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Aussie boys-no. Keep to your diesels that aren’t available here in the States…As a full-blown Tesla technician (including Cybertruck), enjoy your JDM diesels as long as you can. Don’t follow America’s propaganda for the Hummer EV or the 8-bit Cybertruck…they’re absolute junk, and we’re all jealous that you get the badass Landcruisers and Hiluxes over there!
It shows how good EVs have become that the arguments against have to do with "you can't cross a continent in a 3 ton truck in one shot." That's fine for 99% of use cases. I'm sure most people who own a fully kitted overlander also have a daily driver. It's OK to have both.
Except that he was being very generous... That 500km range drops significantly with any amount of weight. Load it up for camping, and you're probably getting closer to 300km on a charge, if not less. This is a problem for tradies as well... SO really, these 4x4s, and other EVs are good for people who only need it to commute in the city. And at that point, an EV 4x4 is wholly useless.
@@aresonasis3343 That's basically what I'm saying. Keep your fully-kitted overlander for your vacations and use something else day to day. After all, a truck that works great in the bush is nearly useless as a daily. You can't park it anywhere, you are using-up very expensive tyres, your neighbours hate the noise and smell, and you spend hundreds every month on fuel. Fuel savings alone will pay for a nice EV "shopping trolley."
Exactly. We replaced our city car with an EV. The fuel costs alone are less than a fifth of the cost of running a petrol car + there are zero servicing costs. The EV is serenely quiet. It’s the way cars should always have been. Having said that, we still have a diesel 4x4 for everything else outside the city. But I must say, the only reason is a lack of EV charging infrastructure and no credible / affordable 4x4 EV options yet. However, as the charging infrastructure becomes reliable across the continent (which will happen faster than most fear) and vehicles such as Rivian arrive in Australia, I will be an early adopter of 4x4 EV’s. ALL of the metrics are so much better than diesel IMO, as per my other post.
Keeping the charge between 20%-80% is recommended when the vehicle is being stored to prolong the capacity of the battery as dendrites can form (some chemistry is more susceptible than others) but when you are using the vehicle you can use the whole of the battery without harming the capacity. Battery capacity does drop over time but tends to level off over time at about 85%-90% of its original capacity.
The Electric Viking did a video a little while back of some guy with a Lightning that has done about 100000 MILES in about 2 years, with lots of DC fast charging. Battery health after that time: 97%. Anyway, your statements are correct, but the battery tech is improving all the time.
As an American I'm interested in the Jeep Recon. I've seen Rivians prove themselves on the trails and cross country. Things aren't as remote over here, so I could enjoy the benefits of an EV easier.
🤣 Maybe where you are...there are no chargers within a usable driving range in most of the places I can easily drive to in an ICE 4x4. As far as buying any Jeep let alone an EV...I would direct you to any quality survey regarding Stellantis vehicles.
It’s not just the technology. It’s also support network, ability to repair, cost and availability of said repairs and cost of insurance . Most ev brands will only allow you to take their cars to their own dealers and or repair centres.
@@davesimmonds1133 That's because they invested in ICE instead and ignored EVs. If the same amount of money and time had been invested in EV tech they'd be far advanced over whats available now.
Even if all these issues were addressed. It gets friggen HOT in Outback OZ, who wants to stand next to their EV in 50-degree heat while their shit box EV is charging
And an absolute bucket of shit to drive . We have land cruisers at work and ever time I get in one I wonder how anyone forks out 80k+ for them and can sleep at night
@@RoamingRooma same quality vehicle for 1/3 the price , could buy a Musso , a camp trailer and have 2 weeks in Vegas drinking cocktails around the pool for same money lol
Ronnie, the 80% rule is to reduce the battery degradation over time not due to fire risk, and the battery warranties are for 8 years they last way longer than that. There is no problem charging to 100% if you are on the move. However, that last 20% is also the slowest to charge so when you drive an EV long distance you only want to charge enough to get you to the next charging stop. This used to work OK in a Tesla on the main highways on the east cost, but now there are too many on the road and charging is painful when most people want to be on the road. EVs are nowhere near ready for Australia because thebrange is too low and the charging infrastructure sucks, and I don't think they will ever be ready for the outback because of the charging situation.
