The Battle of Wolf 359 (or massacre as I call it) is infamous in Star Trek lore. Starfleet sent 40 ships to stop the Borg. 39 were destroyed. The lone surviving (and heavily damaged) ship picked up escape pods from the others, then got the hell out of Dodge. Starfleet lost 11,000 people that day.
VERY much not ok. He was forcibly indoctrinated and subsumed into a hivemind yet retained some semblance of self and all of his memories. He was in control of the cube, He-as-Locutus absolutely annihilated 11 thousand fellow starfleet (and possibly klingons)
Battle is a generous term, more like The Massacre of Wolf 359... but yeah, this marks a huge turning point for the Federation and the entire Alpha Quadrant going forward.
@@jeremygilbert7989 There's a theory that Q initiated the contact with the Borg because he knew that Starfleet needed to militarize itself in order to survive the Borg and later the . And if they didn't then Humanity (and eventually the Milky Way) would lose it's chance to eventually ascend.
@@DarthTach Yes, Q warned us. Remember at the end of season 1 when the Romulan and Federation outposts along the Neutral Zone were destroyed. The Borg did that, so they knew about us already.
The fact that this episode actually coaxed a full on “holy shit!” from our Jen, who would usually restrain herself to an “Oh, frig” tells you how caught up in the tension she was! 😄😜
@@colormedubious4747 nor I, though I went once, 91’. Im from u n w3f pris0n island 0z, not canadanistan, under princeling dik tat0r trudie, have you kept up with all your b00 stirs?
This humbling battle, and overwhelming loss, transformed Starfleet in many ways. Q did the right thing for the wrong reasons, and Starfleet ended up with tragically more than a bloody nose. It demonstrated the raw power of the Borg, where one cube took out a hastily assembled Starfleet armada.
And I don't think there is a Star Trek fan who also plays ELITE who has not flown there :) "Send this message, all channels, all frequencies ... we have engaged the Thargoid!" :chuckles:
I don't actually think Q did "the right thing for the wrong reasons". I think Q knew very well what he was doing. Especially knowing the future results of this event. We've glimpsed what could happen, if this had unfolded any other way. Q ultimately does things for the best, even if it's behind the facade of a petty trickster. In the end... he cares.
For those who were complaining on having to wait a whole WEEK to watch this with Jen---- Waaaaaaaaaaah! Poor you! We had to wait 4 MONTHS in-between cliffhangers! Shut up and hit that like button!
We just had to wait a mere week when this was originally shown in the UK on the BBC 🇬🇧(albeit 2 years after the initial broadcast) but then a 2 year hiatus till "Family" was shown !!!
Definitely the watershed moment of the series, and probably of this entire era of Trek. It’s when the show officially stepped out of the shadow of its predecessor
This episode began the militarization priority of Starfleet future ship construction (for those who watch other future series we know how crazy important that is...). It also began true multi-episode/arc storytelling, moving away from the danger of the week format. In just about every way this episode is the inflection point from the TOS toward modern television.
Jen, when you said, "It must have changed him somehow...", you have no idea. Though the producers tried to mitigate it, there was no "putting the toys back in the toy box" nice and perfectly neat after this.
When this first aired, we almost threw the TV out the window on each commercial break, great memories with a heap of family and friends crammed into the lounge
It was. But on the other hand, after such an excruciating wait, the episode flew past faster than a borg cube at maximum velocity. Like if you're only allowed to have one steak per year. That steak is gonna be amazing but it's also gonna be gone so fast.
Jen, as stormcrow mentioned, Wolf 359 is not made-up; it's a very real star, and it's the fifth closest star system to Earth. Even though Wolf 359 is so close, it's also extremely dim, so almost nobody had heard of it, outside of astronomers and some hardcore scifi readers. But when this episode aired on September 22, 1990, Wolf 359 suddenly became a household name (and it remains well-known today, at least among Star Trek watchers).
WORF: Chief, do you remember the time we rescued Captain Picard from the Borg? O'BRIEN: How could I forget? It was touch and go there for a while. There were a couple of moments when I thought we were all going to wind up being assimilated. WORF: I never doubted the outcome. We were like warriors from the ancient sagas. There was nothing we could not do.
To put two posts together. He remembers. He remembers how he destroyed 39 ships and with the Borg sensors he knows he knows he killed about 11,000 people. Including at least 1 good friend. For the Borg there are no individuals, so from his point of view, he fired every single shot himself. No one is ok after that.
You know, I never thought of it that way. Always knew he carried guilt, even though every action went against his will, but it makes sense that with a true collective mind there would be no distinction between the perception of the whole and the parts. What a terrible thing to have to contend with in his own mind...
