Funny enough, we do actually use 0 point tasks on my team. We don't use them for tasks that require work though. They're typically for milestones or handoffs.
lmao that sucks you actually you have to use a point/ticket system to get things done of basically unknown difficulty lmao. The amount of times I had to spend extra time debugging code someone more Senior than me wrote is hilarious, if I then had to listen to someone who can barely add two two-digit numbers tell me how long it should have taken I would literally delete the entire repository and quit
We have someone like her in our company She has absolutely no understanding whatsoever of our product, how it works, the technology we use, and even less about the various laws and regulations we are subject too (which is a lot, we basically have to make changes to our system to adapt to new regulations on a yearly basis). And that person is in charge of leading the project to modernise our product, and she is a nightmare to work with. She will change people's role almost weekly (I have coworker who is now part of 5 different 'comittees'), she wants us to become agile, even though it makes no sense with our product, and more. It's insane how much everyone wants to see her fail.
When somebody at our place writes a card the story points get put in by the worker and if something is odd, it is discussed during sprint change. It rarely ever happens. And mostly than, it is a misunderstanding of the task.
It's always Jared. Last Jared I worked with gave me a word of advice when he quit. No matter what you do, this place always has and will always be a dumpster fire. Haha
Literally this: "value people over processes", first principle of the agile methodology. Drives me mad every time I hear someone complain about scrum or some such and the entire complaint is "my team had this one process I didn't like doing and I didn't mention it in any retro's so that it never got changed"
Oh he's furious, he's just calm and collected. That and jaded. He knows that they are immune to logic so why try to fight it, just play their stupid game.
Oh believe me dude is one step away from a jail sentence mad, but if you work under IQ light PMs like Cindy you learn how to keep your composure, even if every fiber in your body wants to smash her head through her desk while yelling at her about how much of an idiot she is.
@@amethyst8399 a "story" or "user story" is the description from the customer of the change they want, which night require several development tasks to complete (eg. front and back-end changes). "Story points" allow you to compare stories to one another without having to estimate how long they will take, which is fraught with problems. Ie. A story of 2SP is twice the size of one that's 1SP and half(ish) of one that's 5SP
@@amethyst8399 A marketing "genius" came up with a way to track time spent without consulting the developer that will need to create the code base to get the job done. TLDR "Agile" is for managers that have never written code.
@@ShimmyXA nice redemption arc would be nice. Kinda like her learning to code some fun stuff because hrr nephew or someone asked for help in a school project and she's actually a nice person outside of her job or something like that.
I’ve worked both ways and literally the only thing that matter is that you respect developers. They’ll let you know if there’s too much shit in the sprint.
1 story point is about 4 solid hours of work for an experienced coder assuming they use the system correctly, so it’s usually 2 story points per day per experienced coder. The fact he said he can do that in 2 days (4 story points) means he’s a god level coder in universe. Refrsctoring code is essentially updating the entire base code to optimize it further without changing functionality.
@@Freetheinternet4lifeno. It is whatever the team decides it is. Then you will see how many points you complete on average. Can't be compared between teams, and can drift over time in a single team which is not a problem.
I just code and refactor whenever I'm doing anything its just part of coding. If you get to the point where you need to do a big deliberate refactor you've already effed up.
Jared kinda triggered my PTSD from first PM job. Our CTO was a burnt-out middle aged man who loves being passive aggressive with me when I was unrealistic in my requests. It didn’t help me to become better PM; it made me cry for days without understanding on how to actually help dev team AND make the stakeholders happy. We ended up firing this guy for being toxic, and promoted shy introverted guy who later became a gem in our company. Helped me and bunch of other younger hires to evolve.
As much as I respect someone for being able to use wit to indirectly insult someone instead of swearing, that only applies if swearing was warranted to begin with. Which based upon your comment it most likely wasn't. However don't hate the tool, hate the tool that uses the tool.😊
Agile can be good, just not when it is micromanaged by PMs who have 0 idea about the actual work they manage. Also it's less the fault of Agile in general and mostly the fault of Sprints, because Sprints are a dumb system from the ground up, because it wants you to estimate the exact workload the team will finish in a given timeframe, which is just never gonna happen, especially not in programming, so you just end up having a lot of pointless planning meetings. Where I worrk we have a Kanban system and our Jira board is mostly managed by my team lead who is also a developer, and it works just fine.
Unless you get paid by story point it doesn’t matter. Assess how long it’s likely to take, tell the manager / team lead / PO and let them make the decision. They can put however many points they want on it. It’s irrelevant for anything other than planning.
I've never heard of storypoints until these videos. I eventually learned they were just abstractions of how much effort you think something is, which I thought was to make it easier, but it has to be a Fibonacci number? Wtf?
The only people who should assign values to a task are the people who actually understand what is necessary to complete the task. I've heard horror stories of managers setting the values and the devs having zero say in the decision. That, of course, meant that nothing ever got completed in the time the managers expected.
