🔥 Does The BLACK CHURCH Honor Its Musicians/Singers? (WHITE Churches, Secular-World & Compensation) 

Here is the FULL CONVERSATION for those who asked: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QqTiQHzOjPQ.html

Only in the black community would we have this type of debate…🤦🏾‍♂️ no white or Hispanics have this debate.

This whole video really troubled me. Help us Lord!

There is literally no difference between the church and world these days

I was a bassist at a black church for 15 years. Rehearsal on Wednesday service on Sunday... paid with vacation days. It was “service” But, bottom line it was still a JOB. I can say that After my years of service and “church experiences” I probably won’t ever do it again.

Pastor gets paid to minister without shaming them. Paying musicians to minister is ok also.

This is amazing, as a musician I've been taken advantage by churches for years under the label of serving. The Bible states that the church is supposed to take care of the musicians, so that the musicians can only do service. The churches had fallen short

Most churches I know will pay musicians before they pay singers specifically smaller churches.

Until the church gets out of the mindset of worshipping their musicians, vocal or instrumental, this "gig" mentality will never leave. We are leaving worship in the hands of people who are not necessarily led by the Holy Spirit. We have become an entertainment industry breeding the likes of Dorinda Clark Cole who feel free to disrespect other musicians with impunity. I am a classically trained musician who also plays by ear and can play easily in all keys accept 2 and it has always been my mindset to use my all for the glory of God. He gave the resource.

I've played for churches without compensation requirements for decades. I did it not because I was working for the Lord......It was because I was a plum fool, and knew no better. You will be taken advantage of, if you allow it.

This whole conversation is troubling and also one of the reasons I left black church. Tom foolery!!!

I've been a member and a musician at a black AND white church. Compensation is an issue in alot of churches. All I can say is, when I'm not there on the drums I get looks and words. I have a life OUTSIDE of what I do in church. I'm not saying I NEED to get paid. But if you don't pay me, relax your expectations because I'm a father, husband, and more. However, if you're paying the rest of the band, please don't overlook the drummer.

This is sad. Played for over 20 yrs for free. Preached for free. And God has met every need plus some! What if God said I will take away life from you if you can't pay for it? ...

My concern is the health of our black musicians and singers because most are over weight and dealing with diabetes and high blood pressure. Can the BLACK CHRUCH talk about that?

The Church should go back to Hymns, they are more theologically sound.

THAT PART ABOUT NOT BEING TREATED RIGHT IN THE BLACK CHURCH STRUCK A PROVERBIAL " DIMINISHED CHORD" IN MY EARS! I WAS PLAYING FOR THIS PARTICULAR CHURCH THAT HAD AN EXTREMELY COLD ATMOSPHERE; THEREFORE, I HAD TO LEAVE. I COULDN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE! PRAYERS NEEDED AND REQUESTED😠🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏❤

This was the best Debate I’ve ever seen. And I love and that were in the panel. Thank you because they didn’t understand what we go through

I had a medical profession outside of church although I'm a talented musician. My happiness comes from being needed to play and they tried to pay me but I refused payment. My salary from my job was more than adequate. Today I'm a member of a church where I've never been asked to fill in from time to time, I don't charge, I just want to play that is my own personal enjoyment. So I continue to play to the four walls at home.

I'm not a musician but I have been on a trustee board and we dealt with musicians. The church was always Changing musicians. I inquired why. The pastor said they want more money. Black churches do treat musicians very poorly. Most pastors want to be paid we'll. And they get their money. Now I agree you pay according to their training. And Pastors need to let the musicians do their job we don't need the Pastor selecting all the music. That's what we pay the musicians for. Upgrade your instruments.

Some of y’all underestimate how much work goes into honing your craft and being a musician and it shows with the low-key accusations that they aren’t saved and aren’t grateful for the gifts God gave them. If y’all feel so strongly about that, quit YOUR job and go volunteer for the church full time. And the Lord will provide.

As a college-trained, concert organist who has served in Catholic, AME, Baptist, COGIC, Methodist, Non-Denomination, and now Episcopal Church with congregations that were white, black and those in between, I would’ve love to have been in the room. Sister in the green hit it on the head. Mic drop!