Check out the Audi Dakar race truck . Full electric drive train and had a petrol engine in the back running as a generator . So you get the benefits of electric torque , huge power and no gears or clutch etc . This could be something that could make it in to cars eventually for long range
that is just sheer stupidity,,,, driving long distance & only charge enough to get to the next charger.... what if that chargers not working.. what if you miscalculate or head west on the nullabore .. and find that the head wind has just knocked an extra 100k off your range
@@allan1837 I hope he means going from 80% to 40% and back up to 80% as an example. Anyone who goes from 40% to 0.1% and then back up to only 40% deserves to be stranded.
A full ev with a small battery and a diesel/petrol range extender would be a great option in my opinion. You charge it for everyday use (which doesn't need a massive range) and if you travel you can just put some diesel/petrol in it. Best of both worlds. Not to mention a smaller battery would make the vehicles lighter, more efficient, cheaper, and more environmentally friendly.
This. I think the Mitsubishi PHEV system is a good idea. Needs refinement and needs mating to a decent body, but the principle is very strong. If they offered it in the Pajero with a single electric motor driving the wheels through a traditional mechanical 4WD setup, you'd have the basis of a really good, cleaner 4WD that could multitask in town really well. Say a 15kwh to 20kwh battery, mechanical 4WD system, and make the motor a simple genset running in a narrow or constant RPM band to feed power into the system when needed.
I’ve got a gen4 Outlander PHEV and it’s bloody brilliant. We’ll start to see similar PHEV systems in ‘proper’ 4wds with high clearance and more serious armour for the battery in the next couple of years. Once you drive around town on electric motors it’s just feels mad firing up a cold engine every time you want to drive to work or the shops. But you can’t beat the energy density of liquid hydrocarbons for long drives.
BYD Shark and Ford Ranger PHEV will be interesting for the market. I imagine Everest, Prado, Hilux, and Amarok will all have a PHEV option too soon. While people are declaring the sky is falling, it’s actually an exciting time in automotive development for all kinds of new offerings
5 years driving a Tesla in regional NSW (and a Ford Ranger) and I have not once had to wait at a Tesla supercharger, there has always a stall available.
After renting a Hybrid X-trail, I would for sure go a Hybrid in similar style 4wd, one where it is electric driven and fuel generator to charge the batteries.
Spot on Ronny. We heard the same counter arguements here in the states before the Lightning and Cybertruck came out. Idiots who didnt own trucks - or never used them as trucks - said they'd be the "perfect truck" which was comical to any of us who have done any ranching, farming, or off-roading. Anyway, sure enough, the Lightning came out and promptly fell on its face trying to tow any range at all, and it is leagues better than the Cybertruck. But the idiots won't listen until they hemorrhage money. EVs are tanking fast now that the easy money is gone and the problems with EVs have made themselves evident to even the densest customers.
I have to agree with Ronnie on this one. The battery technology alone just isn't good enough to get the range required for remote offroad travel in EV's. Throw in the fact that EV 4X4's are in their infancy and are unproven in harsh Aussie conditions.. yeah nah, its not happening.
I think all these points are valid except durability. Without significant increase in battery power density and charge delivery, the most electrification we’re likely to see in overland 4wheel driving is there might be a decent hybrid at some point (there isn’t currently). Durability though, I have to disagree. How would they go on corrugations etc? I would expect better than anything. Think about it like this - the engine basically has one moving part. There’s no driveline to worry about at all, since the motor can be attached directly to the axle, and there’s no gearbox. You don’t need oil or coolant… only thing to worry about is suspension and tyres, which are already a solved problem. I take your point about if a computer breaks how do you fix it. Even for people like myself (I’m a software engineer), it would depend on the manufacturer making the systems accessible. Essentially I think for remote off-roading, they would need to make the software open source. But they can’t just make it open source, because if they give you access to basically re-program the computer, are you going to accidentally fuck up the brakes or the steering? Software is complex. Even someone who’s good at programming could cause unexpected behaviour, and in the tech industry, code changes that relate to people’s safety get THOROUGHLY tested before being made available to the public.. And are they liable if you have a crash after modifying the software? I can’t see it working to be honest. You would have to be able to self-solve ANY problem you could possibly encounter, and I can’t imagine how that would be possible without being able to push your own code changes. But in terms of PHYSICAL reliability, honestly, EV’s (as a concept) are pretty solid.
