Another big issue is the cost of living/house. One man cannot provide for a family any more. Or all he does is work to provide for his family. 15 years ago you could buy a house in Oshawa on for $150k to $175k. Those same houses are up to $650k but wages have not kept up. Where is the motivation for young men to forge their way in the world knowing that they can't even afford rent let alone a car or hobby or groceries for a child?
The original people made investments with their hard earned money that payed off huge. That should be motivation to make wiser decisions and make your own investments so they can pay off in the future also.
Same story in Europe. I am from low level middle class family. Studied two times as first education can’t provide me. Second time I went through databases and job adverts before choosing and now I earn multiple medium wages. It is neither that hard, neither that rare.
Literally! I don’t know why we aren’t speaking about this. The inflation is literally destroying, not just the birth rates and family structure, but killing the middle class. The small percentage of young adults who can afford to date and marry are holding off on kids.
I somewhat disagree. People will also change if the reward for changing is worth the pain to them. The problem is, often times, it's not. Our society isn't as meritocratic as it was in the days of yore. Too many people put in the work, and don't get the reward, in spite of putting in the work and believing they will get the reward. Just working hard all by itself, although essential, isn't a cure all, the socioeconomic/political environment needs to change to become a place where that hard work results in the desired outcome most of the time, for most of most of the people who put it in. Part of getting there means admitting that the current environment isn't adequate and making systemic changes to improve that environment.
Apparently our govt feels the pain of following the constitution and wants that pesky bill of rights revoked so they can keep power. The fear of living in the future they want for us needs to be stronger than our fear of death. Those of us with nothing to lose need to start trying to win something dammit.
I used to work on a loading dock, and have been replaced by automation. My loved ones are dead, old work injuries are catching up with me and I'm getting too old to do the only work I'm qualified for. I'm losing my place in the world, worn out and obsolete. Dating isn't high on my priorities.
I'm 36, I have never held a career, I've worked only entry level for minimum wage in spurts of 2-3 years. And I'm a multimillionaire. While you were sleeping, they were printing money. And I was stealing it through this thing called "The Stock Market" You just played the game wrong friend. Should have kept your body in mint condition like we did.
Like Chris Rock says, when a woman first meets a man she tells her girlfriends. The first question the girlfriends ask is, “What does he do..?” Not, what does he look like? Chris is right when he states that, “men are never loved unconditionally, they are only loved for what they can provide.”
@@natashadickson4819 ...and? It's far easier to learn to cook than it is to get a job most women would consider "respectable" (especially since many of those jobs are presently being _handed_ to unqualified _women_ so the company can meet diversity quotas). So...spare us your tears. If you were being asked to cook like a 5-star Chef, then you'd have a point. But you could learn to cook 10 meals that would satisfy 90% of men from videos right here on YT in under *one day* .
@@jeffersonadams8711 And? How hard it is isn’t relevant at all. That’s a condition. The quote was about no conditions, not low conditions. No one is ever loved “unconditionally”, and that’s a good thing. What the particular conditions are, that’s up in the air.
You can be as optimistic as you want, work harder, work smarter and always aim to be the perfect person. The issue is that won’t make a shítty employer appreciate you or promote you or pay you well. Being the perfect person and optimistic won’t stop someone from cheating on you. It won’t make you better looking or taller or smarter. My point is you have to recognize when it’s time to redirect and aim for something/someone else. You’d think this is common sense but I was so “optimistic” before that I believed all I needed to do was improve myself in someway but the reality is I should have redirected a long time ago.
Direction and discernment are the most important things we can develop. However, direction in the beginning is not always that important. It's momentum and redirection that is key. For example, a few years back I was partly motivated to improve myself so that I could stand a better chance of getting back a woman I used to love. Now, I realize that woman is probably not the best thing for me. But I made a ton of progress along the way and was able to redirect my goals, and harness the energy. Anyways, thanks for the thoughtful comment.
Redirected where though? You mean like mgtow? Believe me, I can empathize with what you’re saying, but isn’t it a kind of victim mentality trap? Really though, I just wonder what you mean by redirect? Thanks 🙏
@@mrz305Meaning if you are trying and trying yet the female you want (or maybe are with) doesn’t put in the effort too and it’s all just you…. Time to find someone else. This applies to work as well, where no matter how well you do your job, or go above and beyond, you’ll never be appreciated or paid well. That too, means it’s time to move on and find another job or start your own business. Don’t keep putting in effort where it’s one sided and the other side isn’t treating you well too. The key though is to be honest with yourself and don’t just say you are putting in the effort, if you really aren’t. The edit is to say that the solution is very much an individual’s own choice, so if MGTOW is the right choice for you, then you have to decide that for yourself. I think there is almost always hope to find someone if that’s what you want, you just have to consider all options and maybe even other countries.
Lol, yes this is usually a reality. You really have to make sex and taking care of each other a priority. In hindsight, I would also recommend never stop dressing up for each other. Marriage is work resources are there, you two can reverse it.
In my case it's not that I don't have any interest in relationships, I've just seen enough horror stories to understand that it isn't worth the risk. Watching my brother find out his fiance was cheating on him broke his heart. Then seeing her accuse him of all manner of horrific deeds to then watch him bleed money and sanity for lawyers/court appearances and even spending time in jail over more false allegations that she never was held to account for. Really eye opening because you really don't know how bad it is till you've seen a family member or close friend go through it. I'm checked out at this point, I'll just sit in my house and enjoy the peace and quiet.
I totally understand where your coming from, I have seen the same but in reverse. There are evil messed up people everywhere in both genders, races and ages. I have personally witnessed in my life so many men abuse women in domestic violence, the cheating and secret second or third families, the abandonment of children and how it affected my peers in school, the rejection of children due to their gender (females not wanted) or if male not the son is not good enough and then rejected that it can be their sons even if DNA test were provided. This has kept more than half of all the female peers I know as volcel. That's the dirty secret no ones talking about men and women don't trust each anymore and many are walking a way living alone quiet peaceful lives watching the shit show. Many men just want to believe the lies online instead of investigating what is really really going on, after the good ones, the scared ones, the traumatised and broken voluntarily checked out, what was left was the unhealthy ones (obese, anorexia, infertile etc) no one is attracted to, and the female trickers/players/ users that get a lot of attention online that everyone thinks that is the dating pool when they are a small minority who go after the rich men or just plain riches, not to mention the ones that were never available (married to straight men, and the ever growing women in lgbt+), meaning there is low supply and high demand situation for the men who wants relationships, marriage and children.
The homeless always need man-to-man, individual help without govt. intervention. You still have love to give. Simply point it in the direction of the homeless. Shake their hands. Learn their first names... ... Do you know the first names of any homeless people? ...I do... Christus Vincit Christus Regnant Christus Imperat
Almost 40, been married, dated a bit, prefer being alone. I cannot stand compromise and intimacy isn't worth being stolen from. Plus, I don't like cleaning up after others or... well, really just dealing with people at all anymore.
"When you give men purpose and the ability to achieve it, he will crawl over broken glass with a smile." - Chris Williamson. This conversation has to be one of the most powerful ones I have ever heard!! I literally had goosebumps when Chris mentioned the men that men who were unresponsive for 5-10 years got up and started driving firetrucks and ambulances!
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue. People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her. A lot of guys have never had that. This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that. The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow) Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society. What are we seeing in the west now? Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, anomie and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels. White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes. Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends. White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle. With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be dehumanising and toxic. Peace
The best way to defeat demonization and defamation isn't to fight it. It's to simply provide more and more.. and more and more value until the world has no choice but to see it. Provide value for the sake of value itself and the value we feel in return, because we don't need appreciation, even though we'll have it anyway. Pity and marginalize the man haters.
