(1/3) TBS Crossfire Series: Overview and Introduction 

InstaBlaster.

+Bing80 thank you. If I can get my hands on the antenna and Vendetta II - I will! :)

+R L :D

It's education, not shaming that makes better pilots.

Xzadfor Spacefox g(non. Nnnnnjm

Thanks for the comment. I am planning to spend more time on it in the next video as 90 degree gives better signal quality as you move the craft but lessens max range. Thanks again for the post! :D

Interesting to know what makes you think that. This doesn't extend your range - that's affected by antenna gain (and to a certain degree transmitting power). Two identical parallel antennas perform precisely the same as one: if you bank your aircraft *both* signals drop, whereas in a properly placed 90 degree setup, there will always be one antenna that is oriented towards your transmitter more optimal than the other. You will also get a noticable improvement in range when you use a directional antenna on your transmitter, but then you'll have to keep facing your aircraft. Do you fly long range FPV? The Crossfire is a very good system to do so, but then longe range video also becomes a thing (diversity the other way round!). Keep it up!

+Jeroen Brosens as you say it’s about antenna alignment..

That is a good idea for a video. I'd use sbus and a MAVlink pair..

+SIU nice idea, thanks.

Charles R Taylor not sure why? ;) I talked a little about this in the second 'answers' video. For longer range you need to use 2.4 or 1.3 Gigahertz FPV with a good directional antenna and as much power as is legal in your area. When the FPV blue stuff gets a little cheaper, that might be worth a look too. Happy flying!

Exactly. How is it useful to have long distance control if you can’t see where you’re going? Doesn’t make sense

Will do! :D

Yes, covered in the series..

+John Doe the LUA script and the OLED screen both allow you to do all the setup steps. I’ve not seen the signal/noise spectrum analyser graphs you get in the module in the script yet..

Adding a time-code really helps me to find the bit you mean. If you mean at 2:20 then that is the TBS Tango radio... Happy flying!

Great idea, let me add that to the list, there seems to be confusion about how all of the new graphs work.. Thanks fro the post..

+Cyndre Lien great suggestions thanks. I was planning to talk about the 90 degree options on the reciever antennas. You lose total range but gain stability of signal as the craft moves..

Thanks Rav! Happy flying!

Select internal vs. external transmitter and you can choose between the two. See my video on it. You can find it by Googling something like 'external module painless360'

if youre in europe get the eu version rest of the world prefer international version, no you cannot use a 900mhz antenna with a 868mhz, they are tuned for different frequencies, on the module itself you can just change fw suiting your location.

+BrutusTheUgly more in that next time.. happy flying!

The next video is uploaded waiting for release so you can see all about that in that video if you look in the Crossfire playlist. ;)

Great thanks you :)

See my video on antenna alignment in the Cro playlist where I cover that.

I appreciate your help. I have subscribed and watched many of your CF videos. As a person new to CF, they have been very beneficial. The Failsafe on my quad was from a bad receiver.

Please watch the series and my builds with flight controllers and Crossfire so see exactly what you can do with it.. Best of luck!

That is a TBS Tango! :D What do you mean by 3G/4G stuff?

not so much for long range , rather it has better penetration for reliable coverage in areas that 2.4 has problems. e.g. dense brush, concrete buildings etc.

The main advantage for a racing quad is the increase in speed over s-bus and the extra features the full duplex operation will give us when it's working (in BF 3.3 hopefully).

Glad my videos are helping it all make sense! :D If you can't find something on the channel that you need, let me know!

@@Painless360 As a matter of fact....Yes!~ Thank you! As a newbie in the RC/FPV world, sensory overload is an understatement! It's exciting and overwhelming. I had a 3 ch crystal plane with flags that cost more in the 60's money than my current plane and txmitter. I've a FMS Fox 3000 at FEDEX facility in Troutdale, Oregon due to arrive at my home in North Central Washington Tuesday. I have a Spektrum D-8 G2. It seems Spektrum was once a leader in FPV but sis no longer or perhaps changed names???? I'm unclear if my Spektrum D8 D8 can do FPV/Crossfire. If not, can you call out what gear will get me up and running? Thanks and Cheers from Tonasket, WA

Spektrum isn't great for working with non-Spektrum kit. FrSky used to be the goto for things like Crossfire, but now it's vendors like RadioMaster and the ExpressLRS rsdio system for modern hobby... best of luck

@@Painless360 That's what I needed...just a push andto be told which way North is! ;-)

INAV for Beginners 2023 (Baby AR Wing PRO and INAV 6.1.1): ru-vid.com/group/PLYsWjANuAm4q-i0YGMJGLOfaYIuNIYPfF is a build using modern technology and choices... Best of luck

+Mark Pfeifer no CRSF support on the Eagletree system ( see my series on it) so you connect it as you you would any sbus system.. hope that helps..