You definitely have oil and coolant in an EV. They still have differentials on the axles, often they have reduction gearboxes, and the batteries and controllers need active cooling which is done with a radiator and coolant circuit. It's a lot more maintenance free than a normal car though, to the point of being a total non-concern for up to 100,000km intervals, but whether that actually ends up being true is going to be down to how well-designed the particular car is. The same limitations that apply to a normal 4x4 on those systems will exist, eg, all diffs need breathers, so if not extended can suck in water on a crossing, radiators can be clogged with mud, etc. Overall I agree though - they are likely to be more durable, not less.
I buy used laptops. :) I'm poor and tight arse, I'd happily play with a ( cheap ) used EV. I'd rip all the gear out and graft it into my old crusty land rovers.
The sad thing is that none of that matters, the manufactures will build & sell what makes them money and the number of people using a 4wd for more than a shopping run is so small. The manufactures won’t care
This is the correct take. Some content creator from Perth, the world most remote city, isn’t 90% of actual 4wd owners who are east coast and mostly day trip. Yes, EV’s can’t replace all 4wd’s, but for your average dickhead from the suburbs of mel, syd, or bne, they can do anything they need.
@@Alan.livingston What Ronny said is still true. 4WDs are just not a good example for the situation, as 90% of 4WDs could be replaced with something else in Australia. But have a look at the humble 2WD tradie Utes that drive many kilometres and tow trailers all day long - everything said in the video can directly be applied to this group of vehicles. Haven't seen a single 2WD Ute EV......
The Ford F150 Lightning is actually an example of a vehicle that would be useful for tradies - has power on board to run things at sites without needing a generator. Prices need to come down for anything like this, but it's early days yet.
@@ChrisRyan_Oz still no alternative to a basic 2wd Triton or BT50 unfortunately. Wondering what's going to happen? A new 4x2 Hilux is less than $30k ......
@@andrefischer5025 My prediction: less than 10 years, maybe quicker, but I think the fossil fuel industry, clueless politicians and other misinformation trolls will probably slow it down. Also, for that Hilux, can it provide power to the tradies tools?
I like this video as it not only highlights the downsides of current EV technology in the marketplace today, but also the many advantages and a glimpse into the future of what a 4WD EV could be. How far into the future, if it is at all in the future, I do not know but current battery and charging technology is certainly not up to much more of a job than a city runabout.
Nah current tech is fine for most people who own vehicles. They do really well for long ranges too, in places where there’s fast chargers, cos you save decent amounts of money.
It's a non starter. I have a grenadier and my wife drives a Tesla. We have had the Tesla for nearly 5 years, its a great car and for day to day stuff it's brilliant. But if you need to do a long trip, forget it. Yes there are charging stations all over the UK but often when you arrive someone else is using it, and its not like waiting 2 mins for the diesel pump. Or they are out of order, or you have to download an app to use it... Honestly it's a massive PITA. If you are a 2 car family and you have a diesel for long family trips then an EV is really good, just don't think about driving big distances. And yes when it gets cold watch your battery life disappear... For the school run, commuting, and shopping EV's are great. For trips, towing and off road forget it.
Explore life towed a boat from Brisbane 200ks to a dam return and only just made it, and they had it on charge all night as well. So towing a van, 150ks and recharge it. What happens if you're on the beach with tide coming in and she goes flat bahaha
probably similiar to running out of fuel. Try it again in 20 years, still won't be 'never'. Just like trying to explain someone who uses whale oil in their lanterns about the usefulness of battery powered (with small solar panels) on LED torches.
Yeah, that's the reality today but that wont be the reality in a decades time. Two decades time. Three decades time. This video could have been made about the internal combustion engine in Australia 120 years ago. "Why the ICE engine will fail in Australia." No fuel stations. ICE engine unreliable and not very powerful. No mechanics. No car shops. No decent roads etc etc. Things change, development happens. Li batteries are where they are right now but then, the first Li battery only hit the shops in 1991, relatively recently when compared to the first petrol engine.
Here in the USA I do not see my self buying an EV 4x4. I love the peace of mind I have with my Toyota 4Runner off pavement and on pavement. Even when I travel interstate I don't plan refuel, I just check the exit board, pump gas, buy some snacks and back on the road. Shortly we'll be in Yellowstone national park and we won't be wasting time recharging inside the park. Just pump petrol and on the way. We only have one week to cover approx 2000miles planned trip. I don't see that happening in an EV.
