Larys Strong = Best Strong, so very helpful and concerned with everyone else's problems despite his own. He's such a little trooper putting on a brave face after suffering the tragic loss of his family.
@@vidarrboot72 It really is a burning question as to why someone awful would want to reduce most of the house of Strong to smouldering embers like that? Poor Larys.
@@J1283-s1k I blame the ghost of Black Harran... That and Westoros' woeful fire safety regulations, I'm amazed more stone castles haven't gone up in flames tbh.
@@J1283-s1k It's the curse of Harenhall the actual killer doesn't matter In the books Littlefinger is the current Lord of Harrenhall he will clearly die in the show too he died(I hated his death tho)
Isn't it also said that skin changers can take on the characteristics of the animals they possess if they stay in the same one too often and too long? Maybe Larys has taken on some characteristics of rats, who will eat their own to survive and thrive in the same way Larys metaphorically consumes his own family to get ahead?
The rat cook story also comes to mind. I wonder if there’s any connection with his family. Also, his family is seated at Harrenhall which is believed to be cursed. Lots to go on here!
I like the Larys theory, I think you're right about the Weirwood editing. But I think the rats are foreshadowing something different, and it's not necessarily Blood and Cheese. I think it is conspicuous that the rats have always shown up when Viserys is around. They appear when Viserys is talking with Rhaenyra and he is revealing the Song of Ice and Fire prophecy, just after the death of his wife. They appear when he is sleeping with Alicent and we see his rotting back. They appear at the wedding after he collapses and they drink the blood on the floor. They appear when he is alone and doing nothing of significance other than mourning Aemma. The connection is these all have to do with death and weakness and Viserys. What this foreshadows, I think, is a change or additional detail regarding his eventual demise. I believe that either he will be consumed by rats after his death, or that he may even be killed by rats during a nap. That he will be too weak, too feeble to defend himself against rats or to even call for help. The rats, symbolically, are like vultures, or even like the crows that he compares his small council to in the first episode.
Really fascinating theory, I think you've convinced me. Can't wait for the next season. Have some audible credits, thought about getting the book... but I think I'd rather wait for the show. Did the same with LOTR when I was in high school, ASOIAF, and The Expanse... oh, and Dune. I like reading/listening to the books after getting some visual context.
There is also a moment, when Larys is talking to Alicent, right before he goes to the dungeons, you can hear the sound of rats 🐀 whyle the camera is still on Larys face
If Larys is indeed a Greenseer it would make an interesting trend of Greenseerers having physical disabilities, (Bran's paralysis, Bloodraven's missing eye, and Larys' club foot) and having them overcome these disabilities with their magical abilities.
Late to this, but also very interesting that Larys, Bran and Bloodraven are all physically disabled in some way (Larys' club foot, Bran's legs, Bloodraven is a one-eyed albino). I wonder if perhaps Bloodraven will take cues from Larys, further paralleling how Bloodraven taught Bran after his 'death'. Very interesting.
I think the link here is the old gods are clearly trying to cull house targaryen and their dragons. First it was Larys being a sparkplug for the Dance of Dragons, then its Bloodraven and his revenge in all the blackfyre rebellions, and now Bran who has been promised he will learn to fly (likely warging a dragon). The old gods' motives are coming into focus.
Well if they’re all connected via the weirwood hive mind. No need for inspiration. Bran, Bloodraven, and Larry could all be literally working together as a single entity towards a shared goal.
I think an important thing to note is that in the books it's mentioned several times that too lie in front of a weirwood is a really bad idea, and here we have Rhaenyra lying in front of a weirwood only for a apparent greenseer to suddenly start moving against her
Yeah but in fairness she did answer them question truthfully since alicent just asked if she screwed d.... Which is a bit ghastly to straight up ask. Also i thought the lie had to be presented to the tree and old gods?
@@The-Doctor6969 no she said they didn’t lay together- that was the distinction she used No- she didn’t lay with Daemon (But she did lay with Criston) At least that’s what I rmbr from that scene I don’t rmbr the words “daemon didn’t touch me/ I didn’t touch him” in any vatistion
@@zekemyers4444 I understood it in the context of “he never effed me” not literally he never touched her. The wordplay was what Rhaenyra was doing throughout the convo I don’t know why that particular phrase would be different.
