💣.38 Special - Buffalo Bore "FBI Load" Ballistic Gel Test (.38+P VS .38 Standard Pressure) 

Interesting presentation Sam. I was forced to use the old FBI load in the early ‘80s to rescue a hostage in a motel lobby. We were slightly more than two arms lengths apart and the round dropped the suspect, allowing the hostage to get away unhurt. The suspect lived after being hit center chest, neck & leg, to do a long stretch in prison. For your viewers I was using my issued 4” Model 15 S&W. Unfortunately these rounds are out of stock almost everywhere today.

Buffalo Bore standard pressure is beyond what most companies load their supposed "+p" to. Great ammo, hard to beat that performance.

One of the best load in .38 spl ever made. The old&venerable .38 still rules!

Shot Buffalo Bore +P in my Taurus 38 Special model 85. That stuff is the power of some companies 357 or close to it. It shook the pistol out of timing. I had to send it to Taurus to have it repaired. Use a Smith or Ruger if you want to shoot BB 38+P, Brutal!!!

My absolute Go-To Round for carry, the Non +p 158gr FBI load by Buffalo Bore! I carry them in all my revolvers with a short barrel. As a vintage revolver guy it helps with the authenticity as well. Great video and thank you for sharing.

900+fps(2bbl.")and 1000+fps(4"bbl.") with a 158gr. projectile, is plenty of power for a self defense situation, with good expansion and penetration also.

Choices in the old days were limited but not all of them were crap. .38 is very underestimated round and will do well with a decent load, even if it’s old school.

Buffalo Bore recently raised their prices on all their ammunition and now I can't really afford it anymore.

Snuby 38 looses about 25% in velocity and power. Your demonstration shows that the +p in a snuby increase the power of the snuby up to the power of a standard 38 in a 4 inch barrel. Therefore this was a very informative presentation. Looking at the muzzle rise in the snubby +p I saw the muzzle flip up very high and you did recover from it exceedingly well. Good shooting.

When that FBI load was in its prime, it was state of the art. We are lucky to have better bullets now

those 158 LSWCHP's looks like is all you need in a 38/357 revolver they hit with more than enough authoritah!!💣💥 love those 38 spl videos thanks Sam.

That's pretty awesome 38 special performance, With modern commercial loadings 38 is usually a very underwhelming non expanding round, But this is really nice.

Thanks, that was a good test and I agree with your conclusion; the standard pressure cartridge may have the advantage at the end of the day. First, you have to have the gun with you. Second, you have to be able to hit the target. THIRD, you need to make follow-up shots.

Thanks for your work Sam. I know it must be a lot of work putting these videos together, shooting, editing, etc. You do a good job and I REALLY APPRECIATE the revolver info and ammo demonstrations, ballistic tests. I am revolver nut and mostly 38 special/ 357 so videos like this are right up my alley in interest. Take care-MN

I was really impressed with velocity out of the 2" barrel. These are really serious defense loads. Thanks for another really well done video, really worth while information.

Pretty good performance. Really more like a +P and a mild .357 magnum. Those bullets are available from Rim Rock as a component.

I carry the +P version in my SP101 2.25”. They are both accurate and manageable. I also use them in my home defense GP100 4.2”. Great video…thanks.

Nice performing load, one of the best 38 loads for years now. Thanks for the video!

Glad to see ads in your RU-vid presentations. I am letting them run out to the end. Hope it helps. DOUG out

Best load for 38 Special!

I am glad you doing this video about .38 calibur from buffalo 🦬 Bore. Because I just ordered some 💯. Let em rip bro 🤝

Great Video. Those Buffalo Bore loads are impressive.

Thank you Sam! I asked of this a bit back and you delivered! I carry by policy a .38 Spl chambered revolver on my security retirement gig and the +P load is in my speedloaders and Model 67 S&W. Oh and Shhh! My BUG Model 49 Bodyguard!

that was wonderful expansion for both 4 and 2 inch barrels.ive shot and tested jhp factory ammunition and my reloads and many fail to get close to that expansion. been doing this 43 years and that's awesome.papa wishing you well.

