The last London stop is officially Turkey street/enfield lock. But the oyster card works outside London so the last Oyster card stop is Broxbourne if you are going towards harlow/standstead or Hertford east after the line splits at Broxbourne.
@@8888k since when is being ‘confused’ grounds for people to say they are being cheated? It’s just an excuse for someone that can’t accept they got it wrong.
I'd say it is a deliberate trap. They will never admit it in a million years. To convert to contactless is really not that hard. With the fines generated already, it could have been in and paid for!! This is the heartless unaccountable society we live in. Fleece to gift the rich.
I am a pensioner. As a kid and as a young adult, I travelled by train a lot. Ticket office, ticket, cheap, no problem. Toiday's systems intimidate me. I am scared to travel by train, and have not done so for over 20 years. I drive everywhere. Also, I am not stupid, I have a PhD in science. Wish I could back to the 60s, 70s and 80s. Life was so much simpler, people focused, and not being ripped off all the time.
£50 give or take for each contactless point £500 each for the gates Save thousands in wages , it’s a trap as the alternative is far cheaper and they’re purposefully avoiding switching
@@Alphoric agree, I worked for a company that provides all kinds of passenger services at UK airports but more importantly the ticketing and gating systems for LU and UK railways. They rail service has no excuse! There is a solution, but they choose to not implement it.
There is a trap between Waterloo and Bank via the Waterloo and City line - there is no ticket barrier to gain access to the Waterloo platform. TfL have ticket inspectors waiting at Bank.
@@Bungle2010no it’s way too easy to blunder when the system permits you to tap in. That’s basically doubly true with foreign visitors. It should be a legal requirement that the system won’t let you in without a valid ticket and if that cannot be organised then collect fares in the train.
No, I'd expect londoners to know what area is covered by Oyster and Contactless. Others going back should have noted they couldn't travel Contactless from Stanstead to London and therefore not the other way around? But the ticket inspectors are there since there are no barriers at Stanstead.
Failure to read, the customers are the problem then complaining about it. Ridiculous. I have to say that when I used to work at Stansted Airport you could always buy a ticket on the train without being subject to or paying a penalty fine but that was over 20 years ago! No, failure to read is the problem here and probably incorrect feedback that you can get a train journey hack. No sympathy for Stansted Express passengers.
@@eddherring4972 Whilst I am inclined to agree that failing to read and notice banner signs is a problem, you cannot say that its the problem. If its just one person or a small group of people, its incompetence on their part, when its a majority or large minority, then its systematic and needs reform or education. We don't make bottles of acid that look like water because we know people will be stupid and make mistakes, the purpose of a penalty fare is to deter illegitimate efforts to evade payment, it should not be used against honest people making a common mistake.
The decent thing to do is to either set up contactless in Stanstead, or allow people to pay the extra fare without fines at arrival. This is how it is done in Japan, you buy a ticket, but decided to get off at a later station, so the gates will not let you out. You go to a vending machine, insert you ticket, pay the difference and get a new ticket that will let you out.
They must make alot of money from these fines, Look at the amount of staff they have available. If they weren't profiting from this, it would have been fixed long ago.
@@jkasaunder228I was thinking the same thing, they don't want suggestions of efficient solutions from Japan or from common sense. They are clearly happy to create inefficiency/massive lines/admin & appeal work, unsatisfaction, embarrassment etc etc. Because for them and their shareholders, it's worth it.
They shouldn't let people through the barriers by tapping, it's clearly a deliberate trap. Edit: I have subsequently found out that the service is not direct and the tap barriers are for stops en route. I would still argue that the company knows this and instead of focusing on fines, they should focus on awareness and make sure people are aware before boarding.
Why should they not when there are 3 potential contactless destinations on the Stansted Express and those barriers access other services that are either 100% contactless stations or have a significant number of them?
You can't just disable contactless because that shifts the issue to Tottenham Hale where people would not be able to get on some services to Liverpool Street as a result
@@JoshLStuff Fair enough, I have never used it. I made an assumption that it was an express service without stopping. They clearly know that the fines are a good earner for them. It appears obvious that people are not deliberately avoiding the fare. Do they issue warnings once you have boarded the train.
@@gmo4250yes its odd because its actually simply the only service that goes there. I am not a frequent yser but i believe the trains call out "Oyster and Contactless are not valid beyond this station" where necessary
It's a money racket, the fact that Stansted Express was asked to go contactless for the Olympics way back in 2012 and nothing was done, speaks volumes.
The fact they regard the amount of fines as "commercially sensitive" says enough about how it supports Greater Anglia's Profit and Loss statement. They are endeavouring to be as appealing as possible to their board and investors by dishing out the maximum number of penalty fares - implementing automation to enable contactless would shut down this revenue stream.
