‘I Actually Disagree With That’: Kagan Spars With Lawyer About Whether Homelessness Is A 'Status' 

Imagine you're homeless but you have a job and are trying to get a roof over your head, then you get thrown in jail for being homeless, can't work and lose your job. This is MADNESS!!

The implications of this case are HUGE.

Wow, we criminalize building houses, and we criminalize houslessness.

This is crazy... Sleep is a necessary thing. If you have no place to go and you fall asleep in public, that is a criminal act. Why not take all of the money we just gave away to other countries and fund shelters for homeless people 90 billion dollars would fund homeless shelters in perpetuaty. We have our priorities all wrong

Just because you got lucky and got a bed in a shelter, doesn't mean you are no longer homeless. Homeless people usually do not establish a "campsite" by simply sleeping on the ground.

It is so sad that the elites, corporations and politicians have created this situation and they blame it on the poor. When they finally have all the money and power, the same will happen to you.

If a family loses their home due to a catastrophic natural event, such as a earthquake or wildfire, thus making them homeless, you can't make that a crime.

These people could argue the definition of what IS IS!

Lawyers, most of them I have known, are NPD certifiable.

"Sleeping in public" is a "conduct", and this law makes that "conduct" a crime? How will it distinguish between a person with a blanket, falling asleep on a park bench and a group of folks putting up tents, etc. The ordinance gives police the responsibility of having to decide these issues, on the spot, and make the problem "go away". It's for folks who are offended by the mere sight of others being poor. It does nothing towards solving a complicated social issue and, in fact, will simply make it a more violent issue as the cops force people to move or be taken somewhere else.

People are priced out of housing. Low income and often middle income people can no longer gather all the necessary funds to get housed. Not just rent but utility deposits etc… They also have to have a good credit rating which is hard to get if you don’t have a bank account or other resourced. It’s such a merry go round and now they are adding criminal charges. How sad.

Well, it was pretty clear the attorney had lost control of her argument. Avoiding a declarative response to the question was an indication that it was a road she didn’t want to go down because it would muck up the bases for their claim. The intricacies here seem a bit crazy, and the arguments have lost sight of humanity. But, Keegan follows along with the definitions and tries to parse it out to make sense of what they’re saying in the process, revealing that it’s a mess.

How about we criminalize drug addicts on the streets who refuse treatment and housing?

Bright enough to argue before the Supreme Court but not bright enough to know that Homelessness is definitely a Status!

Why don't we just ask homeless people to hover above the Earth so they're not violating the owners of the Earth. Who did the original landlords by the Earth from?

Good grief, homelessness isn’t a ‘status’ bc it isn’t a static situation. What a beach. Addiction isn’t necessarily a permanent situation either.

You cant build or buy a home but if u dont have one, u cant live anywhere but jail. The founding fathers would be proud I'm sure, smh.

For the purposes of the argument, is a national park a public space and if so, would sleeping in a public park, the status (e.g. homelessness) and accommodation (e.g. a tent) notwithstanding, be a conduct crime? That is, if sleeping in public is a crime, then you could be arrested for going camping? Or is this argument only limited to parks, streets and venues where camping is not allowed. And if that is the case then the fact that camping is not allowed should make it a crime whether homeless or not. It should not be a crime for some (with homes) but not for others (homeless).

Homelessness unresolved is negligence of self and government officials to power through and care.

Yet we charge a monetary sum to enjoy the PUBLIC SPACES such as national parks, state parks, etc. even though our taxpayer funds have already been collected too ensure (supposedly) that these spaces are funded and available…

I told you its already getting out of hand.

How about criminalizing the person that cut this audio off?

The crime is how corruption creates it start prosecuting greedy people

Why not construct refugee camps for the folks who have nowhere to live but their tents or cars. We know how to build refugee camps in foreign countries.