Larys is one of the creepiest character ever created. He is literally the demon who whispers into the ears of powerful people who he can manipulate by playing on their weaknesses and ambitions.
Anyone noticed the rats didn't start showing up until the strongs entered the picture? Like seriously episode 1&2 no rats, then larys enters and so do the rats
@@JoeMagician that is true! I completely forgot lyonel was there. But yeah it wasn't up till his son showed up. Maybe this is why when it comes to game of thrones they mentioned having a cat problem 🤔
@@Smalltown_Man well by Robert Baratheon’s time maybe Bloodraven had made sure there was an established colony of cats to catch the rats in the Red Keep, especially if they smelt a bit Strong to him?
He appeared at the right time too. During the reign of Viserys dragons were proliferating, and everyone a potential threat to the realm (except possibly Cannibal).
I was thinking, he probably knew something. He definitely working with Daemon but why? What makes Larys want to work with Daemon? He literally saved ALL his children. He saved Aegon's iii lives in return of his own life. He must be knew something
at some point, the red keep became home to cats. back in book 1 if i remember correctly, arya was made to catch cats as assignment from her waterdancer swordmaster. i wonder if there is a deliberate reason for the cats being there.
@@gholamdapantaloonsniffer8218 yea true. but i think i remember tyrion saying that at some point, the red keep had a rat infestation. these could just be bits of unconnected things, but my interest is piqued.
Great point! Maybe there was a hostile takeover of some kind. I also think the cats were being controlled to lead Arya to the tunnel entrances in preparation for her escape. Rhaegar is probably Serio. And the black cat missing part of its ear most likely belonged to the princess that had just been killed. So maybe the cat was a royal spy as well.
Spoilers for Fire and Blood In Fire and Blood, it says that Otto Hightower brought in a bunch of cats to catch rats after Aegon II had all of the rat catchers in King's landing executed due to the Blood and Cheese plot.
One of my favorite J-cuts in GOT is when Tommen jumps out the window the audio cuts to Frey saying "For House Lannister!" then the video cuts to a toast at The Twins
I watched your video about Larys being a greenseer, because Alt Shift X mentioned it. Seemed plausible, but kinda far fetched. A few days later, Episode 6 came out and I was astounded how on point you were. Congratulations!
Same here. I thought ‘man that’s cool, but the show runners don’t have the balls, surely’ and then bam, next episode Larys is fully cosplaying as Bloodraven. I’m curious to see if they’ll even touch on the Isle of Faces, or just leave the green seeing as an Easter egg for fans. Great stuff either way!
Once you realize that just about every event of import in the War of the Five Kings was facilitated or orchestrated by BR, you begin to suspect any and all well-informed persons with a drop of First Men blood as wargs and skin changers. Any adult with a disability is only alive due to some massive advantage. Missing an eye or limb doesn't always count but I don't think many small folk would survive an amputation
@@jeffreyruttibaker1081 People congratulate eachother for having birthday... If you only congratulate someone for curing cancer, then you obviously have zero experience in this area and therefore I don't value your opinion. Thanks for trying to be so constructive and helpful
Considering what Bran and 6 skins are capable of in ASOIAF, if Larys can warg rats couldn’t he have survived his execution in the books by warging into say…Tyland Lannister? Would explain a lot about the “hooded hand” in Aegon III’s reign.
I really like the Greenseer/Earth magic theme in the books. The Greenseers are the balancing force in the struggle between Ice and Fire. The First Men have a relationship of balance with the Children, but under the influence of the Andals and then the Targs, they neglect it - except in the North. Something has to bring it back.
Maybe we’ll get a scene of Brynden Rivers coming into the weirwood cave with a nearly 200 year old larys wrapped in the weirwood but instead of the tree coming through his eye it’s grown into his foot. Would be a funny post credit scene.
This is a great analysis. The greenseer magic really adds another dimension to the various goings on in Westeros. Alas, the conflict between Alicent and Rhaenyra still seems to petty in comparison.
