I agree. This whole issue is about Biblical Authority. If the Bible isn’t the bedrock of the Church then it isn’t a Church. The issue of LGBTQ and same sex marriage is part of the issue but not the main issue. The main issue is about Biblical Authority. What does the Bible say about things like homosexuality and same sex marriage? What does the Bible say about the establishment of the Church in the Book of Acts?
I'm intrigued by the concept of an appointment/call hybrid. I attended a UMC congregation in my childhood through early adulthood. We had a very liberal pastor who ran off probably 1/3 of the congregation by preaching against the Vietnam War and Richard Nixon. Despite Staff-Parish asking for a younger pastor with school-age children, the bishop sent a pastor in his middle 50s with a child in law school. Membership declined, because he did not relate well to anyone under the age of 45. Then, the bishop intended to appoint a younger pastor, until his wife accepted a teaching position at a prestigious university in another state. So, we got a pastor who had been avoiding transfers for 10 years, leaving a congregation for which he served 20 years. He was not a happy camper. His attitude sent more members church-shopping. Clearly, if the congregation had more say in who was appointed, it might have grown instead of shrinking by almost half over 20 years.
and so I would ask, a pastor who preaches against narcissism and deceit( Nixon) and against a war that only took lives without making things better for the people who lived in that country - was a bad thing?
@@digitallyfaithful2 In a congregation that was probably 85% Republican, yes. His sermon that draft dodging was moral did not sit we with the veterans of Korea (which included my father), WWII, and WWI. I know for a fact that Staff-Parish repeatedly asked the district superintendent for a new pastor. But, because the congregation had run off another pastor (he followed a pastor who was there 20 years), the requests were rejected. Did you see where I said 1/3 of the congregation left in a span of 7 years? That's not good. We went from two services to one. Chapel Choir for high school students was shut down. The number of confirmands declined by neatly half. Our saving grace was that there were several wealthy families who would make up any shortfall in the pledge campaign.
@@kentfrederick8929 I fought in Vietnam, I was there, I can tell you all about it. It was Hell on earth and it was WRONG. Only two parties Benefitted: the “ industrial war machine “ government war contractors , and a couple of greedy politicians, Johnson and Nixon. “ oh im up for re-election we HAVE to win. Vietnam was wrong, the Middle East mess is wrong. War is wrong unless we are directly being attacked. Read what Jesus says about this. Read Mathew 25 reed the “sermon on the mount”. Power and money is NOT the way of our lord.
Comment from 80 year old UM woman - after hearing this pastor’s sermon, I have a question: “How in this global world, would any unsaved soul be led to follow the Lord JesusChrist?”
@@alexavilez7254 That is literally what I have told people. If you want to leave join a group that has worked this out. I also like the fact that their roots are in the abolitionist movement. Holistically I think they represent Wesleyanism.
There is always someone who takes it "more seriously..." if these petty reasons is why churches seperate, they will keep separating. Disagreements of scriptural interpretation is inevitable and endless...
@@DanLee8884you can’t rewrite the Bible to fit your agenda. The Bible is the ultimate authority and we must Obey Gods word. That is not a petty issue, and you can not call yourself Christian if you do not believe Christ.
@user-wx2ey3iq3e no one said rewrite it. However there is a difference between the Bible being all knowing and all perfect vs "God breathed..." what does something being "all authority" mean anyways? It is the proper authority on proper things. The Bible is not everything for everything. Is it the authority on how to make the best banana bread? Is it the authority on how to operate on someone who has been stabbed? It isn't the authority on mathematics. Bible 101 is it contains 6 genres of literature. It was written by humans inspired by God. Inspired isn't synonymous with possessed. It doesnt mean they stopped being human. We humans get inspired all the time, doesnt mean we are perfect. The Bible itself says all humans sin. You are defending the Bible against its own witness to itself. There are over 50,000 denominations that claim their reading of the Bible is the "authority." That's a lot of authority. You are the one that seems to want to write the Bible the way you see fit. You are the one acting like a gatekeeper. I didnt know I had to satisfy you before I can approach Jesus. I highly doubt u will find any one person in urnown church that believes exactly the same as u. I mean if we went with ur notion that u are right and I am wrong, why not make ur own church? I am just trying to let the Bible be what it is. It is a collection of writing by people of a specific context of a specific time, seeking God and inspired to share their thoughts about how they saw God in the world. Sometimes it was absolutely inspired and universal. Other times it was contextual and personal. When we hear pastors preach, they are also inspired. I certainly hope u don't think everything they say is perfect.
