I think Patrick and KY are still too young to understand fully the pressure care givers suffer. Too green to emphatise the situation and stress care givers (married with children and busy making a living) are suffering from. Their views might change when they have their own family to take care of on top of taking care of elderly parents who maybe demented or not mobile.
Agree. My mom is in her 80s and v frail physically but very alert mind. It is not easy to keep up with all her medical appointments, making sure she do what the Doctors ask and also to balance my own work and family. Its so easy for the young ppl to say NO! They must be with me but it's bcos they still very young ans don't have to face these problems yet. Observing your own parents doing the caregiving is very different from doing your own caregiving
KY是 too young too naive,相信她大概還是未婚沒小孩,沒嘗試過作為“夾心層”的無奈。時間=金錢,當你把時間都花在全心全意照顧老人家卻賺不到錢的時候,給不了自己生活,給不了老人家好的照顧,也給不了小孩有品質的生活,到頭來大家都是輸家。孝,不是把自己全部都挖出來奉獻給長輩,同理父母給小孩的愛也不是把所有的資源都投在小孩身上而是應該先把自己照顧好讓小孩長大沒有後顧之憂。我也是媽媽,如果將來我小孩把自己所有的羽翼都拔了就為了照顧我待在我身邊,老實說我不會開心因為小孩的未來沒了,她能夠自由地展翅高飛開創自己的人生才是我想看見的。因此我和先生的共識就是在能所力及的範圍對小孩供書教學,但是不能把所有錢都投在小孩身上必須留著一部分養老,或許我們無法給她留下什麼財產但是我們至少可以做到不留負擔給她。 至於另一位男士我很敬佩他親歷親為照顧父親五年,不過我還是不同意養老的責任是小孩為主父母為輔,養老必須是自己本人的責任。人沒有小孩的時候本來就是要為自己的養老計劃負責任的,為什麼有了小孩後就變成是小孩的主要責任呢?
其实只要把想法转变一下,就跟现在很多双薪家庭会把孩子送到保姆家或托儿所的概念一样,让专业的人来暂为照顾,那样才是最好的做法,可以保障父母的安全,也可以让孩子安心,少一点牵挂。孩子可以在放工后、忙完所有自己的事情后、享受了短暂的 me time 后,再去把父母接回家或者出去逛逛,我想这样反而对大家都是比较舒服的,好过让父母在家里只是对着四面墙而已,发生了什么事,孩子都没及时知道,也可能错失了急救的黄金时间,那样才是大大的不孝,造成了自己更大的遗憾呀...
i am from a humble family, my mother (didn't have financial planning when she was young) was sick and required care taker, at one time i got no choice due to work and i send her a a nursing home, but the nursing home did not really do as promised, my mother was neglected and she had mange but cost of monthly fees was rm 3000 that time(2015) which i have to stretch my pocket as much as i can to afford it, and i sacrifice a lot as well to sustain the family, i can't afford to see my mum suffering in the nursing home, therefore i had bring her home and hired a caretaker to take care of her at home after 3 months, although we had change a few care taker, even till now we are still changing from time to time, from my experience on the nursing home in malaysia is not up to standard at that point of time, unless you are loaded to send your elderly to a renown nursing home. again, i am just sharing from my experience, you may differ up to your point of views. thank you
That small girl, she will understand when she go through it (it happened on my in-law). Nowadays new generation parent, alot see nursery differently. I myself planned my my wife, if she go 1st, i'll admit myself to nursery. If I needed care, admit in myself it. Having them by side but without quality time is NOT any better. Just like one of the parent said, having them around but didn't spend the "care" with them, does that mean filial? If today the parent said I want to go nursery but child keep objecting, does that means filial as well given you go against what they want?
Sadly, not only in Msia, countries like Singapore may also with their own senior citizens problems to solve. The current environment in Msia especially in urban areas have been developed until it is tough for family with senior citizens to live comfortably with their family without significant disruption to them. It is sad to see how we are struggling including myself..