It's rough out here as a young guy. I just got out of a 3 year relationship, and while I'm not looking (I thought I was going to marry that girl and the rug got ripped out from under me), I can't help but see how dysfunctional the dating pool is. It truly feels hopeless, man. People treat eachother like disposable objects, women's egos are insane, and men are flopping around and doing anything to get a date. Most of the women I've met all think that they are on pedestals because of the constant drip of compliments and gifts from men, and most of the women I've met have close to zero values. Sad fucking world, social media is destroying society
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but its all across the western world. I had something simular,just got out of a 5 year relationship and the dating game is exactly how you have described it,I live in NZ and iam in my late 20s
@@addomans2088 That fucking sucks, I'm sorry to hear that, man. Yeah, my heart aches honestly. It seems like girls just have so many options that even when you have a really close bond with someone, they can just move on because they know they can find another partner really quickly when they decide they want one again. It's only been 2 and a half months since the break up, and I'm still miserable but she seems totally fine. I'm still hitting the gym like always, getting good grades in college, focusing on being my best self, etc., but seeing how women can just move on like nothing happened really shows how replaceable a lot of them find us. I thought having a close and intimate bond for over three years with someone was supposed to mean something and was worth working on instead of just quitting. I can't imagine getting over a 5 year break up, hope you heal soon
@@robotmechanicalwhizkid2521 Truth. Women do always have options and a lot of them seem to just care about relationships in a transactional sort of way. It seems like when a guy is in a rough place a lot of women are quick to leave and find someone else instead of working on things. I'm assuming there has to still be some great women out there, maybe I'm just still hurt so it all seems worse than it is. I hope that's the case.
I spent so many years trying to figure out how to fit in so people would like me, i wasted years not actually being myself. Bullied in school, hard time finding jobs and friends in my 20’s… one day i finally decided to try to start from scratch. Now im 45 and I’m finally having the best time of my life. My advice to my younger self would be, just do your thing and get right into living your life, and dont worry about the friends you dont have right now, because one day you will find the people you connect with. And you will have remained a whole person that whole time, and you will be better for it. Thank you two, this episode was great
I´m 44. Same story only i have chosen to stay in solitude. i live alone in the countryside. I have no real freinds or family, no wife or kids and never really wanted it.. Some men struggle on loneliness. But i thrive on it.
The advice we're giving to young men who are out of relationships sounds to them like what was being told to women in the 50s, which we were all told no one should have to conform to. "Care less about your needs, be agreeable, be funny and stay in shape and don't expect any respect" I think just leaves men saying "fuck that" and amusing themselves in non-destructive ways (because actually they're not all rapists in waiting)
I agree. The advice given to men is the same old fashioned advice that has always been given to women in traditional communities. For women, the narrative changed with the women’s movement. It became, “women need men like a fish needs a bicycle.” It’s a silly saying in a lot of ways, but it did lead to women being more internally motivated to build their own lives independent of men. In the past, women were taught that their value and worth as a woman was based on how desirable they were to men. Everyone assumed women would always be motivated by marriage. This radically changed for women in the 60s and 70s. Men have never had their own movement where they reject the idea that they are always motivated by getting a gf and sex, and instead they are motivated by an internal desire to build something for themselves.
@@brandy4530 lol...the manosphere would disagree, cause apparently men are motivated by sex and desperately hope a women would allow him to abuse her body. Glad women stopped giving sex so easily.
Very true, which highlights the main problem. People are looking towards “society”, our mainstream culture, for their goals or motivating factors. When instead they should have been following the examples set before them of successful lives. Unfortunately we threw out the good with the bad and now we’re all left with a massive pile of shit.
Doormats are not attractive. I’ll take an out of shape confident, smart, deadpan, responsible guy over what you described any day. My fear is having my world turned upside down. No more time for the things I want to do. Having added responsibilities, all give no take. But that’s probably based on my history & what I see in many relationships. I personally know there are exceptions,… they give me some hope. In the meantime, I have a very hard time not imagining the worst scenario. So while I have a dating site profile, I can’t bring myself to respond to anyone. It feels like asking for trouble! 😂💁🏻♀️ It doesn’t help that most profiles are vague. It comes across as lazy and/or desperate - as in “I’m lonely/bored so I’m casting a WIDE net.” And when they ask me a question I answered in my profile… pass! Anyway, just my 2 cents 😊
I'm 22, a guy, and have never really wanted to get in a short-term relationship/have sex. It just doesn't seem like a good use of energy in my phase of life. Once I have a secure life situation, I will probably consider dating, but I am purposefully avoiding it right now.
You cannot plan life. This is the lie. You'll never be in a truly secure position. The only thing you can do is work on building a foundation which mitigates the risk of destabilising your life when a curve ball does come towards you, that can't be avoided.
Im a 75 year-old, highly educated woman who works hard at staying healthy... and so far remain meds and pain -free. These are 2 young men that I follow.
8 years in. Monk mode. Self-determined to live outside of western culture as much as I can manage. I set out to engage with every aspect of my being, my transcendent self that simultaneously exists across time; past present and future me. I endeavor to be as healthy and complete in mind, body and spirit. I have decided to go on my spirit quest, the most ancient rite of passage much later in life, and as it turns out, I don't want to go back. There is nothing for me there.
I’ve always thought serious relationships were overrated. There’s reward there but so much work and headache that goes along with it. I find single life to be where it’s at and I feel it’s a super power to be able to enjoy sitting in a room alone. Most people cannot do that
I am older guy and had no idea. I feel kind of ashamed that I was so clueless having believed young men were merely wining. In my day, at the very tail end of the sexual revolution, sex just was everywhere and believe it or not, even though we were having sex all the time with multiple partners, it didn't seem transactional OR as if we objectified one another as is the case today. I hate the following expressions but I will use them to make my point. Women had sex all the time with many partners and we men thought it was fine, even cool. The women were empowered. Today, many act like whores and I say that in how I read they speak of men as if men were a penis or a wallet or both.This is revolting. The men today appear desperate and pathetic in their attempts to woo women (by no fault of their own.) For women, sex appears to concentrate on four things, penis, wallet, consent, and abortion, meaning of the latter a fixation on sex as an event associated with trauma or the risk of trauma. I feel terribly for the plight of young men having to navigate all of this. In my generation, although the women created the norms, they tended to do a good job of it and lifted us men up in the process.
@@infiniteworfare5089 I do not feel sorry for women when it comes to dating, it is like listening to rich guys whine about how they are struggling with money
no sex in at least 1 year for 18-30 years old people is hilarious as hell to me. Just by being an inc3l virgin for 32 years. Never had a kiss or a hug or first time with a woman on bed. This report just makes me laugh off so hard. You dont have idea about the amount of sexless men out there, for real. Not just about one year without it.
it is not all of that , not missed anything phenomenal, you can get a rush by working out or doing something adventurous. just analyze how testosterone makes you feel.
I see a lot of these RU-vidrs trying to motivate people by saying "I was down and out but I became disciplined and worked hard and now look at how successful I am." The problem with that is that people realize the confirmation bias. That RU-vidr is telling us these inspirational stuff because they happened to be the one who succeeded. We all know that for every one like that there are a million who were just as disciplined and worked as hard but did not make it (be in in YT or whatever area). They just aren't here to tell us about how they didn't succeed because they didn't succeed.
I agree. And more importantly those who become successful often just talk about how hard they worked and leave out the resources they have available to help achieve success; or maybe even they weren’t aware of it.
It’s not just porn and other video activity, its the misandry and hate speech that comes from women, the University and Corporate diversity culture, feminism, the woke culture, me too, the divorce courts and the cost of child support and alimony, and potential jail- its really just over over the top with negative attitude and energy why would any man want to put up with it or subject yourself to all that negativity. The cost is way to much.
My reason for never dating is quite simple. I never wanted to. I've never had a desire to be in a relationship since I was in high school. I just love being alone.
I've seen a family member get put through the ringer. Lost his house, his kids, his business. He lost everything. There's no way I'm dating or getting married these days.
