I went to an RV dealer and looked at a gorgeous front living room, full body paint fifth wheel. As I walked around, the “yellow tag” on the off camping side of the trailer stated the cargo capacity was 1280 lbs. I said to my wife in front of the salesman, not to even bother looking due to the cargo capacity. Said salesman completely assured me that first off, I would never put that much weight on the trailer and if I went over “a little bit” I would be fine. As for not frequently moving them, not using them full time, not using them in harsh weather, the blame goes square onto the manufacturer that puts the “Rated For Full Time”, “Four Season Rated” stickers next to the front door. Josh, I am a fan of your work, I appreciate you walking the tight rope but manufactures and dealers have been complicit in selling consumers on a life style that they do not have a product that will support.
It sounds to me that it’s time the government gets more involved in the rv manufacturing and regulation the way they do automotive manufacturing if you can’t move a rv there isn’t much sense in buying one the rv manufacturers have been screwing people for years it’s now time they were held accountable
There's nothing wrong with being passionate about the industry nor being passionate about your 'job' at informing 'us'. Love your candor and also in accepting the challenge to address any RV industry problem!!!
The flip side of this video is that going forward, the RV manufacturers could add more structure and support to the frames so that they are stronger than the current frames. At the end of the day, there is a strong movement towards people traveling all over the US and a larger desire from many of the purchasers to live full-time in these RVs. Really - if anyone bought a car model from Chevy/Ford/Toyota/etc. and there was a problem with a frame because people were "using/driving" the car too much, there'd be a nationwide recall. If you really want to call a spade a spade, no one should have any concerns about the frame that an RV is built on. It's funny that you don't hear about diesel pushers having frame problems... Just saying.
If they did that, while good for us, would possibly limit smaller trucks and more market segment. I'd rather have a higher gvwr with the trade off of being built like a tank, but not many people want a newer dually that can pull something heavier in the mid to upper 20s
First and foremost they are not regulated by the NTSB like at car or truck or a diesel pusher since they do not carry live cargo. Flip to the other side and look at those fancy horse/RV trailers, they are built like a rock (they carry live cargo) and the quality put into those trailers are night and day compared to an only RV trailer. Lastly it they built an RV as if it was to carry live cargo they would last at least 10-20yrs, meaning RV companies wouldn't be making money as people would hold onto them longer. Back in the day when there was so many smaller RV companies they put quality into there units, now those companies have been bought by bigger companies to remove competition and the quality vanished for profit. An RV is just like anything else you by now a days in our throw away society compared to anything that was bought 20+ years ago and still running
So many You Tubers I see, when they are giving tours of their new 5th wheels..."Just look at all this storage. We chose this one because of the storage." Hope they check and make sure it is not overloaded with all the stuff they pack into it.
The last two causes, "too much truck," and "moving it too much," are just cop outs by the industry to push blame on the customer. It's to cover poor engineering to maximize profits. Don't build me a vehicle designed to be towed and then when it breaks blame me for towing it around. Imagine buying a car and having the MFG go "well we didn't expect you to actually drive it around."
Agree... Consumers pay his paycheck not the manufacturer... If you don't have people coming in to buy, you are not going to get paid... Protect the consumer not the manufacturer.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but I do think a customer deserves to be made aware of those factors. And I don’t think that’s really done currently. At least with not any intention and consistency.
Actually, car manufacturers DO (sorta) tell you this. New car warranties are listed as both time and mileage. They're telling you if you drive it more than they expect, the warranty is going to end faster. As Josh said, there isn't (typically) a mileage/hour meter on a trailer. In this area, car manufacturers are doing a better job of telling you not to use it too much.
Great information & video Josh! I believe that speed while towing will make a big difference. If you are towing at 75/80 mph you will probably have more issues. I pull at about 62 & feel much safer.
Your right on that point....I don't know how many times I get behind fifth wheels and toy haulers heading out to the desert doing 55-65 and try to respectfully go around them to get my view of the road back and by the time I finally get around them/it were both doing 75+......when I am able to finally make the pass that same enditiy drops back to the original speed we were going when I attempted to make the pass..... unbelievable
Y’all must be different as all I see is campers flying by me. It really doesn’t matter because a camper doesn’t know how fast it’s going, besides a class a is usually going past the speed limit. The only fifth wheel I would ever buy now is a Cedar Creek and it’s only because I know someone that only works on Cedar Creek’s and he is better than the factory
Josh, your channel is much more than a simple RV review channel, it's practically a public service. Thank you for taking on these challenging topics and keeping all of us well informed.
Two things. Who knew they made RV's-campers to not be used as RV's-campers and taken across the country multiple times? Looking for a big RV to haul your toys, they ask? Well, I have this one, but you can only move it three times. Why three times I ask? Well, the frame starts flexing the 4th time you move it. Those models should not be sold as an RV but instead as a tiny house. lol And next is we have all wondered do I have enough truck to safely travel with this particular camper. I have never even thought about thinking do I have too much truck for this camper. The way you explained it was masterful. Josh, you continue to do the work we all need to here. Thanks brother.
I’m no different than you. I want to flip a desk sometimes over these kind of conversations because there’s just no reason it should realistically be such a mystery.
@@JoshtheRVNerd Of course there is a reason RV manufacturers keep this stuff a mystery...because they don't want to be held accountable! Honestly, the rationale in this video is laughable, and obviously came directly from the RV manufacturers...these stupid consumers shouldn't be using F-450 tow vehicles, shouldn't be using expensive shock-absorbing aftermarket hitches, shouldn't be towing the RVs more than 20 miles from home...even though none of this is expressly stated in their warranty.
I recall reading years ago in one of the camping magazines (way, way, back when paper magazines were a real thing) that RVs were designed for use rate of around two weeks of use per year, over a ten-year finance "lifetime." Not full-time usage. I don't know how true it was, but the idea was the average person only had two to three weeks' vacation per year, so they built the usage rate to match that. Basically, a full timer would put a full design lifetime of use on one it less than a year. Have no idea if that applies anymore or not, but somewhere in their design process, they have a specification for it.
@@kmbbmj5857 Yes, makes sense. Everytime you tow a trailer, it's essentially equal to your house experiencing an earthquake. Imagine your house in an earthquake 3-4 times a year. It would be falling apart.
Love your reply! Just one thing I take issue with. You imply that they might actually tell you how many times you can move it. In fact, if you read the warranty details, this is a number that you have to guess correctly on your own!! Alternatively, you can consult an Ouija board or magic 8-ball!!