Full electric will never work, but diesel electric could give the benefits of full electric with the ability to refuel. Also towing could be easy cause of that torque. Reason trains are diesel electric
To be fair - an electric Ute may well suit a tradie who just stays around town. So much cheaper to run and they can charge it up each night. Also - Perth to Sydney has been done already my plenty of EVs. Yes you have to stop to charge and yes you must follow a route that has chargers BUT this nonsense about not using the top or bottom 20% of the battery capacity isn’t valid. On a road trip like that you definitely can fast charge to 100% and use down to 0%. Just best to stick between 20-80% when pottering around the cities. Road trips - can totally use it all. And if you have an LFP EV really the 80% rule isn’t anywhere near as relevant. Certainly though I agree that off-roading and towing - EVs are a long way off. What we need is every servo having EV charging and Hydrogen and we have have a winner all round. Mind you - can’t carry backup Jerrys of fuel for EVs unless you also carry a generator. For your survey - it’s petrol engine all the way for a 4WD for me (not pertol). Can’t stand diesel.
Vehicle manufacturers are being forced to reduce emissions across the fleet that they offer for sale. They can average it out across their models, so a quick way of meeting targets is to have an EV in the fleet. At this stage, the main target buyer of a 4WD EV would be the weekend warrior who is city based and occasionally sneaks out to nearby 4 wheeling areas which are in range. And mining companies who can install rapid chargers on site.
Rivian is such a great company, that they now need the money from Volkswagen to survive and not going broke! Even in Germany the great brands are starting going back from EV, because there are to much problems with the batteries, the range, the cost and at most with the problem of charging.
I'm happy with my Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV because 90% of the time doing the rounds around town it saves me a lot of money driving electric from the solar panels and the 10% of medium off roading to various camp sites with the family is good enough. Comprising yes, but I think that's the best of both worlds.
That seems to what people are missing. Electricity still comes from coal in many places around the world, and the more demand EV's put on the grid the more pollution coal plants will put out. It doesn't seem like we're gaining anything. Last summer here in Newfoundland was insanely hot and this summer is still bloody warm. Certainly doesn't feel like Global Warming has been impacted by EV's, if anything the weather has only gotten warmer since this EV push started. Wouldn't surprise me if the increased demand on power grids has completely offset any pollution savings EV's was offering.
It just doesnt work. Maybe it will in the future but i cant see manufacturers making batteries any bigger than they need to. So, what are we looking at here, most of the country being inaccessible? How is the government allowing that? What about the people living in remote areas!?
I'm a deep ecologist. I am 100% passionately and absolutely devoted to Earth. I live for and worship the Aussie rainforest. So when I say that I would never consider a battery electric vehicle for remote use in Australia, I want you to understand exactly where I'm coming from. For city cars, absolutely. They're great for grocery runs, errands and all that stuff. But EVs get diminishing ecological and utility returns as the battery gets bigger and the conditions more remote. Bigger batteries just become an environmental liability in production and a fire hazard, reliability concern and dead-weight in utility. There's a right tool for the job, and an EV ute is not that tool... but someone who tries to use it as such might just be.
The reasons you listed also holds true in the States. EVs may make sense as a commuter vehicle in an urban environment but are just not practical in the bush. I'm too old and lazy to walk out of the desert.
If the Jeeps with the range reduction option (aka V8 392) have enough range in US, an EV should not be a big deal. AU is in a whole different level. Same with half of Africa.
@@valijeWhat kind of fuel economy does venerable 80 series get? What ever the answer for any vehicle the solution is carry more fuel. I can’t carry more electricity or haul around enough solar blankets or windmills or nuclear power plants to create it.
@@RayJohnson1980 I've driven thousands of miles off road in the US and have never seen a charger on the trail. So no they are not a viable option for off roading. At least with the current battery technology, they just do not have the range. Even on pavement the EV trucks pulling a trailer have trouble making it to the next town. For example the Cybertruck has only a 90 mile range when pulling at capacity.
@@valije The reality is that a gallon of gas or diesel holds far more energy then a battery. If one needs the extra range all you have to do is carry extra fuel. With an EV what you have is it. It is likely that an EV will only get half, at best, of it's estimated range when operating on rough terrain. It just takes far more energy off road then on a paved highway.
In case you didn't know, there are chargers thru the Nullarbor and EVs do that stretch. One last thing you are forgetting is that as more people get EVs more chargers are installing. Lastly, if you really wanted you could install an off grid charger. This would be much cheaper than having a fuel station in the same spot.
I’d love the EV conversions that Jaunt are doing in Victoria to old Land Rovers. Yes, bit of a niche market, but would be pretty cool if I could afford one.
