nice video, thanks. I have the older 414 TL II and I like it. It reveals everything, especially how bad my room is. I really liked the RE20. I record with a Senn 421 often and it has a similar quality. I really did not like the SE sound. There is a nasal peak in the sound. I typically like ribbons like Coles and Royers so it surprised me.
Thanks so sharing your experience recording saxophone. Yeah, those 414s truly pick up everything, lol. The RE20 definitely reduces the room noise. I don't have a Senn 421, but I know they are great for sax. All the best to you ~ Ricky
Nice comparison. Very relevant with all the short licks on every mic. I like very much the RE20. Right now I did a comparison between: AudioTechnica 4080, Akg c212, Rode Nt2a, and Shure SM7B. I expected that AT4080 to be the best, but I was wondered about AKG that it sounds like has already eq on it (middle freq cut), and a rich body sound. BUT what I don't like its that this AKG has a lot of air in the sound and doesn't have clear articulation. AT 4080 it is very cleare, clean, and smoother than others. I will make a video like yours, and I will post it. Thanks for this video!
Thanks so much for your comment. Good luck with your comparison video, and please send me a link, or post a link when you've completed it (would love to check it out). All the best ~ Ricky
Tanks for shootout: in my opinion for sax recording a combination of re20 on bell plus c414 on sound hole between fingerings left and right hand (not forgott the phase alignment)
Thanks for the comparisons. I'm also a sax player. I have an RE 20, and a Voodoo VR1 and a Warm Audio 87R2 (this mic is way better than Warm Audio's first version of their 87), and my favorite gig mic is my EV Blue Cardinal (they don't make these anymore). I can tell that your recording space is muffled (you use blankets like I do) and that is why you are not getting the best sound out of your VR2. When I put the backside of my VR 1 towards my big wood furniture I get a better sound out of it (not so muffled). You really need a good sounding acoustic room for the condenser mic and the ribbon mic. This is why your RE 20 sounds the best in your video... it isn't picking up so much of the muffled sound... it's picking up more of the sound coming from the sax rather than the muffled sound from the room. Less sensitive mics are always better for bad sounding rooms. I get an amazing natural sound out of my Warm Audio 87R2 in my muffled sounding studio when I close mic my soprano and I don't play too loud. I love playing with a lot of dynamics, so when I use this same mic on my alto and tenor, I hear too much of my terrible sounding room (when I start cranking the volume) because of the sensitivity of this mic. It sounds great in a good room, but not in a bad sounding room. I actually prefer my EV Blue Cardinal over my more expensive RE20 in my bad sounding room and for gigs. It sounds more smooth and very natural. This Blue Cardinal is a condenser mic, but it was made less sensitive than usual for a condenser mic and it was made to be used for close up and for live gigs. It's been my favorite gig mic for over 12 years. You can sometimes find a used one of these for around $100 on eBay or Reverb. I am lucky to have a Lexicon PCM 90 for reverb and that helps so much also. I see your video is over a year old, but I thought I would share my experiences with my mics.
Hi Mark, thanks for the detailed response and insight! Room acoustics are critical, however, I'm always experimenting to see if I can find a good sound from my make-shift studio. I've only ever used my VR2 in my moving blanket studio and still love the sound, but I'm excited to try it out as you mentioned. I've never tried the Warm Audio mics, but they've been on my radar since they came out. Is the 87R2 your favorite on sax out of them all? All the best to you.
