The light has never been just "good", it is not about morals. The Scarlet Crusade uses it for wrong, Arthas used the light to cull Strathholm...etc. In my eyes, the use of the light is about conviction. Your light powers get stronger and stronger the more you believe you are doing the right thing. The light could nuke a city if the naaru or powerful follower like velen thought they were following a holy path. That's my view anyway.
It doesn't matter, it was originally more traditional and based off old fashioned style Christian mysticism type ideas and then the demographic got larger, so **** it, everything is equal, light can be bad, dark is somehow good albeit its wacky and weird... but hey we won't alienate subscribers! F* if its good writing.
I actually don't like how they retconned the old gods. May not be a true retcon but I don't like how they explained it. Before, they were these lovecraftian-esque immortal monsters that could rival the burning legion in power if they ever escaped their eternal prisons. Now they've been downgraded to servants, had a MASSIVE decrease in strength, they were mass produced by the void lords and now they have people that sign their paychecks. They don't feel like "old gods" anymore.
I think though they did the right thing with them. The basic concept of the lovecraftian monsters is... you cannot fight them, nothing you do will help. What do we do? We smack em about. That kind of already robbed them of their power. Putting something way above them, the real lovecraftian monsters is a wise move in my opinion. However knowing Blizzard we will eventually be stabbing at the toes of the Void Lords too.
They should never have been explained period, their power should never have been quantified and history should have stayed vauge. I don't even like the idea that they work together.
The thing is according to alleria, kahdgar is next to pay for the drinks (this is true btw if you know what i'm talking about) and as well according to her never miss-lead a elf's memory even after a thousand years
Ken Kaniff Try going 10,000 years of only ever seeing one. With nothing to compare it to, no clue what it even fully is at the time. Yes they're eleves but over such a long period memories change and things are forgotten. She probably knew what Brox looked like but all these new things running about after that long maybe she thinks different
No joke intended, but I can't remember any fiction with immortals where they don't have near perfect memories over eons. I think the ability to forget is a fundamental part of healing and adaptability.
There is a shrine to Broxigar in the Krokun Hovel on Argus. If you click it, it reads: "Long after the emerald flame took our home, the Legion took to open a gate to a new world. Never had they lusted for any conquest as much as this lush, primitive land. Just as their armies set forth, a green-skinned warrior stepped through the gate. He wielded a single blade--and roared a single cry for battle. Mountains of flesh and bone grew as he carved through the demons' ranks. His defiance drew the attention of the Dark One--who came to see his end. The warrior struck but one blow before he fell, but it was never forgotten."
I think quite a few of these are not as much Retcons but clearing up some more unclear information. Things like the Aegwynn/Nielas are true Retcons where they change actual defined lore, but the Old Gods being parasites thing is just clarifying something that wasn't defined clearly.
They seemed to change how they were fundamental aspects of the planet Azeroth to purposefully made infections that came long after the planet formed. It castrates their power and existential horror. While that makes sense for the numerous game aspects, it kind of disses the Lovecraftian sources.
That the Naaru might be not as benevolent and more on the fanatic side was hinted as early as in The Burning Crusade. One quest in the Terokkar arc sends you to an Arakkoa hermit who will tell you not to trust the Naaru, because of their zealous nature.
It is a rather hidden one, part of a longer chain (either Terrokar or one of the big title/raid related questlines). I can't quite remember which one, but you are essentially sent to the hermit in Terrokar Forest to retrieve something and while he gets the item he gives you piece of his mind about he Naaru.
WoD basically retconned all of orc culture (granted, this was lore prior to Chronicle, but still). Before consuming Mannoroth's blood, the orcs were supposed to be a peaceful, shamanistic, tribal society who mostly kept to themselves. WoD threw this all out the window and just said "oh yeah, the orcs were always savage assholes" which imo really nullifies the demon blood having any sort of effect other than turning them into fully-fledged Legion puppets. Also was it, like... ever really clarified why some orcs turn green while others turned into the fel orcs in Patch 6.2? Did Mannoroth's blood just turn stale or...?
