Another problem with Shilgengar is that Reach was dolled out for free to a bunch of huge and otherwise already great common and uncommon Eldrazi. A 6/6 simply doesn't rule the skies in the least in this format.
i think that's the wrong takeaway here. she is not unplayable in other formats, and the author states she is unplayable in draft. " draft chaff " is stuff that is okay in draft but not in other formats. nice attempt at being mad about something, but she's definitely not ' draft chaff ' and i don't think she's a bad card in Commander .
I think trickster's elk does better when you treat it as a beneficial aura. Gw can get some nasty curve outs with it like mandibular kite into elk or dog with elk. There's also spawn which can carry it pretty well. I think it is solid in a deck that can really leverage it that way.
This is what's sticking out to me. I think people are looking at this entirely the wrong way. It looks like a very powerful card overall but I think it's one of those really tricky cards that doesn't work unless you really MAKE it work.
@@NizzahonMagic my thought is that the data is representing a massive amount of misuse foremost. I suspect a few of the cards on this list can benefit from more judicious use of the insane amount of off-kilter modes they have available. During Eldraine I felt like I was the only player in Gold using Cursed tokens as ex-post-facto removal of Rat token blockers and the like. Cards with a given amount of obvious up-front power will always outperform cards with an equivalent amount of out-of-the-box-thinking power. Definitely not saying that Elk is a B+ or anything, but I naturally feel like there are a lot of overlooked use/synergy cases that aren't being accounted for by the numbers simply by way of them not being extremely obvious applications of the card. Anyway, great video and I'm very surprised to see the numbers on Shilelleleghlengarfrankjoemarybob or whatever his name is.
@@NizzahonMagic I don’t think anyone’s disputing the data. Like you often say, though, it’s not like these cards have a 0% winrate. So I think it’s interesting to consider/be aware of the scenarios where some of these cards are successful at winning games.
Elk Aura is fine on the many 0 power tokens of the format and I reckon Shilgengar is being done hard, he can do a solid job with draw3 faeries decks, plus turning germs into blood before moving the Cranial Rams around can up your artifact count and give more triggers for WB decks with artifacts/tokens leaving play.
I've drafted Shilgengar twice in UB decks. Problem is that the specific build is very fragile in the sense that you need a lot of good UB cards that may not make their way to you (like basic removal). It is viable, and for those decks that get to turn 7/8 with a critical mass of recursion engines they can quickly snowball and get a win with the Marionettes, recycling Snackers, getting repeat sacrifices with the marauders and Chtonian nightmares. I have found it hard to build effectively, though.
Hydra Trainer is largely chaff, but I’ve found that Golgari is such a format boogeyman that she can be good by virtue of nobody fighting for her synergy pieces. I‘ve had 2 drafts where I’ve absolutely rolled opponents by getting 3-4 copies of her, Nyxborn Hydra, and Gift of the Viper. The Trample/Deathtouch interaction makes it easy to push through for lethal damage even on huge blockers. It’s not the most versatile deck, but I’ve pulled a ~75% winrate with it with a critical mass.
Agreed here. I am currently running a deck with 6 or so of the gold signposts and a bunch of good removal. It's bad for the opponent around turn 4/5 if they don't kill the creatures before the get too big and they rely on bites (i.e. the Eldrazi before the 7 drop creatures enter the battlefield). One of the difficulties of this set is that I think every archetype is viable - given access to the optimal cards for the build. But drafting that is hard, and when you have a common Eldrazi boogeyman it's hard to get the critical mass of (say) cranial rams, oozes and UB control pieces. It definitely can be done, but it requires better players than me :)
I think people are just picking hydra trainer because they're in green and think "a 2 drop is better than no 2 drop". It's a card that really wishes it were its cousin Evolution Witness, which can get to that coveted 4 power that green loves so much with just adapt.
Ironworks has preformed really well for me in UR decks, which are a bit more controlling and tend to passively accumulate energy for golems. I think part of the reason it has a low winrate is because it’s being ran in RW, which can neither afford the tempo hit to play this on curve nor spare the energy to get golems out of it. RW aggro usually spends all of its energy on attack triggers rather than saving it up like UR does
I agree. I had a UR/W deck with 2 of them, and even if I only had one out it slowly took over the game. The few times I had both out, they got out of control fast especially with any of my energy enablers.
yes, it's typical with these nizzahon videos. There are some cards that are great if played in the right decks but he says to stop playing them just because many people play them in the wrong decks. One of the most important aspects in limited is to know what your decks wants to do and pick and play cards accordingly. Lookung at raw stats only is very often misleading.