I'll add that to the list for future videos..

I have no idea, let me know if you get this working. DJI kit is not designed with 3rd party operability in mind...

@@Painless360 will do!. i have seen others get dji working with crossfire (but using the ppm output plug on the dji remote to the crossfire. However its using ppm with increased latency). Their aim was to get a more robust link control to their drone so they wouldn't failsafe. They were not bothered about getting telemetry back.

I've seen two. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ST9LON1-Bvg.html or using an Sbus to PWM converter.... Best of luck

Those are quick ones - 1) |The whole point of CRSF is that's it's bi-directional and very fast. You need that to 'talk' to the module for setup from the LUA script.. S-Bus is only used at the far end to talk to non CRSF enabled flight controllers. 2) see the answer on the other comment you posted :D

As you asked, here is a sneak peak - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pBQl9IUN67c.html ;)

+Gon Qu got it. Thanks..

Noth will work great. I don't use the extra features of the larger unit (with the exception of the screen!)

@@Painless360 so better radio like 16s can do a telemetry to a tablet by Wi-Fi or Bluetooth so I could use micro tbs module ?

I'm not sure that any of that can get the telemetry to a PC. If that is something you really want then I'd use separate telemetry radios. See my PixHawk 2023 series for how that works with MAVlink and Ardupilot.. Best of luck!

+Prop Bender thanks for the idea. You’ll need to use the trainer port set to PPM and the 3.5mm cable supplied..

Thanks so much. This product really interests me. But all set up vids are FrSky.

EzUHF works on 433 MHz, 1.3GHz is on the 3rd harmonic (4x433~1.3G), in other words, your VTx is interfering with your EzUHF receiver. Use either another RC frequency or another video band. Just always make sure that your video frequency divided by your RC frequency isn't a whole number.

+3000gtwelder I’ll see what I can do. kiss.flyduino.net/download/bundled-firmware-v1-3rc30-for-kiss-fc-cc/

I believe it is..

I wasn't until you wrote that! Let me see if it's something I can get setup.. :D

+maxun1 thank you for the comment, ill sure try to make this system a little easier to get the most from.. happy flying!

Power too..

Painless360 just seen it's possible to run it in open mode for "testing" purposes (why would anyone buy a 2w capable module that's limited by software?) good overview anyway cheers

+jamble7k Every country has its own R/C power limitations and to get certification and comply with the laws, TBS have had to add this feature. It's up to you whether or not you want to ignore it, disable it, or use a country settings with a higher power level. Doing it that way the responsibilty for any law breaking would sit squarely on your shoulders. Happy flying!

MAVLink from what exactly? Full duplex mode will be supported in BF3.3 from what I can see..

From a pixhawk. I'm comparing to ULRS that has RC and a full transparent two way serial link. Its not very robust though so a commercial product would be preferable when one is available with more than just frsky telemetry.

Voting +1 for that. There are enough LRS's on the market, but the Crossfire is very useful regarding its serial downlink. Think telemetry, antenna trackers, flying autonomous missions etc. it would be nice if you could highlight this feature in one of your vids.

+Jeroen Brosens I’ll add that to the list. Lots of options for MAVlink with this system..

MAVLink was one of the initial development goals/uses for this system. You can configure two of the pins on the Crossfire Rx to be MAVlink TX and MAVlink Rx and then connect those to the port on the flight controller sending the MAVlink telemetry. Then you can share that MAVlink data using Bluetooth with any device (only on the full size Crossfire TX module). Then you can connect to it with your device running Mission Planner/QGroundControl using that BT link and have all of your MAVLink telemetry and control over KM of range.. :D I'll cover this in the third video in the series..

+Chris Harris I'm not sure it's worth doing entire review just to help with one problem ;) What have you tried? And what is the actual problem you're having?

I had that problem before. The button on the back of the Micro TX is very finicky about how long you press it. You need to press it once very quickly, then power on the RX. It should be in bind mode. If the light in the TX is blue the firmware on the RX needs to be updated. Just. Press the button again, very quickly and it will start the process of binding and updating. Hope that helps. It was driving me mad at 1st! If you press the button even a split second longer on the micro tx, it won't enter bind mode

Yep - see my RadioMaster videos..

Thank you for your quick reply. keep up the videos. I love them!

