10 Doctor Who "Plot Holes" That Really Aren't 

why? didnt watch that bit but i'm just curious why the doctor was unable to rescue them

timey wimey@@turquoise7817

@@turquoise7817 cuz 1938 was already disturbed by the time energy from the angels + they created a paradox that wiped them off from that year and practically time locking it

@@mastcharub7177what if they landed at New York on December 31st 1937? And just waited a few days?

@@alangreig4261 yeah thats one of things that always bugs me... i believe that maybe all the adjacent years are locked too or maybe all New York before 2013 is inaccessible, who knows? Still a pretty mediocre ending for the ponds

I was only half paying attention but I thought the list mentioned O and Missy, not YANA being a plot hole? Because 9 seems to think he'd know if there were any others... but I don't believe that was supposed to be a "6th sense" thing but more of a knowledge thing. He thought they all died in the Time War. He later learned The Master escaped and used a Fob. So he didn't SENSE Missy or O because it was never a sense thing. Not plot holes here.

I can see why some __might__ call it a plot hole, in the sense that there's a contradiction. We were told that the Doctor would know, and then we saw that he didn't know But I agree with you: it's not a plothole for a character to be wrong about something. And a contradiction is only a plothole if it's introduced without any explanation. In this case, the explanation was set up well ahead of time, like you say

​@@Paradox-es3blYeah, I always assumed that Nine's "I'd know" line was less about Time Lords being able to sense each other, and more that in the time between War Doctor becoming Nine and 'Rose' no Time Lords had hunted him down. And he probably thought that if there were any survivors, then they would have been coming after him to exact revenge on the one who destroyed the rest of their race.

You know what bugs me in the 2nd episode of season 6 they basically conditioned all the humans who watch that footage to kill them so I wonder has Amy never watched that footage because she certainly did not try to kill the silence in the bathroom or on the cliff also how would the papal mainframe have the silence like isn't there at least one person who looks back and sees the moon landing wouldn't they try to kill them?

@@Paradox-es3bl In the episode 'Dalek' he says they're all gone, "I'd know, in here" and points to his head. Definitely a 6th sense

Could that be the reason the chameleon circuit is 'broken'?

I don't think so, because I believe River says something like, "We both know how to fix that Chameleon Circuit. You just never do it." So clearly the Circuit is ACTUALLY broken, but mainly because The Doctor doesn't try to fix it. It's almost like a remote without batteries/with dead batteries... if you care, you could swap in new ones and boom. But if you don't care, why bother?

​@@Paradox-es3blyou've explained that it really is broken, and why it stays broken. But that still leaves open the question of how and why it broke in the first place I'm the sure TARDIS is perfectly capable of causing a genuine malfunction in its own chameleon circuit if it wants to

@@douglaswolfen7820 Same. The Tardis sentient too. :D So that wouldn't be surprising.

Just bad writing actually

He also said the Angel is full of forests in one version of that scene

Amy had also counted down from ten to three over the span of several minutes, so she still had some countdown left, so I think when the doctor says that he's being dramatic.

Yeah. I am pretty sure 9 was just talking shit when he said that he’d know if any were left. Or maybe it was because he searched and found no one? Either way.

I always assumed that his mind "knowing" the master was gone blocked out his timelord radar. I usually miss obvious things in front of me, simply because I don't consider them likely enough to think about, why should it be different for the doctor?

Also in The Five Doctors, the 3rd Doctor didn't immediately recognize the future Master until he concentrated on it a bit, but he didn't need to be told.

@@v3ru586 I'd like to think that that's exactly the sort of thing he Doctor is quite good at not doing. He's the person who always asks the insightful questions, who's always looking for the inconsistencies ("where does she get the eggs?") If he had a blindspot for anything though, it'd be the Timelords and the Time War

​@@krawlspaceHe would know because because there will be no point in hiding

It's possible, as they mention the dialogue of River being like, "At least she didn't send me back in time." And 11 being like, "So probably was too weak to do so." But it's also possible that a time-traveler takes way more energy for some reason. Maybe the Angels can choose, for the most part. Honestly, there are some venomous creatures that I'm pretty sure can bite you but choose not to inject you with their venom, so it'd be pretty weird if the Angels COULDN'T CHOOSE to use their power or not.