At 4:48 about criminalizing "breathing" we did that during the pandemic. Look, if these encampments were clean, safe, no drug use, not getting in the way of people who want to walk through a park or not have dirty stuff outside their business on a public sidewalk, that would be fine. Reality is, housing is too expensive, rents are too high, 25% of those needing #Section8 can get it because it is underfunded, so all sorts end up on the streets. Reality is, some of the encampments get entrenched, with drug use, filth, criminals hanging out there, and it threatens public order. Both sides are a bit correct. People should not be allowed to camp outdoors instead of living indoors, but they should have an alternative - affordable housing.

Homelessness that imposes health and safety concerns on others, interferes or impedes with the movement of others, disallows others from using that public space is the issue. If jurisdictions create homeless areas for sleeping or shelters, homeless individuals shouldn't be allowed to set up tents in city parks or in business doorways or in front of city hall or wherever they please!

This 20 years lack of quality education had led this country with many advocate who do not problems-solved anymore.Solution to homelessly is multifactorial but charges or ordinance....those solutions are more housing, more affordable housing, more kindless from those who r 👄 open their houses(social virtues), more supportable shelter, treatment of mental and behavioral issues.

I think that camp grounds for homeless folks should be considered. A place for porta potties, running water and electricity and mailboxes, etc and possible kitchen to cook food. I think that 99% of the homeless can't comply with rules in shelters/housing for whatever reason. Some DO want to get off the streets but there's no path to getting housed. A big part of the problem is property owners who charge way too much for rents. We have working people with jobs who live in their cars because they can't afford rent. I was one of those people, almost 30 years ago, homeless for a year and a half. I was fortunate enough to eventually obtain a section 8 voucher and finally got a home and got back on my feet. On the flip side is that many, many families who have section 8 are notorious for destroying the property which leaves property owners refusing section 8 tenants. The majority who have section 8 are disabled and elderly and even veterans who are decent and responsible people. Again, I am one, elderly AND disabled. It's an extremely complicated problem/issue and has been "studied" for decades and decades all the while that homeless folk population increases.

Governments and cities already have the power and right not to allow extreme conditions, All this will do will make it illegal not to have a mortgage or a lease. These extremes are being allowed and created so that the public will eventually accept something they normally wouldn't have. Right now the politicians are trying to limit the people's rights to the public and shift them to the corporations. Today it's the homeless Tomorrow it'll be a next group until it's your turn.

*#BreathingIsNotParticipatory!

They're going to create a debtors prison one way or another.

So I have a nephew that is drug addicted he’s been through rehab he’s been in jail, but he has lived on the street by his choice for almost 27 years, what do you do with that he’ll come and free load he’ll move in with you and free load for a while, but then he goes back out on the street by his choice, if there’s a statute in the area that says you cannot live on the street in this area by state law, then you move on to an area in which you can if that’s your choice to live on the street

I'm elderly, half disabled and working part time to pay my rent- when fully disabled I will be homeless- I have worked since I was 13 years old , and am college educated- THIS IS FRIGHTENING

This is horrible. Humans have a basic right to exist/live in Public land.

Housing is so expensive so a lot of people will end up on the street. Everyone has to have mansions to keep the law off your back.

"Homelessness IS a status, it's a status of not having a home." 😂🤣

If homelessness is illegal, and you find yourself homeless, just go to a police station, or flag down a police car, and inform the police that they're obligated to take you to jail where you can get a shower, a bed, and some food. Make that your retirement plan.

She has a lot of nerve calling it 'camping'.

Without context this argument is pointless

Why is no one talking of camping indefinitely on public right of way.

This lawyer is struggling to defend criminalizing homelessness.

Does this mean I can't fall asleep in public? Can't take a nap in public? Arrested for taking my daily nap.

Correct Justice Kagan.... homelessness is not a status.....

The definition of crazy

Drug addiction is the problem. Homeless is one of many consequences.

These lawyers who cant answer questions are corrupt should be disbarred - constantly trying to twist the language and redefine terms. Listen to this defining camping and campsite at the Supreme Court of the United States of America. That is where the policies of drug use everywhere and govt handouts have brought us.

This is what happens when we let foreign adversaries buy homes and sell them at extreme prices.