I will when it's supported fully. We'll need BF 3.3 for that...

You just need updated LUA files. github.com/codecae/betaflight-tx-lua-revised

All covered in this series, keep watching...

+Noah Wheeler you'll need a cable that will take the video- out from the camera and put it into a standard FPV transmitter. There are lots of details about how you then plug an FPV video receiver into a computer via some kind of video capture device that will allow you to then have the video in Mission planner. Hope that helps

Please see the Antenna Lab videos for links to the documentation that covers what we can use in the UK..

@@Painless360 okay :) thanks for the reply

this should work just fine. but just as with any low power tx signal, the ground itself will block signal. the diamond antenna is supposed to use the ground to extend range though so that is probably the way to go

+James Nathaniel things are changing very quickly with this technology. CRSF as a bidirectional telemetry connection will allow you to control anything at the far end with the right LUA script and that support is expected in Betaflight in 3.3. If you're having a problem then I'd recommend having a quick look in the forum or raising a ticket with TBS for help. I'll add this to the list of things to talk about in a future video.

+Ruben Hartmann last time I spoke to the TBS guys, they were looking for volunteers to test it. I don't have that radio here so I've not been able to try either. Might be worth a check in the documentation to see what the latest updates are. Best of luck!

+James I answer this in the video.. it’s still bot perfect..

Okay just writing the problem out helped. Finally realized that UART 1 was still set for SBUS!

Glad you got it sorted! :D

Sounds like you’ve installed the wrong LUA script. Check you’re using the one fur your radio. Best of luck!

It should work fine. Keep the antennas separated on the model as much as possible... Best of luck

+Deserthunter Mike you’ll need to check the laws/regulations in your country to be sure..

USA

Please check the playlist ;)

+Jeff Orr UART stands for universal asynchronous receiver transmitter. What that basically means is that allows you are using the transmit and receive pins to send to receive data to something else. Hope that helps

+Elliot_fpv sounds like the reciever isn’t bound. What troubleshooting have you done?

Painless360 I think it is bound because if I then turn off the crossfire tx the green light stops flashing

I'm not sure I understand the question. You want two recievers?

@@Painless360 I want to be able to use all 20 channels that my current radio transmitter supports. I have an iX20SE. What is the maximum amount of channels that crossfire supports and which receivers would you recommend?

I'm not sure. I've not used that many channels on my Crossfire stuff.. Next time I have it out I'll look. Let me know if you test it too..

What troubleshooting have you already done? Channel map etc...

@@Painless360 I figured it out thanks, I'm just an idiot lol. I forgot to select CRSF in my GUI. Thanks for getting back to me though!

+dragon121978 answered later in the series.. Best of luck!

There is a LUA script in the SD card contents for the X10. Make sure the module has power and the external bay is selected in The menus..best of luck!

Got power modules selected and running crsf just can't get the lua to recognize it? Really hope there's a way to do this from the x10/x10s I am really excited to do the changes from the controller rather then the module... thanks for the replie its greatly appreciated+

Turns out you need to turn down the baudrate in the control to run the lua this will slow the crsf way down but is the only "easy" work around the other option is to desloder a chip in the radio and wire in a new one! Here the link JB sent me to that Explains Everything... blog.seidel-philipp.de/fixed-inverter-mod-for-tbs-crossfire-and-frsky-qx7/#Mod_for_FrSKY_Taranis_QX7 I hope this helps you and everyone reading maybe you can do a video on this to help all the new frsky owners like me, thanks for all your videos and help your work is greatly appreciated!!!

+Shazzner I’ll ask the TBS boys. You looking fur a spec?

Yes and if their source code is available, thanks! I'd much rather go with an open source implementation than a proprietary one.

This is all I found so far: github.com/betaflight/betaflight/blob/master/src/main/rx/crsf.c

Leave it with me..

OK, at the moment TBS will share the spec with anyone that asks by raising a ticket on the TBS website. The spec will be fully released generally to the public around spring next year..

I'd always turn on the radio first anyway. I'd update to the latest firmware (v2.4) and see if that changes anything.. Best of luck!

Painless360 Thanks for the answer, I was already in the 2.4 firmware, I just tried to bind it to another RX and the problem disappeared... Really weird, maybe something related to the open TX o the lua script. Thanks!

The FrSky version is very basic in comparison (no CRSF, no LUA script support etc.) but works great for longer range and, due to the reduced feature set, is a lot easier to setup.. If I get a set, I'll make some videos..