If the rat in Viserys's chambers is controlled by Larys as a silent observer then why is it doing everything in its power to be noticed by racing across the mantle like a bull in a China shop rather than quietly watching and listening from the shadows?
Perhaps the rat is confused as to why it always finds itself in the king's chambers even though it was clearly on its way to the kitchens for some cheese? As soon as Larys leaves the rat, it hastily scurries off by the most direct route.
In a cyclical world, all we need is to know who/what happened first bc it will happen later. I knew Larys was up to something important when he made a comment about hibiscus growing "only in Braavos" just like stories we've heard about lemon trees a century later. He holds a hibiscus flower at other times. But not before he sits down with all of the women, who've always got the gossip, and eats a lemon cake! It's put together beautifully.
I enjoyed that bit involving Viserys observing the rat. It's as if he has a different understanding of the world than most around him, just to become so fixated on something that subtle and supposedly ordinary, which could lead to tremendous ripples through Westeros.
This video could go along with your Strongs being secret Starks video. If they had Stark blood that could explain why Larys can greensee through the Weirwood.
IIRC anyone with the blood of the first men can be a warg and/or greenseer. Isn't like 1/1000 first men descendants are wargs and 1/1000 wargs are a greenseer? Going by memory, so those ratios could be off, but it's something like that. Edit: maybe I am wrong, I can't find the quote I'm looking for
@@rhaenyralikesyoutube6289 that is correst but I was just saying the Starks because he has a video saying the Strongs are actually lost Starks so I was trying to tie it together but you are absolutely right any one with first men blood can be a greenseer.
@@ThatSB No he didnt. You are saying this because he wrote the books? Id love a source for your claim. The books say that there are no weirwoods in kings landing and Ive heard plenty of these asoiaf channels that know the books inside out say the same. Also GRRM isnt directly involved in the series.
@@xLovepieGRRM is directly involved in the series. He is with all the shows based on his world. He’s also executive producer on the upcoming Dunk and Egg show.
Once again Joe, fantastic video. I've been a fan of this channel for a bit now and am so so glad to see you getting huge props and shoutouts from everyone from Alt Shift X to In Deep Geek to New Rockstars!! You deserve all the attention and recognition for your hard work. Keep up the amazing eye for detail and thank you for your time and dedication!
I wondered about the rats and also thought he knew way too much to not be informed. I didn't put two and two together until I watched this video...actually it was you that put it all together tbh! Because of this alone, I'm subscribing to your channel, if I haven't already.
Larys also meets the physical requirements of a Greenseer - Greenseers have the blood of the first men. The Strongs are a first men house - Greenseers are physically weak or crippled in some way. His club foot
Thank you for acknowledging Bran's agency in the atrocities. He put Daenerys on the path to genocide, and does so knowingly. Once you become a part of the Children and their Gods, you can no longer be relied upon to possess a sense of human morality. Bran is the host to an amoral alien intellect. If Larys was taken in at the isle of faces, it stands to reason he might be as well.
@@lesliemisaacs It's touched on in this video. Daenerys learning of Jon's parentage is what started her on her path to madness, and the show runners confirmed this for whatever that's worth. That knowledge found it's way to Daenerys only because Bran passed of that knowledge to Sam (exactly when Sam was most likely to want to take action against Daenerys). For any other character that sort of sequence of events cannot be blamed on the person who starts the snowball, so to speak. But Bran can see the future. So when he begins a chain of events that just happens to result in him taking over the world, it's entirely reasonable to wonder how much he knew about what was going to happen. "But Bran is a good kid!" you might say. And maybe he was, once. But he's not Bran anymore, something he says directly.
"Bran is the host to an amoral alien intellect.". So. The white walkers were created by the Children of the Forest by magically integrating dragonglass in them. And there are hints that there is something greater going on. The religion of the Lord of Light is centered on belief in the existence of two deities, in the words of Melisandre: "A god of light and love and joy, and a god of darkness, evil, and fear, eternally at war." R'hllor is the god of fire, which provides light, heat, and life, and struggles against darkness, cold, and death, represented by an opposing deity, the Great Other. At Castle Black, Melisandre refers to the Others as the "cold children" of the Great Other. So the White Walkers are the servants of the Great Other, who is Death, and the prince that was promised was destined to fight him according to the religion of the Lord of Light. If Bran is with the Children of the Forest and the Children have made the White Walkers then is Bran an extension of the Great Other, of Death? In search of the last dragon. And Jon Snow aka Azor Ahai, destined to fight the Great Other. The story of Game of Thrones, if anyone's is that of Bran and Jon. is the final battle for the iron throne be between Bran and Jon? Ice and Fire.