Actually in this modern era, quite many countries are facing senior citizens problems Because senior citizens problems will bring a lot of medical burden to the country Therefore, this issue is not only personal issue, is already become national issue
sometimes when your parents said they dont mind if you send them to old folk home, you must first ask yourself do they mean it or just testing you. there is no right or wrong whether you send your parents to old folk home but before doing it you must first ask yourself that you have tried your 110% to take care your parents. i have seen many people that i know regret their decision because they dint manage to see their parents their last moment in live or speak to their parents while their parents still recognise them
所以现在己不必生孩子不必结婚,你投进孩子的錢是白费的,媳婦女婿不会要你的除非你有百万千万过亿身家等继承。现在的一些人一家几口房子都沒多餘房可以给父母,有錢存起來买房養老买优質股更实际。现在有人開始孩子小小放幼兒园,三餐不煮包伙食和外卖,老人一不能自理放養老院,我身边就有人这样。现在的父母真的要自己为自已打算为优先,不然凍过水。 Good to discuss this kind of topic. 可以知道现在的人在想什么做什么。
KY,孝顺是值得表扬的,但千万别到愚孝的地步。也别因为自己的理想主义,把自己看得高高在上,鄙视其他现实主义的人。听她暗讽 (我要表达的是 insinuate,抱歉中文不好) 对方 ‘忘恩负义’ 我还真的有一点气。不是你一意孤行的愚孝就代表是对父母最大的回馈。自己的固执有时反而对父母弊大于利。希望KY可以从中学习。 KY seems to be very close minded. I am not sure if this is a product of her upbringing. But she does seem to take a holier-than-thou (condescending even) attitude, calling those who can't live up to her impossible standards 'ungrateful' ‘忘恩负义’. I really hope she learns something from this discussion. Filial piety is important yes, but don't be 愚孝. Be objective in your assessment, think about what is best for your parents. You might be doing them even more harm and detriment if you INSIST on caring for them, when it's clearly beyond your capacity/capabilities. 养儿防老的概念太过时了,也太自私了。准父母们不应该把准儿女当成养老的计划/保障,这样子对子女太不公平了。没把自己生活/未来打理规划好的人,千万别生孩子。没做好准备的准父母,你们有选择是否要生孩子,但你们未来的孩子倒没法选择是否要出世与你们的残局。
@@stevenyong100 I say close minded because she was completely unwilling to hear the other side out. She sits comfortably saddled on her moral high horse, talking down to those who don't share her view points.
I think that your own perspective only. I dont see her talking down on others, she only express her views, and her views definitely came from values she believe in. Even if she has different views/believe does not mean you can attack her dude. This world is full of different values/believes. Even if so she is close minded, that's her choice and her freedom. I dont think we should attack another person just because they are close minded? If today I dont support LGBT because it wont bring any good to human kind growth in view of aging population, do I need to listen to argument that Im a "closed minded" person? I dont. Fact said LGBT would not solve aging population problem, and I stand on my views. @@lubis1991
@@stevenyong100 I'm not attacking her, I am just pointing things out. She insinuated that those who didn't share her viewpoint were 忘恩负义. Person after person gave reason after reason why it might be suitable to institutionalise an elderly person, but all she got from the exchange was: 'if you send, you're ungrateful'. It is as if she didn't hear a single thing anyone said. If that's not condescension and close-mindedness, I don't know what is. It would be different if she said: 'I hear what you are saying, and I agree that in certain situations it's beneficial to send your folks to a home. But things are different for me.... '. But she didn't, she didn't respond to anything that was said before her. She did not acknowledge any alternative viewpoints. Contrast that with the other panelists, who always consider her viewpoints before offering their own. It's a huge difference. Like you said, it's her choice and freedom. I am literally just pointing out that she's close-minded. I don't understand how you perceived it to be an attack on her.
Overall very good discussion, but the topic is more like a argument between actual fact and moral. It's not really about right or wrong, it should be which one priority, and before any discussion from the topic, it should begin with are you capable or not capable, are you flexible or not flexible. Talking about if you are a working adult, i doubt the time and flexibility available for you to be with your seniors, but on other hand, a wealthy family, are you that person who is willing to take care of your seniors even if you have that time and capability. But bringing up such discussion is good to have something to think of for everyone before it actually happen.
Thanks BBK for this topic, Truthfully speaking, from a macro perspective, all the developing & advanced countries will face an ageing population. In Asia, that would be Japan, while in Europe it is Monaco and Italy. Malaysia will soon go into this ageing population scenario, and despite our advanced health care system, the amount of nursing homes licensed by the government is rather worrying. This means that nursing homes with above average quality facilities will only be accessible to those at the Upper M40 & T20 tier of household income. Or perhaps adults from T20 households can afford a paid caregiver to care for their elderly parents. Also, there is a generational gap between the boomer generation & millennial generation in terms of expectations of "care giving in the senior years". Especially when we are talking about East Asian / Chinese values of filial piety. To bridge this gap, there needs to be trust between parent & child and discussing this sensitive topic with an open mindset. So that, when the time comes, all will be taken care in a smooth manner. It's interesting that while growing up, I always hear about retirement savings & future planning, so what's wrong with future planning for the time when you are not able to take care of your parents and to an extent - your own self?
Personal experience: When my grandfather passed away in 2001 from a stroke, my grandmother was left on her own. Her education level was up to Standard 3 and her literacy rate is poor. She rely a lot on my grandfather after she got married. It was discussed between my father and his 5 siblings, they will take turns to each weekend to care for my grandmother at their respective homes. The old house where my grandparents lived was eventually rented out, so my grandmother took up room permanently at my 4th uncle's house. In the first 10 years, things were alright but eventually dementia slowly crept up on my grandmother. By 2017, it was becoming difficult to care for her because she will have episodes of depression & irritability. Beginning of 2018, the decision was made to send her to a nursing home where she will get the care that she needs. Her children & grandchildren made the effort to visit her each weekend.