I love the part where Locutus says about Data: "Primitive artificial organism” while standing there looking like a prototype breadboard circuit with crazy tubes going everywhere.
About the ending, I think this is about the point where Star Trek started to have more continuity. The early seasons were all stand alone episodes, but now we're adding more character development and picking up again on events of previous episodes. I believe after this season they started filming Deep Space Nine (and surely would have been doing the planning for it at the same time they shot this season), and that show really goes much deeper into season-long storylines and continuity.
That melancholy at the end will certainly be an important part of his evolution moving forward. You're definitely going to witness some wonderful character stories this season, not just with Picard, either. 🖖
As I commented on the first part, this two-parter changed _Star Trek_ forever more. Picard and the Borg were linked in a way no one else could understand. From this episode on, Starfleet had a unique treasure trove of insight into the way the Borg function via Picard's experience. Not that it always worked out for them, of course. The Borg remained the Federation's most difficult enemy.
I loved how the D was paralyzed and only got a very ominous message from the admiral that the fight was not going well. I'm pretty sure the battle of Wolf 359 wasn't shown because it was well beyond the budget to show it. But wow, so much the better. It's the "nothing is scarier than what's not shown" meme. And the D crew is experiencing it as is the audience. In this particular case, the aftermath of the battle was every bit as bad as everyone guessed, but it was still a very powerful invocation of that meme.
Paramount + whatever SFX team they assembled in season 3 of DS9 probably could have done it, but yes, far more effective to show the aftermath, and the bridge crew finding no life signs and reacting in horror.
For those not familiar with the battle, there were 2 USS Melbourne’s that took part. The first one was Admiral Hanson’s former command of an Excelsior Class ship .The second was the ship that Riker was offered command of(the original model prototype of the Nebula Class that was scratch built for the debris field). This was confirmed later by the production team and a future episode.👀😎👀😎👀😎👀😎👀
I don’t know which would be harder. A four month wait for part two without being able to watch it sooner, or a self-enforced weeks wait knowing that it’s available to watch at anytime. Love your reaction as always Jen. Thanks for allowing us to see these well-worn classics through your fresh eyes.
I felt the show stepped it up in writing, special effects and stories with this episode. It seemed to get so much better going forward from this episode back in the day.
Hanson was an idiot. He was told the battle plans and ship specifications had been compromised, and he went off on some rah-rah Academy tangent story. He wouldn't even listen to his own Borg 'expert'. As later episodes will tell, the Battle of Wolf 359 was an absolute fiasco for Starfleet.
Yep, Hansen had so much faith that Picard would NEVER help the Borg, that he didn't think for one moment that Picard might not have had a choice in the matter.
To be fair, what other choice did Starfleet have? They didn't know enough about the Borg to try anything else and there was really no time to try and think of anything else. Also this was the first assimilation Starfleet had ever seen so they knew absolutely nothing about how it worked. They didn't even know it could be done. They found the baby Borg in "Q Who" so they assumed they just reproduced like that. If anyone, I'd call Shelby the idiot for considering herself an expert on the Borg when the only information on the Borg they had was the tiny bit gleaned from the first and only encounter with the Enterprise at J-25, which only lasted a matter of hours, and maybe a bit from Guinan and any fellow El-Aurians. They barely had any information on the Borg and no way to test whether any of their theories and inventions actually worked against them. With so little information to base theories on, no-one could consider themselves to be anywhere near an expert on the Borg. Despite that, Shelby was tactless and threw her weight around and when they finally did intercept the Borg cube it quickly became apparent how little she actually did know and by the end of the story she had been humbled. Imo Shelby was the idiot and Hanson was just doing what he could with what he had because he had no other choice due to lack of knowledge and time.
You missed the whole point in the speech. Hansen knew that it was going to be a losing battle, knew that the Borg raped Picard's mind, stripped everything what was Picard from Locutus. But he wasn't about to let someone desecrate the memory of Picard. Picard would never do any of this willingly, so he did not "assist" them. What is on that ship is not Picard. And the only way he could justify to himself attacking that ship is to believe Picard dead (in all respects he was right given the circumstances... no one knew you could seperate a Borg from the collective yet).
We wouldn't have the Defiant without this tragedy. "Hell I'd prefer we didn't NEED a Defiant, why's everybody out there crazy powerful and crazy crazy?"
Wolf 359 defines the future of the quadrant in a lot of ways. This changes Captain Picard. Though you haven't met him yet, it changes Captain Sisko of Deep Space 9. This changes the Federation, where they are forced for the first time in centuries to acknowledge they are no longer the sole superpower and can face a humbling defeat.