Shit, what a theory that popped into my head. The entire Dance of the Dragons was set up by Larys only for Lord Stark to come south and marry the Blackwood woman. The descendant of this pair will be Bran Stark endowed with the magical powers of the Blackwoods. The Green Seener has created the Ultimate Green Seener.
I think Larys is the current version of the Three Eyed Raven. If the three Eyed Raven is just a compendium of knowledge connected to the weirwood net and working on behalf of the children then it could be a role that's been passed down for generations and used to weaken the realm steadily until it was weak enough for Bran to take over as the supreme overlord of Westeros
@@lesliemisaacs He's not Bran anymore. He tells you that. And even when he was still Bran he was totally willing to use mind control to steal his friend's body to go spelunking, an act which explicitly caused his friend intense terror.
It's plausible. In this era the Isle of Faces would have been home to a functional weirwood overmind, and wouldn't have lost that functionality until magic goes dormant south of the wall much later. So a crippled boy with First Men blood living right by the God's Eye would have been an obvious candidate to act as an agent. The mistake, I think, is treating the Three-Eyed Crow as a fundamentally separate entity from the rest of the weirwood collective intelligence.
The fact that Lyonel's bedroom door was nailed shut but Harwin's obviously wasn't begs the question; was Harwin actually a target or just collateral damage?
Antoer thing to watch for in Larys case is that the animal you skinchange to changes your behavior, if you choose a bird you might lose yourself to the sky, choose a deer a you'll become a coward so I wonder how does skichanging into rats has changed. While they are not exactly cowards, they can defend themselves, but their mindset is to survive/adapt, him killing his family with little remorse makes sense considering rats will sometimes eat eachother if they need food.
Larys Strong reminds me a bit of Zaheer in Korra. "New growth cannot exist without first the destruction of the old." "When you base your expectations only on what you see you blind yourself to the possibilities of a new reality."
lol they’re nothing alike 😂 If anything, Larry is working for the old gods. Not destroying the old ways, but bringing them back. Also Zaheer was just a poorly written character made for babies.
Did anyone else clock when helaena was playing with a spider at driftmark and she shut the spider in a shell with her hand, it cuts to larys instantly regaining his balance (I think?)
I just subscribed loved this in-depth video that no I was not aware of. But I totally see it now. The clues are there.. and apparently so are the rats. Great video!! Can't wait too see more.
I think that it is not explicitly mentioned in the book because there is no POV from Larys. The Maesters who mostly composed the history either where oblivious to Greenseers or they had not interest to mention a "magical" help in the plot since they were some much against the idea of magic...
Book canon for Fire and Blood is tough because it’s not a character POV. It’s not a first hand account. It’s histories told by people who didn’t even witness the events unfold.
Speaking Howland Reed. I have always been baffled by Meera's tale to Bran about him going to the Isle of Faces. Without actually telling Bran or us the reader she tells Bran one of two things either Howland reached the island more then 40 years prior to the day he left or carried a boat overland 100s of miles before entering the lake somewhere nowhere near harrentown because he has never scene Harrenhall before which he couldn't have missed when entering the gods eye and at very least would have heard about Harrens castle If he had trekked overland and detoured so far out of the way of the route he would have taken which it seems like she tries to explain that he always tried to make the times he exited the water minimal. Since being out of water meant danger also has to carry a boat every time he does. Anyway given all of this him having never scene or heard about the castle prior to seeing when he leaves and the fact that it took forty years to build had it not been there when he first goes to the gods eye would make sense to his utter surprise of finding it there after but from its creation to when that tourney would have been is literally like 340 years so is the gods eye a place where time doesn't move the same way it does on the rest of the planet or does this show the long life of the children and it being passed on to the reeds who supposedly married and breed with children of the forest.