In the original lore the orcs appealed to the Legion because they were blood-thirsty and ruthless. There was fighting among the orc clans and constant infighting for leadership. It was actually how Gul'Dan was able to manipulate them so easily and use so many of them as puppets, because the orcs craved war. Read the Warcraft 2 manual. WoD was actually a much closer depiction of how the orcs were originally introduced. I always hated it when people thought the orcs were brown, peace loving, native american knock-offs. They never were. Before their corruption they were still full of bloodlust, the demon blood just enhanced it, and made them slaves to demons.
You are both right, the answer is really in the grey area of peaceful shamans and warlord society. "Also was it, like... ever really clarified why some orcs turn green while others turned into the fel orcs in Patch 6.2? Did Mannoroth's blood just turn stale or...? " I, too, have literally had this exact thought many times before.
Jake Ritter It was actually. Mannoroth and Aggonar, two pit lords, experimented on them. Basically a fel orc is what happens if a green orc becomes even more fel infused. Then Illidan offed Mannoroth and they were abandoned by the Legion.
masterprick1 not permanently. Grom Hellscream killed him on Azeroth, then he came back and worked with Aggonar on Outland. Then Illidan killed Aggonar before we showed up. He also evicted Mannoroth from the Black Temple but didn’t manage to actually kill him. We killed Mannoroth when we showed up, he was a dungeon boss in BC. Then he regened again, and showed up in WoD. Aggonar also regened and showed up in Legion where we killed him with the help of Turalyon and Alleria. He’s permadead now because he was killed on Argus, but Mannoroth has still not been killed in the Twisting Nether. Unless maybe that’s what Illidan was doing when he had to run off suddenly in the middle of talking to the Slayer.
Well it use to have good, evil and the righteous. Where many NPC were consider good or evil. But you also had NPC that were righteous, where Arthas was righteous until he made the turn to evil. Same with the Scarlet Crusade, following the righteous path. Fighting evil and those that may consort with evil.
I thought it was the Nathrezim that corrupted Sargeras in the old lore, not the Eredar. Considering the fact that the Man'ari are the corrupted version of the Eredar, it wouldn't make sense for the uncorrupted Eredar to corrupt Sargeras.
Here's the thing with the Naaru. X'era's prophecy was 100% fulfilled, did she try and force Illidan to change? OR did she try and provoke him, knowing that he would shatter her heart and spread her light spark throughout the armies? She said his eyes were the key, his eyes shattered her heart, and she bound him so he was forced to use his eyes. As a result, her sacrifice enabled us to defeat the legion. I think it was a deliberate tactic and sacrifice. Also she's technically still not even dead, its almost impossible to kill a Naaru. Even when a naaru is drained of the light and they become void, they don't become evil, it's just a result of their regeneration.
If you want to get invested into Warcraft lore there's two things you need to understand. 1. The actual writing is pretty bad 2. Massive retcons can and will happen out of nowhere
7:50 "He ended up yay!! got a bit of that fel corruption, ugh but he also got a slice of that orc action." lmfao highlight of the whole video, nice wording Bellular.
Its difficult to maintain the story while giving players content and stuff to play. If warcraft were only a story-focus they wouldnt need to change the lore constantly
KamiPain75 They have different teams you know. Developer team doesn't write story, and story team doesn't do programming. Blizzard has just been very lazy and inconsistent. They should hire proper writes, some who can give personality to the characters. As for us the players, I don't think that we should be anything more than an army. Elite soldiers, but soldiers nontheless. Honestly I am disappointed how easily we just kill Deathwing for example. It's like lvl 100 player is stronger than Malfurion or Cenarius. How lame is that...
Everyone takes the new Illidan cinematic and uses it as evidence that the light in the Warcraft universe is, as Bellular puts it, more "Foulable". I haven't seen anyone yet (and correct me if I am wrong) consider that the Naruu that forced itself upon Illidan did so so that future events may unfold in a manner more favorable. Such as the army of light on Argus relying less on some miracle that the Naruu could provide and more on their own strength and volitions. I believe that if my memory serves me right then this instance has occurred in the past before. Like with the creation of the blood knights were a Naruu, whose name evades me right now, allowed its self to be drained and killed by Lady Liadrin. Just a thought.