@@gigirigips Yeah because women only act like women on a certain plot of dirt and definitely won't do the same elsewhere given enough weak western men with nest eggs to choose from. 🤦♂
I agree with another post. Get a passport and you will be shocked with how amazing ladies are in other countries. Research Philippines, Moldova, and Belarus. You can live comfortably there on 2k per month, many services are socialized in Europe. Education is cheap or free.
Just what I was thinking. He's gone from simple smart northern lad to a person who is now a greater and more refined intellectual than any guest he has interviewed in that time.
It's also interesting how whenever we discuss men's issues we never seem to get past "self improvement". When women face large scale issues, we look to change society, policy and social views to accomodate women's issues. When men have a large scale issue, we just say "oh you are just lazy... you need to go do X ,Y Z for yourself with no help, assistance, aid, support or societal shifts bevause you have a penis." We never consider that something outside the man could be causing his problems. Instead, we have a cheap default mindset that men with problems are defective machines. That they simply aren't "doing" something. This whole conversation betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of men in general and reals of feminist filtration.
All i see is men blaming women at the moment. It’s all over social media, how much more hate do you want. Women Go under the knife for men. Men cry to go to the gym for self compfort. At the moment men are improving themselves 0% and spend hours on social media agreeing with women haters and pimps.
but it really does come down to self improvement when the issue is that you want sex, you want it easily, you want it NOW, and you can't get it so you start blaming the entire other gender for your own personal celibacy when the issue is _you_ and not the world. Women generally have no interest in just jumping into bed with the nearest man who sees women only as objects to screw, that's _why_ those types of men end up single and celibate. it's their own personal mentality that causes them to be in that situation. Then people like Andrew Tate reinforce their attitudes which only makes the issue worse for them, not better. That's why you also see overweight, ugly, poor men in happy relationships. They have a positive and loving attitude towards women, and seek commitment and open communication etc, and _that's_ what women want. Yet all these sexless men claim women ONLY want money and that's the ONLY reason they won't get into bed with you. It's ridiculous and these specific types of men really do need to fix _themselves_ .. You can't ''fix society'' in a way that would mean random (always beautiful) women have no choice but to give you sex whenever you want, easily and quickly (even though secretly that's almost certainly what most of these men want to happen)
Are you seriously criticizing the women's movement, after an eternity of women being treated like property? The problem with young men today is that we're in the late stages of capitalism and you either have to be a tech genius or a street hustler to make it in business. If you work for an employer, you will be brow-beaten and will learn to be submissive so you can get along and keep your job. That's why our young men are miserable. So, yes, let's help them by improving the economy and working conditions.
So beautiful to hear motherhood spoken about like this. I’ve been a stay at home mum for the last 20 years. I always felt it was my responsibility to care for my children, do the internal work to make sure I was psychologically fit for the task and to keep a functioning home for my family. Over the last 10 years or so it’s been heartbreaking to hear how our society is considering mothers, specifically SAHM’s as apparently we are a lazy drain on society.
It's the human male that's directly responsible for the repolsive behavior and massive devaluing" of the human female- and hes done it in every way, shap and form! ! try to keep that in mind.before u thank them for this "fear mongering" so woman can continue to be blind to what the human male has "truly done to her, and this entire world"- of course many do not want to bring more children in to this world- look who's been running the the show for thousands of years now! And tell the truth, how's that worked out so far???.
@@Nadiaarmstrong95 well, I guess the human male made one enormous mistake when he decided it would be a good idea to devalue, dehumanize, repress and put her in the back seat, when she should have been in the front seat! And (his ass) did this in more ways then we can ever keep score of! It's far too late to make nice with her - this hideously corrupt and repulsivly toxic patriarchal regime, has done FAR TO MUCH DAMAGE, FOR FAR TOO LONG! - its time they pay there "KARMATIC DEBTS"-and so they shall!
Trust me, you’re not a lazy drain! The most hardworking people are mothers. As a mother myself, I found going to work easier than raising a child! I take my hats off to women who stay at home to do this. It can be a long and draining sometimes! It’s not for the faint hearted! And before any guy comes at me and say “it’s so easy!” Bro, attachment styles are different! Women attach differently to their kids than men do to their kids! Not better, just different bc we’re different!
I personally believe in women staying at home supporting their families while men work hard outside to provide. Both roles are equally challenging and essentials. But society has changed and has evolved, and role models have too. I just can’t believe you’re coming here to wine while it’s actually women who call the shots and are taking over the world! We’re talking sexless men, that’s sad. Is there anything you can do to help?
I've been out of relationships for more than a year now and honestly i've lost all interest in it, every day when i finish what i have to do, all i need is to sit down, study and play video games, i never been so happy with this peace.
Then get fired! That's a terrible way to live. Better jobs exist for those who are willing to live in an authentic way. I'm living proof. It takes guts, I guess, but I want to love my life. Not just pretend to.
The kindergarten teachers look men are chased out of those jobs and no one cares. As a male Nurse it can be very tough fitting in and there's an entire spectrum of discrimination that is completely overlooked.😊
One thing I've found is that physical intimacy is something you get over very quickly if you don't have that fundamental attraction down for one another. And being alone (truly and honestly) isn't that bad if the alternative is the company of someone you don't truly resonate with, though you won't really grasp this until you've been there. It's a night and day difference sharing yourself with someone you're in love with, versus someone that you like just well enough and happens to like you. This is why you want to maximize yourself in areas you ideally want to strive in and not pedestalize having a woman next to you before you make headway on yourself. Chances are, if you chase a companion before you do the vital work on yourself, you're going to line up with a partner that doesn't truly ring your bells, and even reflects a lot of the same deficiencies you possess. I'm realizing that the best mate for your is someone you're going to discover on the way to realizing your potential. Because you'll be swinging closer to the type of person that is your ideal when you're being/at your best. Learn to be more addicted and obsessed with those big picture self-improvements than filling your immediate loneliness. This is 20/20 clarity of hindsight speaking. The project of YOU is far more important and rewarding than the project of filling your loneliness, if you can reframe your solitude not as a heavy thing, but as helpful and freeing (for you to move forward). Also, don't let the hypergamy chatter discourage you. I promise you it's not a law that governs the entire opposite sex. What matters is that you're doing what you're passionate about. It doesn't have to be extravagant. If you're self-actualizing in your own way, there will be those attracted to you. These gents have good points, but they do over-emphasize the importance of superficial factors. There is a distinctive aura about a man on his purpose who is full of optimism that more than compensates for those surface "deficiencies". I wish those pill communities knew just how possible it is for them.
@@mickethegoblin7167 Only if you've bought into what social media feeds us. People's insecurities are what generate clicks on these videos that discuss superficial "requirements", and thus more videos get made with titles like this one. We perpetuate this echo chamber until it takes on a life of its own, and then we start taking it as gospel. Yes, you don't want to be rudderless or without resources. But having 8% body fat, high six figures, and a prestigious position often aren't requirements for a good woman who has a well rounded personality that you can develop real feelings for. The types of women seeking those specific things might be nice to look at, but won't have any additional qualities that complement the exterior. Authentic attracts authentic. Pursuing your authenticity is what will attract the best quality mate for you. Pursuing strict superficial goals 7 days a week means it's likely you're not actually being yourself, but just a version of you that society tells you that you "need" to be, just to be competent. The problem is those goalposts will always move and it will never be enough, because approval is fleeting. Whereas being yourself and going after what resonates with who you actually are won't require endless chasing. You actually have the ability to feel adequate and enough right now, but no one actively works on that. Instead they keep running on society's hamster wheel and stress themselves out to no end. I'm telling you that you can get off of it, live on your own terms, and find great success in your dating life. What is underrated constantly as a key factor is how you carry yourself, and learning to not do the things that turn women off. Many men today pursue these checklist items but don't work on the behavioral issues, which holds them back even when they achieve all the "things". Half the battle are things you can fix today, by reducing your pedestalizing of a relationship and becoming more authentic. Guys need to stop getting tricked into believing who they are is inadequate because of surface level traits. That stuff is only a part of it. Behaviour, confidence and authenticity account for most of the battle. If you sincerely believe that, then I don't envy the toll that living by that belief is going to take on you.