Let's be serious here. Few EVs (except air cooled ones) needs a battery change after 10 years. Battery degredation is probably around the 10-15% mark depending on usage.
There's a very popular RU-vid video of a guy blowing up his Tesla because the batteries didn't make it past 8 years (if even that). Was going to cost him the car cost again, so he did the smart thing and got rid of it and made money off views.
PHEV will become king of Australian roads, EV’s for the city folk, PHEV for the country folk, and pure diesel with mild hybrid for the mines. Mines will take ages to switch to electric, once a couple of EV’s burn they won’t touch them.
I've just travelled from Melbourne to Perth in a Kia Cerato that gets me 650km on one tank. Forget ever trying to do this trip in an EV. It is absolutely ridiculous. I'm running the heater over a winter run, and it's okay. There's not a chance doing that in an EV. I really appreciate having done it how remote Perth is. Anyone that says it's possible without risk or compromise in an EV is out and out lying. I'm looking at you Yahoo.
EV's have a place and that is with a remote controller for kids. Biofuel is the solution and will be powering ICE in the future. Be it hydrogen for fuel cells or old chip fat style in diesels or ethanol in petrol engines.
EVs work well in urban envrionments. Buses, local delivery vans, taxis and city cars (which really are the ideal vehicle for... well, cities - so a sizable chunk of the vehicle flet which spend their whole life trundling around western sydney carrying groceries, dogs to the park, kid to school and grandma to the doctors). For regional and remote use, biodiesel is absolutely a good fuel. I wish it was mandated here. Hydrogen is just another fossil fuel and has no real future except in some very niche roles IMHO.
@@Syulang-nt4kj Hydrogen reasearch re the manufacture is getting somewhere. Once it can be derived from a bacterial source it could be used for fuel cell vehicles. Those would be electric but using a fuel cell and gas as the main power source. Still electric powered, quick to fill and a lot lighter overall.
Hydrogen isn’t a biofuel. Hydrogen is also thermodynamically too inefficient to work as a vehicle fuel, with significant disadvantages over just batteries for most vehicles, and therefore won’t be used for the small number of vehicles where it might make sense due to infrastructure costs. Biofuels probably aren’t going anywhere either. Ask anyone who’s seriously involved in them and knows their stuff. You might find synthetic fuels or e-fuels, made from electricity rather than grown, have a place again for certain vehicle types.
Thank you Ronny, really enjoy your posts over the years. We have traveled the Savannah Way from coast to coast, and like other videos you have posted showing our beautiful and remote landscapes, EV vehicles are not capable of lasting the distance, let alone the river crossings and harsh corrugated roads. Governments will try and force us to EV vehicles, but this will hurt our remote communities, towns and our agriculture/farming industries who rely on diesel vehicles for everyday life. Those politicians and people who don’t venture out of concrete cities are the ones missing out on experiencing what remote Australia has to offer. Keep up the shows Ronny, may see you around the traps when you visit FNQ one day,
Range anxiety based on how many trips from Perth to Sydney? So you buy a car based on the maximum distance you might do once a year????? That dumb! Buy a car based on how far you drive everyday, the fact is most 4WDs in Australia do no more than 60km a day, even weekend warriors don’t do more than 400km. This means overnight charging at home is totally practical and gives you 600km range every morning, how many ICE 4WD have got maximum range available every day. Resale value…. in 10 years ICE vehicles will be stranded assets, in 10 years new motor needed (20k plus) battery it will be degraded but replacement will get cheaper, we know this from Toyota Prius batteries are now half of what they were.
I have no intention of ever owning an EV Vehicle at all. I won't argue that they have their place. That place just isn't with me. Also after seeing a few reports of the Tesla Cyber Truck getting bricked by a CAR WASH(yes that happens a few times already in the USA) I'm not exactly sure I would want to bother.
You can charge to 100%... They just recommend 80% for longevity. But LFP batteries are taking over and not even a consideration to worry about. Million mile battery.
I know this will get you heaps of views Ronny, but it's a bit disengenious to say they will never work due to the technology and infrastructure available today. Battery technology will improve, as will charging infrastructure.
@@TheMintox you don't know me, champ. I've travelled in the bush plenty of times and agree it's not viable now, and probably won't for a good many years. But never is a long time and predictions about future technologies are always hard to make
@@deejayvee I’ve noticed Ronny does the “never do this” or “never will work” a lot, a bad habit and probably one that annoys a lot of people. People that have absolutes like that frustrate me.