The fact that the train operator refuses to respond to requests for information is yet another example of the contempt that the Brits treat their customers. It will probably be a criminal act to breath in this tawdry country before long.
What you on about? Half the people suffering from it are Brits, just the heads of greateranglia profiting off it. We "Brits" are on the receiving end of this issue, not the giving end.
Don't kid yourself, same thing in France - we were entrapped in Nice, where you can't buy a ticket at the airport, nobody is there to help, but the system has plenty of money for the Inspectors (who dress like stormtroopers) to shake you down.
On the basis that a significant number of people are arriving at Stansted and being fined because they were under the impression that they could make the journey contactless. This surely would indicate that the signage is inadequate !!
People are to busy looking at their phones when they're traveling. Also if they are Londoners they should know that Stansted isn't in London and not within any zones. Always read signs when travelling.
Yeah - you're assuming that the travellers didn't already know... which I find doubtful! If they weren't caught, they'd save £15 by not buying a full ticket.
Surely it would be more reasonable for the staff they employ to fine unsuspecting passengers were instead deployed at the London end of the line to check the customers there have tickets before they board the train. It’s more humane to advise people than to punish them for making a genuine mistake.
I’ll forgive your Londoncentric view of the world as it’s quite common among those who rarely travel outside the city, but trains arrive at Stansted from all over the country. Not just Liverpool Street.
What bugs me more about this, is there are not inspectors on the train, but only at the airport. So you have to wait in a long line to get out of the station. If you are late for an expensive flight (possibly due to train delays) this is the last thing you need.
They know they are going to catch a lot of people out. An on board inspector might miss a fair few as it will take them time to explain the situation and issue the penalty fare. Also, if you’re on a train and you can hear this going on, you might twig and buy a ticket in your phone, so more lost penalty fares. The queue suits them as it maximises the penalty revenue.
@@pete1942 what a sad state of affairs but I tend to agree with you. They are not trying to help passengers or give them a chance to correct their mistake. They are actively seeking revenue from penalties.
@charleswhite758 They absolutely should. It would be very easy to direct anyone who joined the wrong queue to the correct one. And from the sounds of it. They have enough inspectors present to have 2 queues and someone directing you to the correct one before you join.
@charleswhite758 yes seems like that. If I was going to miss a flight I'd barge through too. Its not like their trains are ever on time... they should be handing cash back to the passengers 😂
Exactly my thought but the answer is obvious. Why charge people the fair price of a normal ticket when you can treat them like a criminal that needs to pay a much more expensive fine?
Because there's not as much profit in it for them! If the money didn't go to the train operator, that'd remove the incentive and they'd just do that...
The fact that they’re completely aware of a failure in the system but do absolutely nothing about it, other than gang up ready for the London passengers, shows it’s nothing less than a money making scheme. Disgraceful behaviour towards its customers.
@@Bungle2010 the message isn't clear and obvious enough. The rail company should be more proactive in its approach to solving the issue rather than rake in revenue off innocent travellers who've made a "genuine mistake." Why not arrange to stop and check for valid tickets BEFORE their journey starts? BTW, I've no sympathy for fair dodgers.
Forget the fines, the legal tickets cost to get to Standard is criminal, it cost me £26 for a 35 minute train ride to get to "London" Stansted to get a 2 hour "flight" to Germany that cost £19 thats nuts, UK greed and pricing is disgusting what are we doing?, this type of stuff is destroying the country
If you can't get there on contactless or Oyster, the airport should be legally forced to drop "London" from its name. That goes for Southend and Luton (and even more ridiculously Lydd and Oxford).
i disagree, but there definetely should be some restriction, like 'london ashford airport' is closer to france than london 💀 additionally, not everyone gets the train to the airport
I understand your sentiment, but unlike Stansted, Luton Airport is a place you can get on an Oyster/contactless, using mulitple train operating companies, same as for Gatwick and Heathrow, including on their respective "Express" services. Southend is supposed to get contactless/Oyster in spring.
@@wolf2965 luton has no oyster and no PAYG at all on the dart, heathrow's barriers (at paddington platform 6-8) literally says 'no oyster or contactless' and my contactless card didnt work anyway, i dont know about gatwick
I grew up on this line. My family live in Stansted Mountfitchet, the little town one station away from Stansted Airport. The Express has been experimenting for years with this system. The ticket machines at Liverpool Street have been reduced and now are at the opposite end of the station to the Express platforms. They use minimal signage at the platform barriers and it's deliberately understaffed - the workers at the gate generally wave you through even if you don't touch in. They don't even have inspectors on the trains most of the time (they used to but got rid of them). They just use an army of inspectors at the airport end to hit the travellers with fines. Ker-ching!
This is such an obvious racket. In any other country this would be grounds for a class action lawsuit, and the company forced to pay compensation to everyone affected by this scam.