You are correct and it bothers that people always in lore eventually make their good guys not so good. YEs she went about the wrong way and ddnt let Illidin think about, but honestly Xera was kind of a little nuts because she kept trying to convince everyone that Illidin never did wrong. That isnt true Illidin did do wrong even if his motives were good but he payed for his crimes when he was killed at the Black Temple. The light in my opinion is still the good side of the forces. and isnt evil, its just the naaru themselves are fallible as seen when some become void naaru. So yeah the naaru are corruptable or sometimes a bit cooky (but xera ddnt deserve death) but the Light is still GOOD.
You mean M'uru the destroyer of guilds back in BC. Yes the Blood Knights use to tap in that naaru's light and bend it to their will (if i'm remembering right)
Joseph Mowery I feel that it is possible that her being blown up was part of the prophecy. And the Naaru you're thinking of that made the Blood Knights basically is M'uru.
Because having Illidan be the one to let us know that there is no special person that can save us, but that only we can save ourselves. This could possibly help to make sure that we are not going to try and rely on some other worldly power to win, but rather our shear determination and free will, our "flaws." Even Algalon said that it must be our free will that allows us to persevere where the Titans' own "perfect" creations had failed. Maybe with our last glimmer of "hope" being destroyed it would allow us to focus on defending our world with our own abilities rather than those that would possibly be gifted to us. Also, I've seen some people suggest that Illidan refusing such power and redemption was his final test, that if he were to truly put an end to the Legion it would be from his own doing, and not following any other path, not giving into power like he had in the past. And also it's sort of a lesson, you can't just put your past behind, your past is what made you who you are, no matter how flawed it may be. And Illidan embraces his sacrifices, his scars, his failures, and uses these to strengthen himself.
One thing I've been wondering about: When the Orcs of Draenor drank Mannoroth's blood, they enslaved themselves to his will and the Legion's. After he was killed, the Orcs were freed from their servitude to him. But now it's revealed that demons cannot be truly killed when outside of the Twisting Nether, does that mean that if Mannoroth decides to come back (assuming Prime!Mannoroth wasn't perma-killed), do the Orcs becomes slaves to him again, or does he have to get them to drink his blood again to do so? And is this affected by WoD! Mannoroth being killed and resurrected then killed again?
Tyrande's inconsistency with the orcs can be explained as "Warcraft 3 took place in the original unaltered timeline but World of Warcraft takes place in the new altered timeline" I remember hearing that in Warcrimes she remembers Brox, and in Legion, quests concerning the WoA have Brox and Ronin present
Ive been saying that since ICC was released. There is a boss in Pit of Saron literally named Scourgelord Tyrannus which is a nod to Count Dooku's sith name in Star Wars. XD
Broxigar is very important to the lore. When he travelled back in time Sargeras found out about the orcs through him, thats how things ended up bad on Draenor. That led to the rising of the Horde and the flight of the draenei from Draenor to Azeroth in the Exodar.
I've drawn comparisons between Warcraft and Star Wars before (with Arthas being Darth Vader etc), but the new cinematic has convinced me that the Naaru are very much like the Jedi. They believe in absolute light over darkness without any middle ground. This makes most paladins like the Grey Jedi. They fight for the Light, but follow their own path.
Here’s the deal with the War of the Ancients: we have hopped timelines. Warcraft III still takes place in the original timeline, so Tyrande doesn’t recognize orcs. In our current timeline’s version of the Third War, she would. Not that that would change the story at all.
Brox was canon even before 7.3. when you play as ilidan in the black rook scenario, you can do 2 sidequests: one for Jarod Shadowsong, and after that there is Broxigar himself, which you assist in killing a pitlord. and if you do those sidequests, the two will follow you, and watch and comment as you do the last bit of the scenario there.
You're all wrong, originally in the Warcraft 3 manual it states that the Eredar were a purely evil and demonic race that managed to corrupt Sargeras' head. The reason why this piece of lore changed in TBC was because Metzen forgot about what he wrote in that manual and even had to make a public apology.