Hi Josh, .... I have been following your channel for several years now and have concluded that you are one of the few in the industry who achieve a high level of transparency and accuracy on the topics you discuss, and for that I thank you and the industry thanks you! On this topic of frame failure, I have owned a 44 foot 'four season' fifth wheel and successfully travelled all of North America without any major challenges. I learned myself that Weight management was KEY to making sure the RV experienced the minimum amount of vibration and flex. Here are a couple of other suggestions that you didn't directly discuss in your video that could help other 'full time' RV owners be aware of: 1) The roads you travel (i.e. quality of highway and terrain). Many large fifth wheel owners like to 'boondock'. This is a terriric way to save some $$ but also get back to nature per se. The challenge with alot of this is that large fifth wheel owners are pulling your 16,000 - 22,000 lb RV through and over terrain that will stress the frame likely more than it was designed to stress. This reality is NEVER discussed by manufacturers or dealers relative to HOW you should or should not Repeatedly use your fifth wheel. 2) The frames on fifth wheels are designed and engineered by structural engineers. Hence, your point on Pinbox Weight being listed on the RV when emply is a great one. I would also add that they should add 'Max Pinbox Weight' so that owners can be aware of the amount they should be travelling with, (on the pinbox), before the fame / pinbox will begin to experience stress. This should be a 'known' number based on the frame design and steel strength and engineering. I hope this helps, and thanks for taking on this difficult topic.
this is why I converted to the gooseneck… The gooseneck can articulate or shall I say rotate side to side better than the flat fifth wheel that has a reduced range of motion.
You are spot on. The one additional item that I think is being missed by the industry, is the amount of horsepower and braking that newer trucks have. The ability to accelerate and stop is putting forces on the pin boxes that were never part of the equation before.
This is not transparency, he’s being disingenuous, he knows the rv industry is sending out crap. I’ve had 5th wheels and travel trailers for 30+ years, and never had a frame failure
I think you absolutely nailed it on this one! Education and information are sorely lacking. I spent 5 years researching before buying my RV, and still didn't find many of the answers. All of these issues you discussed are reasons why I decided to go with a Class A. Like your customer, I work from the road nearly fulltime, and I sold my sticks n bricks. Class As aren't a perfect solution to these issues, but for fulltimers and most-timers, it's a good start. Even so, educating customers (and dealers) on the limitations is a MUST.
I always appreciate your candor. There is nothing more impressive than honesty. On your dealer comment: You're absolutely right! There are not enough educated salespeople. I can't tell you how many times we were told. "Yeah, you can tow that with your half ton. No problem," when I knew from a lot of research (A lot of it from you), that it was too heavy for our F-150. We actually had a guy a few months ago that asked us right off the bat about our tow vehicle and then steered us away from overly heavy trailers. I let him know that it was much appreciated. I can't thank you enough for all of the RV education you have provided me. As a woman, I get a lot of people surprised I know my stuff when we go to look. My husband just stands back and listens with a big smile, which is pretty funny.
haha girl yep. Me too. Blue Compass tried to screw me. i not an idiot They add on 2% interest above what bank gives customer. you add up 2% interest on every loan that millions of dollars they squeeze out of customers.
Yes we weighed our 2021 Montana High Country 295RL when we first got it and found out that the the truck itself was 360 lbs over on the chassis. Had to get a dually. I told the dealer when I was purchasing the 5th wheel that I was going to be overweight and their response was you have plenty of truck. I always have the trailer leveled before opening any slides. You are correct their are array of issues that causes the problems. I always say we can fix things that are broke but we are better if we know what caused it to break.
You have to be honest and call a spade a spade. I have seen many of the same RVs having this frame failure issue. Those RVrs are weighing their RVs, they are using the correct hitches, they are pulling with appropriate trucks (f350, 3500, etc). I am an engineer by trade. If you don't test and build with factors of safety, you will see what is happening. The manufacturer under-designed the frame. They (RV manufacturer) made claims they cannot hold up to. Enough is enough. Quit blaming consumers. Blame the ones responsible.
Did you take away from this that I was blaming consumers? Because I don’t feel that’s really where everyone needs to look. I think they’re using Arby’s the way that they’ve been led to believe they could. And that lack of clarity and information is a major problem.
@JoshtheRVNerd , Josh, I have been watching you for over a year now. I have always thought that you were being upfront and honest with the information given until this video. Manufacturers are not dealing fairly with the consumers. You have to be the consumer's advocate. If an RV Manufacturer doesn't like it, so be it. Please be the advocate for the consumer and don't protect the manufacturers from faulty manufacturing processes and designs.
Dave here. I too watched the whole video and you did put the majority of blame on education and overweight. Nothing was put at the design table, especially the frame design. IMHO, it is ridiculous to build a 40+ foot RV with huge water / waste tanks and a cargo capacity of 1500 pounds. EDIT - especially for rigs "designed" with a designated washer (at 140ish pounds) and dryer (at 65ish pounds) location on one side of the front and not directly over the pin box. I have no dog in this race, but we almost did in late 2019. So very glad we didn't buy a RV.
I agree,. 100% blame on the manufacturing. What education can a consumer possibly do to be sure a manufacturer has properly engineered and then built the structure inside the trailer? I am totally turned off with the whole industry. We bought a mint condition High country instead of a Grand Design because I am very educated on spotting improper design and build. We were being shown a brand new Grand Design and I went to simply open a door in the kitchen and the entire door came off in my hands. Tiny screws that had been "stripped " when sunk into the wood. How can I ever know what the parts I can't see are going to hold up over time? Like the FRAME! I like you Josh but in this video you are trying to spread blame over everyone! How can a customer be held accounted for frame's breaking other then complete abuse of the trailer and it's intended purpose. I hope this bury's any manufacturer like Grand Design and wipes them out. The problem is that another one will fill the void.
This says a lot! My wife wanted a 5th wheel camper, but I told her I will agree to get what we previously had, but no RV. After I explained my reasoning, she agreed 100%. A few years ago, we had a 42' living quarters 4-horse trailer with slide-outs. All welded aluminum frame, all aluminum exterior skin and the floor from front to rear was extruded interlocked aluminum (no wood). The only steel was the gooseneck, electric jacks and torsion axles. Built to haul (4) 1,000+ lb horses. We used that trailer many times camping at campgrounds without horses. Could fold in the tack room and use the back as a toy hauler. We pulled that trailer all over NC, VA and TN mountains for a few years, most of the time was towing 2 horses and on occasion 3 or 4. I pulled it from western TN to central NC to get home and see that my wife accidentally left a cup half full of drink on the kitchen countertop, that cup was still on the counter and not a drop of drink was on the counter, which says a lot for torsion axles and a well-built trailer. Of the many thousands of miles I towed that trailer and the countless nights camping, I never had to repair anything. I just done annual maintenance on hubs and brakes, we used it year-around. Camper - My Mother-law purchased a new 35' camper. It was towed from factory to the dealership on the NC coast. Towed 6 miles to a campground where it was set on blocks and tied down. Two years later she wanted to move it to another campground on the coast, so I towed it approx. 100 miles to a campground where it was set on blocks and tied down. Now, 6 years later and less than 1,000 towed miles, it is falling apart. Every year she has to get multiple items repaired on that trailer, including rotted flooring, leaking roof, AC unit replaced, water heater replacement and so on, it's non-stop. This is with a 74 yr old woman staying there 2-3 months a year and it sitting (with hvac on, conditioned). I couldn't imagine what a disaster that camper would have been towing it a few thousand miles a year with it falling apart just sitting on blocks!