Why would a National Park Service camping definition apply to municipalities? Isn’t the nature of a municipality to be different than a park?

So interesting. Love how the Supreme Court doesn't allow long speeches and interject pointed questions. Better be on your toes...haha

I have yet to hear the answer so where do homeless people sleep?

Imagine some guy sleeping in his car in a public parking lot. Kagan would like there to be a justification for police to detain someone for sleeping in their car.

Homelessness will never be solved. 1. There are homeless people traveling to washington state because they hear they are well taken care of there. You incentivize people to live that way. 2. Homelessness is a billion dollar industry. Did you know that during the 2008 -2017 period there were more non profits created than anything else? These vultures don’t pay taxes, and they spent the majority of their money “running” these places. 3. The highest homeless charity CEO paid themselves 1 million dollars in 2021.

Finally, common ground with Elena Kagan. Homelessness is a status. I was a bum in Boston for 9 years. I am Metacom’s Heir. Maybe Elena Kagan can explain why she treats the courthouse as common ground. I’ve been waiting for an explanation for nearly 3 1/2 years.

Mrs Kagan: That's as it should be. Homelessness is with a home.

***WOW*** So, doing something like putting a 'cap' on rent so that fellow... Yes (I don't give a sht about political preference) fellow Americans can afford to have a roof over there heads will NEVER make it to the supreme Court but rather make it criminal for becoming homeless does😮 is that what this is. Disgusting af.

Ridiculous. U cannot criminalize homelessness

It is almost hard to imagine the level of moral corruption that goes into spending tax dollars on architecture that is hostile to the homeless, and then following it up by passing laws that effectively make it illegal. I have bad knees and met up with some friends outside a restaurant in the city, and I quickly realized there was no where to actually sit because of this. Then another time I had to wait a few hours at a train station (with a ticket), tried laying down in a remote corner and was quickly ordered to sit up by an officer? How do we deliberately do this to our fellow human beings?

OH MY GOD! . . . LAWYERS GET SO ENTAGLED IN THEIR OWN TWISTED RETORIC THAT IT BECOMES RIDICULOUS TO UPHOLD AND AT THE END BACKFIRES AT THEM! . . . .shame on lawyers!!

So, if I am waiting on a park bench for someone to get out of a lengthy doctor’s appointment a few blocks away, and I rest my head on my rolled up jacket, cover myself with a small stadium blanket, sitting upright, or lying down on the ground in the sunshine, and nap. I’m breaking the law? Especially if I’m homeless? Maybe my friend is my only warm bed for the coming evening. WTF?

The legislature “COULD” criminalize pretty much anything. Whether it could withstand constitutional challenge is an entirely different question. If only Kagen would let the attorney answer the question, then the public might conclude that she has not pre-judged an issue. As a Supreme Court Justice, I expect better. I don’t have a position on this issue, but this was a poor example of blind justice.

Arrogant lawyer arguing like that with a SCOTUS justice just pees me off. Kagan is clearly not only the better law thinker but also the better person here. I don't like the homeless problems and rampant drug problems that result in that status either, but to criminalize being down and out is BS, find some other solution than jailing the downtrodden or trampling on people's rights.

The shame of being homless is not so much on the homless, it's on those who have a home.

Pooping on the public sidewalk is probably not good.

These lawyers who refuse to answer questions... Just mind-boggling.

I have no idea what the full case is behind this story, but why doesn’t she ask her if she’s willing to put up 1 homeless person in her own house, until they get “back on their feet”.

I agree .. with Kagan

"A tentsite suggest something to people" Actually, Justice Kagan needs to learn what the heck a campsite is. While yes modern use impleis a tent, when you don't HAVE a tent you aren't suddenly and magically unable to camp.

Justice gave a great example 'Breathing is a crime' the Atty either chose to ignore that, could not appreciate, has no empathy? So grateful Kagan is in that seat and not the Atty.

We need to take care of one another. Speak up and insist that we make room as a priority in Government budgets at all levels. We have the funds. Finland solved homelessness based on an American model, as well as elderly care.