Well, they're not robots, they just want to "eat" people's future, they won't send them back if they don't want to.

Well, it takes a certain amount of energy to send someone back in time, but the amount of time energy they can feed from it is more than it takes to send the person, giving the Weeping Angel a net profit. It's like how if you subtract 3 and add 5, you get a net profit of +2. But if you start out at 1, you can't subtract 3 without going into negatives (dying) so you have to do something else to get your energy up to 4 before you can start the cycle again. So the Angels from The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone needed to feed off the energy from the Byzantium before they would be strong enough to send someone back in time.

Yep. And additionally, just because Weeping Angels typically send people to the past, doesn't mean that they are incapable of touching people without sending them to the past. Like, if you hand me a Zagnut bar, I will probably eat it; but that is a choice, and I can opt to not eat it.

@@Paradox-es3bl well yeah a lot of snakes dont inject you with venom, they do a thing called a dry bite, which is literally just a bite with the added bacteria they have in their mouth, just to scare you into backing off and panic run in the other direction, so they dont have to waste venom on a confrontation that the snake is pretty sure wont lead to its death

I'll have to rewatch sometime, I suppose, when I actually can, but I keep seeing people suggest that since it was the Master who revealed this, it could have been at least partly a lie - and that it would make plenty of sense for that to have been the origin of the Master and the Master simply lying about it to the Doctor because he has a bit of a sadist/lashing out streak especially in recent depictions. I have confidence they can finagle it to be less awkward one way or the other but I do like the idea of that particular twist - and it would fit with the callous way the Time Lords in charge have used the Master previously, such as in the "Sound of Drums" arc. And it would feel perfectly in character that the Master would be both angry about that discovery, and also take it out on the bigwigs AND the Doctor by lying to the Doctor about who exactly the Timeless Child actually was. After all, the Master has at times lied just for sadistic funsies, let alone taking out his or her anger on the Doctor or others, and I could even see the internal character "logic" of inflicting the pain of that discovery on the former friend turned rebellious hero/occasional golden child of Gallifrey as it were - since, yes, much of the Master's suffering is due to the Master's own actions reaping what he or she sowed, but some of it also has been sheer bad luck or even their own society making cruel, deliberate choices to use the Master and discard him as soon as he's no longer useful to them. (See: the way the John Simms Master was distlregarded the hot second Gallifrey got loose from the time lock... and they no longer "needed" him). The Doctor has at times been used as well, but definitely tends to be treated, and act, more like a hero in comparison and imagine the jealousy there... At this point, the Master is an interesting parallel in some ways to the Doctor: centuries of personal screw-ups and externally inflicted trauma making for an ancient being who has enough baggage to fill multiple train cars and thus is quite emotional and quite capable of being viscious as a result of all that experienced misery... the difference I see, being that the Master tends to react to all that by being arrogantly self centered, greedy and ambitious as a perhaps partly defensive thing, and cruel in the way he or she lashes out or treats others. The Doctor, in contrast, tries overall VERY hard to keep his or her empathy intact despite all that trauma and regrets, and generally takes the approach of choosing to focus on the beauty of the universe and of interpersonal connection, instead of focusing only on how said universe or connections can and have hurt them. In other words, it already feels quite a lot like the Master processed past trauma by deciding to exclusively put themself first, because the universe doesn't care so why should they? While the Doctor even at his crankiest and most, um... genocidal, would much rather PREVENT others from suffering like he did, and it takes a REALLY cruel callous attitude toward other life for the Doctor to forgo his or empathy for a usually quite somber wrath. Most of the time, even at his or her most arrogant or oblivious, the Doctor actively, deliberately chooses connection and compassion over cruelty and conquest. To the extent they have at times forgiven the Master in some incarnations rather than sink to petty revenge. Which to a self centered cynic like the Master, must really seem at times to be slightly irritating rose-colored naivety. How DARE the Doctor act so high and mighty about morals when the universe could not care less about even a Time Lord? (And how dare the Doctor also inevitably make a LOT more friends and be a lot better liked, ouch lol) Rambling way of putting this I know but looking at both their histories and behavior... it really does seem like EXACTLY the kind of cruel lie the Master would tell PRECISELY to try and shake the Doctor's optimism and faith in people, while having the nice bonus of seemingly putting the Doctor and Master on the same side. Pretend the Doctor's been betrayed by their entire people in a horrific way, make them imagine being they've had memories and identity and their very biology stripped and mined for the benefit of others like that... SURELY the Doctor would at last relent and stay by the Master's side at long last, right? Could 100% see the Master pulling that. And even with quite a few fans already suggesting it I think it could be a pretty satisfying twist if done right.