@@davidj5425 No, it's a basic need. It's on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It isn't as much a need as food, but it's a need. It's a fundamental drive for pretty much every male in every living species. Food and sex.
100% facts. I am surprised neither of them brought this issue up as this is the key point. You have 100% nailed it. Financial reasons is often cited as a reason for divorce, and then children of divorce (i.e. millennials) then get nervous to marry and have kids after seeing what happen to their parents. This then reduces the marriage and birth rates to all time lows in multiple countries. It is nice to finally find a comment that actually acknowledges the elephant in the room. Thank you.
As a woman who has survived over half a century, you both have hit the bullseye. Keep speaking the truth and there will be hope for the younger men and boys. You are great role models!
Thank you Tom! I’m a 59 year old mom with two sons 31 & 29 years old .. I thinking of forwarding this to them 💪 You are making a difference in so many lives - please keep up the great work 😘
Being a real man isn’t a concept, it’s action. You just have to accomplish goals and do meaningful work. You can’t talk your way into it. Takes time to become that way but anyone can.
@Tim V talked your way into what? You dont make any point because everyone reading this comment can think of one instance where they were able to talk there way to success. It doesn't mean you can do much by talking.
Society has been feminized to the detriment of men. Any man can optimize himself to be the best among other men and fare well in this new cultural environment. But there's a bit of cowardice in doing that alone. If you want to be a real man, fight for the men who need help by fighting against feminism and to fix the culture, bring back monogamy (all men guaranteed partner, otherwise statistically bottom tier men will always lose out to finding any partner even if 100% of men improve themselves hugely). It's simple: if all men became perfect in every way, the bottom 30%, 40%, 50% would still be completely alone while close to 100% of women would have the option of dating while they're young. I hate to be harsh or mean, but being 100% about self improvement and neglecting mens rights is some pu***y fuckboy shit, and I say this as someone who is really competitive and pulled myself out of the gutter, fixed my health, lifestyle, etc. Etc, and continue to self improve.
There’s a lot of factors in life. This conversation doesn’t take into account men who don’t have perfect health or a terrible family life. I was born with a heart condition, I’ve always been overweight. I took care of my dad through cancer/remission, until his death from 16-29. Financially, physically, and emotionally. Although I don’t regret the time spent and wouldn’t take it back. I missed out on so much in life. Women never gave me the time of day so I never dated, never had sex. Years of having online dating and not one date more less a message back. Meeting people at work is vilified. For the most part women just want to be left alone in public. My days are spent on hobbies making money for myself. I was also raised from a Christian background. So sleeping around never even looked appealing. I’ve checked out completely from society and don’t care about pursuing a relationships/kids. Seeing every man in my family divorced played a small part in that. From my experience women only use me for money or favors. I’ve never been seen as an option.
Impossible as an outsider to comment on your situation, but dont give up. Both women and men have unrealistic expectations of one another which creates this gap. If you are the best person you can be that will give you the best chance of finding someone, as well as being rewarding by itself. That's probably something your parents/grandparents would have wanted for you. All the best
We share similar life stories in many regards. Though I've never had to suffer any health conditions like you, in fact I've never had to spend any time at all in hospitals and I'm 40 now, never been overweight, no physical ailments, but I'm far from a 10, I am though like you checked out from society. I feel for you having cared for your father for so long, that's a great thing you did. I saw my mother care for her sister when she had cancer and it was very trying. Her sister chose to not be cared for in a hospital but at home and I was there when she passed away and could support my mom at that time. I have never been on a single date, not even a failed one. Never been with a woman, can't even look or talk to one anymore if it's not to a coworker and the situation calls for it. I don't go out with friends, in fact I don't even have friends. If a coworker has something lined up I always decline. I'm afraid of social activities, of what people think. Of expectations. I just shut myself in, and have been ever since I was 15. I don't even try anymore. I moved out at 25 and have been alone now for fifteen years. I do wish I could change myself and be more open, meet someone and have a good life. Be able to see my parents have grandkids. They probably suffer from not having any. I probably can't read signs from women, looking back there have maybe been four or five times where one has shown interest (maybe) but I've backed away and lost the moment. I feel like I'm still a 16-year old because I've had so few interactions with people in the real world apart from work. I've been all over the western part of the world, probably around ten or twelve different countries, but only traveled alone or with family. I've never used a dating app, never used Facebook or anything else for trying to find love. And starting now would just feel wrong. "You'll never meet anyone just staying inside." is what my sister said probably fifteen years ago. "I wish you'd find someone" is what my mother said more than ten years ago. "Why don't you get a girlfriend?" is what my other sister said probably twenty years ago. I'm just a real loser at life, who's never even attempted life with someone else. There's probably a whole host of reasons why. I'm not happy with my appearance, I always saw my parents fight, and all of their friends fought also, all of the married couples in their social surroundings were fighting, and I didn't want that. I thought that's how it was and it wasn't something I wanted to try for myself. It's getting harder and harder at work to not seem like I'm ready to give up, because every day I feel like it more and more. I avoid conversations and interactions as best as I can, but when I have to I try and act normal. But they can probably tell I'm not well. I've always bottled everything inside. Escaping into the world of RU-vid, movies, music and sports have been my reality since I was a teenager. I don't even know why I should hit the reply button here 🥴 But all the best to you, buddy
@@RIUUI007 when you said “I feel like a 16 year old” I felt that, same here. Yea I grew up in nothing but domestic violence. It’s like now I have the longing for a relationship but also want peace. I had my share of what kids are like helping raise my nieces from when I was 12-21 tell children services took them when they found out my dad was terminal. Unfortunately our stories are very similar. Except I only have a half sister who I disowned and my mom. I’ve had a few instances where I was flirted with but I too focused on my dad to worry about it. Probably my own self esteem getting in the way as well. At the very least men like us can live moderately happy in solitude. I just was scared of being THAT guy who had to pay child support and fight to see his kids and not get to see them grow anyway. Just this morning at church I had people telling me to “find a girlfriend”. Also thanks for letting me know I’m not the only man in the world in this position. It’s a breath of fresh air.
@@Fallensky17 Yes, thanks for sharing, Bob. I've never or rarely wanted to talk about my life until very recently. I also helped raise younger siblings growing up. I was 8 and 9 years older than them and helped raise them until they got independent as teenagers. We also lived in a fairly small apartment and having a girl over was not even something I considered. I have a total of 3 siblings and growing up I felt that our family was all I needed. My family was also quite tight knit, and I've always been afraid of meeting someone and having to meet another family. And having that family meet my own family, the thought about that always gave me anxiety. In all the loneliness and solitude I do try and remind myself that I am a strong-willed survivor. And it sounds like you are, too. I lost a big piece of myself when having to go to 3 funerals in the space of 11 months back in 2017. I've been going on auto-pilot ever since then and always felt numb to everything. Have a great week, Bob thanks for listening 👋
@@RIUUI007 no problem, best of luck to you, same here , I had my last aunt die in early 2017 then my grandmother in late 2017, my dad in October 2021 then my moms uncle a few months ago, who I still have toys he gave me growing up. The only family I have is my mom at this point and I’m jaded by death. That last one was rough, I had to drive my mom 1000 miles within 24 hours down to Tennessee and back to Ohio. Men like us are survivors.
I'm leaving a comment mostly in response to the comments made by both Chris and Tom expressing some concern about how women will perceive some of the things you shared here. I am a woman and I feel grateful for this conversation. I watched this interview exactly when I needed to, during a time when I am introspecting deeply about femininity and masculinity within myself, in past relationships, and in society. Specifically, much of what Chris said seems to align with something I'm learning about through my study of Germanic Healing Knowledge, which is "living biologically". I value your masculine perspectives and I'd love to hear more on this topic. Thank you.