Wow. Hard to believe that we live in a country (world?) where not having a roof over one’s head has to be debated as to its Legality. Oh my. (I pretty much understand the issue of Where; but the Status Itself?)

Homeless people in Grants Pass are unilaterally considered to be "Campers". lol. I mean, she said it without saying it. They're just openly camping with nothing but a blanket in flagrant violation of the city ordinance; not because they're homeless, but because they have no regard for the law and coincidentally also left everything else at home. 😂 I've heard it all.

Not all homeless people are the same with the same situations. Must treat each separately because there is a big difference between homelessness due to mental illness, drugs or not being able to pay rent but having a job.

The Simpson warned us about this.

When someone has no means, nowhere to go, their need for shelter trump your need to not have an eyesore when you take a walk in the park. I say eyesore because its just inconvenient for us to be reminded that there are people suffering. Not to shame them for their unkempt appearance. If they commit crime or harass people that's another story. If they are minding their own business I don't think we need to be inhumane. We could have a completely better society/better way of living if austerity was banned.

Well yeah you have to outlaw individual camping because freedom of assembly prohibits addressing the group issue.

So the victims should be prosecuted?

The money that is being spent on people that entered our country illegally, would be better spent on solving the homeless situation.

She said anyone who is sleeping in public goes😂 against society's conduct standards. So if an elderly person dozes off on a park bench that's considered conduct not acceptable in society? If someone does is off while reading a book leaning against a tree in a park, is that unacceptable conduct.

Police guidance for those with out a home where to sleep is the job of public safety officers.

Justice Kagan asked a simple "yes or no" question regarding "Is homelessness a status?" The answer is "Yes." The arguing attorney is avoiding the question -- Justice Kagan is correct. (Note: Finland solved homelessness based on an American model.)

No, it isn't a status. She clearly doesn't comprehend her own arguments since homelessness isn't and will never be a status, no matter if she wants it to be one. She clearly doesn't comprehend the issue, what an embarrassment to the country and the judicial profession.

Kagan's combination of sophistry and desiring to legislate from the bench, is discouraging.

Attorney with a lisp has a hard time answering a question.

The lawyer will not answer the question

Homelessness has been solved by Finland based on an American model. The United States gives up and changes depending on the weather -- whether someone is good or bad in the oval office, whether someone is good or bad in Congress, and whether someone is good or bad living on the streets. Just help them, no matter if it's raining or snowing. Why actually does not matter, just do not give up.

Nothing difficult pay up!!

Their statue should specify “along or adjacent to a public thoroughfare” so you can articulate that people can’t block sidewalks or put themselves at risk to general traffic (I.e collisions). They can sleep else where, just not right on a side walk where it will obstruct businesses etc.

You can breathe in public, with a mask…is that not what they did?

A lot of these homeless are veterans with PTSD, who fought for their sorry backsides .

Of course its a status

Pretty soon they will try to outlaw hiking and backpacking

My status as a taxpayer gives them the right to get into my pocket and throw my money at others who do not have the status of taxpayer. I wonder if that an oxymoron?

Homelessness is not a crime but the ACTS committed by the homeless should be.

Jesus...are we really here!

I'm happy one of the supreme Court judges at least still has a brain.... Thank God they're not all corrupt idiots

We need to enforce laws that prohibit loitering, panhandling, and other nuisances that disrupt our communities. At the same time, we should offer a helping hand to those willing to accept it and provide them with the resources and support they need to get back on their feet. Ending homelessness requires a comprehensive approach that addresses the economic, social, and personal challenges facing those on our streets. With determination,

'The People of the Abyss' Jack London - 1903

1st Amendment violation regardless of the 8th Amendment application.

😮‍💨 These dummies are going to ruin everything.

I think the fight over simply sleeping is missed placed, this is why the sidewalks are managed by the property owr that borders them. simply fine the property owners for blocked sidewalks, and the trash, and the like. this moves abatement out of the citis per view.