@@studioyokai Yes, but if that's the case, where does the Master's loathing and jealousy of the Doctor come from? If the Master is the actual Timeless Child, why would they be so angry with the Doctor and so self-loathing that they tried to take over the Doctor's life in "The Power of the Doctor"? "I hate you because you're special" makes sense. "I hate you because *I'm* special" doesn't.

@@ospero7681 "I hate you because I'm meant to be the special one, and yet somehow it's you" maybe?

Yes, I dislike this story with all my being. The Master being the Timeless Child makes WAY MORE sense.

I hope Stephen Moffat finds a way to retcon the timeless child retcon. Even if it's nothing more than Jodie Whittaker stepping out of the shower and saying it was just a dream.

The fugitive doctor came before the first

@@zachs9150 I know that, but what I was saying is that maybe the Police Box design was her favorite and the TARDIS remembered that

@@PikaBrid I suppose, but wouldn’t the tardis have done that plenty of times before to the first?

@@zachs9150 maybe they hadn't been together that long when the series started? Or maybe this was her first time going back to the UK in a period where the Police Box actually made sense as a disguise? I feel like that was the inciting incident: being back in a place where the Police Box was a good shape led to her taking that shape again. And having taken it, she remembered how much she liked it and decided to make sure she'd get stuck that way

​@@douglaswolfen7820Or maybe since it has a working chameleon circuit and is a multi dimensional bang It knew thirteen would dig it up, so it took a shape She would instantly recognize She becomes a police box because she knows she will be a police box

I'm more upset/disappointed that the O Master retained exactly NOTHING of Missy's moral transformation, was not effected by it a bit, full reset to evil, and not even a mention of 'ugh, glad that sympathizing regeneration is over' or anything. O appears as if Missy never happened and he's just after Simms. Not a plot hole, just poor treatment of a character, in my opinion.

@@jrobertlysaght Maybe in his personal timeline he's somewhere between Ainsley and Jacobi? I know there's EU media which suggests he's post-Missy but it's far from unheard of for the TV show to contradict EU.

That’s an interesting thought, could be right!

But is he? He's 14 now and haven't they made explicit statements that he's NOT 10? So it seems more like a case of Capaldi's regeneration where he was like, "Why this face?" And we remember 10 seeing that face on Pompeii. So just like 12 took an old face (although of another person), 14 took an old face, but of himself. 10. (Also, just to clarify so people don't think I'm being anti-LGBT+ here, as far as I know, The Doctor has always used gendered pronouns and identified basically in a binary fashion. Like 11 I think was like, "Am I girl? No. And still not ginger!" So I'm referring to the male versions as he/him. If I talked about 13, I'd use she/her. The Doctor doesn't seem to go by they/them, so I'm not using those. Although I also feel like The Doctor wouldn't care if you referred to them as they/them, especially when talking about all versions, and not just the male ones lol)

@@Paradox-es3bl In the Day of the Doctor, 11 meets the Curator who is supposedly a future version of the Doctor that regenerated into one of his old faces. Maybe regenerating into an old face also changes the clothes to match the old clothes? And if that's the case, maybe 2 was actually an old face the Doctor had from before their memory was erased, so when they were 2 he was actually a repeat but didn't know it?