Thank you, it would be great to see an honest review/comparison. I have no Crossfire but really like my setup. Also, what would you need LUA script for, FrSKY has R9M settings built in the radio setup page so you can change power settings, telemetry, etc... Obviously no CRSF but has SBUS, Also I see signs that FrSKY will be improving protocols like F.Port/releasing a lower latency PWM as featured on the RX8R Pro receiver.

The person who you got it from should be able to tell you that. R9M is a inferior system compared to Crossfire but for normal flying it's very capable..

@@Painless360 yes thank you, I saw videos earlier today, thanks for the reply

I don't use NAZA here but I'd expect to have to use SBus. Be aware that an update may help as there were specific updates to the Sbus implementations for things like this earlier in the year. Best of luck!

+Ross Whitelock best one is in the QX7 playlist at the start. Best of luck

Great, thanks

I've not tried it in any of the Spektrum radios, sorry..

@@Painless360 no probs. Do you know anything compared to the controllers you have used?

See my kit picks video from last summer for radio choices (I will be doing an update to it in a months time so it is a little out of date), FrSky seem to be making some odd choices when it comes to the inverters they are using in their radios that mean that you can't run the Crossfire system at full speed, despite them knowing about the problem. Some think it's a deliberate attempt to undermine the TBS product and sell their R9M system..

The control of a model is exactly the same with Crossfire as with any other system. I personally prefer the TBS, Immersion TRAMP HV or the HolyBro Atlatl HV smart VTX units that can be configured from the Betaflight OSD..

Max range mainly! Happy flying!

I'm not sure I don't use that radio or flight controller here. Best of luck with the build!

@@Painless360 yeah its a bit bigger then racing drones but even so the parts used should work,like the vtx used in small race drones,,there are those pumping out 1200mw att 5,8ghz.. could i use that in my build ?

You shouldn't need to. The Crossfire scripts have been a standard part of the SD card contents for some time... best of luck

+John Doe don’t be scared, kit follow the manual. Best of luck!

US=915, EU=868 MHz. The antennas are probably tuned to none of these exactly, but somewhere inbetween.

Also, if you have the full size Crossfire Google 'TBS Konami code' ;)

+IPHONE_PRODUCTION's 914 nope, see the last video in the series posted 2 days ago..

I've not tried but with the mod, you can run the Crossfire at full speed..

@@Painless360 More interested in long range, where the speed part of it isn't that important.. thanks for your reply. Love and used your videos all the time.

If you watch the videos in this series and read ardupilot.org/copter/docs/common-tbs-rc.html then you should be OK.. Best of luck with it

@@Painless360 tanks grazie

Range is down to lots of things. The frequency you use is only one of them. There is antenna design, power, protocol, band usage, LORA style management of the link, smart firmware... The difference is that all of those things are far better on the Crossfire system..

@@Painless360 Got it, Thanks..

Tricky to offer any advice as you’ve not told me what connection you selected (sbus, CRSF..) and how you’ve got it connected to the flight controller. If you can give me a little bit more detail, I can probably point you in the right direction...

Painless360 Thank you for getting back! You have an amazing channel:D So I have figured it out... "btw In BF configuration I was using serial based and crsf,... then I had ch1 on crossfire receiver soldered to tx on a flip 32 f4, and ch2 to rx as it should be".. But I had to swap where I soldered tx and rx to the flight controller and that worked! I now can setup modes and adjust endpoints.... SO! I have my sensors found on my taranis qx7 and telemetry setup and able to fly! But I can only fly about 500m out and I get a telemetry lost from the qx7..?? I was expecting to go .5 to 1 mile on this maiden lol...! How much of a difference will it make if I adjust the crossfire tx unit in the qx7 crossfire settings from 25mw to 100mw..? Will that get me a mile?!😅 It ending up getting dark so I wasent able to try it out, we shall see tomorrow morning!!! Edit! Switching to 100mw made a giant difference!

See the next video - you can use the trainer cable..

+Wade Stewart thanks for the idea, with the Vector, Pixhawk 2.1 and other series at the moment it may be a little while..

With the ZYX-M, you should be able to just use SBUS with the Crossfire. While that will eliminate some of the "faster" functions of CRSF protocol, you'll still get the range, but just at 50hz (which is perfectly fine, especially for a slow flying UAV that would be using a Tarot ZYX-M).

Painless360 this is awesome that you may review the Tarot flight controller. I really want to see how the fail safe works with if a motor stops it can still RH or fly just like the DJi A2. I've got a very limited funds for my Rc with my beautiful new little Daughter Penelope. Thanks heaps.

I've never tried. There are video on it on RU-vid. Best of luck.