@@RickySweum I didn't try all of the Warm Audio Mics, but there are many good demo videos. I could tell from the demos that I didn't like their tube mics. They don't sound natural enough to me. I purchased 3 of their mics. The WA-14, WA-87, WA-87R2. The WA-87R2 is definitely the best for a natural sound. Their first version of the WA-87 is too thin in the midrange and that midrange is what you need for a fantastic sax sound. The WA--14 is a little too course and not refined like a condenser mic should be. It's a very warm sounding mic and it almost sounds like a dynamic mic... it actually sounds better to me than the RE20, but a condenser mic should sound a lot more refined than the WA-14 sounds. I played the AKG C414 a lot between 20 - 25 years ago in nice halls in Europe. I would place it about 2 or 3 feet away and I would get a pure natural sound. I like the Warm Audio WA-87R2 even better than the old C414's. The WA-87R2 sounds even more natural, full-bodied and warmer than the C414. Google the "Sound on Sound" review of the Warm Audio WA-87R2. One more important recommendation. I've tried many different mic preamps. For the past 25 years I've never found anything better than an Aphex preamp for acoustic instruments. You can get an Aphex 207 real cheap or a 207D real cheap also. The 207D has digital outputs, but you don't really need that if you are using a mixer. You don't need the expensive Aphex models because these cheap models have the exact same sound and the same exact limiter. The limiter is amazing on this preamp. It is completely natural sounding. I've never heard another compressor or limiter that is so natural. It just limits your most explosive dynamics without changing the sound at all... it's done with an optic limiter. You really don't need a compressor or limiter if you're just playing jazz, but it comes in very handy if you are recording yourself... you don't have to worry about always looking at the levels. I'm using the Midas MR18 for live gigs... but even with this fantastic digital mixer, it sounds better with the Aphex mic preamp.
@@markwhite-what-da-jazz thanks for the detailed response. I'd love to start using an analog pre-amp. I've spoken to a few sax players that recommend the Universal Audio LA-610 Mk II Tube Channel Strip. Do you have any experience using this?
@@RickySweum I only tried this channel strip once recently in a friend's studio. I didn't take the time to try to get it sounding right to my liking, but I hear this is a fantastic preamp. I didn't like the one time I tried it because it changed my sound too much, but of course this can be avoided with the right settings. I am super picky about the sound of my sax. I always want the most natural sound. I want to hear the exact sound that I am playing on the sax and this is why I love the Aphex preamps. The Aphex makes everything about my sax sound so natural. It's like it's adding better natural room acoustics to your sound. It adds depth to the sound (extremely natural) and it makes the attacks of the sax sound like you are in a perfect room for the sax. You can't make an Aphex preamp sound wrong on the sax. When you read a review on an Aphex mic preamp, the reviewer might say that the preamp has a brighter sound than other brands. The truth is that the Aphex preamps add a little warmth, but it's very slight and natural... exactly what I love about it. I can tell you a couple of Warm Audio preamps that sounded terrible on my sax...the WA73 and the Tonebeast. The WA73 sounded too muffled on the lower gain settings and it suddenly sounds too bright and edgy when you set the gain higher. The Tonebeast sounds like it sucks air out of the room on your attacks... it's the opposite of adding depth to the sound.... like you are using reeds that are way too soft and the sound just blurts out without depth. The tonebeast has a lot of cool settings that change the sound subtly, but none of the changes help the attack of the sax. Here is the worse compressor/limiter I've tried: Klark Teknik kt-2a... the only way to get this compressor/limiter to sound close to natural is to keep it at a very low setting like you are barely using it and you shouldn't have to do this with a compressor/limiter... I also didn't like how it warmed up the sound too much. When I listened to a demo of the Warm Audio LA 2a clone, I didn't like how it muffled and warmed up the sound too much, so that is why I tried the Klark Teknik KT-2a. I've tried a lot of different mic preamps, but I always prefer the Aphex preamps.
Thank you! Great video. I play flutes, and I personally use either AKG C414 XLS or Rode NT3. With AKG being my favorite, I have a "studio" problem too. If I use it I can only record at night when there's no noise coming from outside. I do like ribbon though. I recently got me Sterling ST170 just to try how I like it.
Thank so much for your comments. Sounds like you've got some good mics for recording flute. Have you tried rolling off all the low end? This will often cut out most, if not all the outside rumble during the day. Of course, there will be a occasional dog barking that will render a track useless, lol. All the best to you~
Great playing, good choices for all the 3 microphones. I work with the RE20 for years now, both live and in the studio. (Last years I even use the RE15 or RE16 als well, for even better rejection, smaller diafragm , same character and no proximity/colourisation.) Studio: Re20 pointed to the bell. AKG c414 XLS (!! Less bright than the XLII) further away sometimes pointed at the neck or from side pointed at the G# key. Sometimes use figure of 8 or even Omni to catch all this sound coming out of my pre-war Conn Transitionals
Thanks for your feedback! I've never used the RE15 or RE16, but based on your description, they seem excellent for on-stage performance; I'll be on the lookout for trying them out. All the best to you.