I was pretty impressed with the Buffalo Bore expansion along with the penetration. This BB bullet seems to expand better than loads from the big three that have been manufacturing this load since it was conceived. Obviously BB doesn’t just pack in the powder and call it good. The advantage of a 158 grain bullet is that it will probably shoot point of aim, or at least closer to POA out of a .38, particularly a short barrel compared with the accuracy of lighter, highly regarded self defense loads. It should be noted that the so called FBI load was actually something the St. Louis, MO police department came up with in collaboration with one of the ammo manufacturers and apparently wasn’t quick give credit where credit was due, contrary to how Jeff Cooper was to those who pioneered techniques that he incorporated into Modern Pistol and other contributions.

Remember kids, whatever you choose to carry in the ol' hand canon there is no replacement for shot placement - standard.38 is plenty enough - my opinion.

Back in the day I tested various .38 loads from my 2" j frame. All of the big 3 158+P failed (Remington did the best due to the lead being softer. I didn't have a chro, but the Winchester penetrated deeper with very little expansion, the Remmy was second and the Federal finished last. Decades went by and I happened to get some of the BB and my good friend "the Brassfetcher" tested them in gel and got 1006 fps. The bullet expanded very well and penetration was pretty good too. He also tested their 125+P and got 1235 fps from the same gun.

Thanks, Sam. Back in the late 80's, this is the load in carried in my J frame. Nice to see that it actually worked as designed.

BOTH rounds did excellent in BOTH guns, I'd say this is a great choice for all .38 special revolvers.

That plus p smacked the heck out of that block I don’t think anyone would do too well against those

Wow, Buffalo Bore makes kick@$$ ammo for every application. It never disappoints.

Very good video. I just can’t understand why the big ammunition manufacturers can’t load a standard pressure 38 that has the same power as the buffalo bore one.

Thanks for the video. I have a Smith model 65 3" and use the BB +P for self defense. A lot hotter and energy than the SGD .357 mag. 135 gr short barrel. Looks like the standard pressure BB might be a better choice for follow up shots.

More penetration from the 4 inch barrel between the standard and +P. That is a definite benefit in the heavier gun where the cost of recoil and follow-up shots is minimized.

👍 good stuff! My wife and I carried BB +p in our J frames for years. We bet our lives on it.

Ideal performance for a 38 Special. I would use the +P as you may have to shoot at a distance.

I’ve got the plus P in my little Taurus. I figure if I ever have to use the thing the first shot will get it done as it’s going to be close quarters plus I’m a pretty big guy

Love to see you test those super vel 38s now that you’ve been using gel

Your timing is impeccable. I just got a S&W 442 J-frame. I’ve been considering the Buffalo Bore short barrel along with the Underwood +P. Thanks for the great ballistic knowledge as always.

Thanks, another good and interesting comparison. Thanks for taking time to share this with us. Take care.

I’m really impressed with what you were getting out of the BB ammo. I’m shooting primarily .38spcl. I’ll have pick up some of these. Great video, thanks.

I didnt know 38 special could be that hot, I would happily carry that load in my wheelgun

Awesome to see this test. Some time back, I communicated with RimRock bullets about this very bullet. They are the ones that make this and some other cast bullets for BB. Their take is that this bullet will deliver optimal performance at 1000 fps OR LESS. That was good to hear since I can get about 900 or so in my Taurus 856. You just clearly confirmed that. It seems that this bullet will perform very well at velocities where a JHP (even the vaunted 125 gr) don't really work all that well. Obviously 'magnum' or +P velocities are unnecessary for this bullet. Great job as always.

Gotta try some of that in my 38. Thanks for the video Sam.

Great video and commentary, as usual. Have been wanting to see an evaluation of these. I wouldn't feel under-gunned with either of those in a "normal" street encounter. Thanks so much.

You should do an underwood comparison like this next. They have similar rounds. In std and +p. Could be interesting.