Also with Meera's story and the way in which she describes his fear of the lord of the crossing made me think on top of great place for bridge it is In a key area to try and block people in the neck from being able to travel down river and Harrenhal now blocks and guards anyone's easiest route from Trident to gods eye entrance made me wonder if these two castles were built in these key locations to stop access to the gods eye from neck dwellers. Meera also talks about how many knights are drown and under the bog waters but there are never any direct wars or key histories that explain why a group of people so secret and so alienated by rest of world that prefer solitude would in such modern times still be such a disturbance that people want to clear them out. Wonder what your thoughts are. Am I reading into a over exaggerated children's bedtime tale or key details to the story are said between the lines
"The enigma that is Larys Strong the Clubfoot has vexed students of history for generations, and is not one we can hope to unravel here. Where did his true loyalty lie? What was he about?" - Gyldane Of course Gyldane would say this if he didn't know (or refused to entertain) that Larys was a greenseer. When you can see or hear nearly everything going on of course your loyalties are going to be ambiguous and shifting. People can complain about there "not being any evidence" of Larys being a greenseer/skinchanger in the books but thats literally only because its the exact thing Gyldane wouldn't admit to himself was a possibility
Yes, a lot of people need to be reminded that the book is intentionally written as a very unreliable and biased history book. It was never meant to be accurate, so them using it as the evidence for their argument is a little ridiculous.
@@mariavi33 The problem with this argument is that while it’s true the book isn’t accurate, that really only brings us back to square one. The book being biased still doesn’t prove Larys is a greenseer, and the book is our only source on the matter. “The book doesn’t support it” is absolutely a fair argument. For the people who are claiming Larys is a greenseer, the burden is on them to come up with solid evidence. It’s not enough for them to just say that all the sources against their argument are unreliable (especially when their own arguments rely on the exact same sources.) Lack of counter-evidence does not serve as evidence, but lack of evidence does serve as counter-evidence. Fire and Blood is inaccurate or unreliable because it’s meant to create ambiguity. As far as we know, Gyldayn could still be 100% right about all his speculations and theories. Or he could miss the mark on everything. However, it doesn’t mean the opposite of everything he thinks must be true.
@@Former_Halo_Fan I didn't claim that it proves they're wrong or anything else. I was just talking about the people who claim that they have to be right (because of the book), that the source they use as evidence isn't reliable.
What do you think Larys is going to ask Alicent for when he calls in the favor? Does he just want chaos? His motivation? He's already the heir of Harrenhall now after murdering his father and brother.
Tbh I got some sexual vibes when he plucked the flower but that was the flower they were discussing together before the timeskip as well so it could just be a symbol that Larys is patient and willing to wait so idk. Looking forward to finding out
@@xPooogle515 I got that impression as well. Yes, he's very cunning and ambitious just like Littlefinger, and Varys later will be, but I got the impression that he could be "looking for dead men's shoes," to quote Anne Boleyn; meaning that should Viserys die at some point, he might seek to become King through her, or something along those lines.
Absolutely brill analysis. The kudos from other talented ASoIaF/HotD RU-vidrs is well deserved. If Joe had written GoT S5-8, it would've continued the mastery of S1-4 rather than Derp& Derpier's Project Ruin.
This video made me a subscriber. You’ve done an amazing job piecing this together using subtle and more direct clues provided in the show both through the audio and visuals beyond just the dialogue, absolutely bought in to this theory and look forward to watching more of your stuff.
Those of us Deep Space 9 fans definitely got some strong Odo the shape shifter vibes when seeing those rats. Odo would often change into a rat to spy on criminals and some of the rat-laced scenes in HotD made me think of him!