Actually, it was multiple races including the Nathrazim and Eradar. Remember, back then the Eradar and Draenei were 2 entirely different races and not simply different factions of the same race. Metzen changed it in BC because he thought Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde had cool forms and he wanted a "Lawful-Good" version of them. He even says so in the Making of BC DVD. Before BC, the Draenei were simply the crazy looking beings which are now known as the Broken and Lost Ones, like Akama.
You're right, but it rather highlighted on the manual that the Eredar were the main reason for Sargeras' corruption. Thanks for contributing to the topic
Warcraft used to be one of my favorite lores, but Blizzard's inability to not constantly retcon it kind of killed by interest in WoW. How can I get invested in the story if it's going to constantly change soon?
The War of the Ancients Trilogy can't be fully canon anymore. The entire reason the events in the novel happened was because the Old Gods were trying to alter the timeline so the Burning Legion would win and Sargares would enter Azeroth. And they did that because it would somehow free them from their prisons and they knew they could beat him. If the Old Gods have been retconed into weaker servants that Titans can destroy easily, then the entire premise of the novel makes no sense. Sargares himself was operating under the premise of the earlier lore.
AbyssalZones just because they are weaker servants doesn’t mean Titans can destroy them easily. We don’t know what the power level of the Titans relative to other stuff actually is. We just think of them as all-powerful because they created everything we care about.
What about the fact that we can only truly kill demons in the Twisting Nether but apparently killing them on Argus works too? And killing Archimonde on Draenor?
in the original lore, Sargeras was driven mad by the acts of the Nathrezim and also the fact that no matter how many demons he killed, they would always come back. no creature alone was powerful enough to drive a titan mad. it was a combination of things
I'm more pissed that they made that particular Naaru an outright mind-rapist and good old teen goth "woe is me while I murder and betray everyone I ever knew" ultra Mary Sue Illidan got his lovely juvenile fan-fiction moment in the cutscene. It was beneath Blizzard. If there is any previous game events that show Naaru can be grotesquely evil without going void, then I don't know it.
Personally I don't like Illidan as a character. The more they push him as some center piece in the lore, the more you can see Blizzard is pandering. There are some people that like Illidan because he is edgy, but a lot of us can't stand it. "What have you sacrificed?" I literally want to face palm every time I hear that stupid line while I am on my Death Knight, "Seriously? A hell of a lot more than you have you edgelord"
I hate that Illidan killed the naaru too. but i hate it more of the fact that she got killed in the 2nd cutscene of 7.3. i mean your carrying around light's heart since 7.1 in your order hall communicating with this ancient naaru and then when you finally meet her, fulfledged out in holiness, she gets fucking pwned by illidan. it was a cull cutscene none the less, but it could of happened later.
TimmyTechTV My issue isn't that Illidan killed Xe'ra. My issue is that the whole cutscene confirms that Illidan is nothing more than a hypocritical edgelord. Illidan never cared about his own self-sacrifice, just others'.
You cant trust the Warcraft Movie. My biggest problem with it is when young Khadgar says that its an honor to be able to visit the floating city of Dalaran. Dalaran wasnt floating at the time of that movie. It should still be where it was in the Silverpine forest since the plague hadnt devaloped yet and Arthas hadnt raided it alongside Kel'Thuzad.
It is not. We also have 2 different GulDan back stories. In our timeline guldan was Nerzhuls assistant - a shaman and in the alternate timeline he was cast out from his clan due to his weakness and received his Fel powers because the elements denied him
I see way too many people in the comments complaining about about Medivh and Garona being father and daughter in the movie. A few things you guys need to understand: 1. It's not gross. Because in the movie, they were NEVER lovers. It's a completely different continuity. You can't judge it based on what you know about a DIFFERENT continuity. 2. You need to let go of your attachment to the idea of Medivh and Garona being lovers, anyway. Because it wasn't a good idea to begin with. The whole purpose of Blizz coming up with that idea is to create the character of Med'an, who is a shitty character anyway, that borderline doesn't exist anymore because nobody likes him. Medivh and Garona being lovers was not told well, and nothing good or significant came out of it. So the sooner we forget that that even happened, the better. (I'm not saying they should be father and daughter in the game lore now -- they absolutely should not. Just that we don't need them to be or have been lovers, either.)