This isn't the first time he's done that

​@@Paradox-es3blEven though he explicitly is ten and eleven and one and ruth and war Actually he's none of these things he's just a doctor

Yeah just denied The fact that we have sixty years worth of evidence and only a few lines from the seventies that you people seem to be cling to The doctor has been a pioneer among the room people since the daleks The Others stood alongside rasalon And omega

Because the moment he read the end of the book he knows he never saved or saw them again so it's a fixed point he can't undo

@@sampenney545Then again, what exactly constitutes a fixed point? Like how long needs to pass before a moment becomes “fixed”. Is it just a major historical event? Both Waters Of Mars and Rosa would imply that, given how the plot of both stories involves undoing a fixed event which would have catastrophic effects on the future timeline

@@sampenney545 But he didn't read the final page until after telling River he couldn't go back to save them. He should have immediately gotten into the Tardis, figured out where they ended up, then travelled to before they arrived and leave some message for them to find. Or arrange for a letter to be delivered telling them to wait six months or to just hitch a ride far enough outside NY to a place he could meet them safely.

@ChrisEllorris but by that point he already saw their graves so he knew rheyblived their lives rhere so couldn't save them

@@sampenney545 Sure, maybe he couldn't bring them home, but he could have had a proper goodbye! Gotten a hug! Ten burned up a sun to say goodbye to Rose, but he just let the Ponds go because he saw their names on a tombstone? I just didn't like the explanation they gave is all. It was also such a harsh and sad ending for my Ponds and I wanted a better goodbye😭 At least Eleven got to see Amy one last time when he was regenerating Wasn't there a whole plot point about Rory seeing his name in the hotel and it being a fixed point but then they changed it by jumping off the building? Proving that not all fixed points are truly fixed? I need to rewatch it, I don't remember all the details.

Maybe they leapfrogged instead 🤔😁

@@FireHeart2829 I would love to see that illustrated! 😄

i mean thats only until the ones behind look away or cover their eyes, which brings about a pretty interesting theory, what would happen if an angel could see itself without the whole bs of "depiction of angel is another angel" like if you could somehow make it see itself without invoking that bs rule, would it, the sentient creature, become quantum locked from seeing itself, or would it never quantum lock because everytime it tries to look at itself it turns into stone, and stops being a sentient creature, or would it just sort of change rapidly from quantum locked and not quantum locked for the rest of eternity

@@ailospjellok7475 So, A weeping angel that looks into a mirror becomes a Schroedinger's angel? Well, why not?

Also it's canon now (well it's been for some time), that Clara falling through the Doctor's timestream advised him to take "this another TARDIS". He was originally going for another one (not remembering and stuff), but Clara being inside his mind (the timestream is the Doctor basically), subconsciously chose to offer the correct one.

Forgive me, but there is an explanation for the wrecked Chameleon Circuit in a comic called Hunters of the Burning Stone; The 11th Doctor travelled back to when The 1st Doctor was in 1963 and purposely wrecked the Chameleon Circuit so that the Police Box appearance of the TARDIS would be a symbol throughout history. The TARDIS's navigation systems definitely did not work properly from the start, but there was actually nothing wrong with the Chameleon Circuit until what The 11th Doctor did.

Love this and I'd just add that from the TARDIS' point of view, it stole the Doctor. I personally view this as a case of two beings whose memories are wiped finding each other and falling in love all over again. Basically, it's Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind but with time travel.

@@bumflaps It seems to me that the Fugitive Doctor's TARDIS was quite happy to be dug up -- it got its Doctor back -- while it was in police box mode. Then the Division erased its memory and the Doctor's. Memory isn't that easy to eliminate in Doctor Who, though, as shown when Amy still cried for Rory despite his being removed from her history. So the emotional memory connections remained. When the First Doctor went to Earth the TARDIS became a police box again, and it triggered the return of erased memories. My guess is that the TARDIS resolved to remain a police box as a clue to try to get the Doctor to remember what was taken from them. Now, the Doctor knows the TARDIS as the blue box, and it's happy to be remembered.

@@bumflaps Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless TARDIS?

I think the Tardis is definitely the same! I think the time lords confiscated the Tardis and made repairs. They thought they fixed the chameleon circuit, and it does work for the 1st Doctor’s first few trips, but as soon as he lands in 1963 London, the disguise gets stuck as a police box again.