He's probably tried and had zero opportunities. I'm 6ft, 100k, and good looking.... I can easily go six months without so much as getting a girl's number, let alone sex. And I'm trying hard
You are a young man. Find a way; you will never be young again. Five years at your age is too long, even five months is too long. Don't resign yourself to this fate.
Coming of age rituals was a big thing for me. Fell in love with the rituals in Assassins creed. The focus on brotherhood was very special to me. Taking “Leaps of faith” and things like “branding ceremonies” or tattoos was significant to me.
💜💜💜love that you brought up and discussed this topic. My own 19 year old son.told me this very observation about this issue, "there is no interest in real love in the world" ... and you guys describe the same... so insightful, and I wish things could change for the better again ....God bless !
Most men just want sex & sexual variety. They don’t want love. They just claim to want love now because women have given up on love & relationships & have moved on
I have really enjoyed this discussion. I would like to push back on the idea that someone in the burn situation you used as an example will not have a relationship or find a mate. I have seem quite a few situations at that level where people have indeed found someone and have ended up not being lonely. The most recent was a friend who was in terrible shape, with diabetes, both legs amputated, a bad drug-resistant MRSA infection, and other problems. When he was at his worst he met someone online and for the last couple years of his life he was finally not alone and was actually happy. I can give you many more examples which I have all seen first hand. There are a lot of lonely people out there, both men and women, and if as a guy you are genuine and not an asshole it is simply a matter of getting out there and finding that right person. She exists and will get as much joy from being together as you do.
So there is this obvious rift between men and women now, and everyone is trying to figure out what to do about it. The answer that everyone seems to come up with is that men need to rise to the level of women. The answer or solution never falls on the choices or actions of women. Women will always be physically attractive to men, but they have become interpersonally repulsive to the men with the ability to choose. Many of us have realized that the benefits we grew up believing in from partnering with women are a fairytale that isn't at all a representation of what they actually bring to our lives. It isn't just that men are not good enough for women these days, it's also that taking a woman into a man's life now is a net negative for men. In ancient times, men had incentive to evolve themselves to get sex, and women had incentive to carry themselves in such a way that men would want to have them around. Neither seems to be the case now.
Amen on the over coddling. I had a pocket knife when I was 7, and a .22 rifle by 11. I was allowed to go about 2 miles from home( hard to be more accurate cause the boundaries were bases on street names) at 10, and as far as I could go in 4 hours by 13. Left up to my own devices on camping trips, the list goes on. However, I had to earn these boons by maintaining the yard, doing dishes, laundry, and cleaning, staying out of trouble, and checking in regularly. Treating children like injury prone idiots is only gonna stunt their personal growth, and instill them with deep seated fear, cowardice, and indecisiveness. Really damn sad. Oh, and if my little brother came home with so much as a black eye, I had better have been beaten half to death defending him, or I was gonna be.
Let your kids do those things today and child protective services will take them away. It sounds more like the idealistic way rural dwellers see the world. Try living in the middle of a suburb or urban area and see how those things play out. "Mayberry" only exists in places that don't have a McDonald's.
Even if women by and large figured out that men don't care about their income, that wouldn't matter because a woman's income enforces the idea that she deserves a high tier man and can settle for no less. It's a trap that is turning into a black hole the more that academia and corporatism play into feminine views and desires.
@@richcook2007 LOL Sad, but true. Corporations pander to Modern Womxn because it serves the Machine. The current state of the Machine simply wouldn't sustain if it was male oriented. We are surrounded by absurdity because only under that simulacrum can women buy into the Machine and men be confused enough to not fight it. Without the simulacrum, most of the jobs women covet in the first world would simply not exist because there would be no narrative to support them, and too few women would willingly serve corporations in the first place. The sooner women figure out that corporations do not care about them at all, or their "allies", the closer we get to a collapse followed by a reconstruction. Whether we are far from or near that stage yet, I don't really know. Female Millennials and onward haven't yet experienced the kind of economic ruin that more men experienced in 2008, so it's possible that a serious recession will actually wake some of them up. Probably not, but I don't think it's hopeless.
There are quite a few men that feel differently. I recall being a low income earner 15-20 years ago thinking men didn’t care about income and a couple of higher income men told me that I was nice and attractive, but I needed to earn more money (many friends experienced the same. These men didn’t “cut me off” but I certainly didn’t move forward with either. I went on to grow my income by an additional $160k and now remarried to my former husband who didn’t care about my income, many of the men I met while I was single were looking for “leverage” over me and had none in the area of income.
There’s a perfect storm brewing that’s already negatively impacting men AND women. Instant gratification (social media/internet, pron, streaming services, etc.), dating apps, the broken education system, atomization/breakdown of community and families, the mental health crisis, rising inflation, etc. are all contributing to this brewing storm. I think this storm will come in the form of widespread societal decay and many people being miserable. I also think that the instant gratification issue is the main culprit, and we may need to cut that out like we did with cigarettes, or at least attempt to reduce its usage significantly in our society.
@@SamStone1964 Been here. Lowest birth and marriage rates in recorded history. Men and women are more divided than ever and all of this is by design. Everything we are seeing in real time is being put in place on purpose. They want the population down and people distracted and fighting and as we can see it's working really well.
The real storm is the fact that the social security system is based on harnessing the productivity of male energy and distributing it to women to and children, all the while having sufficient replacement rate from the next generation. That's not just conjecture either, 80% of all the socialized welfare type systems are utilized by single parent families (almost all single mothers) and two parent families make triple that of single motherhood families on average. Without proper families the monetary system will begin to implode and with no form of morals/ethics then people will stop trying to salvage whatever is left during the hard times. There's a large number of factors that contribute to it but those will still be the core ones since we are already below replacement level population.
i think that a man has to ask himself a question some time in his life " is sex really worth all the risk and problems you are taking because of it ? " and i answered myself that question long time ago .
How can they ask that question, when the majority have never had any sexual intercourse? It’s like worrying about if having a car is worth the maintenance costs without having a license, folk.
@@drillingig2368 Women know it's NOT worth the RISK of out-of-wedlock pregnancy, nor the premarital loss of virginity for which men LOVE to shame women.
@@drillingig2368 it's like after the 600th rejection is it worth anymore? Most say not you got porn and anime girls so f it same boat as them at 21 I will just live life for me.
Remember the story of Norah Vincent - a female Autor who lived 18 months as a man and this experience caused her PTSD and depression so significant, she ended her own life 😢😢😢
This is not true and keeps getting repeated within the manosphere. Nora Vincent did get depressed after her experiment because of the stress she underwent in trying to play a man as a lesbian woman. But the woman already was bipolar and went through bouts of depression prior to her experiment as well. Also, she did this experiment nearly 30 years ago. She didn't go to a suicide facility in Switzerland because "she couldn't handle life as a man for 18 months nearly 30 years ago" She did it cause she was dealing with medical depression for most of her life and she decided to end her life on her terms.
@@sandrashane677She was living so that the outward world viewed and treated her as a man. She was lesbian too. Maybe it was easier for her. She was surprised how difficult it was for a man. Her own words.
Of all podcasts on this channel, this one really had me on the edge of my seat, literally wishing I was in the room with you two asking questions every 5 minutes. :)
I’m 26 and needed to hear this today. Moments of this conversation felt like high-voltage wake up calls to get my act together. I’m taking step one today to get the aimless track. Thank you
This is such a great conversation that I happened to stumble across thanks to youtube suggestions. I'm 30mins in and I'm loving how open and pure the conversation is, whilst being brutally honest at the same time. This is definitely something that we as a society should be looking at and discussing more.
Very interesting. What I just don't understand is that Chris keeps saying that women want men that they find attractive and men want women who find them attractive. Really???? How come a man is not expected to be attracted to the women who like them? I really wish someone would address the elephant in the room, because it's worth addressing. What if men were not doing the effort because women are not attractive enough in the first place? (and we're not talking about their filtered profile pics, but in real life, as a presence)
@@florianb3935This is why I’m not having sex at all. I live in northern part of Sweden and I am 23 years old. Attractive women here are very rare, most of them are bossy and masculine….