Holy fuck. I just watched this and am floored. To think that the show is being done on such a high level. Man I read the books, I pay attention, I think of myself as highly intelligent, but if you sat me down and made me watch raptly for ten years, I would of never came up with that genius conclusion. My hats off to you sir. You should be working on that show. This video just revolutionized how I'm gonna watch everything from now on. And I would guess that max I could count on one hand the number of shows/series that are at this level of complexity. I would love your recommendation of anything out there that is at this level. You really deserve so much credit. Like I seen some of your older stuff, from this show as well as Game Of Thrones and just wow. The show after the show podcast was just great. 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 You are next level bro. I still have the last of the three books on the GOT series and I just ordered them again and even the Fire & Blood...I'm gonna start over now. 🙏
I hope that they never make this explicit, but it would be cool if they have Larys knowing something that he could have known only if he or a spy were in a godswood - but they should make it clear that he is elsewhere at the time and (somehow) that there could be no practicable way for someone to spy on the scene (except through the weirwood). Preferably, they would space out the original scene and the reveal that Larys knowsby at least the majority of a season, if not more, so that only astute watchers will even realize that he should not know it. As you lay out, they do come close, but it would be good to have the time delay along with a near-guarantee of the impossibility of Larys knowing or figuring it out via any means other than magic. Still, they are doing some very close to that right now.
Larys is disgusting. He killed the two beloved strongs in the whole show. At least with little finger you get redeeming qualities. But larys just sucks.
Man i was wondering about those rodents, from the jump! But this could put it all together. Episode 2 and 3 had me suspicious, episode 6, I was on the same line of thought. How this king who metaphorically blind to the obvious, so on point to notice this rat and not only notice pay attention like he's being watched? Larys knowing about the moon tea was to sus but they played it well.
Maybe Larys is the Lord of Light's Rival's version of Bloodraven? I mean he plays a huge role for the Greens, and he's way more loyal to the Hightowers than the Dragon Lords (who know about the coming Long Night). Plus, we know this war wipes out House Targaryen's most formidable weapons against wights
this is such a good theory! iirc the weirwood tree isn't in the books so adding it into the show had to be for a reason. same sort of principle as chekov's gun.
Nothing in film and television, or even literature, is on screen to further the narrative. Nothing is pointless. We were showm those rats everywhere for a reason and that reason has to be this. Dope catch, man.
Great content! I noticed the tree & the snake analogy & saw your video about this character & was like "something to think about." When I saw the rat in the last episode, I was like "he"s right!" Viserys most likely Knows what the rat really is. Viserys knows a lot, but he purposely plays dumb (on the show). The problem is he is too forgiving, not stern, and refuses to take action in the name of keeping peace. Yet, playing feeble (if he is) in this case, is the smartest thing to do. He is too clever to be really feeble to me. About the 3 Eyed Raven, Bran- I was on to him thanks to the books. I believe that He could also see through the 🔥 as well & in the intro he stood in the background mean mugging Dany - I was like "right" she is his opponent.
Love this theory. Who else finds this character fascinating? I wonder if the beetle that Larys uses for his emblem is one of the creatures he can skin change into as a warg or green seer.
Really enjoyed your Larys Greenseer video and I'm glad to see you've made another video on the conniving rat-spy. I think we can all agree that character is starting to become one of the most intriguing characters in HOTD **sniffs flower**
Wasn't there a suspicion of there being rats in the walls at Dragonstone, or was it the Red Keep in the books,when Tyrion learned about the secret passageways Varys was using,and how he was managing to maneuver around unnoticed? Little birds,spiders...things that have EYES, but around aren't thought twice about...yeah,rats...why not? Isn't that why there were CATS in the Rad Kerp,to keep rat population down?
I have not seen this whole video so I do not know if Joe addresses this, but The Strong Family ARE descent from the First Men, as seen in the chapter The Dying of the Dragons - Rhaenyra Triumphant in Fire And Blood. Boast about it, in fact. Every Greenseer we have seen in action {Bran, Jojen, Bloodraven and MAYBE Euron} all have First Men blood in them, so Larys also being would not surprise me in the least.
TIL rats, like birds, aren’t real - they’re government drones! 😂 Also, I assume Mormont’s raven was a warg who died (like Orell) - just human enough to remember how to talk (ravens can mimic human speech IRL) but not human enough to have a full convo. I can’t wait to learn more!
Watching this after the "Ratcatchers" episodes I think this theory is even more confirmed. Larys being aware of (and certainly having influence over) ALL of the rat catchers being killed really puts the nail in this coffin for me.