Funny sounds exactly like UMC2.0 Our church has left the Methodist and this past sunday was our first as a non-denominational and we feel the presence of our God and creator once again in the church. We pray the Methodist find their way back to Christ .
Wrong. They are nothing alike, if anything GMC is very similar to the The Wesleyan Church village verses it being any other Wesleyan Church that's out there. I automatically noticed the difference+feel. You are not a real Wesleyan affiliated person now are you??
We found a great deal of information regarding theology and much more in the video series by Rev Rob Renfroe. Praying God will grant wisdom to you. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5g48onYSqg0.html
The biggest issue in all this is the focus of organization is in human hands. This is why as scripture teaches God has written the law on every person's heart so each individual can decide to be in relationship with God through Christ or not. Personally, I trust in God, not humanity.
I'm not and never have been methodist so maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Do you mean that you prefer a system that is hierarchical and creedal rather than one that is more democratic?
I believe the human institutions of religion all have the same fault. They have human faults and are therefore subject to abuse whether congregational or hierarchical. These same faults exist in those faiths beyond the theistic beliefs of the Western world. Let God be God and do the God thing. Let people witness to what God does in their lives no matter how they define their faith in human terms.
Might it be possible to find or create an organization dedicated to evangelism but 1: operated entirely by laity (clergy might be consulted for advice but as observers rather than voting members), 2: dedicated to not becoming a “Church” organization (meaning that the nearest thing to hierarchy are laity who are elected for one or two-year terms and meaning that the Bible is the only creed) and 3: dedicated to not knowingly accepting anyones tithe (insisting that donations to the evangelistic association be made only after 10% of a doner’s increase has been contributed to one or more “Church” organizations for the support of the clergy)?
Seems what you're saying is there has to be some type of organization for the witness of God's work so humanity can accept and receive the witness. And I noticed you brought in the subject of money which of course is of this world and is a temptation to those in any human organization.
@@patrickdavenport2758 I personally believe evangelism can potentially be more efficient or more effective with organization than without it but a) personal evangelism (of several different types) can be effective without organization and b) if humans fail to do evangelistic work, the rocks will cry out. Hierarchical, creedal and dogmatic organizations will not entirely crush personal Christianity before the Lord returns but it doesn’t take a prophet of the son of a prophet to recognize that those tendencies are ubiquitous and that, therefore, they may very nearly obscure the gospel in the future as they have very nearly obscured it in the past.
I want someone to lay out how the new GMC will differ from the Free Methodist Church. As the GMC concept has progressed, it looks more and more like the FMC. I want to know how it will differ administratively and (more importantly) theologically. Representing two small, country churches in central and south Alabama, church leadership is planning on pulling out of the UMC for the obvious reasons, but we don’t know what we’re doing from there. Near to us, Frazer (now Free-) Methodist Church was once the largest UMC in the country (therefore probably the world). Last month, they departed the UMC and officially became a Free Methodist congregation. Frazer has excellent leadership right now and did everything through diligent prayer. Many worry that while even though the GMC is taking steps to prevent what is happening within the UMC to happen to them that it will still be overtaken once again whereas the Free Methodist Church is not looking to or actively recruiting anyone and has changed next to nothing in their doctrine since it’s founding over 150ish years ago. We’ve got questions and feel like there’s no answers yet.