We have too many emotionally immature people now. Adults are jealous of others and having people to look up to is getting harder. Our sense of community is being ruined. This is the main thing. Rituals are really not going to take its place to me. Rituals make a memory of your culture, which would be community...that is what is lacking now...our sense of community. It's going too global now. We are reaching for more global things to be in community with...our basic community in our neighborhoods are dying. It's so sad...this is why people are turn to apps to date.
When women are given their sexual freedom harams form. The legal system rewards women for destroying families. , Men are starting to figure out the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
I'm 50 all but a few weeks. Haven't had sex, or a date or had any interest from women whatsoever since I broke up with my now ex-wife 4 years ago after 18 years spent with her. I keep looking for a UV style tattoo that only women can see that she snuck onto me at some point that just says AVOID THIS MAN right across my forehead. I was 28 when I got with her and 46 when we split. i don't like this new world. There's no place and indeed nobody for me in it anymore. I don't even have kids. The loneliness I feel is so deep and upsetting that I have become a complete hermit, convinced that the best place for me is locked away inside my house and as far away from everybody else as possible. It's very damaging.
Oh man, that's a said story but a very understandable one. I feel for ya all the same.. Don't let fear or sadness the stand in your way. You never know what's around the corner..
It’s worse for young men they don’t have any Feminine women to date and most young men are involuntary virgins due to unrealistic standards of young women.
I am also nearly 50. Loveless marriage, but I do have 2 kids. If I were in your situation, I would make myself into someone worthy of love and then find a foreign bride. There is a toxic femininity brewing in the states. It is ruining everyone, but it doesn’t have to ruin you. You are probably at your peak earning potential. If your tool still works, you need to make a baby and have all that joy. There is a woman out there that wants that with you.
there are so many guys who feel like you so clearly you do have a place in this world we just need to group up and take our rightful place. its coming guys be ready
conquering yourself, getting in touch with your soul, finding your path, then teach your partner to do the same (on her own path) and help her when needed.
@@lrm52283 i didn't say that at all. Both need to be in touch with their soul, if not, its a recipe for disaster. both need to be growing and recognize both are on their own paths as well at different stages of that growth, but should be respected no matter where they are at in that growth. If one or neither isn't working on their soul and attempting to raise their consciousness, then most likely those two don't belong together at all. e.g. money, looks and titles are all temporary. The easiest approach to finding true love is to write down everything you wish to see in a partner and be..... that.
Fifty percent may be sexless, but they are not "crime-less," armed to the teeth conspiring to do someone harm and consuming plenty of illicit chemical substances as well as anti-social ideas. Is there a correlation between being sexless and being self-destructive?
Chris, when mentioning the sexless problem, you often focus on the successful women having a smaller and smaller pool of men to choose from. But you seem to ignore the impact of obesity on the number of women that men find attractive. If I go on Tinder I'll find maybe 20% max of girls that I would swipe right to. That's because slightly chubby is now the norm. This is another factor into why men aren't pursuing sex, because it could feel like the women you are actually attracted to are fairly rare, and they are being competed for like crazy. Both men and women are finding a smaller pool that they are actually attracted to.
@@redrocks1983 Hormones don't contain calories. People are fat because they're eating hyperstimulating and low satiety foods that cause them to overeat in calories. "Hormones in food" is just pseudoscience.
Having been deployed to nearly every conflict & war from 1986-2004: putting my life on the line for a gender, society, culture, country that doesn't give a shit about me / men. I am quite happy to step out, step away and not participate, support, protect not invest in the clown world that has become the norm. My money, energy, attention & time are off the table. Sod it off. I will not comply, I will not submit, I will not play the game anymore.
Get fit, get smart, get rich, travel - never settle down. Marriage is not a 'WIN' for men. Not with a 50%+ divorce rate, where women file for it 80-90% of the time; and the vast majority of men lose their house, income, assets, investments, retirement, reputation always under the threat of alimony, child support (for maybe not even your kid), spousal support. meh. Just not worth it.
Blue Pill - Follow Traditional Society mantras / Disney idioms - Go to school, get good grades, get a good job, buy a house, get married, have kids (and get divorced) Red Pill - wake the f up - women are dangerous to your assets, money, sanity, freedom - they will run through you for whim and clout. (and you get divorced) Black Pill - Society hates men, Society hates masculinity - you can do nothing to change the collapse of society, it is best to celebrate it - let it all burn. (watch the rest of them get divorced)
I work hard to provide for my family and thought it was something innate. But after Tom's comments, I see that my wife's appreciation and support a way that makes me feel powerful makes me want to run through a wall everyday for her.
The problem is, even though my job can be interesting (software for a certain government agency), there is a sense of something missing because most high wage earners are now in front of computers. I volunteer at a local farm twice a week and hike constantly to achieve some balance. But we can’t get that traditional “provider” feeling back - because it was rooted in physicality. It was fine when I had my two daughters at home; since I saw how it made their live’s possible (they turned out great). But, since they left, the “imposter” syndrome is back despite making a comfortable living. It causes bad anxiety at times. Can’t snap out of it. Been alone for over a year. Thank goodness for my guitar 😊. Gigs are fun. But not happy overall.
This was a really amazing conversation. You both expressed many of the same feelings and understandings I've been having around the problems facing both men and women. Also, I have totally used Anime for good role models in the past.
Dating is mostly looks based. If you're really short and ugly nothing else matters, you won't date. If you are at least average then other things like charisma and confidence matter. If you are tall and really handsome then nothing else matters, you will date loads.
@@Alexandratheberge There are no solutions. If you're short and ugly, there's nothing you can do. If you're Tall and handsome there's nothing you need to do. If you're average height and looks, then maximise those looks, develop as much confidence and social skills as you can, and date if/when possible.
this podcast was mostly about professional achievments not looks.But we got it women are outperforming men academically and professionaly and women date up then what? They say stuff like giving value to motherhood and being more ambitious but thats not practical. Also about looks are you speaking of personal experience?
@@Alexandratheberge Professional achievements are irrelevant compared to looks. Ugly Professional men get less women than attractive underachievers. Though, if you want a woman who is a high achiever you need both f5ir anything more than a hook up. Based on personal experience, the expereinces of hundreds I've spoken to, and research data and findings. The only real solution to the dating crisis and the motherhood crisisI can think of are sexbots and artifical wombs.
WOW, I'm digging your conversation! Absolutely brilliant. As a sprog, I was on a mission from God to grow up at warp speed and get the eff away from my strict parents. I was about 11 both when I got my period and fell insanely in love with the Rolling Stones. So naïve - I hadn't a clue why the folks were in such a tizzy about where I was going, with whom and what time I was expected home. Jesus! How they lived through having me as a child is anyone's guess. I'm 70 now and have lived one of the most interesting lives anyone could hope for. And you mentioned the rag of all rags, Cosmopolitan. Girls like me in the 60s and 70s took Helen Gurley Brown's word as gospel. Guys were reading Penthouse and Playboy, with Hugh Heffner as some kind of role model. And we all thought we were "free." Yah, right. The two of those hustlers and thousands of others like them got filthy stinking rich peddling their BS to millions of us pinheads back in the day of the "Sexual Revolution." We couldn't wait to gobble up the next issue and take the Cosmo Girl Quiz. It was a revolution alright. War. People suffered and died and were taken captive. Glad to be old and out of the fray and so interesting to hear what y'all have to say about what's going on these days. Tough times. And I agree completely with getting young dudes to be kindergarten teachers! I had not a single male teacher till 7th grade. WAY too long a dry spell. I think it's imbalanced and not healthy. So, thank you for this video.
This is so interesting to me as a woman. I appreciate the pains you both went to in this episode to qualify your comments -not offend- just wanted to reach out and let you know I appreciate your content.