6:28 so it doesnt contradict the Chronicles 7.3 just changes how we are seeing it, so beforehand the souls of the titans went flying off into space and landed on azeroth in the keepers, now with 7.3 we have to think of it as their souls were sent flying off into space but it was done with such haste that Norgannon mested it up, shatering their souls and bits of them landed now landed on azeroth and augus in the keepers (and maybe other worlds we have yet to see) But this could change again when we get more information later on in expacs or books.
If you play a shaman, according to the lore tome about the Doomhammer, it still says that the main timeline Doomhammer told the story of Blackhand retrieving it from the lava. I read Chronicles, and it by no means mentions Blackhand having a different story. I believe that his movie-esque appearance in Chronicles is what he looked before he got burned. Since Chronicles doesn't go into too much detail about the Blackrock conflicts with the ogres, I am more inclined to go with the lore that is still shown in the game. Edit: nevermind. I saw tweets confirming the rollback.
I used to think that the Warcraft lore used to be good, and that all these retcons are ruining it. But now I realize, that whatever there was that was good about the Warcraft lore, was much the result of retcons, and lasted for only a small window of time: throughout Warcraft 3 and WoW Vanilla. Everything before and after had been either mediocre or atrocious, with only a few exceptions peppered here and there. But that small window of time produced things that I love so much -- the history between Azeroth and the Burning Legion; the Orcs' battle to liberate themselves from the demons; the fusion of Arthas and Ner'zhul into one being; the selfish Illidan who would just as easily save the world as he would burn it to satisfy his own ambitions -- that it's hard for me to look away from this story. No matter how bad it gets, no matter how much they bastardize characters I once loved. I still keep hoping that Blizzard regains their good sense somewhere down the road and be able to tell again stories of the quality they once did.
Warcraft has been getting retconned for decades. The existence of night elves is a retconn. There was no such thing as the war of the ancients or night elves in WC2. They weren't a thing. They were completely created and shoved into the pre-history of Warcraft in WC3. Hoping that Blizzard will change is just setting yourself up for disappointment. They won't change because *they don't care*. The lore is meaningless to Blizzard. They do what will keep people subscribbed and sell expansions and twist the lore to fit that. It doesn't matter if it's bad writing or doesn't make sense, they're only interested in the money and see the lore as a vehicle to get it.
Can someone tell me if the whole Warcraft story is in comic form? Is Warcraft chronicles a book you can read about all the story of Warcraft? I've been playing the game for a while and I'd like to know what it's content is all about. Hopefully there aren't many versions of the story like on Spider-Man or any other comics that have multiple parallel worlds with different outcomes.
This kind of goes along with what you said about the old gods and if they have a light counter part. do the other cosmic forces have a equivalent to the void lords? order lords, chaos lords, light, lords, life lords, and death lords. if not the cosmos is pretty freaking unbalanced.. well it is anyway seeing as according to that map in chronicles the titans exist on the same their as the old gods, legion, undead, naaru, and wild gods there is an obvious unbalance there seeing as order could squash the rest. in fact the only reason the legion is a threat at all is because a agent of order switched to chaos.
Here's an idea about Elune however. There's this Legion general near the Temple of Elune in Val'Sharah that openly defies the belief in Elune, saying lines like "Go pray to your pathetic goddess". While the Legion, normally, if confronting with an Old God or their minions seem to fear and dread them greatly (aka remember the line about Sargeras dreading the awakening of the Old Ones). Could this clear out that Elune is likely not an Old God that's benevolent, as many believe still, and that she's more in tune with the Light (and Naaru), all due to how the Legion behaves so dismissive with the Light's worship and chosen ones?
People probably "didn't pick up on" the Medivh and Garona thing because it is such a reach to say he was her father based on that vague movie conversation. That conversation isn't really anything to go on and comes across like a story he told to help his two friends find comfort with one another. Hell, the conversation leads to Medivh talking her into going to see Lothar (whom Garona thinks will hate her because of the death of Lothar's son). Then Medivh sends her to go see Lothar where she kisses Lothar because of the words Medivh left her with. If anything, it was a scene about Medivh being a solid wingman. Also, I don't think we can call the existence of titan world souls to be a retcon of the Titan desire to bring order over chaos. I see it more as an addition to the lore rather than it erasing that other motivation completely. There are a handful of the "retcon" complaints that are more additions to the story than outright changes and this I would consider to be one of them.