Have you had a chance to view Rev. Rob Renfroe’s video series? Hopefully if you haven’t you can soon. He covers a colossal amount of information. We were surprised and encouraged. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5g48onYSqg0.html Be exalted, O God, above the heavens; let your glory be over all the earth. Psalm 57:5 Praying with you for wisdom and discernment.
Global Methodist Church is nothing like the Free Methodist Church. UMC was less helpful to those in need, while the GMC people were actually there for people in need/ the same will be said for FMC less helpful.
Curious. What leads you to this conclusion? I don’t see that at all. Have you had an opportunity to check out the Web site: GlobalMethodist.org? Please do if time permits. This link is to the Catechism. globalmethodist.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Catechism-V2.pdf Shalom!
Nope it surely isn't, it is just similar to both The Wesleyan Church+Southern Methodist Church. Global Methodist Church is totally different from any other Wesleyan church that's out there.
By becoming Biblical Christians, a person can without denominations and their buildings worship God and fellowship with fellow believers at any time and in any place.
You can't be the church by urself. That is the rub isn't it. When u start adding other people, there are difference we must address. This is why being a church is not easy.
I have to say I hope you believe Jesus Christ died on the cross was the son of God and in three days rose again because there are different united methodist leadership saying the opposite
I would say to you in love you need to really examine if your truly in the Christian faith and if you are why would you remain in a denomination that is being led by apostate and unregenerate leadership. Listen to what Paul says : 1 Timothy 4:1-2 (NLT): Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. 2 These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead. 2 Timothy 3:5 (NLT): 5 They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that! 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NLT): 3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will reject the truth and chase after myths.
@@timaciousdfiftythree Absolutely not true. This in one of so many “conspiracy theories”. Just Not true. I have attended and been active with a good number of methodist churches coast to coast. They are all Bible believing and preaching churches. Just not true. What you are saying here is a good example of the lies and propaganda circulating.
Well, the United Methodist Club has new rules now. They condemn smoking, and bless perversion. The new Global Methodist Church needs the old Methodist hymnal. They need to (again) sing, "Amen", at the end of each hymn. They need to learn, and teach, the truth about how Jesus heals people today - supernaturally - not by scraped knees healing up on their own. Preach about the times we're living in and the soon return of Jesus. In a nutshell: If you preach what the congregants NEED to hear, rather than nicey-nicey what they WANT to hear, your church won't be the whitewashed tomb you left. It will fill up because spiritual needs are met there.
"A woman should learn in silence with full submission. I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent. For Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed. " (1Tim 2:11-14) "God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, the *_women should be silent in the churches_* , for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, they should ask their own husbands at home, for *_it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church meeting_* . Did the word of God originate from you, or did it come to you only? *_If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, he should recognize that what I write to you is the Lord’s command_* . " (1Cor 14:33-37)
THANKYOU for saying that. I feel the exact way. They are just jumping from the frying pan to fire. I am really not having much luck finding a TRUE Christian church.
it would be nice if the German Methodists would also take this step of separation. I am a convinced Methodist and can no longer identify with the German EmK
We Germans won't leave the UMC and I am glad. And what this guy is saying and the way he is talking reminds me too much of Trump and the dangerous Evangelicals in the US. I love Jesus very much and that is why I stay in the UMC and I am happy that my German UMC will do so as well.
Any church that left the tyranny of the mental degenerates that invaded the church that blindly enters another group is foolish. For sure never give up control of your property. Or give up control of your finances. Don't let anyone extort money from you.
Sadly it’s the attempt to recreate the past without addressing the real issues. But I see that this is a noble attempt. I’m not Methodist but hope it works.
This unfortunate current split in the UMC reminds me of a similar split in southern Methodists in the 1960s -1970s.. When I was growing up in the 1960's South, many churches left the UMC because they opposed racial integration, believing the Bible called for continued segretation of blacks and white. My wife and I were both sad and excited as we recently transferred from a church leaving the UMC. We have joined a UMC church that is staying the course until the next annual conference. We would have preferred to see our old church support, and the UMC approve, one of the other options than the Traditional Plan. We hate to see the church divided over this one issue of acceptance of gay marriage/clergy. We have gay relatives, and it appears to us they were made by God and nature this way, and deserve full acceptance and support in the church. We suppose the broader issue is how literally we interpret the Bible. We think our society's understanding of homosexuality has improved over the last many centuries.