It's not just manufacturers, owners are just as much to blame. Ford chevy and dodge keeps giving these owners more power, more power is not what you need when towing
That was awesome! Someone who is new to the RV lifestyle hears about these challenges in the industry and I want to run far away. However, Josh you give me confidence that there are a lot of people in the RV industry that want more, higher standards, greater information and to set standards for improved best practices across all aspects of the industry. Thank you for the honest feedback and clear recommendations that you provided. Keep it coming!! This video should be standard for everyone to absorb so they can focus on improving the customer experience and increasing standards.
Thank you for the kind words. I feel sometimes like I’m shouting into the void but hopefully little conversations start leading the bigger conversations and eventually changes and improvements for everyone.
Your business Josh, needs fully regulated. It's run amuck and must change. The days of signing away your rights in purchase contracts with the dealer and manufacturers must end. Having no recourse against the dealer and having to sue in the state of Indiana must stop and stop now. What's in the BISH's purchase agreement? Does your employer have customers sign away their right to sue Bish's for warranty work not done or for product failure? I'm so proud that I researched deeply and then decided not to buy because of this type of business being done. It's shameful!
Great job, great info! I just have a problem with someone purchasing any rv and you can only use it so many times or the frame will break. Especially if you have spent $150k or more. Thanks for the videos!
I attend a music festival that has the camping area in farm fields. There are lots of ruts and when it rains the campers have to be towed with huge 6 wheel tractors. I watch the $300k+ trucks and campers drive into these fields to camp and am not surprised there are issues. Also, getting to the Festival means driving down a narrow tree lined road and the tree branches are hitting the roof of the taller fifth wheels. Thanks for another informative video!
It's astonishing how many things aren't standard or required on an RV. Thank you for sharing this information! I learned a lot of different things I will need to be mindful of as a future RV owner.
Hi Josh, it’s also happening to smaller 5th Wheels! Our KZ 283RLT is sitting at the factory right now getting fixed from frame failure! It broke our wall under the bedroom slide, plus the battery dropped out because all the screws came out of the plastic trough! We are trading it in as soon as it comes back! I can’t trust it! Thanks for everything that you do! You are my hero!!!
Yeah, it absolutely can happen to anything. The current discussion has really been focused a lot on big fifth wheel, but it’s not impossible to happen anywhere else.
@@mitchstephen5491nope dont blame ENGINEERS BECAUSE the owner is who makes final decision. I personally seen specs and plans and owner comes back and says too expensive etc so owner tells Engineer to cut cost. and engineer probably told owner wont work. but owner does not care because they are not regulated. like me selling you a car with no engine its be your fault for not looking under hood (i would never do that but private investors DONT GIVE A SHIT)
Toyota makes an awesome vehicle. Some American models just rust out too much. My daughter just bought a brand new Chevrolet Traverse. Its already having electrical problems. A part has been on order a month. It took them a month to decide what part to try. Junk, junk, junk. All this electrical crap is garbage. And wait until you are charged a fee to use your heated seats 🙄
@@mycharmedunicorn8715 Here is A fun game to play as you drive around. Notice that 99% of all vehicles you will see with a headlight or driving light out will be a Chevrolet/General Motors vehicle! Obviously a wiring harness issue! Mostly trucks and SUVs, although you will see many cars as well.
Thanks for the great info. We are full-time RVrs who travel across Canada and the states twice a year (from Nova Scotia to California). It is very much appreciated that you are willing to speak about the industry and properly training RV owners so that we have realistic expectations of our rigs/homes. We "overuse" our 26ft travel trailer but we try to keep our weights at about 80 percent of the GVWR so far we have not had any major issues. Your education has helped us with our own expectations so that we can plan for contingencies I case of an accident or RV failure. 😊
Love your videos and how educational they are. A subsection under the idea of "having too much truck" could also be, towing your 45' triple axle toy hauler at 85mph is probably a huge cause of some of this flex. I don't believe any of these trailers are engineered and designed to travel down the horrible Colorado highways at the speeds some of these tow vehicles are capable of. I try to stay below 65 everywhere possible and always watch the skidmarks on the highway showing me the heaves and bumps to slow down over.
Thanks Uncle Josh I never knew about this and never even gave it a thought, l'm glad you have educated me. I know how much junk we stuffed into our camper. We also stuffed the bed of my truck and inside the cab. 2 adults and 3 kids. I'll guess we were way overloaded. Even with a big gas V8 going uphill I got passed by big rigs, a couple of times we could barely make it to the top of a steep hill. Other bigger campers passed us. I figured it was because their truck maybe had a stronger engine. Probably not i'm thinking now we wrer just way to heavy!
@@crazycritterlady8788 Absolutely was. I live in California, knowing I'm gonna tow in those mountains. I wouldn't buy a trailer with a dry weight of no more than 70% of my towing capacity and max weight capacity of the trailer no more than 90% of my trucks towing towing capacity. You gotta have that buffer for terrain. Plus, not to knock gas V8's, but diesel, with that early torque makes huge difference on towing up inclines. I have a half-ton diesel.
@@jshoota19ify @crazycritterlady8788 I've been in California, and towed through it plenty of times.. and with a gas engine.. without problems. With Diesel handle it better.. well duh.. yes. Until you get sub zero temps anyways. And either way, you should still be weighing your RV to match for balancing and weight distribution. I make it a point to weigh mine whenever it's convenient.. 3 times in the last 5 months infact. I've never come up to my truck capacity (currently at 68%), and even with full tank of fresh water and fully loaded to live in, we're still only 81% of the trailers ratings. And we rarely tow with a full tank of water, I just wanted to see what it would weigh.
Seems you are putting a lot of this on owners and not the manufacturers, if they built a quality product meant to hold up over the long haul, a lot of these issues would be moot.