Besides the misinformation, the primary misconception in this video is that most 4x4 owners are adventurers planning expeditions into the wilderness. Most 4x4 owners are parents of large families who want the largest safest vehicle for their family and Teslas are the safest cars on the road. Plus they can drive themselves and go fast!
Until a EV can charge on the go so you dont need 240v, they wont survive on long distance off the beaten track. And thats the kicker. Australia is a WIDE OPEN country.
I think that the ultimate goal for the extreme greenies would be. No more 4x4 or caravan and camping lifestyle in Australia. "Its a luxury where millions of km are wastefully travelled each year, and it must be stopped". So let's put and end to that too. It may sound silly, but I wouldn't put it past a government implementing this by raising fuel taxes. Raising registration costs as the vehicle gets older , like in Japan. Think cheap near new Japanese imports in NZ in the 80s. The " ute" tax is coming. It's just the start. Fuel tax rises won't be far away, as people will probably keep their vehicles longer and maintained. The government wants us to go electric. So squeeze us out with the above big tax rises. Would that be political suicide, ? Im hanging on to mine for as long as it takes!
...No one is saying EV’s are currently capable of replacing long range touring vehicles. …but they will be. The reasons are in fact similar to why Ronny ditched the V8 in favour of the new Land Cruiser. Driveability, fuel economy, a smoother, quieter ride, more torque, more power. …Across all these metrics EV’s are next level. Add to that, low maintenance, almost zero servicing costs, forthcoming two-way battery charging capable of running a house, or whatever gear you want, and not to mention 4x independently controllable motors at all four wheels enabling far superior traction. ...EV 4x4’s will become a no-brainer. Range anxiety is the only issue remaining, which will disappear in the next 10 years or so, as batteries become more efficient and EV’s can be charged via solar arrays across the continent for a tenth of the fuelling cost of diesel, on a network that will eventually negate the need for any fuel shipping. + everyone seems to forget, if necessary you can charge an EV overnight on any standard powerpoint, anywhere in the world. You can also carry a 3phase charging cable which will charge you in 4-5 hours, at any caravan park and endless outback locations. All cheaper than diesel. …and slowing down is the true art of travel after all. The naysayers will only prolong dirty diesel, until one of their mates gets an EV and they see how good it is.
@@glenwillson5073 if you live in Sydney, yes. But pretty much everyone outside of the main cities need 4x4 or it makes their trips significantly easier
The only thing Jeep has proven is that they are absolute shit. Pricy shit at that. I like the old Jeeps when they were on par with farm equipment. The modern Jeep is big with terrible cargo space and overall reliability. I have a 17 4Runner and it is the fifth 4Runner I have owned. When the engine gets tired I am converting it to the 2.8 diesel that is in the new 70series. Expensive swap but not compared to building another truck to this level of perfection. I don’t mean just the baseline truck, I have the best quality of everything I installed and the setup for overland travel is near perfect for our needs. It’s also on 35s with a re gear and double locked. It’s a beast off road and an engine would cost a fraction of replacing the truck. Cheers
Fantastic video, should be played to every politician who is involved in the EV decision making. EV's are definitely not suited to remote travel and probably 90% of Australia
"Will never take hold" Sorry Ronny, thats woke BS. Its a whole new technology with challenges, but just because they don't perform in comparable ways today, doesn't mean they will NEVER be competitive in many scenario's. Including remote location charging. Never is strong terminology. You may want to consider the year without summer (1816) and its relation to the development of the first wooden hobby horse (Karl Drais and the Draisine: In 1817) due to a horse shortage resulting in the first bicycle which was an interesting sub development on the wider developing road to the automobile. I bet a wooden horse sounded crazy then too. Or should we talk about whale oil lanterns VS solar powered LED torches? Not a never scenario even how unlikely this is going to be commonly accessible and usable, even 200km off road capability isn't a net zero in useable distance. Will only get better. Saying never when implementation is still recent is a fools game.
Never say never. The equations all change when BEVs get to 1,000km range. Give it 5-8 years and we’ll be there. And we’ll soon be getting charging trailers for EV 4x4 - Ford already has a patent submitted. Towing will still be an issue, but we’d rather a rooftop tent than a caravan anyway, gives us more freedom.
This is where a range extender EV will come in. Pure EV will never work for long range either trucks, caravans or touring. But if you have a conventional engine linked to a generator or in the future a hydrogen combustion or fuel cell this will give the benefits of the EV and the range of fuel, but at the cost of weight and complexity
I think you are forgetting one thing. ICE cars will be forbidden in so many places on earth so that it will not make economic sense for manufacturers to keep doing ICE cars. So I think you either will have to use an EV or not 4WD at all.