Hi Ricky. This is Steve again who used to play in Air Force bands and did an engineering job at Yokota last year. Anyway, a long time ago I bought an MD421 on sale and carried it with me to all gigs but I didn't realize the boost it has on the higher frequencies. I found myself always asking the sound person to cut the highs back a bit. Now I realize it isn't the best mic for saxophone unless you really know how to EQ the highs. I'm looking at getting the RE20 as something versatile to record with and play live with. I live near a highway and get some road noise in my room so the dynamic mic will be the most useful. I've been thinking about ribbon mics for quite a while but I'm thinking the RE20 will be the better all around choice for me.
Hi Steve, thanks for the comment and the information about the MD421. For those live gigs, I've been looking into the possibility of bringing more control with me, not just a mic, but also a small pre-amp with tone and EQ controls. This way, say I was using an MD421, I may be able to adjust the tone before it even goes to the FOH. The JHS colorbox might be useful in this situation, but like good gear, it's a bit pricey. Do you have any recommendations for pedal-type portable EQs pre-amps?
I only have a handful of dynamic mics but I got a recommendation for you. The JHS Colour Box V2. It ain't cheap, but worth every penny. I picked up a nice used one for about 30% off. It's basically a Neve console strip in a guitar pedal that runs off 9volts and can supply phantom to passive mics. And it Colours your signal amazingly way, even to the point of massive sonic destruction. Cheers! :)
Hi Haze, thanks for your recommendation. Other people have raved about this box to me as well. I think it's time I look into this for real. I'm torn between something analog like the JHS Colour Box, or going digital with an UAD Apollo Twin interface running their Neve emulations. So many choices... All the best to you.
Many choices indeed! I would probably choose the Apollo because that has more overall value to your studio. The Colour Box is no good if you can't get its output signal to your computer. :) There will be plenty of Colour Boxes to go around I don't think they will become scarce or grossly overvalued -- but they should retain their value quite well and may someday become vintage, whereas digital audio interfaces will always have a shelf life. Get the Apollo. xD
@@HazeAnderson Thanks for the great response and advice. Yes, I will most likely get an Apollo and also be on the lookout for the Colorbox for a good price. I love the concept of buying analog gear that will outlive the digital counterparts. All the best!
I'm using AKG C2000B in my studio and like them quite a lot. Not much EQ need post production & very warm sound. Unfortunately I don't think they make them anymore, but I like your AKG mic.
Thanks for the comment, Barry. Yeah, my AKG is the bees knees for recording anything. I looked up your C2000B, and saw some for sale on ebay...warm sound without much needed post-production is the best!
I like my AKG C2000B i found it sounds very similar to my ROde NT1(not A) I like some cheap CAD GXL 1200 small diafragm condensers better, It feels it sounds more natural.
Man, I have so many microphones. I love my akg c414 ups and Eb. Especially the eb version. My “gig mic” is a sennheiser 421…..and it’s thrashed but still sounds good. Also bought a stellar audio x2, the nuemann 87 clone mic…..and it sounds amazing. I liked the Re20 a lot in the video. The ribbon mic was “meh”. And the akg was boss. I think my next mic will be a sennheiser 441…..just the best dynamic mic made.
Thanks for your comments and sharing your experience. Yes, I love the Sennheiser 441 too...I'd love to get one to add to my arsenal; a bit on the pricey side, but with mics, you often get what you pay for. All the best.