I don’t understand why this is such a difficult topic. The laborer is worth his wage. Pay the musicians and the singers! Honor them. Serve them.

My very own church didn't recognize me until I started playing at other churches and they started to hear about me and it caused a problem but I didn't care, I was able to help my mom send myself to school thanks to those churches that acknowledged me

I went to school to read and learn sheet music and I also play by 👂 ear so I understand both sides. This was awesome conversation

This shouldn’t even be a conversation. Musicians should get paid just how pastors get paid. Period

I see valid points on both sides. But I love Jesus, pay my tithes and love singing/serving in the choir! To the woman in the green on the panel, we were taught to disrespect and mistrust each other. Because we don’t help each other like we should. So showing each other Respect and kindness is still something we have to conquer! I make sure I smile at my brother/sister in church or in the streets. Lastly, this discussion was beautiful, because it was very civil. Nobody went off, nor acted ugly!

Many valid points shared in this discussion! Well... Peace and blessings to all. 🙂

Why did you have to raise an offering for the musician. You asked them to come but didn’t prepare for them financially?

I feel It's economic also... More would play in service if they were getting paid sufficiently at their jobs. And most churches want to ensure certain people are in place every Sunday and on time.

PS. I've been in church and in the Lord almost all of my life ,since age 5yrs.and now about to turn 61 yrs.,and I've always seen these matters of musicians done in decent and in order, there was never a problem with whom was using there gifts for the house of the Lord as a service unto the Lord and whom was the paid professional that the Pastor had hired, if that church lacked having that gift. It was never no confusion, but now days everything is about money, how sad and the house of God should not be that way. God will provide jobs and whatever we need. But God's House is not the workforce it's a place of worship. And the tithes and offerings that come in should go right back to the storehouse God's House. And it's nothing wrong with giving a person a love gift or donation now and then. But it's still a place of worship, God's House. 🙏❤️

As a musician and a Pastor, I have observed and witness the foolishness on both ends! And needless to say it’s a sinful shame!

This is wonderful!!! I love this!!! I lived in Nashville I soooo miss the music ministry in Nashville... wowwwww.. I live in Durham now... my best friend was Denotra.. a great singer...

I like the FIRST PASTOR speaking. his point is so valid.

I really enjoyed this discussion .

How about the musician that doesn't attend Sunday school, prayer service or stay in the building for the sermon and only come in for the pastors drive.

I have been a church drummer for over 30yrs. I've just started getting paid to play around 4yrs ago. I remember being a teenager and I was one of two drummers in a nice size church, and the pastor would pay me $5 every once in a while. I've never asked for a dime to play drums. Even now if I get asked to play, I get asked..How much do you charge? My answer is always, whatever you can afford to bless me with is cool. Notice I said whatever you can (Afford) to pay me. I word it that way, so that the Holy Spirit starts talkin and won't let them be cheap, and pay less than what they can again afford...LOL! I play because I absolutely love playing, and I give my gift back to God everytime I hop on the set. I don't have a problem with musicians being paid, but it's charging these ridiculous fees, when they haven't been on NOBODY'S album! Name ain't on NOBODY'S album credits! Lol One more thing, if Pastors have an issue with paying their musicians, then don't take a salary from the church! The Pastor would take a salary, for preaching a word, that the Lord gave him for free! Taking a $200,000/ year, while only preaching one Sunday morning service, and a Wed night bible study...NAW PLAYA! Also church musicians need to go back to living right, being saved and holy. Even the musicians are ministering, and this is a whole different mission than playing secular music. We have too many church singers, and musicians ministering dirty!

I understand his question but black churches are very difficult nowadays especially when it comes to the singers and musicians fr fr

You pay for your janitor, repair contractors, utilities and anyone else that provides a skilled service for your ministry. Pay your musicians so they can survive! You'll never have a strong music ministry otherwise.

If That Be The Case... Why Do Pastors/Preachers Get Paid ?? (asking for a friend) 😎

Thank you for sharing this panel discussion. I wish that there would a standard on this topic but, there is not. I have played for several ministries and have been mistreated by the bulk of them whether I am playing for free or if I am being paid.