Wasn't Sargeras the keeper of the void universe entrance ? He fought for years and in the end he became existentialist like, why do we fight the evil that wants to destroy us if we can't defeat them (since their armies were infinite)? Better destroy the world by ourselves so they can't corrupt us (lie a massive suicide). So he left his post and aggramar replaced him.
I feel that the Naaru are more of a chaotic good in that they will do anything to meet their goal. Broxxigar isn't just nodded toward in Legion, he is also in the Illidan scenario at Black Rook Hold. If you take a path where you meet up with Jarod Shadowsong and help him defeat a Dreadlord then you go up and meet up with Broxxigar who is fighting off demons. So, Broxxigar in the War of the Ancients is in fact 100% canon.
In Warcraft 2, dragons, like Deathwing, were just flying fire-breathing lizards. You even kill Deathwing in one of the missions. Now, dragons are mighty morphing magic monsters that seem like they were conjured from the imagination of a five-year-old. And, like Muradin who died in Warcraft 3, Deathwing was magically not actually dead because game play and marketing and reasons.
Tbh the whole war of the ancients thing is pretty easy to explain. The war of the ancients happened, then warcraft 3, then the novel which rewrote history for that small bit. Tyrande did not recognized orcs because we played warcraft 3 before Brox and Rhonin went back in time^^ ( in the actual lore timeline. ) So basically what happens when Brox and Rhonin venture back to the war the timeline splits at that point and we are now playing in a timeline thats thus far 100 the same as the warcraft3 timeline with the one difference that Tyrande did recognize the orcs, we just haven´t played it. (btw. something akin to this happens with WoD but instead of staying in this new timeline we go back to our timeline)
wasn't WoD technically an alternative universe?.. the major change noted that garrosh wasn't conceived but surely there are other changes as well, and that blackhand story is pretty cool
Medivh isn't the dad in the movie. Cause I'm pretty sure that the draenei acted and called her one of them. If it wasn't Gul'dan. The nod definitely was just an Easter egg.
The Void is just a poor excuse for Blizzard to milk more money from more expansions. This idea that the Burning Legion and the Old Gods are simply pawns in the Void Lords plans is a spit in the face of Warcraft lore
I dont have any problem with them creating something from just air and "milking" their game, it just makes the lore MORE INTERESTING And even with the unfinished stories the lore already has they cant actually make almost any new expansion from that... So welcome be the void lords, enjoy being slaugthered by us
Congratulations, you proved within your complaint that you have no grasp on the content you're complaining about. You win this weeks "Complete moron" award!
"This idea that the Burning Legion and the Old Gods are simply pawns in the Void Lords plans" Shows pretty clearly you have ZERO clue about current lore.
The contradictions in the nature of the light have been mentioned here before and I agree. This makes WoW a much better universe as the fight isn't longer good vs. evil but different forces against each other which need to be in balance(I still regard the Light of being the better choice compared to the Void though). Regarding the Naaru it should be noticed that we don't know the position of the other being regarding free will. The Doomhammer-prophecy as far as I read in the comic came from the elements itself during the weapon's creation. Blackhand is quite interesting there, as he isn't wrestling with the elements, but is willing to sacrifice himself so his clan can live and while the elements decide he isn't worthy, his spirit impresses them enough to grant him their help. This makes him a far more nuanced character than he was in WoD(the expansion of missed opportunities). All in all the retcons have made WoW better so far.
As someone who has played and loved Warcraft games since Warcraft 2, every single one of these was super annoying. My personal feel is that the lore peaked at The Frozen Throne, or maybe vanilla WoW, and as they've expanded things have gotten worse and worse. There's such a thing as too much background info (see also: midichlorians).
