocery bag and throws it in the dumpster- a standard we use for pet waste- is a lot more acceptable than someone who just does it on the concrete. No homeless person who is exercising due care in where and how they relieve themselves should ever be punished merely because they did the act in a place considered to be public. The reaction to homeless people sleeping, eating, or relieving themselves in a public place should, first and foremost, be to try and help them no longer have to do that. My reaction to seeing human waste on the streets isn't "those darn homeless people!" it's "why aren't there 24 hour bathrooms every couple blocks?" My reaction to seeing a man sleeping in a doorway isn't "get a jerb, bum!" it's "we need to find a place for him to live." I think not only is it unconstitutional to punish them for their inability to sleep or use toilets due to a lack of housing, but it is also deeply, deeply immoral and unamerican. We can do better.

wish this topic was getting more media news coverage instead of all the updates on how many naps trump took but thats how the news works!

Did they commit murder because people can be homeless if they want.

They’re homeless people …so they have pots and pans to cook on ? what a stupid question?