I agree with Jen that the subtle PTSD moment at the end was incredibly powerful, and my favorite moment of the episode. Picard saw some shit. Thank you for watching TNG with us, Jen!!!
LaVar burton was in surgery at the time of filming this episode. So they used stock footage of Geordi from previous episodes. I bet you didn't even notice. That's why they had O'Brian doing the tech tech and making the collective signals similar to a transporter beam.
And now, another 2 1/2 seasons later, we meet one of the survivors, who instead of drinking tea and looking out the window, he built the BSMPH (known as USS Defiant)
I love how the Borg cube looks like it has many layers and structures underneath the outermost surface. It doesn't have a fully sealed skin like the Enterprise and other Federation ships. The special effects really were amazing on this show. They looked so good, without an ounce of CGI helping out.
Man I love how excited Jen was through this whole episode. Knew she’d like the music, but it was awesome to see the return of tactical Jen. “Yeah yeah, he know he was on his six,” “that was an awesome rescue plan.” 🖖
Remember Me, Future Imperfect, The Loss, Data's Day, The Wounded, Devil's Due, Clues, Night Terrors, The Drumhead, Half a Life... you're in for some good times in Season 4, Miss. M.
Something you can't "unsee"... Levar Burton was in the hospital when this was filmed and his shots were filmed later. That's why you never see him onscreen with the other actors... there's a couple shots from behind him but it's a double. This is also why O'Brien had a major role in the lab. Also, when Riker goes to the lab, Marina Sirtis looks away from Riker then abruptly backs up. It appears she was in the wrong position (blocking Picard) and was instructed to move back by the director to salvage the take. There's no apparent story reason for her action.
I think Troi steps back because she is making room for Riker to approach. She and Crusher had been on opposite sides of the pod Picard was in, and through her empathy and familiarity with Riker, she would be sensitive to Riker's need to see for himself. There's no way Sirtis would be so far out of position.
Q actually warned us. Remember at the end of season 1 when the Romulan and Federation outputs along the Neutral Zone were destroyed. The Borg did that.
Elite TNG. Who knew this team, in and out of universe, could pull something like this? The show/crew has traveled a great distance from the days of FAR POINT.
imagine having to watch as your own experience and face is used to destroy thousands of your friends and colleagues; then having to live with those memories.
Gotta love Jen’s concern over the random security guy going on the away team near the end there 😄 And yes, that little coda at the end is so good. No words, just a man who is pretending to be okay taking a moment to look at the planet he almost destroyed. It’s always been my favourite part of the episode. Well, that and the single year.
The 2 part is a foundation for many things to come in Star Trek. It is the catalyst that changes the federation from a civilization that builds peace vessels to war vessels. It will leave a scar that will never heal inside Picard. The thousands of deaths will impact characters you haven't seen yet who lost people in that fight. It will change how the Borg see the Federation and will change how they will come at humanity next time. Of course as a show it solidified a villain that is the perfect antithesis to the Federation. One that seeks new life and nee civilizations, but as food for progress and growth. One that left unchecked will eventually consume the galaxy.
I nearly got teary-eyed watching you react to arguably one of the best Star Trek outta the all the series and movies It did change Picard and the way he's viewed by some Federation officers down the line
This is a pivotal Episode. The Battle of Wolf 359 and the loss of 11.000 lives had a lasting effect on Starfleet and the Federation (in universe) and Star Trek as a whole.
More than a little PTSD. He was directly responsible for destroying all those ships and killing all the occupants. He has to have felt a lot of guilt and Star Fleet is amazing to have trusted him to take over control of the Enterprise so soon after without first evaluating if he still had some kind of connection to the Borg or was mentally fit to assume command again. Regardless you'd think after such an ordeal he would need to undergo therapy.
There were TONS of speculations and fan theories in the Trek community about how this episode was going to end, and many, MANY articles dedicated to that subject in every sci-fi magazine (no casual internet back then). The one theory I came across the most often is that the Enterprise crew would get Picard/Locutis back (which did happen), but Picard/Locutis would have a fail-safe computer virus implanted in him/it, which would disable life support on the Enterprise, killing everyone on board except Data, who doesn't need life support, and then we would get a (mostly) all-new crew, with Data being promoted to Commander and First Officer of the Enterprise, acting as a mentor to the new, younger crew and Captain. (none of this ever happened, obviously)
I remember having to wait a year in South Africa to watch the start of season 4 , as it alternated with other Star Trek shows.But it was worth it. The Borg ignited my love for TNG crew
For a long time Star Trek fan, having the Enterprise come upon the wreckage at Wolf 359 was a terrible gut punch. Sure, we've seen the occasional Star Fleet ship get destroyed in the past, but this was epic in scale. The devastation of so many Star Fleet ships, helplessly slaughtered and torn apart, firmly established the Borg as the ultimate threat the Federation has ever faced.