Great content! I’m glad the 38 special is getting some appreciation. All Yankee Marshall does is trash it along with 380

Appreciate this info. Been looking for something like this for a 3” revolver and a snubbie as well.

Great testing Sam. These old skool classics are hard to beat. 🎩🏁🎯🎱♠️🇺🇲🇺🇦🔱🌻💮🌼🌸🍀🔫

Excellent review very well done

Those loads are well into 9x19mm power levels. I have no idea how important split times are in real shooting (defensive, hunting). My guess is that competition split times vs making sure you hit a real threat split times are going to be quite different. Based on my still limited experience with the S&W M&P340 shooting 125gr & 140gr magnum loads, I'll say you can still dump a cylinder pretty quickly at close range.

It looks like pretty good performance. Quite some time ago, I purchased a modest supply of both types from Buffalo Bore. I've not had to use them as yet & I pray I don't have to use them for their intended purpose.

that buffalo bore 38+p is giving you roundabouts the same velocities that the federal American eagle 357 soft points were giving you, witch begs the question is buffalo bore loading their ammo way too hot or are the ammo companies pud loading their revolver ammo ???

The BB Standard pressure load from a snubbie is going faster than most of The Big Three +P loads do...out of a 4" barrel they have 75-100 fps over their +P... The BB +P is easily the equal of the original .38-44 load by Winchester/Western and Remington/Peters back in the 1930s to 1950s...but a better bullet. Those loads were only rated at 1115 fps from a 5" barrel for the 158 grain loadings. Worked for Dallas PD back in the 1970s and 80s and personally knew 6 officers who carried that load and shot either things or people...5 of the 6 changed guns and caliber after their "incident". (one of the officers changes after his poor second poor performance incident). The rounds bounced off or stuck in the side of the stand on the corner collection mailboxes, car windshields, car doors, stuck in the neck of one felon and left people standing... The only one who was happy was a sergeant who shot a murder suspect inside a motorhome...dropped the guy right there. I knew at least 50 other officers who got into shooting with other guns and calibers and not a one of the changed a thing... When I carry a .38, which isn't very often, I carry the BB +P 158 HP or the Outdoorsman Solid...nothing less.

Good video Sam.

Really excellent presentation. Thank you.

Well done! I have to chuckle a bit…I have a 3” model 36… love my wheel guns!

Appreciate the analysis.

"FBI Load" - Yeah, that is going over well today.

Great comparison, thanks very much.

The FBI shot it mainly from 3 inch S&W mod 10/13 revolvers. (Maybe also mod 64/65) Quite comfortable to shoot out of these.

Nice flow and clear results summary. Dig it.

Great video Sam! I was chasing a .357 all summer and had decided that a .38 was going to be more useable in the long run. The Taurus was my price range but I've seen enough other people having problems to make me leery. An RIA M206 presented itself at a really good price and I finally made a purchase. I know it's a budget gun, but I'm shooting it well enough and it's eating every factory load, reload, and even some +P. I think I'll hold off on the Buffalo Bore though and shoot mostly hand loads to stay in practice. Thanks!

Your the man gun Sam!!!!!

Either way I was impressed with both calibur .38's 😊

Buffalo Bore is great ammunition!

Perfect! That’s great information. Thanks, Vince

Just bought a 38 special snub nose thanks for the video very informative

I think you used to use a S&W Scandium Model 342 for testing. It would be interesting to see if the standard pressure BB 158 gr swchp jumps the crimp. That's the risk with lead bullets in lightweight revolvers

Another most excellent video.

Great ammo

Trending wisdom these days in revolver carrying circles seems to be that a person is better off loading something like a 147 grain wadcutter in a .38 snub and saving the hotter +P for a 4 inch or longer barreld revolver. Simply because one loses around 100 f.p.e running +p or +p+ ammo in the 2inch and gains nothing but heightened muzzle flash and sharper recoil. Which is something I'd tend to almost agree with based off my own experience. I would advocate instead for a heavier weight wadcutter or semi-wadcutter bullet instead of the 147 grain however. Preferably something medium cast and not hard cast. Also. Just as there was an "F.B.I load" .38 Special? There was also a .38 Special "Treasury load". If my memory serves. It was a 110 grain .38 Special +P jacketed hollow point loading running just over about 1100+ per second out of a 4 inch barrel.