I would be curious to know if you saw the end where I had a message for mfgs and dealers Or any of the times where I said “how can you fault an owner for never being told how they were “supposed” to use it”
Most of us who tow our RV with a semi-truck remove the commercial hitch and install a suspension RV hitch. The suspension hitch provides a much smoother ride. The commercial hitch does not pivot side to side putting more stress on the RV frame.
We thought that we bought our GD Solitude 390RKR from a GREAT dealer. Found out they are just like everyone else. They lied to us for MONTHS about a problem we were having, but the could care less. Last place I would take our RV to be repaired, our dealer or any other dealer. Sorry, just our opinion.
I strongly agree that information needs to be more readily available. Additionally, build standards should be improved and customer service after the sale needs to be upgraded. Thanks for sharing this information. Awesome
Thank you so much Josh. I'm so glad to see that you were willing to put on your big boy panties and talk about these subjects that people either don't want to talk about or are scared to talk about or just don't know anything about. I agree with you 100% that the industry needs to start designing and building their RVs around some of the aspects that you spoke about. Now I am one of these people that do have a massive 41 ft fifth wheel and I do have experience with fifth wheels this large since 2012. I learned very quickly that the more that I move and travel with an RV this large that the acceleration of the damage to the RV was increasing at a very fast rate so being part of an organization like Thousand Trails that you move from park to park every 21 days was putting a toll on my RV that financially I was not going to be able to recover from and that was without any catastrophic issues that may pop up from time to time. So I had to learn how to extend my stays at different location and slow the traveling way way way way way way down which allowed me to actually enjoy the places that I was visiting for a longer period of time and not being rushed but at least I'm not destroying the RV going down the highway. Moving the RV 17 times a year was not very good for my investment and I would end up replacing the RV every 3 to 5 years because it would be just totally worn out and my pocketbook would be empty. I totally agree with you we need to find out how these RVs are designed by the manufacturers for the type of use that needs to go along with this particular RV like Towing it with the wrong vehicle or taking it down roads that the RV was not meant to go down or upgrading Parts on the RV that were really not designed for that particular RV and of course the big one not knowing the weight of the RV when it's going down the road and how it coincides with the maximum use weight of the RV and if the weight is evenly distributed and not just put in one location which puts stress on all of the complete structure in that area. I think that the manufacturers could help with that by not just putting one large garage containment area up front and spreading different storage areas in different areas of the RV so that we as consumers can spread our weight over the complete frame and not just over the pin box. And Josh again I just want to say excellent job bringing this up please let's not forget what you started please let's continue to talk to the manufacturers and the dealers and the customers and try to solve these issues and not forget about this video you put out and allow all of these items to be swept under the rug and never resolved. Thank You, Bill
THANK YOU! I am so tired of all the incorrect information and basic wildfire panic going around. Mostly, its either 1) and engineering failure or, 2) a manufacturing failure. And any of that could be exacerbated by overloading, extended use and publicity - many are the larger fifth wheels veing used fulltimd by popular RU-vid personalities.
And none of them are taking any responsibility for the damage. If you point out that they may have contributed to the failure, you will be called a troll. I believe the cause is a combination of both manufacturer and owners.
I believe that there are way to many moving parts here to find the absolute reason (s) this is happening. ie: The road conditions, I-80 in ohio for example. The truck pulling it, is the suspension or tight or loose. The pin box jerking the trailer back and forth, The trailer suspension bouncing the trailer, improper loading of the trailer ( nose heavy or worse tail heavy or just overloaded entirely), Usage of said trailer (NOT accusing but salty northern roads or worse yet salty Florida beach air.) how the trailer is driven (85 mph down I-95 heading to Margaritaville, We have all seen it!) , is it a full time usage, proper setup/weight distribution and teardown, storage conditions when not in use. Oh the list goes on and on. Why yes sometimes I believe it is the fault of the trailer mfg or should I say the guy welding the rv frame on the line just having a bad day ( we all have had one at work admit it.), and last but certainly not least poor quality of materials received in the supply chain. All of these factors and more lead me to believe that in a case by case study we will find no one smoking gun but a combination of events and situations that is hard to quantify but all have roughly the same outcome.
@@ryanryan6207 You are so right...I would be considered a troll. I believe there are many causes to what is going on. I have a 2018 394 Momentum, no issues to date. However, I tow slower than most ~65ish mph as a safety precaution. Here in Utah, I could do up to 80 mph and be within the speed limit. Like many, I'm concerned about potential frame damage with my trailer and looking at everything that I might do to protect my trailer. FYI, I will be inspecting the lags in the bedroom and front of the frame. I've seen pictures of those put in by Grand Design and believe larger 1/2" lags that fit the holes in the frame would be an improvement. Keeping tow speeds down, especially on rough roads will surely help. I will be weighing my trailer to assure I'm not overloaded while also cleaning out and reducing weight in the front storage. Towing without a full tank of water whenever possible is also desirable. While not always possible, minimizing hard accelerations and abrupt stops is also desirable. (Keeping a good safe distance from vehicles makes this is easier to manage) As for acceleration, many of our TVs have more horsepower and torque than ever before. Hard acceleration will definitely impact the pinbox to frame and the vertical frame supports. For those of us with a trailer already, we cannot change the engineering or build of our trailers...we need to do something preventative to protect our investment as they are. I'd love to see/hear more ideas from others about their thoughts. Thanks ryanryan6204 for your post. Love this channel. Thanks to Josh for taking the time to provide his insights.
Hi Josh. I started following you a few years ago as we were looking to buy a towable trailer. I find your videos informing and appreciate your knowledge. I may be able to help with some info on this. I work for a very reputable California RV repair shop. I have been seeing some pin box issues as you describe, but by far, the more serious and prevalent issue is frames cracking in the web right at the area where the spring hangers are welded to the frame. We have repaired around a dozen of these in the last year. The mfgs are helping customers in some cases, some not, usually dependent on age of the coach. The issue is by far happening more often to 5th wheels, vs towables, but we repaired two towables just last week. We see more issues with GD than anyone else. After months of denying the issue, the mfg's have now come out with a bracing kit, with instructions on how they want it installed. Owners, look for horizontal cracks in your frame, that will occur anywhere from the front axle spring hanger, to the rear axle spring hanger. They are usually easily identifiable, even to the untrained eye, as they will look like cracks, with a rust line in the crack. I have seen anywhere from one to even three cracks per side. Inspection is very important, pull the wheels if you have to. If you are affected, the sooner you catch it the better, for warranty consideration, as well as safety reasons.