Only reason to buy a ev in my opinion is "prepping". When there is no more gas/diesel coming in, beeing able to charge your vehicle at home (even if it takes 2 days) is valuable. Also ev vehicles don't need that much maintenance. No diff lock, gearbox etc that can break down (but on the other hand, software problems and battery life problems)
Our electricity grid is approximately 30% renewable with renewable growing. Agree with the video in regard to long distance, remote travel and towing long distance. Regarding battery longevity, I have and 8 year old EV and battery is still fine, no noticeable range loss. I have a CT deposit and will purchase when available, it will suit our needs including towing and mild off road.
I live in Patagonia Argentina, and I don't see that the EV Trucks will work here either. As I say to a few Yankis that ask why we all use Hilux " Have you ever saw on the TV a column Talibans or other fighters riding on F-150??.. Imagine in Siber trucks!!" Great channel!!
I would have thought EVs in Aus could do well in time. Australia has lots of sunshine, plenty of spare space for large solar arays. One big advantage with electricity is that the consumer can obtain the needed equipment to make electricity. Also EVs as 4x4s don't need air, no snorkels, engines can be completely sealed. Much simplified drivelines. You can have 4 motors driving each wheel independently. Awesome control over traction etc.. (Check out Rivian "tank mode") I think you are writing them off too soon Ronny.
The only way EV 4x4s will work in Australia is if the technology can be improved enough to the point where you can charge the car off a solar panel on your roof.
Or, you could have much large capacity (energy density) batteries. Or, more charging infrastructure. Or both. Guess what? It's going to be both - the technology is moving that way already.
@@pyrobob208 I mentioned nothing about the solar panel on a roof (I assume you mean on the vehicle roof, since of course, solar panels at home roof is easy and charges EVs with no issues). I'm refuting the need for the solar panel on the roof by saying that if the battery capacity is large AND there's charging infrastructure, then the statement is irrelevant.
You wouldn't have any issues traveling in Tesla here. 10-15 mins stops every 300 km to charge won't make big difference in total time but will cost you up to 7 times cheaper)
@@-PORK-CHOP- yeah, i feel like im in an echo chamber of diesel bros chanting COAL COAL COAL! Im driving a diesel triton at the moment and is on the fence about getting an EV ute. Im also big on camping and outdoor sports like skiing and rock climbing. I thought this video would be informational and somewhat unbiased. And he lead with driving across the continent, which weirdly enough, i just did last year during christmas, in my mate's tesla model Y. It was fun and much more relaxing than my triton if im honest to myself. I didnt have to plan my trip, the onboard navigation system did that for me, so no scratching my head over a physical piece of map. Auto pilot is amazing. we stop to stretch our legs every 300-400km no matter what we are driving anyways.
EVs have a problem in that their second hand value is guaranteed to be rubbish because they can only handle so many cycles before a very expensive battery replacement is required. Look at the second hand Porsche Cayenne hybrids. Until they invent batteries that can have a lifetime number of cycles, this will remain the issue. Or until someone figures out a replacement system that doesn't kill the value.
My 4WD mainly does 10-30 minute trips then back home. So an EV would be fine 95% of the time. Once a week it does a 450km trip so it’d need a recharge mid-way.
8:40 EV batteries have great resale value even at 60-70%. Those are used for home batteries, since home batteries cost too much at the moment. Also even though the whole battery says 80%, does not mean that all cell are that degraded. Most of the times replacing few cells in battery helps to restore the battery to much better condition. As more EV's reach the age, more places that do replace or reuse the batteries will pop up. That said, yes IMO the EV's are not ready for remote travel..yet.
Honestly what I'm keen to see is a hybrid land cruiser. Imagine all the torque and instant power of the electric motors (especially if you have 1 on each wheel so power can be sent to each one individually) combined with the massive range that EVs can get and the quick refills of ICE cars. Might be slightly less reliable, but only a little bit and that would be worth the trade off.
I have a landcruiser for the long trips and an EV for around town. For me that’s the perfect combination. Can’t see myself only having an EV. However I don’t agree with the environmental part. EVs are more environmental friendly. Maybe not so much in WA now. But if you can charge at home with solar or if the grid power source changes in a few years so will the car. My landcruiser will always burn old trees and can’t be tuned to run on solar or wind. Still prefer my landcruiser though!