Excellent information. Thanks!

Great info. Thanks

One thing you gain with plus p is range with performance equal to the standard pressure. You will not get the same penetration and expansion at 25 yards as at 10 feet so the more velocity the better the chance of increasing both.

Thanks for another great video

Awesome video Sam, thanks 👍👍

That's some pretty good stuff. Thanks

We need to get you a Henry so you can test these out of a rifle. 😊 I think they might be a nice fit but you never know what the extra 300 fps would do to bullet performance.

I saw a little different on the 2” between +p and standard. Thank you for posting this.

I every day carry buffalo bore .357 mag 125 gr 1700 fps in a smith model 640 at work and in a 686+ when not at work. For when i just have to run out real quick and just throw on sweat pants or something my go to is the buffalo bore 38 spl +p lswchp in my 360j. Buffalo makes the best ammo with the most BANG for your buck, literally

Cool video thanks.

For me I’m just looking for something that won’t blow up my 1951 police positive special but allows me to be confident if I throw it in my pocket to go to the grocery store. When I have time to plan I carry a 1952 Smith and Wesson Heavy duty with Winchester 130 grain +p Defender. I know a Heavy Duty will eat any hot 38 special all day everyday and ask for seconds on Sunday. But that police positive I don’t wanna push past standard pressure.

That is some serious 38 fuel.

Great video love these quantitative analyses, they are very informative. Question...have you ever tried the PPU equivalent to the standard pressure bullets you tested here, and if so what were your impressions? Thanks a lot and keep the videos coming! (I am also a wheel gun fan)

My experience with the standard pressure is that the recoil is too stout in lightweight snubs like Chief Special or Detective Special. It works great in a heavier gun like the 10-5 snub. The + P is pushing magnum territory, so I'd rather just use a magnum...

LOL, "Zero percent chance of rain and then it started storming." Are you sure you're not really in coastal Alabama? That's where I am and our weather is like that, too. I think all our weathermen drink. ;)

Thank You

I'm really trying to stop 🛑 buying ➕P ammo. Mainly because ammo is scarse now. And when u find some basically what you see is all that is left. Standard pressure loads is more than enough power for my taste 😉

Thanks again for a great video. I load my wife's Taurus 85 (used to be mine but she claimed it) with Federal 129 grain +P JHPs for regular carry plus it is our bedside table gun. But in Spring time here in Black bear country, I load it with Buffalo Bore 158 grain +P LSWC Hard cast. Pretty stout recoil with it in the little gun, but she handles it ok. Have you ever tested that load?

I was interested because I picked up a bunch of 158 gr SWCHP+P cheap. Better than I expected.

Awesome vid. I just ordered some BB+P 158's for my 342.

How was the .38 special plus p recoil compared to a standard.158 gr .357 mag?

I carry this or the hard cast WC. Depending if I'm planning on seeing bears or not.

Great comparison, good video

How about testing, 1) 38 UW Extreme Defender, 2) 45 acp 165 gr vs a 9mm 147 gr. The 9mm 115 gr vs a 45 Acapulco 230 gr just doesn’t seem that fair; 3) a 38 Special snub nose vs a 22 mag from a North American Arms pistol. I need to check the vid list about the 38; you may have done that one and I forgot. Watch all your vids. Good job and thanks for your efforts. Lots of unseen work there most people don’t think about.

Thank you,

I'm impressed with those results. I've seen these loads tested elsewhere and it wasn't as successful. Maybe BB is getting their bullets from a different supplier or they changed the alloy.

Great Video Sam!!!

They expand out of the short barrel not so much do to the velocity, it how thin and deep the hollow point walls are with those buffalo bore rounds