"Had ever" faced, but I will stop there to avoid any spoilers. I imagine the debris left over was turned into an historic War Memorial Site, like Pearl Harbor, Gettysburg, or that rockface at the end of "Red Dawn". 😢
You may notice that, from this episode onward, even the background actors wear the new Uniforms introduced at the start of Season 3, instead of the Season 1 and 2-Type.
I'm still jealous that you only had to wait a week to see this conclusion instead of the months I had to wait as a kid. Still, it's another great, if not very late for me, Sunday with Jen and TNG (and singing to the intro - one of my favorite parts!). Commercial break!
Thanks Jen! I love your reactions. The Borg are so powerful! You are right about that. And no, Picard is not all right. You sensed that too. Many more great stories to come in the Trek franchise.
The Borg having Picard gave them the advantage because now they had access to the knowledge of each ship strategy defensive capabilities they had access to everything except Rikers plan
I will say again that I am sure they also abducted and assimilated Admiral Hanson at the Battle of Wolf 359 as well as the other captains, Commodores admirals and etc who were there. One mistake Riker made was to only try to decompromise Picard, and not also the others from whom the Borg could have accessed for tactical Intelligence. And you know? It would have been nice if Riker had told Shelby to grab some more assimilated humans off the cube to bring them back also, before it exploded.
apparently at the time there was the added tension that Patrick Stewart's contract was under review and it very well could have meant Picard could have died
I love the moment of Loculus Vs. Data & Troi in their stare of/ confrontationf! Evil Man/Machine vs. Good Man & Machine. Wonderfully intense and symbolic.
8:33 You know it’s a good TNG episode when Jen swears and it’s left in after editing 😂 None of this “Holy Frig” stuff 🤣 Great episode. The Borg experience will be with Captain Picard forever and he’s changed by becoming Locutus in future episodes. Especially the next episode “Family”. Another outstanding performance by Sir Patrick Stewart.
This episode was criticized afterward because Picard was still active duty (he surely would have been forced into retirement after such an ordeal) and that Riker wasn't forced to take a captain's post somewhere after so many people had been wiped out. Just in general it doesn't make sense that Riker doesn't want his own ship, especially after these events. The show continues to pick up speed after this point, but it is hampered by the realities of actors under contracts. 😊
Yeah, it really would've trivialized the whole ordeal if at the end we'd just gotten the standard, "On to [space coordinates.] Make it so, Numba 1. Engage!" [soaring music, credits] So appropriate to have it end on the note it did.
You were cracking me up with the Commercial Break! exclamations!! LOL. I've seen this episode so many times over the years, it's easy to forget just how tense it was seeing it for the first time. Thank you for the reminder, Jen! Reaffirms to me how great this show really is. We were all so relieved to get Picard back, too! Like you said to Riker, you earned that smugness! :)))
Wolf 359 is a real star and it’s VERY close to us. Also, remember that the Melbourne had been the one Riker was about to take command of. I’m guessing that is why the camera cuts to Cdr Shelby’s face when she utters its name.
Hi Jen!! FYI...STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT is not a direct follow-up to this episode...It is just a later attempt by the borg to "assimilate" earth. If you want to go "in order" see STAR TREK: GENERATIONS first...it comes after the episode titled "family". Enjoy!!
The reason for the cliffhanger was Patrick Stewart renegotiating his contract so they left the possibility that Riker would continue as Captain but luckily they kept Stewart
I get the feeling that if she had to wait the whole summer for this second part (like we had to do when it was originally aired), Jen might have gone a little crazy! Just kidding Jen...well maybe. 😜
The knowledge and experience of the human Jen is part of us now. It has prepared us for all possible courses of action. Your resistance is hopeless, Number One
Someone referred to later Star Trek as "a post-359 galaxy". It was Chuck from SF Debris to be specific. And he said it like "post-9/11 world" for a reason. Now was he saying things SHOULD never be the same or is he saying they WERE never the same? That's for you to find out for yourself.
Just... thinking about the next episode makes me cry. I can't watch Wolf 359 without getting tears in my eyes. It's... much worse when you watch DS9, and you look back at Best of Both Worlds with deeper knowledge of the battle. I swear nothing gets me as emotional as Star Trek. XD ♥