As much as I see you here, Rochelle, and appreciate your empathy ; you must understand that every man today has a massive frustration over life and a massive need to lash out, to hit back at women, to vent out their anger and frustration : to "offend", as you say.
@@EightFrancs start fighting for women in domestic violence situations, misogyny, demeaning of motherhood, and men in wigs/dresses trying to replace women. Then we can talk.
I grew up with a strong and good example of how an ideal man should be through my Dad. He showed me how a man should treat women by how he treated my mom and myself. Both my parents are very ambitious and hard working people with some traditional views. Before I married my husband, I had boyfriends who called me high maintenance when I was just asking for basic competency and respect. Things I saw my father do, so I didn't settle for them and it didn't last long. My dad taught me that saying, "why buy the cow, if the milk is free." As a teen, I hated that saying, but I do see some truth to it. My husband hooked me through his confidence and humor. We have similar interests, beliefs, and lifestyles. When I saw characteristics of both my mom and dad in him, I knew he was the one. Our marriage isn't perfect and it takes a lot of work, but I'm grateful for the good example my dad has given me. I think it would have been really hard finding a good partner if I didn't him in my life.
This was legitimately the best podcast I have seen in a while. Very articulate and concise points while touching on broad topics at the same time. I've realized a FEW things that I need to work on based on this... Cheers everyone.
Chris Williamson is imho very accomplished. I recommend his podcast Modern Wisdom :) And a message to everybody from me as millenial: dating is not that difficult, you will manage. Good luck, folks!
My mind was blown by this interview. It is just such a well-articulated and on-point dissection of the modern struggles that men have. Bravo gentlemen!
As an older guy out of the dating pool I found this difficult to watch. It actually hurt me to hear how life for young men has devolved since I was young. It's as if young men have no place anymore and the sexes compete rather than compliment one another which they used to. So troubling. Be well Blake.
@@hollyjolli Seems to be in touch with what I am reading Holly, however, I am glad to be corrected if someone wishes to explain. Something is apparently very wrong based on the accounts and comments I am reading written by what appear to be very thoughtful down-to-earth young men.
Completely agree with having more male kindergarden teachers. I was lucky enough to have a really good one while growing up without a father and I'm certain it saved me all sorts of daddy issues.
What kind of men do you think kindergartens attract?? Pedophiles! Pedophiles would love to have access to vulnerable children. You know who are the main tutors in Church? Priests. You know how many children have been abused by Priests? Many! You know why? They has access to children
Hold the line, men. Go your own way. Don't let them trick you to letting your guard down. They WILL suck you dry of your resource if you show a single inch of vulnerability.
Yeah let’s just cut to the chase. Women don’t understand, don’t emphasize, and quite frankly don’t care. There is no way around this harsh truth. So let’s go ahead and confront the elephant in the room, they cannot be bargained with. Sexual freedom created this mess and will not be stopped once it’s out of the bag. The reality of the situation is that we don’t care about a woman’s achievements and we care a lot about how many men she’s been with. There’s no going around this so no we probably will have to go back to how things were and things will get a lot worse before it gets better. God be with us because we are going to need it.
Honestly sex is very easy these days because the average date is transactional. What moral men are looking for is a life partner with traditional values. The average dating apps are where most transactional hookups happen. It's the men with moral character that are mainly sexless because many of them don't want to lower their standards playing in the streets. Besides there's too many variables that can harm their future e.g. pregnancies, diseases, bad reputation etc. The solution for moral men that struggle with finding a moral woman is, work on becoming the best in your career, invest your money, remain razor focused on keeping your good standards, and aim for higher heights. Last but not least when you have your life together travel the world and see new things, you just might find what you want elsewhere. That's my take, much success moral men.
Well said, you are 100% correct. And when men focus on their purpose and career, women come naturally to you, as they should. Hell, when I self-actualized, I didn't even want 90% of women, only those who actually made me happier. Don't ever think just because you get into a relationship with a girl, all of the sudden you become happy. More often than not, there are bad relationships, not good ones. So do yourself a favor and never invest your time, energy, and money in whoever. Make sure you find the right one first.
I agree with how a moral man can attract women, i disagree that most sexless men are simply moral The correlations in statistics seem to suggest it's lack of ambition and drive. Less men working and looking for work, more escapeism (video games and porn), staying attached to parents and living at home... none of these traits are moral or admirable
@Lynne again The problem is, why shouldn't a man just sit at home and play video games? Men are not respected in society and are constantly told by women and society that they are not needed and are shit on in all media. Why should a man struggle all his life to marry some feminist harpy who only worships herself, cheats on you, and then takes half your shit in divorce and often uses the children as a weapon against you. We do not give men a reason to care, and a lot of them have become so hopeless that they want society to collapse and die. They are happy to let it rot.
Wow ! Great episode 🎉 teasing our big and important societal problems (like masculinity crisis, women's problems with an unfulfilling sex life because of disconnected/unemotional sex), looking into them from different angles 😍 Love the way this discussion flows 😊
And men and boys rights in general. Protecting the negative rights of men and boys like we do for women and girls would solve all the worst problems of gender relations today; rights like sexual integrity, reproductive choice (regarding pregnancy entrapment), paternity rights, and property rights. But these two idiots are instead opting with "wHeRe ArE aLl ThE rEaL mEn!"
Something I think is often overlooked and not talked about is the motivation you get from being the first or feeling like you are contributing something new to the world. During the beginning of the information age you had a gold rush effect of everyone building or creating the first X, Y, Z... But overtime it becomes more challenging to find ways of contributing that are truly unique. So even though information is abundant and everything easier than it was in the past, you don't get that satisfaction of being the first and figuring it out.
Men continue to build our roads and houses. Now I know that you and I wouldn't be the first one to come up with the idea for roads or houses, but the importance in providing that work to society... I am astonished seeing the capabilities of a man and his tools.
99.999% of men never brought anything first to a market. The difference between me and all the old men I've met in my life is that they were concerned with their reputation as a man. Their work had to be great so people wouldn't judge them. Basically their work was their identity. They got their pride from doing a good job.
Over two years since I last got any action (coming-up on 29 months at the end of this month). As I don't want to repeat the mistakes I've made in my previous relationships & am keeping myself to myself while I'm working to improve myself I've not been actively trying to get any in all that time, but I'm not deluding myself that's the only reason why I haven't.
Dating is such cringe from what I have experienced. I quit dating but was fortunate to naturally fall in love with my best friend. The whole "persistance" thing of going after a woman is NOT something I would do. I just aimed to be the best I could be for myself, which attracted my best friend.
This is what I think most people who "persist" in dating want. But unfortunately, it doesn't "just happen" for a lot of people. Not having to try or just working on yourself is a luxury many women can't afford, at least women who want kids, due to more time-limited fertility windows. Not to mention, women know their attractiveness window closely correlated with their fertile years. You two are very lucky to have each other.
@@jessmessing3146sadistic self-called "feminists" would say "FINALLY you have to start working on yourself!" if a man made such a complaint. It used to "just happen", but standards were lower for both men and women.
@@florianb3935 Not sure what you mean, we all have to work on ourselves if we want to be a good future partner to someone. I think you're trying to make an argument about hypergamy. So what do you want then, women who are not choosy? Do you think that will be good for the human gene pool in the long term, if women start partnering with men who aren't a good genetic match with them, whom they can't have a productive partnership with, who produce offspring who are less able to thrive? Do you think those kind of decisions scale well? And I'm not sure when it used to "just happen" for men and women. And while we're at it, where? There are some countries that still have arranged marriages. Is that what you mean?