I had a similar situation. I used my Apple Pay to tap in at fenchurch street station. I took the C2C service to benfleet. I was then met at benfleet with ticket officers who issued a fine due to it not being a contactless station. Stated I should of got off the train tapped out of the barriers at barking then walked back around bought a ticket and re boarded the next train to my destination. It sounds extremely stupid and as a 16 year old at the time, my father thought that it’s unacceptable to ask me to leave the train station and then re-enter etc… so when the fine wasn’t paid we was summoned to court where we got our solicitors involved. The judge ruled it was misleading and unfair. The case was dropped. We then summoned C2C to court for how misleading it was and taking advantage of people. There legal team was quick to make a out of court settlement with us where one of the conditions was they would put more appropriate and visible signage up of the non-contactless stations. Shame to see this sort of stuff is still going on. If anyone fancies a legal battle I’d say you stand a good chance. They will soon make the changes required when they realise it’s all going wrong for them.
even if i did understand the stansted issue (which i dont) this is even worse. why would they let you travel a whole hour, 34 miles, close to the beach on contactless? thats common sense. c2c also has announcements at upminster or something
@@mudchute4dlr why would they not? For example if I put my elderly nan on the train at London using her contactless card why would she then be expected to get off, leave the station, re-enter the station and then reboard the next available train. They know what they are doing is wrong that’s why 1) the judge ruled it in our favour and 2) if they thought what they were doing was correct they would of thought back or appealed on the counterclaim which they didn’t.
@@TheDrew1234able you dont touch in with contactless in the first place? its really obvious that the southend area is too far to be in the PAYG fare zone
@@mudchute4dlr but why would I not use contactless when it’s the easiest option and it’s working at the departure station? You must understand where I’m coming from, there’s no malice behind it. I just tap in and think I can tap Out at the other end
@@TheDrew1234able because of what I said, I'd you have common sense you would know that 30 miles from London is too far to accept contactless in the first place. the fact that it works at london fenchurch doesn't change the fact that common sense exists
This issue is easy to resolve. Just charge the additional fare to passengers exiting at Stansted station by employing tap to exit for the passengers using contactless payments or insert the paper ticket for passengers who purchased the fare upfront.
It would be a lot easier if the barriers were programmed to prevent customers going to Stansted from leaving the station. Customers would then have to buy a ticket.
@@Bungle2010 why not the entire railway system have a universal set price for all routes then.... its hard for some tourists who can easily get mistaken, so don't get why your being so edgy and blunt
Shhh rags is fighting for the poor oppressed London holiday maker who spends most the grain journey saying how much they hate stansted as it’s tacky etc and so beneath them normally 😊
It's a revenue stream for Stansted municipality and they won't be giving it up soon. The fact that they employ a dozen ticket checking agents and enforcers (paying their wages) would indicate that they are making good money from it.
Just got back from the Netherlands. Managed to travel across the entire country on buses, trains, trams etc all even in the most remote areas, with my card. Contactless is the norm and a country like the UK needs to catch
There are even different tariffs between all public transport operators, but there are always card readers or gates when you transfer between them with clear signing.
what missing from this report: when on the train you hear announcement about Oyster & contactless pagy isn't expected at Stansted Airport. If have a smart phone you could buy a ticket before arriving at Stansted airport
The problem with that is, that having tapped in to get on the train you would still need to tap out somewhere to avoid a penalty charge on your Oyster or debit card. Not sure what the amount is but it's important, if tap in then you have to tap out, at some point. Tapping in then buying a ticket on your smart phone effectively is like buying 2 tickets. Probably still cheaper than the fine though.
@@robinpunter4377 If you tap in, but fail to tap out, you are charged the maximum fare for the day. You can get a refund though, if you have a valid excuse. In this instance, you could say you tapped in by mistake and provide your ticket to Stansted as evidence
If there are plenty of people - with a salary - on the other end to collect, it means that the company operating the Standsted Express knows what is happening. However, they do not care, as they have placed signage, and have the perfect arguments. To be honest, as a citizen, I find that unacceptable! This is a (formal) scam.
That's because at the entrance there's about 17 different platforms, most of which allow contactless and oyster payments for the journeys, hence why all barriers allow you to tap in. You can't just put a handful of inspectors checking all 17 platforms, so it's better to put them at the end of the destination where only 1 type of ticket is accepted. It's common sense.
The issue is that the trains stop in london (which was conveniently ignored in this broadcast) which is why they let you on so there *is* a reason. Obviously they could not stop the trains at Tottenham Hale but that's one of the main routes to Stansted. BUT allowing contactless all the way would solve everything tottaly agree with that so they *do* need to sort it out. London is no worse than anywhere else in this regard though, try the Rome bus system...
Although you can say that it is passengers' responsibility to read the sign, the "Red Army" at the exit shows that Greater Anglia has the intention to set up this tourist trap and earns thousands of extra money from it. What a disgrace of our railway system NOT putting passenger first!