Many are not in obedience: From Jesus mouth: Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Matthew 10:8 KJV

When churches became organizations-employees started getting paid.

The difference between a cop and a security guard at church is , you being a security guard at church doesn’t take blood sweat or tears !! Using your gift does. Studying music all week, studying parts to then teach to ppl who aren’t even musically inclined 80% of the time , being put forth to invoke the Holy Ghost etc does not compare to a damn security guard! Your service can go on without security but how effective is a service with bad singing and bad instruments

This is a touchy situation. I used to "play" for a church, growing up I served in every auxiliary from the front to the back. I "served" my churches I was never compensated. I've ministered in many churches never signed a contract, whatever they felt like they wanted to give me. Sometimes being led by the spirit I would give an offering back to a church. Former military, trained security officer, armed and unarmed. Serve on the security team at my current Church, and I'm also their Bishop. I don't get paid, as they're overseer or security personnel, I have an occupation. Am I wrong, maybe I shorted myself. I don't get compensated I still feel like I'm serving. Interesting topic why should you pay some and not others. Pastors, ministers, choirs, praise leaders, deacons, trustees, missionaries, ushers custodians, kitchen. Where does it start, where does it end. Some Churches give you compensation for perfect attendance, should you pay the members too. But also I've been in Caucasian churches in ministry and they give me a love offering that would pay me for a whole month for one service, versus the black church where I have to work twice as hard and just enough gas money to get there and back. Interesting topic, it is cultural, but maybe I grew up different, I'm 54 years old. I wasn't really compensated for my talents or anointing, but I felt like I was called to serve so I was never really upset. Maybe I was taught different, or maybe I was manipulated. And then one of the speakers brought up an interesting point, how come we can't find talent within our own organizations, but we will pay somebody to come in and do what we could do. And no we are not treated right in our church. That's another point I go away from home to get treated much better. Wow... Good topic of discussion. Did I hear someone mention Pilgrim Assemblies, I was a member years ago under the Bishop Roy Brown. I learned a lot from Archbishop, miss him. The the early days, I was just a baby. Grace and Peace, blessings Bishop Hough The Bishop at the end, should I get paid more I'm also educated. 🤔 🤣🤣🤣

OMG SHE IS TELLING THE WHOLE TRUTH & NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH👏👏👏👏👏👏💯💯💯💯💯%%%%

Jesus literally laid down his life, but we can’t sacrifice our gifts, that’s crazy. But keep that same energy in season of harvest.

This was an interesting conversation. I noticed that many on the panel were quite younger than myself. I forgot to say that I am a musician, played at many churches, but primarily my home church since 1978. I studied music at the U. Of Mo.-St. Louis and at Gambling State. So, I understand the business side. I am curious about their spiritual involvement in what they're doing.

When the chief Levite uses their gift for free, I’ll follow suit.

Since when did ministry unto the Lord become about being catered too? I'm a singer as well it's about honoring God not ourselves. I'm there to please God not fill my pockets God supplies all my needs to his riches and glory. If take of God he'll take of me.

If you’re going to be paid musician, PLEASE play‼️ Not texting while the preacher is preaching‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

1st Chronicles 15:22 And Chenaniah, chief of the Levites, was for song; he instructed about the song, because he was skillful. Biblically, musicians and worship leaders should be paid because they are fulfilling the role of the Levites. Levites were not given an inheritance of land but were sustained from the offerings of the other tribes. Economically, if your church doesn’t want to pay musicians then don’t! But be satisfied with whatever musicians your church develops and remember that whatever they do is their gift. The reason musicians are paid is because the demand for skillful musicians dictates their pay. Plus, churches want them as employees so that they can be required to play when and what they want them to play.

In the tabernacle of David the musicians were skilled and paid.

Pay and respect the musicians or don’t and see how the church moves 🤷🏽‍♂️

Frying chicken is different than being a musician, we all can cook, we all can't sing or play an instrument> As a psalmist my church would never have to pay me for singing, it's my home. I wouldn't charge my natural father for doing what I am suppose to do at home..... I live there, get fed there.... same thing in my the spiritual home. But, everyone else pays, unless the Lord says otherwise

People will do more for you if you are kind , appreciate them and celebrate them. I love that

I truly enjoyed watching this 🙏🏼

This is my thing…you see it as a job then it’s going to be a job regardless of your feelings. You do it as ministry it is in a different light. Some people are just church hurt and need healing.