While it was clearly wrong to keep blacks out it is wrong to approve of homosexual marriage. Marriage was established by God between one man and one woman. While people in the OT expanded it. That was not Gods will.
Your concerns are understandable. Many friends with similar thoughts are finding fuller understanding by learning more of the story. This link is to the 1st video of a 6 part collection recorded by Rev. Rob Renfroe. I hope you have time to view them all: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5g48onYSqg0.html Praying for you and your wife as you seek God’s wisdom.
@@EE-qn4ks The word "marriage" is not even in the Bible. Here's what the Bible says about it: David had eight wives, his son Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. Abraham had one “official” wife, and one woman he slept with in order to have an heir. Etc.
I’m trying to respond but I’m having issues with my phone. Please he answered the questions in number one global is returned to the original Wesley Doctrine. 1st they believe in one God the father the son and the holyspirit ( the holy trinity) 2nd all 66 books of the Bible are the teachings and words of GOD. To learn more please look More on the Wesley belief and history you’ll learn about the history of Methodists church and how we ended up splitting up UMC and building the Global I wish I could text it all for you right now this Christian is about to throw the phone
A modified call system is not in the current GMB Book of Discipline. The GMC has an appointment system. I hope the GMC will keep the appointment system. The appointment system is supported by the Bible.
Very awesome. I wish you well. I do see that GMC regrettably allows women to serve as head of the church (or in any and all levels of leadership). I do not see how a woman can be a "husband of one wife" or be the ultimate head of the church while remaining in submission to her husband - would this not make the husband then the head of the church? Not wishing to debate. I truly hope this works and provides some much-needed stability in this denomination.
@@biblicalbacon I agree that God calls all of us to lead, but lead what? There are plenty of leadership roles, including teaching, preaching, deacon etc. But the Lead Pastor of a church, the angel in charge as it were, is reserved for "a husband of one wife" etc. Sometimes women are thrust upon this role because there is no one else available or the ones God has called are unwilling and I get that. It is just as impossible for a woman to meet those qualifications Paul set as the standard as it is for anyone living today to meet the qualifications of an Apostle - yet plenty of Christian sects hand out that office as well. Or to use your question - To make a woman a lead pastor is just as absurd as it would be for a man to claim to be the husband of Christ. It is not, however, important enough to part ways over. It is just a sad portent of a liberal church. But we dont have to argue about that here, we can both simply wait and see. And pray that God reaches millions through this church, and hope that it stays true to its original guidelines.
Hopefully YT won't delete this comment as I'm linking to another video but I found this to be timely and pertinent to our conversation. I do not agree with everything the speaker says though it is worth a listen. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zIuY6aGMFhs.html
Your example shows the inconsistence of female leadership with the teaching of Paul. Ephesians 5:22-23: "22 Wives, be in subjection unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, being himself the saviour of the body."
Those leaving the UMC are the only ones entirely responsible for all the publicity. against The official Traditional UMC . Most congregations are not leaving premature to tbe next 2024 Jurisdictional Conference
As you say, "We are a "Big C Church." ("Big C ???) Denominational churches are churches of the past. Unity, anti-moralism, a total scripture-focus are the words that force people into a particular denomination and it is my belief that this kind of denominationalism is what is driving our young people away from church attendance! (Young people refuse to attend church after they leave the family nest.) Young people are not the fearful people that their parents were. Take "fear" out of the equation and you find church attendance iffy. I see the whole "Global Methodist Church thing" is nothing but the last gasp of a church denomination, struggling to "lock their fearful parishioners" into their pews. This is not going to work because unlike their parents, young people will ignore all of this claptrap and just ignore their local Methodist Church! I give the Methodist Church 50 years (if that?).