​​​@@foolonthehill8410Oh! I like this. Maybe the TARDIS had just always really liked being a police box, and took the first opportunity to slip back into that shape when it could do it without seeming suspicious

but it wasn't broken when Clara suggested it to the first doctor. It was a plain cylinder like the others next to it.

@@jrobertlysaght yes, that's part of the idea being proposed. First the chameleon circuit was broken (during fugitive doctor's era), then the timelords fixed it (so it looked like a grey cylinder again), but just because something's been repaired doesn't necessarily mean it's as good as new, and eventually the underlying issue that caused it to break in the first place, caused it to break again (in the first few William Hartnell episodes)

@@jrobertlysaght it's in a repair shop and one of the engineers says something like 'who'd steal a broken TARDIS'

This kind of absurdity is the mad thing of Doctor Who that I love. Now I want them to do another "First Doctor steals the TARDIS" scene where it's flickering between the default cylinder and the police box.

The Sixth almost fixed it once.

From what was stated, I believe there is a process for an image to 'evolve' into an Angel itself. Also, what you just said actually explains a minor plothole. How did the doctor know this fact about the angels if he never encountered it in Blink? The answer, those exact photos. Clearly at some point between episodes those images awakened as Angels, and the doctor was probably forced to destroy them.

Wait….I didn’t think about that - she took pictures!!!! Noooo!!!! 😂 the angel in the picture is the reason why they got sent back in time! Bruh…I always thought the Doctor was “the madman” who wrote the book about angels. but it was a future version

i mean it doesnt make sense and it does make sense for it to be its own angel, but also for it to be an extension of the preexisting angel

And ten didn't recognize saxon until he let him recognize him

His predecessor regenerated in a sheet He was naked in a morgue

The Eighth Doctor also didn't recognize The Master, when he should've been extra on edge about it

@@BrianKyleMcCord To be fair he didn't remember his own name Also, when he last met the master. He was Is either a trakenite Or decomposing time lord But now he's a human

No it's an energy thing We literally see it the master Had enough energy to stay alive, but not enough to regenerate He was essential Zombified They can regenerate infinitely they just don't naturally have enough energy Rassalon Is straight Up immortal the time lords got sick of him and shoved him in his tomb while he was still alive

As explained by 12 doctor its the boostrap paradox he only got himself put because someone did it before which was himself however in order to get out somone would have had to free him hence the bootstrap paradox

Quite easy actually. Well depends on how we perceive time. People think it's very complicated, but what if it's actually very easy? What if some events take priority? Events in the past simply happen, because it's the past, it happened. So the Doctor appeares using the Vortex Manipulator (at this point doesn't really matter where from). Gives Rory his screwdriver and Rory frees him from the Pandorica. The Doctor grabs River's Vortex Manipulator and jumps back to give Rory his screwdriver, "closing the loop" (but it's not a loop, anyway). It's time travel, so it doesn't matter, if the egg was first or the chicken. Time travel can do that stuff. It's how we see time. If it's just plain straight line, or a ever forward flowing river, or if it has loops and some other weird shenanigans. The time itself is a pure human concept. We invented it and it obeys our laws. At least regarding sci-fi and fantasy.

Time itself doesn't really exist and yet it almost always existed. It's how we feel the movement around us. What is a day? A passage of a day is one full rotation of Earth around its own axis. That's movement. And yet we see it as time. One full rrotation of Earth around the Sun signifies a year. Again, movement, but also passage of time. Humans are so far the only species on Earth, that grabs the concept of time, no other "animal" does that and yet they manage to live day by day, year after year. It's not that we have to obey the laws of time. Because we've created it.Time as it stands has to obey us. Everything "ages", but again age is a human concept, cell do deteriorate (spelling?) and die, but we see it as aging. So time travel has to work however we decide to. That means if people say, that time works this way and that way, then it certainly does, because time is whatever we want it to be.