@@grassytramtracksor if they queue up to tap out via the inspectors. They’d just buy a ticket on their phone if they knew they were about to get caught.
I encountered this on the rail from London to Hildenborough. Announcement in train at last station for contactless made me get off, run around with my baggage and find tickets to continue. Very difficult for tourists.
I‘m not a big fan of Stansted, but if you get flights to Germany or whatever for less than £20, I‘d consider going to Stansted. I mean, what are the alternatives? A minimum £100 flight from Heathrow or something. But I’ve never got the Stansted Express, it’s just an obvious tourist trap that Greater Anglia uses. National Express is way cheaper and, if you manage to get their newer buses, even more comfy than the train.
What I find so odd as well is that I travel to stations outside London Primally Reading though and Reading is a contactless station and is outside of the London area. So like I would assume no oyster as that's what Reading is but no contactless makes no sense.
WORKING EXACTLY how it was designed!! Not 1 person on the ENTRY SIDE to tell passengers they need a paper ticket, 20 at the final destination with ARMED THUGS to extract 3x the ticket price..... SCAM!
This happened to me at Epsom a good few years ago. When they tried to fine me, I gave them the cost of the ticket, and my contact details only. They sent me a letter saying _"Pay the full fine or we'll take you to court."_ and I replied _"Okay then, let's settle this in court."_ I never heard from them again. I don't know if this strategy would still work. But it might be worth a try if you're feeling belligerent.
That would be fun. Many are tourists and have foreign addresses and residence. The |Stansted Express staff cannot 'arrest' or detain people and would need to have a permanent police presence to do so, which the BTP would not fund. It would be interesting to see how they would proceed with court summonses to someone not resident in the UK!
@@11nitrox Yeah, as I understand it, the only crimes are: Deliberately evading the fare. Or refusing to give the inspector your true contact details. So I think even the transport police can't detain you simply for having the wrong ticket.
In Glasgow when getting on the train, and the ticket machine is broken, and no inspector comes on the train. You arrive at Glasgow Central with no ticket, you have two choices, buy your ticket at one of the machines. Or head to the gate, with no ticket and get fined, plus fare. Now if you think, I will cheat with the ticket machine, and put in the wrong outward journey, the tickets inspector will know this to be fraudulent. As they know stations are manned, and the ticket machines work So why cant Stansted do something similar, and allow passengers to buy tickets, and avoid the penalty
Are the ticket barriers actually, as the report says, 'Stansted Express barriers' or just ordinary barriers used to access various platforms at London Liverpool Street station. If it's the latter, then there's nothing that can be done about it unless Stansted Airport becomes part of the PAYG area. To completely prevent passengers for Stansted Airport from touching in, TfL would have to deactivate Oyster card and contactless card payments on all ticket barriers, but since Greater Anglia serves dozens of stations within the PAYG area, that's not an option.
True. Plus not only does the ticket barrier have access to multiple platforms, the Stansted Express train itself calls at stations before the airport that do accept contactless payment
You can use contactless on the Stanstead Express between Liverpool St and Tottenham Hale, and it is the quickest way to get between those two stations.
As someone reasonably suggested in another comment. If you want to call yourself a "London" airport, I think you should be obliged to join the PAYG area.
if money came out of your account for tapping then its they that are breaking their own rules. ie you paid in good faith, take it to court or appeal, the fact that they are fining you means they think you are guilty before been given chance to prove innocence. its disgusting.
But that’s not how it works. You won’t have paid the correct fair. Hence the fine. This isn’t a pay what you like service. It’s a specified train with a specific ticket requirement.
@@007floppyboyI suspect there is nowhere to tap out at Stansted, so the maximum daily charge for not being able to do that, may apply too. effectively paying twice for the first part of the journey. I wonder what they would do if you argue you just want to pay from where the TFL zones end, and just need a ticket for the remainder of the journey. Agreed about the so called 'fines' 👍
I have to pay more for Stansted Express than my plane ticket to London. That is already ludicrous. Fortunately I managed to navigate the UK rail system without getting fined, but I admit it can be confusing with dozens of train operators on the same tracks, some tickets are interoperable others not, off-peak, on-peak, advance etc.And the ticket prices? That alone feels like getting fined for having the audicity of using public transit.
Don’t give them your name. If you do you will be fined. Happened to me, they said they will call the police, I noticed two police officers and shouted them over and explained what’s happened. I was offered to pay my original fare, no fine, no details given to anyone. Never give any details whatever they say.
As people are tapping in but not tapping out they will be charged the maximum fare for the day. They may be able to get a refund. A maximum of three refunds a month can be claimed if you have a valid reason.
If their bully boys put their hands on you or stop you leaving it’s assault and you call the police and press charges. Plus, you are not obligated to pay any respective fine on the spot. You have 14 days. This is illegal.