Honestly, I’m very surprised how lackluster the VR2 sounded relative to the other two, especially in the upper register material. That RE20 just shone the whole way through, practically. The AKG certainly has a modern sound to it, though if you were going for a, say, RVG-type classic sound the RE20 wins. I wonder how the VR2 would do with a Bari… what kind of preamp are you using? Great video & playing 👍🏻
Thanks so much for the comment and assessment. I've recorded quite a bit with all three of these mics, and they've all worked well. However, I agree with you, the VR2 doesn't take the winning prize on this particular demonstration. No special preamp on this, just directly into an interface...can't remember which I used. All the best to you
@@RickySweum Thanks for the reply - I’m a guitarist primarily but still play saxophone after many years. Am still considering picking up the VR2 when the time is right; thanks for making this video!
Hey Ricky, you sound great on any mic; I have several of your recordings! Great video! I'd really be interested in some kind of a post production video from you. Basic mixing, EQ, compression etc...Maintain Brother!!
Thanks for your kinds words, Vernon, much appreciated. I love your idea to create some videos on my methods for mixing, EQ, and compression... these will be fun to do. All the best!
You have a beautiful tone. I like a beyerdynamic 201 for a dinamic. I like how it sounds and that it is more like the size of a pencil condenser. I like how the tenor sounds with pencil condensers even cheap ones. It seems it captures better a natural sound. Also Im finding very natural sounding a boundary mic against a wall or glass
Thanks so much for checking this video out. I can't remember trying the Beyerdynamic 201, but I'll surely look for it to try out on your recommendation. All the best ~ Ricky
Hi Ricky this was truly great for me as I’m new to mics for my Sax. I think you said for gigs you switch out the shure 57/58s you find there for your Electrovoice (my favourite in your demo). I just wondered what your thinking is versus the Shures.
Hi Rich, thanks for the comment and question. The RE20 is a dynamic mic good for the stage because it rejects a lot of the on-stage noise just like the Shure 57/58s, however, in my opinion, the RE20 sounds excellent on the sax because it has a beefier low/mid range which makes the sax sound fuller and less bright, which is what I find happens sometimes with the 57/58s. Everything can be fixed with a FOH engineer, but when that's not available, the natural EQ curve of the RE20 brings out the qualities I like best in the sax. Hope this helps!
Nice work! Been meaning to email you about studio session work soon. I don't have the $$$ yet but look forward to working with you someday! Will send email soon.
Very nice video absolutely! Strange fact that the 414 sounds less alive /bright than Ev re20...Is it normal? The Vr2 miss some body and core, i prefer the vr1 . The ev re20 is best mic for saxophone ever! Listening to your video the condenser mic doesn't represent " condenser" sound type and ribbon seems poor , thin not a real ribbon. I mean if you record with two mics, you should have very different type of colours in their best rapresentation . So if i have to compose my microphones triad i'd change the condenser and ribbon category with those choices: As condenser mic i would take a Neumann tlm 103 that represents really the condenser category sound and it's brighter and pop than 414..Instead on ribbon side i ll take a Coles 4038 because has a rich tone, full dark sound but very focused, straight sound not spread as AEA r 84. So if you record with tlm 103 and Coles ( or Ev re 20) it will have really sense mix the two sources . Mike Brecker on last "pilgrimage" album was been recorded with Coles 4038 close to sax and with neumann u67 far away. If you have to rec with only one mic , the Re 20 is the choice for all occasion. It is only my 2 cents man, you make great helpful video to sax community.
Thanks for the awesome video response, Paul! I LOVE your top saxophone mic choices! I'd love a Neumann TLM 103 and a Coles 4038...those are stupendous mics, but also more expensive options. Someday, I hope to add both of those mics to my arsenal. Interesting factoid about Brecker's last album, thanks for sharing that. One of my Berklee professors told me about a session she was on where Brecker was recorded with one mic below the bell of the sax on the floor, and one above the bell. I've never tried that out, but it sounds interesting, lol! 😂
To me C414 sounds the most open or is it airy, RE20 is definitely less sensitive but it brings out some qualities we're used to hear the others won't do, and the sE just sounds strangled - might go well in some mix. Maybe positioning them differently would make some difference. P.S. the SM58 you're using sounds sibilant on your voice.