Construction worker here, and small buisness owner, what the hell are “story points” I really hope your vids are satire but I have a feeling they’re not lmao
IT was taken over by a plague called AGILE. AGILE was created so that people who have nothing to do, feel important, so they make up meetings and assign values to tasks. So instead of saying "Yeah, this one task would take me 2 days to complete." Instead we say "Yeah, this task is 1 story point" Why? Because if it's not over complicating what's not complicated, then corporate ain't BSing enough
Story points are a way to quazi quantify an amount of work to complete a certain feature. Each team use them differently and 1 story point has a different meaning in terms of effort from team to team. Using it in construction terms (forgive me, I am just amateur DIY'er): building a divider wall from plaster and wood may just be 1 story point for you, but building a load-bearing wall of the same size from brick, mortar and steel, would be a 5 or 7 story point endeavor (for example).
as an example where I work a story point is more or less "a days worth of work" though other companies can define it differently. a major problem can be that a story point to one developer could be several to another or a task could involve another specialty like if you need 10 story points for "a room to be finished" but that involves quantifying how much time between a carpenter electrician and plumber. there are good practices to make this not nearly as bad as the video makes it out to be but it's hardly a perfect system that some people use as if there was no nuance
Story points are what happens when you need to explain why programming is hard, to someone who can't be arsed to understand the discipline for themselves
I'm a product owner. The number of story points I put on a story is exactly equal to the answer to the question, "[engineers], how many story points is this?" and they're gonna guess wrong sometimes. And that's OK. I'll manage the expectations, devs manage the work.
"Youll just have to do it outside of your working hours" aaand THAT is how jared gets an easy lawsuit if he gets fired for not doing it. In the us you cannot legally be asked by your employer to do something outside of your scheduled work hours. Its an easy open and shut case
See, the problem here is that she shouldn't be setting stories, let alone story points. She should actually be setting features. Then the dev leader for that project (the "product owner" sets stories to achieve that. Then the devs adjust sorry points a needed. This is just micromanagement issues
Sounds strange. How would a product owner be a team lead? Or did I misunderstand something you wrote? I am assuming she is a scrum master? Then her role is to remove impediments and get her dirty fingers off the board. Besides some administrative tasks she owns nothing in the board.
@@lmoelleb "Product owner" is just silly scrum/agile terminology for a project or team leader. I.e., the person who 'owns' the responsibility for a certain feature (the 'product'). In reality, they don't actually own anything. It would be much better if they didn't try to redefine common terms like a cult. But this is where we are at 🤣
@@JonathanTrevatt you are blaming scrum for the incompetence of your employer. Scrum can't fix incompetence and it is not the goal of scrum to fix the incompetence - it does tend to highlight it though, which I guess is what you see. I understand how hard it is for a company to switch to agile. Specifically when they already have project managers that are just given a new role and 4 hours training by someone who tells the company what they want to hear instead of what they need to hear: there is no place for project managers in scrum. But it is a shame so many developers know so little about software development methodologies that they do not simply see it for what it is - a failed attempt at doing agile.
@lmoelleb You may want to re-read my comments. I'm not blaming scrum for anything 🤣 I said that the redefined terminology os silly. But I did not critique the methodology. In fact, the opposite. I was making the argument that although the scenario portrayed in this video is clearly being presented to criticise scrum, the problem is actually the fault of poor management not doing scrum correctly. I'm reasonably certain that the video shows a bad implementation of it because my dad helped write some of the exams and coursework to become a scrummaster, and he and my brother are currently performing a transformation at my workplace.
It’s so frustrating to see how this team uses story points. They have one main purpose: giving management an educated guess about what is realistic to be done in a sprint. The second purpose is for “debugging” what went wrong with a sprint if the goal was severely missed. That’s it, everything around it is bad management, and should not use story points.
To make the gap more apparent. Say your team usually points with 2, 3, 5, 8, and 13. The difference between a 13 and 2 is significantly larger than between 1 and 5. Thus it changes how your brain thinks of each category even if it logically is the equivalent to tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, tier 4, tier 5. If the work is about the same your good to group them together. Its only for larger gaps that you need to denote the difference. Thus the numbering helps denote that difference.
There is a theory that our gut feeling works well with Fibonacci numbers. Like our brain is hardwired for them. Even small kids with no math education have a pretty good understanding of Fibonacci distances.
To stop people wasting time discussing if it should be 10 or 11 etc. Fibonacci is not the only one you can use, but it gives a reasonable distribution. And don't waste time on getting those "right" either. If people are far apart it could indicate misunderstood complexity - but for example 3 and 8 just have 5 between them, so no big deal. Spend a minute to talk and slam the number on it. If the guy saying 8 has a good reason put 8 on it and move on. If he is not too sure if he really needed 8, then 5 it is.