Wrong their energy is very similar to both The Wesleyan Church+Southern Methodist Church. I automatically noticed the difference. I'm a true Wesleyan and have automatically noticed the feel+difference.
@@carlcutts8535 It completely ruins the spiritual nature and experience for me. If I want a rock concert, I'll go to a rock concert. I don't need one at church.
@@princessfartsparkles6681 Agreed. And I think that the drums and guitars in the services are just a manifestation of the innate nature of these churches to 'adapt to the world' to the detriment of the spiritual experience. Now they find themselves in the need (maybe just because they are losing too many members?) to make urgent changes to solve problems created by their previous adaptations/innovations, which, as always, are ending up in more division. I wish them luck. But division has been part of their history, and the tendency indicates that it will continue to be so.
I'm not impressed with all that Third 🌎 African GMC crap. And I'm not that impressed with the UMC disregarding UMC rules. What the hell is the point of having rules if they are ignored?
You make no point. What exactly is the "African crap" that you are unimpressed? What rules in particular are you talking about? Can you be more specific?
@@bernhardbauer5301 It is sad you cannot understand what God was telling Peter, the person Christ announced as the founder of his church, that all were welcomed to his church. This event occurred after Pentecost the day we all recognize as the birth of Christianity. The discipline never had such rejection passages until the 1970s. Unfortunately, our fear and prejudices took over the faith not God’s will. The New Testament is just that a new and different understanding of our Creator and loving Father. We do not throw out the baby with the bath water but grow and embrace God’s love of all His creation. I certainly wish my brothers and sisters would see the light God sent to us in His Son. Jesus never turned His back on anyone. I look to the head of my church, Christ, for guidance when faced with such critical questions. Men always let us down, God will never do that. Take care dear brother
@@jamespoplin6416 : It is not Peter, it is Paul. 1 Timothy 2:7: To this I am ordained a preacher and an apostle (I speak the truth in Christ, I do not lie), a teacher of [the] nations, in faith and truth. 2 Timothy 1:11: to which I am appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher of the nations. Paul is our apostle and teacher. We have 2 letters of Peter and 14 letters of Paul.
I hear your heart. Regrettably there many, many, many other reasons for considering a change. This link is to the third video of a 5 part collection recorded by Rev. Rob Renfroe. I hope you have time to view them all - but you may want to start here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fNpmGxE8D88.html Praying you’ll continue to seek wisdom and discernment. God bless you.
@@jamespoplin6416Greetings, brother. I appreciate your way of disagreeing. Acts 10:15 is about being able to eat non-Kosher foods, but you are right that Christianity is for everyone. All are welcome in the GMC, and we don't isolate anyone. We just understand that Genesis tells us that for this reason a man shall leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. A statement which Jesus reiterates in Matthew. This, until now, has been our interpretation in the UMC. We never condemned and excluded anyone, and we won't start. But we will stick to the scripture. The reason that the language defining marriage as between one man and one woman didn't show up until 1972 is that it wasn't even a question in the church what marriage was before then. We are not leaving because we suddenly grew less tolerant 50 years later. We're leaving because of a progressive takeover of the episcopacy in the US, that is unaccountable to the general conference, to the judiciary, and to local congregations. They don't care what we have agreed on, or what the rules are. They are increasingly hostile to those of us who hold orthodox views. And 2553 expires at the end of 2023 with no other hope for amicable separation. Blessings to you as you continue to follow the Lord to the best of your understanding.
GMC should join Southern Baptist, oh they don't allow women clergy. Maybe they will change there rules for you. Nice how you omit the real issues from your talking points. Somethings never change.
The UMC allowing women to be ordained was the beginning of the end for the Methodists. However, what exactly are you referring to with regard to "rules?" Are you referring to the UMC and the specific clause having to do with homosexuality? Or what? My problem has been with the national leadership of the UMC repeatedly kicking the issue down the road and meanwhile going along to get along with the churches that go ahead and ordain homosexuals. It is only a matter of time before transsexuals and every other sort of aberrant form of sexual identity and more become commonplace within the current UMC. Many UMC churches especially the smaller ones are pretending that the issue doesn't require resolution because it would "spilt the church membership" which would likely destroy the church, bankrupt and dissolution the end.