@@stefanoderosa9506 That's why I wish 17lands had a way to show winrates in specific color combos rather then just a blanket win rate. I'll bet $10 the Izzit and/or Jeseki win rates are nearly double boros win rates for ironworks.
I really appreciate your ability to admit you got something wrong. I struggle with that but watching someone else do it is encouraging. Keep up the great work.
I guess this is why I always see black as super open and always get a very strong black deck in every premier draft I do. If U/B or B/G are open they can lead to a very strong deck, but they very much requires enough support to be opened at the table. Both of the combinations as well as mono black have been some of my most successful decks in the format.
Also Trickster’s Elk is best played to upgrade your own creatures, play it on a spawn to get a 3/3 that gives you another 3/3 when it dies. That is the ideal game plan, it also is a modification which does provide some nice synergy, especially in W/G.
The artwork on phyrexian ironworks is so nice . One thing I hated about Phyrexia all will be one is the lame artwork . I remember phyrexians in old magic would be demonic/ horror looking . In All will be one they looked like they were made in. Tesla factory and the red white colors made it look like a red velvet cake plane
phyrexia is under altered management as of ONE. I'd like you to go back to ONE and reconsider it as " Elesh's Phyrexia " . it's the clean and attractive side, the grand plans and vision, while standing on the bodies and sinew of itself now carved into perfection. Remember, Elesh is obsessed with perfection, as is Phyrexia, but Phyrexia is more than just perfection writ large. Elesh's vision for Phyrexia, however, is perfection itself, expressing itself, all aspects of itself bowing to itself. Vorinclex is subdued by his fate to be the subduer, and Elesh is subdued by that perfection, subduing all. Cake and Modernity would be her vibe exactly, so long as you couldn't tell it apart from everything else, and everything else was everything, everywhere.
@@iidoyila_live_ Plus the Praetorian Phyrexia actually used to be Mirrodin and Yawgmoth being the classic tyrant that he was didn't leave behind any means to pass his vision on to any successor. Even within Old Phyrexia if you look at how different Volrath's everything was you'd realize that Yawgmoth wasn't a stickler for aesthetic consistency. 'Phyrexian' doesn't have a fixed set of laws even compared to 'Eldrazi' where everything is themed after their parent titans. It's completely arbitrary and artificial.
I finally installed 17lands for my Arena after many suggestions from Nizzahon. I am already enjoying the feedback you get and it was super easy to install! Thanks for all the great work Nizza, you have taken my limited skill level from a monderate player to a very successful draft/sealed player. Keep up the awesome work! (P.S. I also love the nostalgia for your top 10s too!)
Nice video! It's too bad the modified decks didn't work out too well, they are really fun when the stars align! I wish there was more token and sacrifice support in this format, My favourite draft so far was a black/white token lifedrain deck with the Ocelot that spits out tokens. Shilgengar probably would have been sick there, instead I made do with the guy that sacrifices creatures to get treasure. It was a pile of terrible cards with one busted rare that somehow kept winning.
Trickster's Elk has been really useful for me in EDH as a secondary Kenrith's Familiar. Especially against combo pieces. But obviously this video isn't about that format.
Trickster's Elk is actually better than average, but you have to treat it just like the Oko's ability. It can target _your own_ creatures too, buffing them. Put it on an eldrazi token or a 1/1 flier - and suddenly you get a lot of value out of the card.
I've definitely seen hydra trainer and idol go off, but I'm very unlikely to run the former and have had terrible results from the latter. Shilgengar is a weird include on this list as it's not particularly particularly bad, just overdrafted.
The best thing Modern Horizons 3 did for me personally was give me multiple new colorless pieces of interaction for my Kozilek Commander deck. Colorless instants are cool.
@@TheEvolver311RG is certainly better but everyone and their mom is fighting over it. I don’t see p9 chrysalis ever (obviously) but conduit goblin still wheels consistently. It’s a slightly worse archetype that’s far more open on average
@Jack-uh2db I don't think it's as fought over. I think more people try to draft what is open to them in their read of the cards. It's just when 1/5 of the major deck themes of the set is an entire tier above anything else, you can't avoid people drafting it very often.
Why are you only focusing on a single format to make your decisions on what cards are good or bad? There are more formats then just "draft" that determine the value and usefulness of a card.