With decades of testing and forensic failure analysis engineering experience, the RV Industry has legendary unacceptable component, parts, manufacturing, assembly, designs, and business practices that end users are frankly done with all the bs. With record RV sales during the pandemic has resulted in record number of pissed off end users. As a result there have been significant litigation cases significant talk of new legislative actions that hopefully will significantly improve designs, reliability, warranty, and service related issues for all parties involved.
Uncle Josh this video was incredibly good. So many details, questions and thoughts addressed to the best of your knowledge. I’ve said it before as well as so many others, we need so many more Uncle Josh’s The rv world as well as the world would start being a much better place. Your passion for your profession and doing the best you can is so inspiring and you are a true saint. Keep being and doing what you do👍🏻 I for one have learned so much and i truly appreciate all your work, honesty and integrity. Take care, keep safe and see ya next time👍🏻🙏🏻😃
Good video. FYI several folks, including me, have had issues with the lag bolts connecting the upper structure to the sides of the frame. In my case one bolt fell out completely. I've seen several videos/posts where several bolts simply loosened up and/or fell out. In some cases, a larger lag bolt is installed. Once the bolts loosen/fall out, the structure is subject to a lot of movement. We were lucky in that the frame had no cracks, but the aluminum structure of the cap area had two cracks. Both were welded and several gussets were installed on the frame. "So far" (6000 miles later) everything is holding up. I make it a routine to now check the bolts occasionally and when attaching/reattaching the rig, I watch for any vertical movement of the pin box relative to the cap structure. I also want to make note of the fact, that in some rigs, the frame and pin are rated higher than the GVWR, therefore one can be "overweight" regarding the GVWR but not the actual rating of the frame/pin. In our rig, our tires, axles, springs, frame and pin are all around/at 21,000 while the GVWR is 20,000.
Very interesting. You are the first to mention the lag bolts to me, though I absolutely do not think you’re the only one that’s encountered that. As you said yourself, you’ve seen a few other folks that have suffered the same challenge.
It gets worse. Today, I inserted an Endoscope inside the channel that encloses the lag bolts. Only could see two but one was mostly out of the hole and the 2nd about 1" out of the hole. Spent the whole morning tearing apart the cabinet covering the channel, Once opened it, only one was flush and the other 2 about 1/2" out. All were snug except the first one. As others have stated in their posts/etc, I thing it need larger lag bolts as there is about 1/8 or more excess hole space. So back to the dealer on Tuesday.. ug. @@JoshtheRVNerd
Preach brother - I have been wanting to get a 5th wheel, but with the sudden rash of broken frames (some call it flex). I have been doing some reach and noticed that most are the big 45’ trailers. Have seen several smaller (avg 35’) that have been all the way to Alaska that haven’t had that problem. I know that things break, and know RV’s aren’t any different. I just don’t want to wind up paying another 16,000 on top of purchase price for a repair that isn’t normal wear and tear.
This is a manufacturing issue. It sounds like you’re covering for the Rv manufacturers that are having this issue. What about the Rvers that travel full-time. I’m sure when they’re purchased their rigs, its never mentioned. It seens like the Rv manufacturers are using cheaper supplies to protect those profit margins and now are seeing the consequences.
I think everyone knows rv quality has gone down !!! I believe manufacturers should build better products. With substantial better suspensions and pin boxes. These are meant to be moved often. Clearly, there's a problem with quality and building. Nice job Josh, great video !!!
As a retired truck, driver, I approve of this. People watch your axle weights if you have a halftime and fill up the back of the bed of the truck with firewood, it might tow terribly.Just sayin
Absolutely! Mechanic speaking Anytime you overload a vehicle suspension it will ride on an overload spring or bump stop( or when hitting a big bump the spring rate will increase dramatically) transferring to the axle housing and trailer frame. If your back and butt feel it, your trailer feels it! The public roads are also getting so bad with pot holes, causing all types of problems
A missing thing that would have helped here IMHO would be a simple photo of a fifth wheel trailer frame as a bare chassis. Then compare it to a photo of a gooseneck flatbed trailer such as a 14k 24' flatbed gooseneck for example. Both chassis are similar in gvw, pin weight rating, and if you compare the frame thickness between the two, as well as the physics of the shapes, you will be flabbergasted at the stark difference between the two. The utility gooseneck trailer will have between 3/16" to 1/4" thick steel, and frame rails with much taller webs and strength in the design. The fifth wheel RV trailers are a HUGE compromise, trying to build the frame with an incorrect shape with regards to strength, in order to accommodate the flat and low floor desired for the bedroom area. They're just focusing all the stress of the pin weight onto the front landing gear area, where it's destined to flex and eventually fail. Also, the steel used is way way too thin IMHO. This can mostly be fixed by simply designing the frames better, with a more reinforced shape to TRIANGULATE the shape better, distribute the loads better across the frame, and add rigidity. It's a simple problem to fix frankly. But when the whole industry uses only one frame mfg for about 90% of the frames, there isn't a lot of design variants to compare and build from.
Josh, Thanks for presenting this video. Very good info. You brought up trucks. Here's one I have learned the hard way. A 1/2 ton truck might very well be rated at 9-14k towing. What people do not understand is that the camper might just be within the weight limits of the truck, however, when it is 37.8ft long, it can really be a challenge to tow it properly and safely. Ask me how I know..... On the 5er's... You brought up several points, but, I think that adding things like a washer / dryer to the front of the RV can contribute to the issue. And, I also believe that front kitchen models are another problem. Really, I personally believe that you should keep most of the weight over the axles or even further back, and not towards the front. I am no expert, but, weight could very well be causing these issues. Just my humble opinion, but, I would never have a washer/dryer in the front area, nor a front kitchen with that heavy residential fridge up there. Finally, I think that some of the problem is indeed the manufacturer, trying to get more for less. The frame should be able to exceed the design of the RV. Some of that would boil down to using thicker steel, and, work with the frame manufacturer to develop frames that were designed for the weight the RV builder is going put on the frame.
Thanks Josh! Great info for new RV owners and experienced ones as well. Your effort to be as honest and even-handed about the problem, solutions, and causes is appreciated and refreshing. Your love for the RV community (owners, dealers, and manufacturers) comes out passionately in your delivery. Don’t change or apologize for that. 👍👍
Glad to see you address the elephant in the room. RVs are not built like commercial vehicles they are lighter and for the most part not designed to take on daily loaded use. Commercial vehicles are. RV 5th wheels different design in the box and supporting crossmembers. Commercial bigger frames larger crossmembers and fifth wheel king pin is mounted to a apron that covers frame to frame with crossmembers for designedadded strength and stability. Their are a few RV manufacturers that go above and beyond in their products design and construction those seam to be more along the lines of customer orders either on a commercial chassis or Made for use and travels boondocking.