Surely it’s cheaper to just enable contactless touch in and out than employ an army of “collectors” and “enforcement agents”, make it make sense Department for Transport 😂
@@jezp1976 Given the Department for Transport is a government agency, I don’t think they are profit motivated. Instead, they’re just being lazy and hoping no one with a voice that matters says anything about it
That would require uniform contactless payments at every station in the country. Stansted travellers don’t all live crammed around Liverpool Street station.
@@jezp1976 Abellio are not the ones who install the gates at either end, that is the responsibility of the Department for Transport. Abellio is just capitalising on the situation that the DfT allows to happen
1:09 it literally says on the ground that you can’t use contactless or oyster on stanstead services. The reason you can touch in there is because other Greater Anglia and even overground services leave from Liverpool Street and you can use contactless on them. Our railway ticketing system is a minefield but please at least try to do your research... in London you’re lucky that the system does all the working out for you, here in the Home Counties we have to guess whether it’s off peak, super off peak, peak, HS1, non HS1, etc etc.
When you're not looking for this putting a sigh on the floor won't help. There are countless signs all over that people stopped paying attention to them, unless they are looking for something specific. When you're able to use contactless everywhere and you get to the train station to go to a London airport you won't look for a sigh to see if you can pay with contactless for this specific train, especially when the fare gates have a contactless option and that you see others use it. Blaming the passengers is not the way to go.
@@AL5520 Yup, exactly! I was a bit on the fence but the mayor and guy at the end had a great point, if you’re gonna call yourself a London airport then you should act like a London airport. Literally everything in London is done by contactless usually using your phone, and when I say literally everything, I really mean… (strike that) am only be very slightly hyperbolic. Food, drink, pubs, trains, cabs, buses, bikes, stupid cable car things, boats, trams, shops, even homeless people, and beggars and a million other things all use contactless. Heard the phrase: Cash is King? Well not in London, Apple Pay & Google Pay rule the streets here, with Mastercard, Visa, & Amex contactless not far behind. So, the mindset of any Londoner would be: If contactless card open gate, contactless card okay. I do good. I buy ticket. No fine. Then as the guy I’m replying to also mentioned you have the signs, and their point is so perfect it needs nothing added to it, there are so many bloody signs everywhere, you can’t read all of them and your sorts tuned out to most of them. Since they’re usually irrelevant to you, or say something stupid and obvious. Plus, there’s always signs that say “buy a ticket or face a penalty fare”. But once again: Contactless card open gate. Contactless card okay. I buy ticket. No fine. Also, there may be other platforms but these are the Stansted Express branded gates.
Also correct me if I’m wrong, as I usually use KC & St.P or Euston and I haven’t taken a train for L.St Station for a while, but aren’t the platforms separated as well. Like not completely but for example you go through one gate and once you go through your locked into an area (essentially) made up of say 5 platforms, maybe 10, which is why if you get it wrong you then need to ask the person at barrier nicely to let you out so you can go to the right area? Which makes it feel like a specific standard express area, so to speak. Again though, I haven’t been to L. St Station for ages, I can picture it in my head but it’s mixed up with the last time I went there about 2 years ago and then the hundreds of times over the last 28 years, which is why I still sometimes think the 214 ends up there. Poor 214, at least it still exists, my beloved C2 sadly went out to pasture.
@@hunyesmith03 Stansted express trains share platforms with london overground and other greater Anglia services all which have some form of contactless acceptance due to them stopping at other stations within the london fare zones additionally many Stansted Express trains stop at Tottenham hale which you can use contactless for
You can absolutely use oyster on Stansted Express between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale, and even Northumberland Park is Spurs are playing at home and they stop the trains there.
I get why you can use contactless on Stansted Express, as people may just use it to hop between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale. Whilst yes, it does say no contactless to Stansted, i do think fining people for it is a tad harsh, when it should really just be the fare they have to pay. Though ideally, contactless really ought to go to Stansted sooner, as this is a easily fixable mistake.
Other people have said that contactless/Oyster IS valid on Stansted Express between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale. That makes this doubly confusing.
@@Bungle2010 Confusing for some people as Stansted is known as"London Stansted" so obviously it could be mistaken for being in the travel card zone. But obviously pedantic people like would phrase everything as "Oh but Everybody should Be Born knowing this". What a load of wibble you spew
Interestingly some operators are a lot more lenient. Northern have penalty fares but usually if you take the initiative to find the train guard and ask to buy a ticket, they'll just sell you the ticket. Or equally you hop on and buy an eticket on your phone... don't get me wrong, there are a couple of arsey guards, but most of them know it's less stress to just sell John Who Doesn't Use The Trains Very Often a valid ticket at walk-on rate, and save the penalty fares for the deliberate and repeat offenders.