The one thing that has always bugged me about the Naaru is that you have these being that are supposed to be these amazing embodiment of light that are worshiped by many, yet for all their supposed "power" they are getting killed/corrupted left right and centre by every random schmuck. Illidain one shots a "Prime Naaru" using an AOE ability, the legion smacks down naaru all the time even though the naaru should be using their holy power to just wreck all the sh*t,
I agree it has always bothered me too that while they say naaru are awesome and powerful forces of good , they get corrupted and killed in literally every expansion and even before the lore of wow. its dumb.
Retcons are not just annoying it changes the actual conception of a story. Understanding a writers original intent is far more interesting that a corporation making an ever changing narrative to suit their content development. Sometimes a more "interesting story" needs to be told with separate characters rather than changing the past to be more convenient . See how well the new star wars is working out as Disney retcons Star Wars to suit convenience.
The Blackhand story isn't a retcon though, as there are two different Blackhands. Blackhand MU and Blackhand OU are different people. Just like Grommash MU had a child but Grommash OU did not. The timelines already diverged before Garry and Kairozdormu started meddling with it.
Pretty sure it was the Nethrazim who were the last straw that corrupted Sargeras, though the Eredar were still a part of it. this was back when Demons were actually Demons, since Demons aren't real Demons in Warcraft now, which sucks.
I think Elune is the combination of both light and shadow, leek the phases of the moon. Also something I was wondering, if the old gods speak that weird language do you think that is the tongue of the void lords? I'm thinking that the old gods are actually a lot like the void lords, perhaps the void lords are more giant, godly versions of old gods like in H.P Lovecraft's universe.
Niko ??? The olds God's ARE BASED off of those very creatures you mentioned. So why would the void lords look similar to either in any way? Think of void lords as astral type beings.
Jesse Snyder They aren't exactly "Astral type beings." They may be godly in power level but I'd imagine they'd have trouble manifesting. I don't think there's any sort of description of their appearance thus far, so I'm going with the warlock pet. (The armoured voidwalker) The old gods were ORIGINALLY based off of Lovecraftian creatures. The only thing I can think of that might make them seem similar now is there appearance. I could very easily see Void Lords either A. Not having any set shape, possibly just avatars, or B. they look all demonic and shadowy and stuff.
wc 1 - 3 were the original time line, than the broxigar incident happend and created an alternate "brench" in the flow of time, an alternate version of the story, where tyrande knows the orcs, where suramar was not destroyed, where maiev took other actions and survived in outland etc. and this alternate version of the story, this "brench" is our WoW
MrSoulcreek ................ You know what? I really like your theory about WoW being an alternate timeline to the RTS. It allows me to believe that somewhere out there, there's a reality where the story makes more sense and is more compelling than what we've been getting since TBC.
Blackhand doesn't need to be a retcon given the alternate timeline and the Titan Soul isn't necessarily a retcon given there is a window for us to find out how it got there still.
WoW's writing is really, really bad honestly. Characters have no personality and most of the lines throughout are just cliché platitudes that a child could write. Also, it's pretty laughable that they retconned most of the lore with Chronicle, but only a year later they're ALREADY retconning Chronicle. It's so disappointing and makes me not give a shit about the lore anymore when I used to be way into it :/
I know right? the worst part is there's a lot of people that say Legion's lore is awesome just because they are showing lots of important characters and bringing back old plots.
Still more coherent and internally consistent than comic books, movies, tv, and most books. :( It's only when they retcon into weird angsty emo teen fan-fiction of their own past stuff that makes me cringe. Cardboard cut out characters are preferable, to me at least.
There is no true good and evil in Warcraft. It is about War/Conflict between so many factions and elements. Light actually seems more driven by urge to oppose shadow(the void), while beings and creation of void seem more driven by the simple urge to consume. Which isn't all that evil... nearly all factions in game hunt/kill for food and do conquest for means of gaining power or by believing to follow a right path... in terms of done kills, we players might be the greatest evils in this world xD
Can we talk about how in the movie canon, Me'dan can't happen? Because in the main canon, Me'dan was the child of Garona... and Medivh. But in the movie, Medivh is Garona's dad. Also, Me'dan couldn't be part Draenei, he'd just be 1/4 orc.
"Not even Arthas could defeat me, yet you dare to even harbor such thoughts?" -Illidan... uh... he wasn't defeated... right, only beaten to something close to death...