If I hear “sow a seed one more time”, I think I’m going to nut up! As a preachers kid, it has gotten so old and sad that “church folk” keep asking for money over and over! God like a cheerful giver, not a badgered giver! We have to remember our position and purpose and responsibility…especially on the church!

I enjoyed watching this.

Where is the full video? I love this?

Every person in this panel need to listen to Juanita Bynum “Church on the Rockin Oxen” preached at Rod Parsley’s church. This is that word coming to fruition

Church has always been from the beginning , the early church, has been a place of service unto the Lord. There's nothing wrong with giving a person a donation or a love gift. And yes sometimes the church does hire a prorfessional to doing something for the church, if that church lacks having a person with those gifts and talents. But these situations must be made crystal clear from the start, that are you bringing your gifts to the storehouse for the service of the Lord or is the Pastor hiring you as a professional.

What about the preachers who won’t come to your church without a deposit before they even step in the door? Same conversation to me.

Wow! This was an excellent and necessary discussion.

If a musician so chooses to sew their talents into their church home for free that should be that musicians CHOICE, but it certainly should NOT be his/her/their EXPECTATION. As a leader of a church I would think you wouldn’t want to expect a church member to see because what happens if that person finds another church home? What happens to the music ministry? Have a stable budget for your church ministry or be prepared for a stop and start music ministry for your church if you’re depending on donated/free labor.

It’s not about pay! It’s your service to God. People in the church won’t even pick up a piece of paper with asking for a check smh.

I'm fine with playing for free when the pastor and guest speakers, bishops stop taking any money. Just raise offering 1 dollar per member, per week.

Very interesting and good points made. The truth was well said, the difference between white and black churches. God bless.

My God This Is Really Deep...I'm Seriously Speechless Now And Don't Know What To Say And That's All Ima Say...

There is a difference between talent and gifts. The bible says your gifts and callings are irreversible. A talent requires to be enhanced by going to school and if this is your livelyhood then yes, get paid. However, God's gifts allows us to serve HIM freely because we didn't acquire this gift from a man or woman. Many people claim to have a relationship with God, they know HYMS BUT DON'T KNOW HIM. playing is just a job, they have no real connection with God.

A workmen is worthy of their hire. Mussel not the ox that treadeth out the corn. If a man doesn’t work he doesn’t eat. Pay the people for the work. They are providing a service it’s worth compensation.

What the lady said about how she was treated in a white church vs a black church was spot on. I've had the SAME experiences ..... and to this day, it's the reason that I rarely play in a black church.

It's always a wonderful service to serve God with your gifts, and when you are a musician and/or etc., Expectations should be set at the point you are authorized to play. The reasoning why compensation comes into play at times is that I have seen many musicians do all they can for the service of the church, and they are struggling in the secular world because of the lack of balance. If that musician cannot make it that one time because they must be at work, then they need to be allowed the grace to do so, and not made to feel bad when they aren't present. So many times, I have seen musicians feel guilty for not being able to be present, but then they would see their leadership pay to get someone else to come fill in. In some places I know they function with/without the musician. They just simply adjust. It's sad to see a lot of extremely talented musicians get burned out and move on.

When you are called by God You don’t need to be paid it’s a Gift from God. Jesus will Provide for his children

Church size has nothing to do with my craft ! We’re not hired based on your congregation size. We are hired based on our ability which doesn’t change if it 2 ppl or 2000