@@TheWiseCollector I've just used the Bootstrap Paradox in my latest speculative fiction short story to initiate the creation of an eternal being within its universe. Titled "Who is it That Authors the Author?" It was kind if fun to play with it as a plot device to answer a philosophical question.

There is another simpler (in terms of construction, not explanation) explanation for bootstrap paradox, which makes it not a paradox. Time is not the true temporal dimension. There is true time, which only runs forward. Time is just another spatial dimension (which does not contradict anything in IRL) that requires a special force to change (like gravity). And this 4 dimensional system has rules about temporal dimension. Similar to first 3 dimensions, but not exactly the same. These rules look like there is a perceived time dimension and requires events to be connected, just like quantum chromodynamics in first 3 dimensions. However, the universe is not created along with the true temporal dimension, it is created 4 dimensional and maybe iterated so that the rules of time will be settled correctly. In this interpretation, there is no bootstrap, there is no paradox. This is the only solution that can be obtained that will follow the rules of the 4th dimension.

It would also make sense if the doctor had an regeneration cycle prior to the main one but the timelords had put a request that he lose his memory for that and the doctor had to become a child again as that could explain the pre-hartnell doctors and the fugitie doctors.

@@g-forcemapping8454 Then why does The Doctor need to be given a new regeneration cycle in Trenzalore, in _"The Time of the Doctor"?_

@@hellacoorinna9995 because he ran out of regenerations in his second cycle which is the one he is in during Trenzalore.

Actually her being a future incarnation and being a reverse situation of the current status quo with the Division wiping the memories of the Doctor, thus making Fugitive forget her incarnations from 1 through the whichever number would be at that time would make much more sense than the other way round that was alluded (not presented) in the show, I'm liking this theory.

No, she's the other who then dies and is Reborn as the first doctor I get all these answers from books from the Nineties this isn't the first time a pre first doctor has come up

Seasom one, epsiode four aliens of london. 9 says he can fix it, he just doesn't want to bc he likes it like that

I think ruth or one of her previous incarnations is the one who made the tardis in the first place Because by some sources, the doctor built it Is by others He stole it Plus I think it was the original version of human nature john smith wrote a book Where a guy made a magic police box. And then later stole that same magical police box I got the big brain

Yeah, people forget Peter capaldi was not the first incarnation of the Doctor's second cycle smith was Cause The first doctor was in a regeneration he was a birth body Now you may say the time was child and I do believe in that but I prefer to use the other which is another pre doctor thing where It's less memory wipe and more death and reincarnation

Well I can answer that first one the doctor Just didn't think about it Next thing you know Three generations have passed and you're pretty much retired Speaking of which better go retrieve the masters remains Also, he could have already had that umbrella In the sixth regeneration, in fact, it was in the conservative with him. We don't know what he was doing before he regenerated

Or they just had the costumes left over and saw no need to radically alter them.

They're not daleks They're not after purity the moment they bump into the classic cyberman they're going to merge

No it means that they Took the ability from the child, which was already something established as rassalon Got a lot of help from an entity called the other and guess who That was yup dr who It's almost like they were trying to tell us Something with their name and face literally appearing in the fabric of space and time

If the timeless child was actually the master. Wouldn’t that make him happy that there was a piece of him in the Doctor. Which in the sense is what he wanted the doctor being like him. How The master acts contradicts this. So in my opinion The Doctor is the better person to be the timeless child.

I'm not caught up in doctor who lore but didn't the time lords strip the knowledge of the TARDIS from the 3rd doctor as part of his exile, what if they temporarily gave that knowledge to someone else for a short period of time making the fugitive doctor believe their the doctor similarly to "The Next Doctor".

⁠@@Bman-dr8hxI never said that it was the master I said it was someone else. However it would make more sense if it was the master as it would explain why he’s so angry about it

@@JunTekuTheEngimagenius

I want it to be a lie, but I prefer the idea that the Master was lied to as well, rather than being the one lying

I don't think it's an old model with Ruth It's brand new She might have been the incarnation to make it one of them did Multiple sources state. The doctor made it and a pre First doctor is probably The answer that can easily align with them also Having stole it I think it's a police box because it's a multi dimensional being. That is simultaneously In that grave in that junkyard and in a dozen other places. It knew jodie was coming so it became a police box

The Doctor's destiny? Such as them being The Other or The Valeyard?