@@electrickery Which is absolutely nothing like we're talking about here is it. Doesn't use trains often is a poor excuse. It's called common sense and using the eyes you were born with............
@@mudchute4dlr I won’t use it because For me, Heathrow and Gatwick are cheaper to get to. Plus I don’t need to piss about buying extra train tickets when you can just use contactless, even if there are signs in your face and announcements.
This has caught me out too. They know exactly what they’re doing, it’s essentially legalised robbery. The “signage” is pathetic. Tottenham Hale is even worse than Liverpool Street.
I think Tottenham Hale has changed recently. The signage there is more prominent than at Liverpool Street. It made me stop in my tracks as a normal ticket holder.
@@aspuzlingI’ll check it out next time - I do hope so! Though early at TH sometimes you’re directed not via the main entrance too and instead walk straight up to platform on a side staircase. Not sure when/why that occurs.
@@Bungle2010 Shame the rail company Greater Anglia they are making a great deal of money out of genuine travellers. Perhaps they should employ staff to tell people before boarding the train rather than lots of staff to collect fines and ticket monies at the other end 🤔
Well, sounding like a NR train in london, you board contactless if you travel withing the payg area, or take a ticket if you go beyond. You are suposed doing your due diligence before boarding, what's different with stansted?
This is similar to how local councils entrap motorists. It’s effectively fraud by those in authority, i.e. using deceptive means to extract money. Because it raises huge amounts of money, those in power have no incentive to change the system. Unfortunately, such misbehaviour by those in power is becoming commonplace in the UK now.
This is not the same. Sorry but you are attaching a totally different level of enforcement. Traffic signage has to follow very strict statutory guidelines to be deemed sufficient to enforce restrictions. Most councils make very little actual profit from traffic enforcement and this is not the same at all.
@corneliussmiff2773 wrong my local council have had nearly 1 million in fines for a time restricted right turn. That a lot of people don't know about.
@@empressdoinalot I can't be wrong, what I said was a fact. Local authorities are bound by very strick statutory regulations when it comes to signage and road markings etc. If they do not meet these requirements or are found to be defective then the said authority gets in a lot of trouble.Just because your local authority had nearly one million in Penalty Charge Notices (not fines by the way) does not seem it as insufficient, and if those people didn't know about it, than it's their own fault. However, IF the signage or markings were defective under the statutory requirements, then this is a different issue and the authority would be under alot of scrutiny and can be challenged.
Clearly the signs are not as visable as they should be, when a massive crowd those floor notices would be all covered up, overhead warnings are totally needed fora start
tell me, where do you look at when you are touching your contactless or oyster card on the reader? you look at the reader, right? so why can't you read the big fat text on the reader that says 'stop' at least, then stop to read the other four words? its not difficult. the top half of the reader with the text also has a red background which is more attracting to the brain or something like that
@@mudchute4dlr Why design a ticket gate with a touch reader, specifically designed to speed people through and then expect people to stop before going through? Why have a ticket gate which beeps and opens, like all the other ticket gates in London, when you present a valid PAYG card or Oyster and expect people to know that on this specific occasion the gate opening does not mean their ticket is good for travel? Why have such a confusing rule for one London airport that doesn't apply to most of the others? Why plaster the gate stanchion and paddles with advertising if you want people to focus on the tiny reader instead? Why not sell tickets on the train if you know thousands are passing through with out realising they haven't paid properly? Why? Because Stansted Express know they are onto a money spinner and have no intention of doing anything to provide a better service, when they can employ a phalanx of uniformed goons to fleece customers of their money on arrival at Stansted. I wonder if those staff get a bonus the more they take? I wonder if that bonus would disappear if they just sold regular tickets at the airport instead of imposing penalty fares...
Unfortunately people expect staff/government to hold their hand and drag them onto the train and do everything for them. Passenger mentality on British railway really has fallen off the cliff@@mudchute4dlr
The relevant management is at fault; they are either allowing this to happen on purpose, or they aren't up to the job of setting up the system correctly. In either case they aren't up to the job and should be sacked. Anyone involved who has authority over this and is doing nothing to fix it should be sacked too. Rotten people. Useless people. Causing unnecessary pain for decent people.
This is crazy and completely unacceptable. It's simply not fair to expect international travelers to know this rule. Something must be done urgently by the government to put a end to this.
It's a bit of a journey to Stansted airport from Liverpool street station. We should have a second barrier at this platform for the Stansted express train. Then people who are traveling using an oyster card would not allow them to pass.
London has one of the most confusing tickets options I've seen anywhere. As a tourist, do you get TravelCard, do you use Oyster pay as you go with day cap ? What is capped in day cap, what is not, what about weekly (or monthly cap) that is recalculated well after the fact ?