I can agree with a lot that has been said by each musician. I started playing at 7( by ear ) I've been a (church musician) since I was 14 years old.I became a Minister music at twenty-one, I've have took some music classes but my gift is my strongest area. I've had them bring other musicians, and over me give other musicians my job. At one church we were required to be there four days a week only paid one time(not a great salary) plus working at the church day care for basically free. I have been lied to with the contract or without I have played for events and been told that I will be compensated and get finished with the event and no check. I have serve at most black denomination other than cogic.I've had churches to honor vacations sick days I've had churches not to even give you a love day, raise appreciation yearly. At times I thought maybe it's time to quit maybe it's time to retire and I can just be a bench warmer but it's just something on the inside of me I love God and I love what I do.i have also had the pleasure of been asked to come back(everything that glitter isn't gold) Being a psalmist, MOM and minister is my calling.I know that I'm not the best at it but I'm anointed to do it and that's what makes the difference so I'm going to keep on pressing on.To each musician that read my post you keep your head up, fight for what you is yours and know your worth know when it's time to walk away. Stay humble, and prayerful in all that you do, and watch God exalt you in his time. Study to show yourself approve a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the "Word of Truth". No that your work is unto God, I want to hear him say Well done. Blessings ☺

I'm enjoying this I'm at Church that I'm happy with the pay is fair but I and My family have been inspired by the church and the pastor as well I'm looking at the fact im being spiritually fead and I'd like to say it's a gift from god that I can play i haven't had lessons i play by ear i crave to be better I'm still trusting in god for betterment this video has been very informative think you very much

That means pastors shouldn’t get paid

This was such a good discussion. i forwarded this to my church family!

At 6:26 yes! You are telling the TRUTH~ been there done that! Got the check before they heard me play. At my church, "we pay you" like you got to do it, because we pay you to play...

Wow. The beautiful young lady in the green! She spoke the truth. Many times, I, Go to different churches, as well as musicals and events, where people of religious stature look at us (especially those of us who they don’t think look the part) and turn up their noses, and these are people of my own color. Then if you mention something about it, the first thing they’ll say is your ego is in question when it’s actually theirs. So, I can definitely get behind what she was saying about going where people treat you and your gift with mutual respect and appreciation rather than a begrudged dollar amount that they won’t even speak to. Now, I’m not wholly concerned about the money piece because God has always provided for me whether the church paid me or not. I was in a situation where My term was complete at a church and my household finances took a substantial pay cut, yet God never missed a beat. Thank you Jesus. I’m a witness that God will provide for his own but I do agree with what she said about us going to school and paying out to learn your craft, and to have that time and practice monetarily appreciated when the church is going to be the recipient of the end result and prayerfully as the music ministry and all ministries of the church improve according to the leading of the Holy Spirit, tithes and offering would go up and the church would thrive in a business sense as well as spiritually. Many of us take out student loans, work to put ourselves to school, go hungry in those nights in the dorm when we don’t have much money, take on opportunity after opportunity To get used to performing in front of people (Who are not always very accepting) and to build up our confidence, and learn new tricks of the trade that the church benefits from whenever we play. And then, when we have gotten The credentials, the bachelors and sometimes the Masters degree as well, We have to work ourselves up to build credence as a first rate musician/minister of music/choir director/vocalist/Music consultant and those who nickel and dime us for asking for specific amounts (starting with an efficient fee that satisfies both parties and working our way up to more supplemental rates as our skill set and demand grows.) don’t really help the situation. In fact, when they do this, they inadvertently cause us to second guess our own worth, then fight with our own selves to keep from second-guessing. Let me duck because I don’t want anybody throwing the tomatoes on me for what I’m about to say. But I’m also feeling the church’s plight. There are some that cannot afford the rates that musicians charge but they still want quality service. Knowing they don’t have the money to do so, they do what they can to raise a substantial amount for the musician and they do it with a giving and loving heart. Churches like they are scarce but they are out there. And to get on the flipside, some churches are respectful to musicians that are arrogant, condescending, and just downright mean. Those are the churches I feel the most sorry for because the arrogant musician Is taking up space that could be occupied by someone who is humble, who knows his skill set, and is confident in what God has given him. In short: I believe that all sides could stand self reevaluation- The musicians in how we treat the people in the church and the people in the church in how they treat musicians.

This is one of the most debated thing in the world of music. I believe that musicians should know that their Talent can be marketed, but their gift isn't for selling.

Not all churches have the financial ability to pay musicians. If there are only 30 members, how are they going to pay an organist $250 a week? Maybe a once in a while love offering would be nice!

Great conversation!!