@@jessmessing3146No that's not what I mean. But honestly I think women had much less to "work on themselves" in the past. I don't think men were caring too much about her mental health or historical issues. It was even accepted and joked upon, that women would generally have losing mindsets and be overly emotional. I might be wrong though. There could be many reasons why we just didn't talk about it, like the fact that 70 years ago you were either a retard or normal, and pressure was immense. Seems likely that it was the case for men too, their mental health didn't seem to matter so much as long as they were "successful". Now I was just noting how feminists seem to rejoice that men "finally have to work on themselves", but they'd hate it if we told them the same thing. And in reality women also have to work on themselves. Attractive men nowadays seem waaaay pickier. Men also seem to have a lot of this pettiness like angry feminists had ("if I'm working and I'm getting my shit together, my man should be at least as good" 👈 In my opinion this is really toxic; if you are well off, why is it automatically that you need someone even better? Why wouldn't it be that being well off allows you to give to someone who's a great person, but just a lot less lucky or less "hard-working" than you? Do you even know how great it feels to give your gift to someone else? It's a unique joy in and of itself. Why do we need to keep accounts of how much one or another does?) And since you talk hypergamy, I don't think it's very healthy overall. I don't think that the status is a good way to judge people, that you can really compare people like that. Usually people mate by status because they have similar values, history and acquaintances. We also feel a certain attraction to someone higher status, but it's mostly a short-lived lust. It can enable a lot of toxic behaviors for our own development (ex. codependency), though it feels great. It's just temporary though. I think we should differentiate "a natural propensity from women to be hypergamous" (like a natural propensity for men to only look at the hip-waist ratio and bang everyone without care for consequences) with the behavior itself. It's not a truth, and it's something that we can control consciously, provided you understand the benefits.
What is happening to our elderly is horrifying, not only because I am heading for it, but because of the huge wave of young people my son's age who are struggling to connect.
@@suzygirl1843 you would be correct if when you said natural selection you meant both men and women of the West going extinct. but if this meant Western men are failing to natural selection your correct... but western women are also failing at this selection process in higher quantities since Western Men are not getting with Western women but they are getting with foreign women but on the inverse Western women make no attempt at getting foreign men. Single men are on a steady incline in the West this is undeniable and based off historical averages of 40% of men reproducing with 85% of women its getting pretty bad. But what is 100% unprecedented is having 50% of women without child going into there 40s... that is a 90 degree angle in terms of charted change. Men failing at reproduction is a "sad" story, women failing at reproduction is a civilization ending catastrophe because there window is so much shorter 16-42 and anything over 36 is high risk.
@@jasonu3741 Yeah, jeep telling yourself that buddy. Western MEN are failing. I am foreign and we are wise to the Passport Bros scam. Losers who couldn't get with their own women but find us as a cheaper alternative
Hopefully we stop funding these parasitic baby boomers retirements, health care and pensions that they expect to enslave us and work our hands to the bone to pay for. They never saved any money then want a smaller group of people to pay for their retirements. They are true parasites, and I look forward to the day when we are all on crypto so they cant steal from us via taxes.
Second generation single mother here, feeling the sting of so much of this, including in my 27 year old son who has never had a girlfriend. I felt and still feel completely devalued for being a mother, and a woman in general. I see and live the crisis you are talking about, and appreciate this conversation very much.
Moms tend to teach how to be nice and polite however this isn't what attracts women generally. 👌 Women want a man who does what he wants and don't give a damn what others think. However he is a God fearing man and knows right from wrong and acts accordingly. He also respects his mother.
I hope your son is not picking up on your way of thinking because those beliefs will make him weak and manless and will effect his ability to find a female partner.
Just being honest instead of politically correct (another name for deception) is a little rare today. The price of avoiding controversy and group think so prevalent in recent yrs.
Many times it’s easier (less scary) to exist in our cozy prisons than to make changes. Growth will not happen without enough pain. You will not make those changes until you see what the possible future could be if you stayed in the same place. To live an intentional life requires work and those who are not ready will not move. Or at least until the universe makes the decision for them.
The world has changed for all involved. If you make a move thinking you need to get into a relationship because you "need to make a change," you could be jumping into a more toxic hell than the "cozy prison" you are in.
@@rockymntain true. But the key is to work on oneself. The more we work on ourselves, the better we become in relationships. And it may be some time away from relationships to figure that out.
@@rockymntain Yep. You could end up back in your cozy prison, only with more trauma and a lot less money. These platitudes and hallmark card answers to extremely nuanced questions do nothing.
Young people are always trying to solve their insecurities with sex. Perhaps they should consider that abstinence arrives first alphabetically as it relates to sex.
Loved this chat, men and woman both need to hear this. One thing that left me confused was if woman have lowered the bar and having casual sex more often, why are so many men having less and less sex. Is it not easier now than ever?
I remember when my boy was a baby, in our “mums n bubs” group, the 3 girls would sit quietly listening to us mothers chatting, and the 2 boys would have to get out of their high chairs and crawl around. Such and interesting conversation about an important issue in society.
This reminds me of a day I was sitting in the car and watching my brother leave out the house with his three children ( my nephew and nieces). His son was 8 at the time and the daughters were ages 3 and 5. My nephew came out the door all energetic and jumped off the porch then turned around and had each of his sisters to jump into his arms for him to catch them (one at a time), and they did it. I said awwww. They trust their big brother ❤❤❤ Then they proceeded to walk to the car while he leaped, hopped, and skipped his way to the car lol... Was it his age??? Was it what he just ate??? Was it excitement about where they were going??? Was he reenacting something he just finished watching on television??? Was he practicing his basketball drills??? Or was it because that's what boys do??? The five-year-old niece is now 7 and she was very wiggly full of energy flipping off of furniture to the point we had to keep telling her to SIT DOWN, CHILL OUT so much so that we put her in gymnastics and she loves it and because we put her in it, we had to put the 3 year-old (who's now 5) in it, but after trying it, she said she was scared she only like the dancing part so we put her in dance class and she loves it. In this case I think it's what's in the DNA. My family is full of athletes cheerleaders and dancers.
Absolutely. At playgrounds you find the girls having collaborative play and then the boys running as fast as they can and jumping from the highest structure they can climb😂
What a beautiful and "powerful" conversation. Thank you both so much for your honesty and so much time and interest in such a difficult dilemma we all face at this time of great change.
This is all happening because women are asking for too much. If you have lots of money you can date, but you still have to allow them to act like they are single when they want or the relationship crumbles and you get called insecure. If you don't have money, you can date, but you have to date single moms, or overweight women... This is such a raw deal, a lot of us are just leaving them alone all together, or just smashing and ghosting whenever convenient. This is the hard truth of the situation.
@johnsampson6387 In a way of looking at it, yes I suppose that's an accurate statement. However, we haven't seen things, "crumble", exactly yet have we? Conservative values and behaviors are definitely crumbling, especially for women. Women always have had freedom... Feminism on the other hand ramped up in the 2000-2010s with the academic feminists beginning to graduate highschools and colleges and taking up influencer roles using social media for a soapbox. Now we are beginning to see the ill effects of the situation and the depth to which those changes in social norms affect us all. The influence of modern feminists needs to be challenged. They have too much control over youth culture today. If nothing is done, then yes... We could see a "crumbling" of sorts.
You will be fine Jon. Most of us have been there and go on to have more than a fair share of love, romance, and all the rest to the point of it becoming routine at times.
Thank you for this informative talk. I wish this was a subject in schools. I live in South Africa and the living conditions here are what I call "character building"; having a child with everything else going on would be less than ideal and I can't afford to be a stay-at-home mom, independence is key to my survival as a woman in SA. For me, It's all about timing and the right circumstances. Sadly, most of my friends (men and women) have this stance toward having kids, which makes this discussion more real than ever.
We need a long conversation between Chris, Louise Perry, Waren Ferrel, Jordan Peterson and mybe few other people about gender dynamics and relationships in modern world. Please, make it happen🙏
I’m a 70 yo SGM. I am very masculine but I’ve never been attracted to women. I would love to be a father but it’s too late now. Except for one year of my life I have never felt capable of providing for a family. My pursuit of manhood took me to being in a motorcycle club, playing soccer beginning at age 33, and training to box at 50. I finally feel confident in my masculinity but now I’m too old to start anything. This is a very interesting conversation