@@Deception975what point are you trying to make? The Valeyard and the Other are precisely the kind of examples that lend credibility to the doctor being special because of his choices, not because of destiny. The Valeyard is kind of an alternate version who went down a different path and the Other has a lot of different origins, but the most widely accepted one is that the doctor is a reincarnation of them, which doesn’t make him special in any way whatsoever because the Other was never all that special in the first place, except for being at the beginning of Gallifrey society

@@romulofigueroadiaz480 The Doctor will become the Valeyard one day. If that's not destiny, I don't know what is. As for the Other. Yea, they helped create what Gallifrey became. So, why are people so angered about the Doctor doing the same?

​@@Deception975 yes and no. The valeyard is an amalgamation of all the Doctors darkest moments, all the choices they made could potentially lead to the valeyard. The valeyard is only a consequence because of the doctors actions which they are in control of. Destiny as a concept is all about an external force or situation out of the characters control, and although you could say the Valeyard is destiny, the way I would put it is inevitability, that one day the Doctor will have a breaking point. The timeless child is destiny, as that is an external force. The Doctor according to the Master " you always behaved like you were different, like you were special, and you were". The timeless child is just so problematic, as it wasn't just independent descision that lead to the doctor leaving. It wasn't a Time Lord wanting to stand up and make a difference and leave, it was because they were a fish out of water and were so much more special than everyone else. The Doctor didn't choose to leave, they were destined to leave as they were never meant to be there. It gave way to much backstop to a character that thrived on being a single person wanting to make a difference

@@DalekCaanOfSkaro Well, if the Doctor is truly in control of that. Then the Valeyard shouldn't exist at all. The Doctor was destined to leave, because they weren't from Gallifrey? What? Not sure how that makes sense, but ok. Going back to not existing at all. Remember a time when the Doctor didn't exist? Then Amy brought them back? The Doctor is Amy's son-in-law. That was lost to a crack that was eating away at time. You can blame Amy for creating the Timeless Child, lol. It's no more crazy than all the pre Hartnell deniers talking about the 6B theory.

To copy my comment from another post, I think a time lord can have excess regeneration energy, but that doesn’t mean they have enough for a full regeneration necessarily. Just because you have fuel in the tank doesn’t mean you can get to the next town. 11 knew he wouldn’t have enough for a future regeneration, so why not use it on river (but this is all covering up the fact that these episodes probably weren’t written/edited with the war doctor in mind)

It took a while to realise what episode you meant given you only kept a single word from _The Angels Take Manhattan_ (2012)! (Do people really not have the ability to check actual names before typify things like this‽)

Timeless child? Official The Doctor isn't a Time Lord anymore. Time Lords may limit their regeneration, but we don't actually know what the limit of regeneration for The Doctor, could be unlimited or it could just be one more, we don't know. And some might say the Time Lords granted The Doctor a new regeneration cycle in 'The Time of The Doctor' but that could 9f just been pretense on the Time Lords part, after all, The Doctor didn't know they were the Timeless Child yet. For all we know 11 might of just regenerated anyway without the Time Lords intervention

@@colinwest5656 Literally the exact opposite. The Doctor is the first Time Lord and the progenitor of all the others. They then got locked into only having 12 regenerations when they were chameleon-arched into the William Hartnell incarnation, meaning that they would have died on Trenzalore had the Time Lords not intervened to save him.

Do you not remember when River saved The Doctor in Let's Kill Hitler with use from her remaining regenerations? I thought that The Doctor had that energy and what he used to help River was some of it.

He makes a point about each room always resetting. Like the hole he dug would always have to be dug again.

The timeless child could been conceived in the time vortex like River Song was but unlike River the timeless child got infinite regenerations. With regeneration being genetic if River had children before she gave up her ability they might also have had the ability to regenerate.

7. I had a doctor who book once that illustrated the difference between Cybus cybermen and regular ones from our universe. I always wondered where 'our' ones came from.

​@@takealilpill347mondas