The question should be why do they feel like they should not pay the singers but they pay the musicians let's talk about this

I’m still not understanding why the musicians don’t understand that it was God that gave them the gift in order to edify His body. There are literally people lined up and begging the Lord to use them as a vessel in order to help someone in need. I like what the Pastor said when he stated that other people have a 9 to 5 and still sacrifice their time in order to serve in the church. Any service that’s done in the church should not be looked at as a job regardless of how these musicians spin it. I have literally seen musicians refuse to play one key at a struggling church that couldn’t pay them what they wanted or agreed to initially. Since when do we need contracts for church servitude? Musicians are no different than any other servants in the church. Use the gift that the Lord gave you as an offing up to him, vice a skill used for self edification and have faith that He will open a door to a job that will pay your bills. One of the musicians on the panel actually referred to his ability to play as a skill vice a gift. That confirmed that some are not in it for the right reason thus proving why this topic has become so controversial. This is, if it’s not actually, skirting the lines of self worship and it’s hard for me to believe that God is pleased with the type of behavior. It’s not a question of whether this is a cultural thing. This issue is a matter of the heart. Regardless of how you are treated, if the Lord called you for a purpose, your only objective, even in the mist of adversity, should be to serve that purpose. What would have happened if the great Patriarchs like Moses, Joshua, Joseph, Elisha etc would have refused to serve their purpose because of the stiff necked people they encountered. None of us would be here. They persevered through adversity and sacrificed for the work of the Lord and there are so many of God’s people who are still doing that today. Who has bewitched these people and sold them this lie? There are people waiting on someone to help them through ministry(servitude) and people arguing over how different cultures brought them coffee, and donuts, and asked if theirs shoes needed to be tied. If that’s what dictates your willingness to serve, someone needs to go back to the Alter and ask God for a heart like His. Jesus Himself refused servitude from His disciples, who by they way, abandoned Him as He served His purpose. He still went to the Cross to die for the very people who crucified Him. He washed their feet as an example on how we should serve one another with no strings attached and regardless of our status or abilities. If we use Jesus as the example, we should know the conclusion of this matter.

There are universities who have accredited Gospel Music degrees that teach instrumental and vocal Gospel music.

6:25 This was my favorite part. The lady in the green hit the nail on the head!

Wow 😣 sad I thank God and appreciate where He placed me. God bless you all! God will provide. God knows what we need and He will provide.

Lord help us...

Nah I got get that paper dog!! If I’m teaching parts and making sure the music is done correctly and carried out, that paper better be right!

I have been wondering about this for years.

Man this is a good topic I have been involved in the praise team I was a sound tec if the needed a usher I was if they need the carpet cleaned I was if the coffee needed I was if u needed a librarian I was I worked for my pastor for 5 years if I worked at his house I got paid 15 an hour if I worked at the church it was ten not the unlocking the church on Sunday morning to making sure that the praise team mic were ready I was but I did it not for the pay not for the praise I did it not for my self I did it for my redeemer he helped me get clean and sober so In a way if your treated right then God got u hope that helps peace my brothers and sisters of Christ remember who u are singing and playing for not for the church but for God

What about appreciating someone (a musician) for the simple fact that they accommodated your church needs?

Musicians work so hard to contribute towards services. I think it’s extremely unfair to not pay them and make their lives easier.

My mother and grandparents taught me to treat people with respect & love. Reading the Bible and having Great Leaders reinforced and built upon that foundation.

I Enjoyed This

It depends on the church! Most churches will play their musicians, and then some musicians will just play, because that is their way of giving back to the Lord, what He gave them! Peace!

Service for the Lord, doesn't need payment,our payment is our obedience to God's word, through Jesus Christ!

THIS CONVERSATION WAS EXTREMELY MISLEAD WHEN THE PASTOR OF THAT CHURCH GOT THE MIC. 1. Pay your musicians if you can and as best as you can. But a musician (at their home church) shouldn’t need to be payed to be committed. That’s a hireling not a servant. I’m not a pastor but I am a worship leader and I’m astute in singing and vocal arranging. I’ve never been paid from my home church and I don’t get paid and they don’t have to pay me to lead worship to conduct rehearsals or direct the choir. God will reward me. And I bless him for it!