Josh is right on several things. The Semi Tractor dual rear axle normally carry 30,000 pounds, FMCSA weight limit is 34,000 pounds for the double axles for truck and trailer and 20,000 pounds front axle. If you put just 1/10th of the weight on the 5th wheel, the springs wouldn't know and every bump would shock the 5th wheel. People who put airbags on to take the weight instead of allowing the rear to sag as designed does the same thing, shock the trailer pin. A vast majority of pickups pulling RV are overweight, example is an F-150 Platinum towing a 10K bumper pull WILL be overweight even though the hitch and everything load it properly. An F250 with a 6.7 diesel pulling a 40' 5th wheel will be overweight, as they have very little payload due to the diesel engine. It is very easy to overload the trailer, especially those with large storage bins. Everyone hauling an RV should get at least one proper cat scale done. Weigh the truck alone as it will be when traveling, then hook up the ready to travel trailer and weigh that, subtracting the truck weight to get the trailer weight, and subtract the rear axle weight loaded from empty for the pin weight. It is simple math.
I will say that due to the length of this video, I had to wait a few days to watch it. Once again, your video was explained perfectly. I had never heard of too much truck before. But I drove MDT's for almost 30 years. So it makes sense. They bounce terribly. Especially when underweight. I will say that I have watched your videos for almost 6 years now. And you are one of the reasons we have the 5th wheel we do. I made sure it wasn't too long, and it had an impressive cargo capacity. Thank you for being there for us, the consumers.
I’m glad you are taking this up, Josh. I reckon a whole lot of people are having these problems, and it’s very sad. We are great full that all 3 of our Keystone models had no issues like so many others.
@@JoshtheRVNerd: An ‘03 Montana, roughly around 30’, then we traded that in for an ‘06 that was a bit over/under 40’. After those two Montanas, (we sold them) we decided to demo our house and rebuild with new, so we bought a Keystone “Hideout”, which was great, but it was nowhere near a Montana. The Hideout was the only one we lost $ on. All in all, I can’t say enough about Keystone products. The hideout was a a2016 model.
I own a 2022 Grand Design 260RD, the drivers side frame failed near the slide, Grand design took care of us 1000%, picked it up and took it back to Elkhart, fixed it, and returned it to us and made everything right. Still a happy GD customer. They stood behind the product and there customer.
My understanding is that the frames are made to RV Manufacturers specifications. Perhaps the specs for the frames are inadequate for what most customers consider normal.
With all of the other channels detailing their issues, this is a breath of fresh air. This represents the best depth of the issue. You raise an important issue when modifications are done to the hitch or using the trailerering systems out of specifications. In the same way, if I modify the suspension on my jeep wrangler, I assume the responsibility of potential failures. It is no longer Jeeps problem, even if it is a certified mechanic that does the work. It is not to shift blame, it is to assume the risk. The other points were fantastic. It does not diminish the issue, but it is a reminder of the rare nature of this issue. Great tips to check as we are on the road. Thank you again.
Josh, My wife and I were at a show yesterday looking at RV's we were able to meet the owner of Alliance. Coley was very forth coming with all questions we had. To the point, his responses were in line with what you stated in this video. I asked him about the frame failure, and he did not avoid the question at all. As a matter of fact, he stated many of the same things you did as to why it is happening and where Alliance falls in that spectrum. Thanks for always putting out the hard information and trying to do the right thing always.
Our family is going full-time in a 23' Alliance Paradigm 390MP on Friday. After doing a lot of research and speaking to countless folks - both in the Alliance owners community and on the corporate side - we felt the most comfortable going with them. Time will tell if we made the right call but comments like yours are always reassuring to hear. Transparency is king!
I agree with you on everything. I also think manufacturers need to step up and get behind the product they are selling. If they can't why should we buy them? The prices for this are ridiculous and should be built they way they advertise them.
Thank You for bringing this problem to a more understanding perspective, in my opinion, the frame makers and the manufacture of the house should be held responsible more so than the dealer for making sure everyone is educated to the fullest
Josh - Kudos for taking this subject on. My assessment on what you're overall message is that the industry for the most part is building units to a "minimum" acceptable standard, low CCC's on most everything out there from travel trailers to Class A's, along with everything else wrong with the units, on and on. The dealers for the most part are over-selling units and under servicing units to unsuspecting customers who don't have a needed Bachelors degree in how to buy and RV today.. That it's now the customers fault for over-using a product that's not intended to be used that much ?? Over-loading a unit that has a unusually low CCC today vs. similar units from just 10 years ago and the customer is at fault for their units failure for towing a fifth wheel with a tow vehicle that's over capable ? Really ??? The RV industry is screaming for consumer protecting government regulation across all aspects of it from poor manufacturers to deceptive dealer practices without the ability to service what they sell..
Thanks for doing this video. One thing you didn’t mention is the issue of frame manufacturer and RV manufacturer not being the same company. I’ve seen it mentioned in other videos that RV manufacturers are putting too much RV onto frames that weren’t designed for it or specifying frames that are lighter duty than what is required.
When i was looking, our original intent was to purchase a larger 5th wheel. When i started to look at them, with my engineer hat on, it became obvious the frames were under designed for the load (forget what was added to it by the owner). Basically they are using the same basic frame as the smaller units. If the rig isn't being used, 2 - 7K axels might work, however once that is taken on the road the trailer is seeing loads 2x-3x then what it experiences stopped. Seeing posts daily about broken axels or blown tires is the giveaway, that should not happen with properly designed frames and suspensions. I decided to get a Class A diesel pusher. They are are actually designed to handle the road. The idea of buying a trailer that is not intended to move alot is riduculous. Are semi trailers not able to be moved daily? How many of them have frame failure? Why don't the tow vehicle experience the same failure? There is no reason a recreational vehicle can't be built to be used daily. The answer is these trailer manufacturers are not bound by federal regulations including dynamic testing and as long as there are dupes to buy them, nothing will change.