It's not just electric off roaders, all eletric vehicles struggle in super high or sub zero temps. Although could Australia power it's bush mining operations with solar panels instead of genrators and lorry loads of fuel. The solar panels could be placed or folded in to a stack and hoisted on to the back of a pick up using the winch and a couple of pulleys mounted on the roof to run the winch cable from the front over the roof to the rear flatbed when the gold runs out in that area.
Yes, but are they like the Mitsubishi phev? Heavier than the petrol model, they run out of charge, then actually use more fuel than a standard ICU vehicle due to weight. And ICU engine does not charge the battery
@gr7788 apparently it can do over 1000km on one tank and a full charge. Plus, you get vehicle to load with its 30kw battery. That's the byd shark anyway.
Ronny, you almost got it right, but you need a 15Kva generator @ 160Kg, plus fuel. Hopefully the EV’s GVM is up to the task as I’m not sure how one would get a GVM upgrade for an EV.
People have circumnavigated Africa in an EV. But I think 4x4 is sort of a costume for many people and EV marketing conflicts with previous 4x4 marketing.
@-PORK-CHOP- the wife's mondeo will do that on a 60l tank. Doesn't take too long to fill. I might get similar range in my prado, but yeah, the 180l takes a few minutes.
I don't think that even the EV manufacturers expect to sell to the touring 4x4 crowd, that's why there's not a lot of SUV EVs being made. The real question is what are we all going to do after 2035, 10.5 yrs! The government has pushed aside any debate and will probably make it so hard to get fuel that even if we have old vehicles we won't be able re-fuel them. Synthetic fuel? Probably $80 - $100 p/l, it's not going to be pretty.
This has been tossing around in my mind for a while. What if remote service stations had a pretty huge solar array out the back charging small trailers chockas with batteries and large truck batteries. Pipe dream I know and no good if your already towing but a possible solution to the distance issue, east-west anyway.
A real life road test in USA showed the cybertruck could achieve 85 miles on a full battery towing a reasonable sized caravan. Putting that into Australian perspective, doing a road trip from the West Coast to the East Could and back you could easily clock up 10 000k. 85 miles = 137km. 10 000k divided by 137 = approx 73 recharges. This is assuming charging infrastructure is available but every 137 km across Australia I think not. The average re-charge time for the cybertruck was 1.5 hours each. 73 x 1.5 = nearly 110 hours or 4 and a half full days and nights in total just waiting around for the car to charge. Also the cybertruck must be reversed into the charge bay which means unhooking and then rehooking your caravan 73 times. Enjoy your EV! Also the American test showed it was more expensive to recharge the Tesla than it was to buy diesel - though I don't know how that compares to Australia as diesel in America is cheap.
As a work commuter where you can park at a charging station they work well. Charge at home as well. Alas lots of problems to iron out before oil runs out, with the ammount of LNG we have in this country, LNG should be chosen as preferred fuel however, global market drives car production and engine selection, our market is small comparatively. As a tourer or remote vehicle, its a big no, until the network has expanded significantly, even then its going to have weak points. our state government is pushing hydrogen power, bit like a monorail from the simpsons.
Australia is way too remote compared to the USA if you want to go touring and to think that a full EV would be the best thing to have in the middle of butt f@#k nowhere and to have it go up in a cloud of smoke because it didn't agree with the elements is not something I'd want to think about..... I'm not saying that it would, but having a full EV, you can't rule it out. And let's face it, at the moment, EV's are best suited to soccer mums and crochet dads....
Don’t forget in any offroad topics, evs are generally heavy af, the hummer from factory is over 4 tonns and they don’t have offroad capable driveline. If it’s bogged down, no chance to get out without towing/winching.
The most exciting EV direct for Australia is what Edison Motors and Deboss Garage are developing. They are working on a retrofit hybrid system for all the common US and Canadian pickups. EV axles, batteries and a diesel engine. Check out the great Logging trucks Edison motors have built. Retro fit and new, both Hybrid will all the pros of EV and all the Pros of ICE, and even a mobile powerplant for a work site. And from an environmental and wastage point, retro fitting an existing vehicle is far better than buying new. I also don't trust a new manufacturer to build a real heavy duty machine. They would design for the average customer that just does the school run or light off roading. Would also be awesome to retro fit our already customised offroaders or tourers and saving all that significant investment we already have in them.