There seems to be a purge on everyone at the moment to part people with their money when things are difficult as they are. This could be soon remedy by putting contactless in place for stansted the same way it was for London Gatwick
Thank you for this, its been a burden for years, don't stop there, dig a little and you will find that this is very lucrative as they have KNOWN about this for quite awhile and the decision to continue this came from way up the chain. May I suggest a Public information request, specifically the board members.. just to say they will not revel all, but will give you an idea how far this goes. ~Trooper
The fact that there are legions of people at ten airports, and none making the point at the London end tells you all you need to know about these crooks. This is entrapment pure and simple.
Something similar happenned to me when travelling from London to Oxford with a ticket, I bought online. There are those machines, where you are supposed to make one additional step to obtain your actual ticket, which I did not know, the instructions in the e-mail were very vague and hidden in the fine print below an advertisement. There were no barriers on the stations and the ticket inspector demanded that I buy another ticket. Trains in Britain are shameful, overpriced tourist traps. But so is Stansted airport - one giant tourist trap, whose managers hate their customers and make sure that the travellers will suffer at every step.
You mean the 'very' vague statement 'Collect your ticket before you board with this code # and you original payment card from the automated ticket machines or booking office'. Yeah i can see how that would confuse 'some' people.🤦♀
they shouldnt need to put any signs for journeys on the great west or chiltern main lines as its pretty obvious reading and beyond on great west, and amersham and beyond on chiltern, is realky far out of london and should not accept contactless
A blind man on a galloping horse can see all the signs that say you can't go contact less to Stansted. Possibly a slow news day? By the same token it seems totally ridiculous that you can't tap in and out.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 can you read when you are stressed? yes. so why cant people read the four words on signs (in which there are in fact too many of) that say no oyster or contactless?
There are so many signs at Liverpool St and Tottenham Hale. There are A boards everywhere and often staff at the barriers advising people. Of course the barrier lets you through they are not Stansted only barriers. All that said it’s a disgrace that you can’t use contactless to the airport like others
Totally agree, i used a wheely laptop case , the guard at Tottenham Hale stopped me because he thought i was going to the airport and was going to tell me i needed a ticket. When i told him where i was going he was fine.
So, it tells you on the signs, on the website, on the departure board and is announced on the train….but it’s everyone’s fault except the person who chose to ignore all of that 🤷♂️ You can use oyster to get through the barriers at Kings Cross but that doesn’t mean it’s valid for travel to Edinburgh.
They could have a ticket inspector on each train to check if each passenger has a ticket and if not sell them one - or make a seperate barrier for the Stanstead express where you cannot use contactless but have to use a paper ticket - but both would not make them as much money as the fines imposed on people who have made a genuine mistake (just a thought)!
stansted express have their own barriers. The thing is that you can't force people going to tottenham hale go an hour one route instead of taking the stansted express
4:35 isnt there a way to calculate the profiteering by companies issuing 'fines' as they will contribute to the companies' accounts - especially as the Government now have financial responsibility directly over the railways?
I work as an independent auditor and travel this route weekly. There are audio messages warning contactless is not valid beyond Tottenham Hale and there are untold signs all over. The more important thing is that contactless is limited to the travelcard zones with SOME exceptions. If you just make the assumption that you are going 50 minutes outside London and it is on the travelcard zone without checking when Stansted does not appear on any tube map then it really is the persons own fault and they need to take some responsibility.
This has to be an incredibly lucrative station. You just need to place a few people at the end to collect fines and almost automatically you will make huge profits out of it. Legally, no one can say anything about it, because there are signs. Obviously, as the huge number of people who have been fined shows, a lot of people don‘t notice those signs, perhaps due to the large amount of signs and ads all around us each day, perhaps because tapping in and out is something many people do so often each day that it has become an automatic action, handled on a subconscious level. If you are making so much money out of fining people who have no intention of boarding a train without a ticket, you are a scammer though. Not legally, just morally. But of course, private train companies won’t care about that. A problem like that can only be solved politically.
Last week it took me 20+ minutes to get through the queue and get into the airport, as they manually checked every single passenger. Clearly the fines are just a scheme to profit from unsuspecting customers, as one should just be able to tap out and pay the right train fee. Problem is the price of a ticket can change depending on when you buy it, so the journey one day could cost £12 and another day it could cost £24. Plus they would not be able to profit from 1st class tickets if available. Although there were plenty of signage and alerts before getting on the train and within the train as well telling people not to use contactless to travel to the airport.
What they really need to do is have an "express" queue where you can pay 100 pounds to skip the inspection line, and just go through to catch your flight on time.
Theres an awful lot of transport companies out there at the moment trying to cash in on poor signage and screw standard customers. Its an utter disgrace.
Yes. I see this pattern repeatedly. A surface covered with hundreds of signs, making it impossible to read all of them. And then people being fined for disobeying one of them, and told _"You should've read the sign."_
@@andybrice2711 "Hundreds"? 🤔 The signs are OBVIOUS. And I've yet to ger a satisfactory explanation as to why anyone would expect to use a train without buying a ticket........