THOUGHTS FROM A BUSINESS JET LOADING PERSPECTIVE: In some respects, this question of RV loading, Gross Weight, added equipment and weight distribution are identical to those encountered by airplane buyers. When a business jet customer would come to 'spec out' his airplane, the manufacturer was very careful to not only calculate how much weight was being added to the 'brochure weight' but also how that weight affected the overall fore-to-aft balance (Center of Gravity) of the aircraft. This CG balance was super critical to both safety of flight and performance. In addition, every pound of equipment added meant one less pound of fuel, cargo or passenger that could be safely carried. At delivery, we weighed every airplane and provided the customer with charts and data showing how much actual carrying capacity was left. It remained their responsibility from then on out to recalculate this data for the lifetime of the airplane anytime equipment was added or removed. In addition, the FAA regulations required that all designs would remain safe and airworthy at 50% beyond their design characteristics. I would think that modern frame designers (Lippert in particular) are using computer modeling that provides a damn accurate understanding of load, stress and ultimate failure points. I don't know if they ever design to 150% of ultimate load, but I suspect that keeping frame weight down is a huge driver in their design criteria. Aircraft manufacturers would also placard every drawer and storage space to show just how much weight could be added. Just because you had a massive baggage compartment in the tail DID NOT mean you could cram anything that would fit inside it. We also NEVER allowed modifications that were not specifically approved by either us or the FAA (I am thinking about your Pin Box comments). Perhaps these large-length toy haulers need more information from the manufacturer about weight distribution and maximum loading in specific areas. It also seems like "Delivered Weight" should be included and placed on every unit prior to delivery. Maybe that information should be a precondition of purchase. As to these RVs being designed for 1-ton dually setups, that is an interesting thought. Is that true? What do the computational models show as assumptions for the transmission of shock loads into the pin box??? Finally, the notion that RVs are not really designed for full-time, long-haul use seems like a huge cop out. Most airplanes are designed with a maximum life in mind. We didn't tell our customers, "sorry, this only an occasional use tool." Telling customers that $170,000 products are really just built for 'occasional use' suggests to me that they may be wildly under-designed.
Josh - great video- thanks for informing us about the issues. I tried to do what you suggested when I bought my RV and ran into roadblocks everywhere. I have a 2019 Cherokee Wolf Pup 18TO Indiana built. GWVR 4999 pounds. Stopping by the Forest River Cherokee factory in Indiana, I got a tour and drawings on how the RV was put together. I got copies of every document/drawing they had but what was missing was astounding - cabling run locations, electrical interconnections, water interconnections, Slide out frame structure and any structural statement on what the safety factor was in their design. They had one engineer trying to keep up documentation for 94 models of Cherokees - over several product lines. Now here is where it gets really weird. The Oregon built 18TO uses the same part number for the frame, same part number for the axle and the same part number for the TBD yet the GWVR is 5600+ pounds. What gives? Calling Forest River customer service - what waste- they wouldn’t even tell me how the TV antenna was wired let alone any information on the design weight of the RV, or any safety factor. I called Lippert who made the frame and axle and told them of the identical part numbers between the Indiane and Oregon built models and they said the same part number can have different specs - what a way for them to get confused. After I told them that, they wouldn’t talk to me. I consulted the RVIA specifications - no help there either. So now, I don’t know if I’m overweight on the Indiana specs but underweight on the Oregon specs, am I in for having a frame failure or too much flex? My only solution may be to strengthen the frame if I want to keep the unit. By the way I do weigh it occasionally.😦😦😦😣
Lippert says that the Reese goosebox is designed for their frames and that it DOESN'T void their warranty. As far as I know, that's the only goosebox factory certified by Lippert.
I've been following a few of the YT RV'ers that have this problem. It seems to be a common denominator is generators in the front compartment and frequent moving of the RV(just like you reported). And who. Knows how much more crap they have stuffed into the front storage compartment. Add a washer/dryer to the front closet and there's a whole lot of extra weight bouncing around on the frame. These 40' + behometh RV's aren't built for this kind of weight/use(although the manufacturers/dealers certainly market them as such. Units are still designed and built like it's the 1990's; recreational and infrequent use a few times a year. However today buyers on these large RV's are utilizing them as replacement sticks and bricks (and they cram as much crap that was in the sticks & bricks into the RV). Manufacturers need to keep the build weight low so that buyers can stay under the requirements for a CDL and a MDT to tow it with.
Thank you for your educational information. We were very seriously interested in getting a large 5th wheel for our retirement future, however after your video & others we will NOT; due to the lack of transparency & accountability by the manufacturers & there lack of care & concern for the consumers whom purchase them. I will not invest my hard earned money in a product or an industry that isn't interested in not only being forthright about its products & problems, but also, that is not willing to, at the very least police & regulate itself!! I see any financial investment not only foolish but also dangerous.Thank you again for all of your information and your accountable.
I think these RVs have a lot of natural flex so they can keep the weight down and they never considered that everything would literally break apart from shifting while going down the road . After the situation on wet roads the camper will literally rot away and everything leaking...😮
Josh, Your focus and drive is commendable. As a retired aerospace engineer at one of the top three spacecraft producers in the world, I look at this in a different way. Root cause! I'm sure the industry has severely under engineered their frames. I was not a structural engineer, I was a test engineer, however if we wanted to pickup a piece of equipment that weighed 1000 lbs we would design the lifting fixture to pickup 1500 lbs and proof load it to 1200 lbs. (not actual figures). My point is we know it will pick up more than our intended weight. I'm sure not one mfg. has the budget to engineer their frames properly, however if their was an active engineer out there that can take a typical RV frame and identify a common fault, maybe everyone can benefit from that. I own a 2018 OutdoorRV 5th wheel and love it. I do keep track of the towed miles and other thing Im sure no one els keeps track of, but I like data. I bought that brand because the MFG family RVs on forest roads and they clame to know how hard off roading can be. They also mfg their own frames. I don't go off road but several dispersed camp ground roads are not maintained and I feel comfortable with my rig. Any way I believe you are going down a very difficult path and If I were in the market for an RV I would fine you. Thanks for your time and good luck.
My 2023 VanLeigh 42RDB is 18500 gross. Yet they use the smallest possible axle 8000 pound x 2 for max 16000 on the axles. It should have 6000 lb triple axles. Not that you could overload it, but the axles could handle more stress that’s distributed over a wider area.
Josh puts up some good and valid points, but he didn't mention one very well known and obvious possible reason for frame flex (failure). The RV industry is suffering from an decrease in quality from the manufacturer. We all know it, if you doubt it, check out your local RV dealership's service center. I guarantee they have more brand new RV's to fix than they can handle, with some waiting times being over six months before they can get to your RV. Techs will generally be honest with you, its no longer a "parts issue", its a tsunami of problem RV's. Also, the length of a RV warranty is shrinking, where the usual length is now only 1 to 2 years. If the manufacturer doesn't have enough faith in the RV, why should you? We either need the manufacturers step up, or we need a national RV lemon law to force them to step up.
High highway speed, rough roads that you can’t avoid, and low cargo weight allowances.. even location of fresh water tanks being located up front.. all contribute to high tongue weights and pretty rough conditions. But this is “real world” vs some unrealistic “model scenario” by the manufacturer.