It may seem that division is the natural outcome…. but please consider the possibilities. I confess the same concern you have before seeing or knowing more the details. Now after much prayer and learning more my heart is open to the incredible possibilities. This link is to the 1st video of a 6 part collection recorded by Rev. Rob Renfroe. I hope you have time to view them all: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5g48onYSqg0.html. Praying God will bless you abundantly.
The Methodist (not Free Methodist) are apostate. They have rejected sola scriptura, that is the Bible is the sole authority for all doctrine and practice. Esp. in regard to homosexual lifestyle. They are part of the great apostacy Paul states in Thess. Jesus is going to judge them all from top to bottom.
Sola scriptura is not in the Bible though. Sola scriptura is a man made argument, not Biblical. We're not limited to applying Biblical principles to all aspects of life. I agree though, gay marriage and clergy is wrong.
Love is not universal. God is love. If you have to abandon your brothers to remain faithful to God's will, which is not for gay marriage, then that is an easy decision.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Not super excited about the gmc leaving the umc to be “traditional” yet appearing to be very low church and not traditional at all. The people want tradition: affirm sola scriptura and biblical inerrancy, get rid of women pastors, go back to traditional worship/liturgy(hymns and recitation of the creeds), provide beautiful and traditional worship spaces (stained glass and alter, not flashing lights and smoke machines) please gmc actually BE the traditional Methodist denomination we need right now. We are starved for the traditions and teachings of the Christians who came before us, and were faithful to the end.
Please shut your mouth. Wesleyan people have always had women pastors for thousands of years. Believe it or not, there was a woman minister that used to minister to men/women before men started taking the role in becoming pastors. Next time please get your facts straight before wanting to be a total LUNATIC.
The Global Methodist Church is not Biblically-based. Wesley wasn’t as grounded in the Bible as John Knox, or George Whitefield, or Samuel Davies, or Johnathan Edwards, or Gilbert Tennent, or James Davenport, or Theodorus Frelinghuysen was grounded in the Bible. Total immersion for baptism of a discerning person is biblical instead. The Methodist Church should dissolve into a true bible-based Church without compromise with American Society.
If your argument is based solely on submersion into water, I would remind you that water submersion is "John's baptism" and what did John say? "I baptize you with water, but he who comes after me will baptize you with... fire and the holy spirit." Without the Holy Spirit, you are just taking a bath and will get dirty again. Yes, full emersion Baptism is required, but it's full emersion of the Holy Spirit... not water right?
@@levibaer18 not unless you want to count the rain sprinkling the thief on the cross - and you are missing the point. It's not water at all. It's the Holy Spirit. Baptizo means immersion so you aren't going to get a sprinkling argument from me. I"ll repeat Johns words - I baptize you with water, but he who comes after me will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and(even) Fire. That's the baptism that saves, a work of God, not of man.
@@levibaer18 again, John's baptism was water right? Jesus' baptism was the Holy Spirit and(even) fire. Or do you think water saves you? Baptism is full immersion for identification. If you are not fully immersed in and sealed by (or identified with) the Holy Spirit, then I don't think any amount of aquatic rituals can save you.
You would not want me. I'm pro-choice, support same-sex marriage, believe that women and men (both single and married) are called to the ordained ministry, and that disagreeing with the denomination is not only permitted but healthy.
Come home to the Inquisition, the schism producing edicts who believe the laity should do as they're told without questioning authority, the church which tells God how the Deity should operate.
@@horacerumpole7629 You wouldn't want me. My mother was the matron of honor at my aunt's wedding in 1953. She married a Catholic gentleman. Because my mother was Protestant, the priest who officiated would not let her sign the marriage license as a witness. Any denomination which thinks that other denominations are false is not for me.