@@Bungle2010 Yeah, just look at the quantity of text which covers every wall in most stations. It makes it very difficult to prioritize information. And it's highly unusual to use train tickets in London. The whole city uses contactless payments for all transport now. Including three of its airports. Even though two of them are not in London. So it would be quite reasonable to assume that Stanstead is the same. (As it should be.)
People walk into these traps like zombies staring at their phones and believing the world is a contactless payment paradise. And companies are taking advantage of this, as we see here.
Absolute knackers. My daughter was fined for going one stop beyond ticketed and fined £100 for the mistake. Do NOT go to London if this is the way they treat out of towners. The fact that the company keeps the money makes this "fine" a source of revenue for a private company intent on soaking up profits with scant regard for the travelling public.
Ridiculous trap - the ticket inspectors should be identifying this common mistake and selling passengers the correct ticket without penalty, as is standard across most other rail services. The passengers are not maliciously or deliberately evading the fare, they believe they have paid!
I had an experience with Stansted express (years ago). I asked if I could pay on board on the platform at Stansted and they said yes. I boarded and arrived in London but the collector had too many people and never got to me. I ended up leaving the train and went to their ticket office and bought a ticket for the journey I had taken! Which confused the hell out of the ticket office :) They are incompetent and probably doing this to compensate for not being in control. Alex.,
And if there was no barrier at Liverpool Street, you’d have walked out and got away without paying. You’re hardly gonna wander around the station looking for somewhere to pay for the journey you just made, are you? You can’t get on a plane or a bus without a ticket, so why do think it’s acceptable to get on a train without a ticket? No wonder rail fares are extortionate!
@@mrmofthegower3926 Firstly the rail guy said I can buy on the train. That also works in Germany for some trains so is normal for some cultures. As for barriers, there were none. I was already off the platform and on the main concourse and I had to hunt for the ticket office to pay. No one stopped me. Yes I do pay for what I get even if I am not controlled.
@@mrmofthegower3926 in and in some cases for a considerable way outside London, a contactless or oyster is a ticket, people are obviously not trying to dodge the fare
Good to see the London tavelwatch guy is up to date. you can travel to heathrow using contactless but if you want to use the heathrow express you have to buy an actual ticket. Tube, Elizabeth line and buses all allow contactless. All express airport services require tickets, same as London Luton, you cant use contactless there either.
HEx takes contactless and Oyster, it's why they have to use the separate platforms at Paddington to allow for differently-set gates. Luton you can use contactless to now but not Oyster. Gatwick Express takes both and has done for a few years now. Similar situation to Paddington with the gates at Victoria.
@@intercity125 I've just checked the map on TFL's website and Luton is outside the contactless zone. Luton Airport (Parkway) is the limit for contactless.
@@dazzlingdaz187 one extra stop doesn't mean it's not express. if you were correct, TPE wouldn't be express. and the service from aberdeen to penzance is 36 stops and also an express service
Okay, but are they JUST Stansted Express Barriers? (They do also have a crap ton of signage that is visible but okay sure, yes could easily be missed especially if you’re on your way to an airport which is already stressful enough…) Or are they simply barriers that happen to lead to the Stansted Express as well as other platforms? If it’s the former, fine, if it’s the latter then idk, if they don’t Accept they don’t accept. Sure, they should take contactless payments, but if they don’t, or can’t, or whatever (which also makes sense given how train fares work), then what exactly do you expect them to do? The London airport classification argument does actually make sense though, if you’re gonna be a London Airport then you should act like a London Airport…
I think they are just Stansted Express barriers, but, you can take the train to Tottenham Hale from there, and contactless is valid on that part of the route.
@@katrinabrycethey are not only Stansted Express barriers. All services on that set of platforms are accessible through any barrier - including services wholly within the oyster zone and other partial ones (that go further than just Tottenham Hale)
They could just charge them for a ticket and not fine them. I’m assuming the barriers at Stansted would not let you through via contactless. When the barrier doesn’t open, you find a member of staff, who sells you a ticket or directs you to someone who can. The purpose of fines is to deter fare dodging, which used to be much easier before barriers were introduced. In this case it seems like fare dodging is pretty much impossible without jumping the barrier.
im not sure about liverpool street but at paddington, london st pancras int'l and victoria, each operator has it's own set of platforms, at london st pancras the luton airport express is platform 1, at paddington its platform 6-8 for heathrow express, at victoria i think its 13/14 for the gatwick express, i assume its specific platforms for stansted
2 Stansted ticket inspectors held up an entire London train that had just alighted, just to check tickets. I waited an extra 8 or 9 minutes to get out of the bloody station. At least have more inspectors if you're gonna do these operations.