The real problem is Manufactures are forcing the frame makers to make substandard frames that are not structurally sound when going over uneven ground such as road work...etc they reinforce some for front to back flex and weight bearing but not for side to side flex in order to save a few $$$ and that's why I think most of the failures happen.(there is also a video out there that supports this)Yes the consumer does make all the errors you pointed out, like the woman who sued McDonalds for serving her too hot coffee and won, they need labels for people like that.
Most Frames come from Lippert who has been in business for a very long time and know what they "should be" doing to build a decent frame. They choose not to and hire sub par labor.
My towable had a hitch advertised rating weight of 650lbs, fully loaded under its max gvw it was actually 1760lbs! Not " 1/2 towable anymore. Good thing I had "too much truck" 😊
Wonderful video with well explained information. The design of the large fifth wheels could be done in a manner that people, being what we are, will overload or improperly load things and then fall outside the design parameters. Guilty of this myself and could really do a yard sale wherever we "camp". Something you didn't mention was where we take these rigs, a lot of campgrounds are remote and require traveling on less than perfect roads, if there is such a thing. This is really true with toy haulers due to the expected usage at boondock sites and "play" areas. The condition of our highways and the driving habits contribute a lot more than most people would expect i.e. pulling an overweight trailer up hill when going through mountains, hard acceleration and sudden deceleration will be extremely hard on the front frame area. Something that affects the balance is where and size of the water tanks as well as the amount of liquid in them. I have heard several recommendations to not haul a full tank of fresh water when travelling. At 8 lbs per gallon and close to a hundred gallons or more, puts a lot of stress on everything. Keep up the good job you are doing with informing people and I look forward to your next one.
Okay I watched your entire video. 41 minutes and some odd seconds. First tractor trailers weigh 80,000 lb not 40. On Long Island sand and gravel trucks are allowed to run 120,000 lb. If they're building RVs to only handle 1,200 lb somebody's really building crap. After watching several videos I can honestly say I will never ever ever buy an RV. I might rent one no matter what it costs I'm going to rent one cuz I want to give the nightmare back to the dealer. A Mack truck with 44,000 lbs rears and a trailer on top of it weighing 80,000 lb can drive from Florida to Alaska and back and not have a frame failure. I've never had a frame failure in any car I've owned any vehicle I've owned any truck I've owned. And when I was in the trucking business I ran in pothole City, New York City and trust me those roads are more rugged than out in The boondocks. Try not to defend the manufacturers because if they're making these things so lightweight and charging well over a hundred thousand dollars they could invest a few extra dollars in box steel and welded correctly. There is absolutely no excuse for frame failure in an RV. No one out there has experienced frame failure in their car and I run a bunch of old cars and they all run just fine and their frames never crack. I understand you have to protect your manufacturers but weight should not be an issue in an RV. None of the issues you brought up about weight should ever be an issue in an RV. 20 trucks and a few million miles later I know about frames and fifth wheels. This issue is poor manufacturing
I totally agree that manufacturers need to publish more data on their RV's, in fact the used market could REALLY use the help, our salesman knew next to nothing about our RV, he was basically a cashier, in fairness to him though it was a trade in of an RV brand they never carried at that location, so his only opportunity to research it was after it was traded in, and the guy likely had a similar experience to us when trying to find a rich resource for information on this particular niche model, which there was none.
There are a ton of YTers out there trying to monetize that are selling this dream that you can take your home with you and lead this fabulous nomadic lifestyle and a lot of them have formed an unholy alliance with the manufacturers. I'm not saying they or the manufacturing reps that they show on their videos at the big shows are bad people, in fact the opposite is true, but because they've formed these personal relationships it leads to neither side wanting to hold the other accountable becuause of those bonds that have been formed. And a lot of them are affiliated with the company that starts with a G. One really well performing one from my homestate of TN even worked with them designing their current model. Both need to start being more honest and stop worrying about number of views by pretending you can have your cake and eat it at all times.
Josh, this is very well done, and helpful. One minor quibble - one new, popular 5th wheel manufacturer, on their website states that their RV is warranted for full time living. What is the owner supposed to think that means? And they aren't the only one.
Does it say the word living or RV? Because that’s the thing… You see full-time and usually it says RV after that which does not mean living. Do you have a link you could share?
Josh, this is an outstanding informational video. I so appreciate your fair and balanced treatment of a very "hot button" topic. I agree that there is a lot of information that manufacturers could provide that would help consumers make more educated decisions. I also think that the dealerships should shoulder some of the responsibility by making sure their salespeople are trained not just on the specs of what they are selling, but the RV experience. Fortunately, I spent almost 4 years planning for and researching the RV I wanted and knew it inside and out before investing almost $100k. I say fortunately because my salesman had never owned an RV or even spent a night in an RV. He had absolutely no idea how to guide us to the right model to meet our needs. How hard would it be for a dealership to rent a few RVs from Outdoorsy and have a weekend training/camping experience with all their salespeople and even their families? It could be fun and would certainly give them more credibility! Thank you for all your wonderful videos. I always enjoy your energy, humor, and insights on the latest things happening in the RV industry. Take care!
Making it easier and easier to hold onto my 1984 Holiday rambler imperial TT and fully rehab it to use at retirement vs buying a new rig as I have been planning
NOT ENOUGH STEEL. COULD BE CHEAP THIN STEEL OR NO STEEL AT ALL. And NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACES 😕 O3 MARCH 2024 SUNDAY TRAILERS are not WATER BOATS 🌊 BOAT ⛵🚤🛥️⛴️🚢 YOUR ON A HARD ROAD 🚛 🚒 🛣️ 🛤️ 🏔️ BUCKO
All these how and why explanations from manufacturers is just putting all the “blame” on users. Sounds to me like they are building these frames to the bare minimum spec, with no extra safety factor. They should be building frames that can exceed usage factors beyond the recommended loading specs.
Josh, this is one of your best fact filled videos I've seen. If I was in the market to buy a new RV, and could finance it in Michigan, I would hop right on over from Ontario to visit your home dealership. (Fixed a typo, lol)
Well, BOTH of my campers were "Special Ordered" as Four Seasons livable, and that they would be used as Work Housing that would quite possibly be in a different state every week. NO one including the Manufacturer said anything about Mileage limitations. I damn sure would have kept MY $80,000 in MY pocket, and done something else if they had. I definitely learned to keep spare axle bearings, seals, greaseable hubs, and extra 16 ply spare tires on hand real quickly though.
It doesn't matter which one is responsible. The problem is the RV math factors and don't care about quality. And they don't fix the problems. Never mind Actually try to make a decent quality product like they used to.
