Yes it was but it doesn't invalidate a fun mess with your mind reference. The enterprise D was less a warship and more an armed cruise liner so having a bar was going to happen. As such having it in the forward part makes sense, its the best view while you relax. If the ship is in a fight it still makes sense. In general quarters the bar should be empty and acts as an extra bit of armour, its not functionally necessary after all. No future mind stuff needed, just a bit of luck. Its a nice, if unsubtle, touch to Guinans power and humanity.
@@suckmeshitbags5634 I did and I 100% agree with Bill. The writers on Picard have never watched Star Trek and from the looks of it, they never plan to watch it. They didn’t understand the name Ten-Forward and apparently never asked.
I assumed it was just because of the tendency these days among lazy or Trek-ignorant Star Trek writers and directors to shoe-horn in an Easter egg wherever they can, to try to borrow some of the glitz of superior shows that came before. It goes back to JarJar Abrams ripping off "Wrath of Khan" for the execrable "Into Darkness."
The Dyson sphere Scotty found should spawn an entire series just dedicated to exploring the sphere. The ramifications to the its discovery should be incredible to the trek timeline.
Regarding the Dyson Sphere - YES! That could have led to a series where a myriad civilizations could be explored with various levels of tech and numerous species.
Agreed. I remember when "relics" aired, I had hoped that a new series would be created with Scotty leading a team of engineers figuring out the mysteries of the Dyson Sphere. Sadly it never happened. But maybe one of the "New Trek" shows could revisit it and talk about the research that took place.
I always thought the Borg time travel was a closed loop, to explain why the Borg we're headed to Earth, since, if Q is to be believed, they were already headed to Earth anyway, and he just introduced the Enterprise D to them to make the crew aware of what was coming.
However, Guinan knew that Q sending the Enterprise to meet the Borg was far earlier than was supposed to happen, adding to Guinan's often mysterious nature. But given that Star Trek is a multiverse where time travel technically causes characters to hop realities, it's not impossible for time travel to loop on itself and make a seeming paradox.
@@silversonic1 it’s also possible that Guinan either didn’t know about the interaction, OR she did know slightly and knew it was needed for things to play out as is. Remember, as her younger self, she was VERY good at keeping older Picard in the dark because if she did tell him, then he might not have made the decisions needed. She usually only gives SLIGHT advice except in cases where the Enterprise C caused the time shift, and then she’s more forceful
@@Beyondthe5thPanel Also possible. Still, I feel like too much of the intent behind Guinan as a character is missing. She's always been cryptic about her relationship with Picard, even telling him that the time he thought was the first time they met actually wasn't. If anything, she kind of comes off as a Time Lord. And since I'm a season behind on Picard(waiting for Lower Decks to come back before resubscribing to Paramount+), all I can say about her and Q is that she and Q have a rather hostile relationship. She was one of the only ones to believe he had been depowered, stabbing him in the hand to demonstrate it. Q is one of the only beings capable of making Guinan lose her somber attitude. Guinan is also one of the only beings Q has shown open animosity towards as well. Needless to say, there's a lot of stuff to factor in.
@@silversonic1until the reboot movies, Star Trek was designed to be a closed loop/single time line. This was the rational for all the efforts to continually “fix” the timeline. The multiple universes (mirror universes) were considered the same timeline with parallel development, not branching timelines.
Don't waste your mental strength on all the head canon and excuses for the 10 Forward bar in the 21st century. It was simply the writers being sloppy or not understanding Trek history.
10:23 - #2 (The Destroyed Borg Sphere from First Contact) - In my mind, this episode actually helps explain events that already exist in canon. In Star Trek - The Next Generation S1 E26 "The Neutral Zone" (26-Mar-2364), the Borg have been busy destroying outposts along both sides of the Federation/Romulan "Neutral Zone", we never see the Borg in that episode, just the aftermath. We later learn in S2 E16 "Q Who" (28-Jan-2365) that the Borg was the enemy back in "The Neutral Zone" (Which means if Q hadn't flung the Enterprise to meet the Borg, the Borg would still have tried to assimilate the Federation. Q let them know about the Borg and gave them time to come up with plans to stop the Borg (Ex. The USS Defiant)). The Borg then reappeared in S3 E26 "The Best of Both Worlds - Part 1" (31-May-2366) and S4 E1 "The Best of Both Worlds - Part 2" (05-Jun-2366). While "Q Who" answered questions raised in "The Neutral Zone" the question came up, why was the Borg there? A partial explanation comes in Star Trek - Voyager S4 E6 (11-Feb-2374) in which Tuvok scans the USS Raven (NAR-32450) and tritanium decay places it as being there for almost the last 20 years. Which means 7 of 9 was assimilated around 11-Feb-2354, or 10 years before the events of "The Neutral Zone". But more questions are raised. Her parents had heard whispers about the Borg and had gone to Starfleet to secure a ship (The USS Raven) to find them. Furthermore, they find a Borg ship and follow it from the Alpha Quadrant to the Delta Quadrant. All this means that about 11 years before "Q Who", the Borg had explored Federation space, and assimilated 7 of 9 and her parents. (So those 'fans' who still think Q introduced the Borg to the Federation are once again proven wrong). But it still raised the question, why was the Borg exploring Federation space back in 2354? They had no reason to. When you watch the episodes in order, you notice the Borg are exploring, but not outright engaging in ship to ship battle, unless provoked (By the USS Raven). It's as if they were told to come check out Federation space and they checked it out before sending a ship to assimilate the Federation. Then we take the final piece of the puzzle in Star Trek Enterprise S2 E23 "Regeneration" (01-Mar-2153) as a message is sent from the Borg survivors to the collective in the Delta Quadrant. They explain the message won't get to them for 200 years. Which would be around 01-Mar-2353. The year before 7 of 9 was assimilated. Now the loop is closed and it all starts to make sense. Including why the Borg went back in time. Picard assumed it was to stop First Contact. In reality they had 2 goals (Try and stop First Contact and Send the message to the Borg so they will get the message on 01-Mar-2353 and assimilate 7 of 9)
See you get it, I get it, why don't they get it? Also, it was not the Enterprise-E's fault that the Sphere escaped it was the leaders of the Federations keeping Picard away from the Borg.
@@ashedarke IIRC it was Troi who mentioned 10 Forward in the past instances of All Good Things. Now you wouldn't get much arguement from saying that was just TNG retconning itself, but if you were to ask fellow Trekkies which retcon they are likely to subscribe to the most? Then most would go with TNG explanation rather than the Picard attempts.
@MINKIN2 yeah I had a nose since and yeah there's supposed to be a welcome party there. Presumably Guinan did arrive in time for The Child so god knows who was running it before then?
2 года назад
Yes, it's more likely that Guinan opened her bar on 10 Forward street in the 20th century because of timey-wimey shenanigans related to her El-Aurian perception of time.
I was really disappointed when they showed this in Picard. It was impossible for Guinan to know that the Enterprise would have a deck 10 that had a forward section at the very tip of the saucer of the Enterprise. On the other hand she was written to not know Picard despite that she had previously met him during an earlier time travel in TNG. These two facts just massively contradict one another. Regardless of how you turn it in your head, the more true one is, the less true the other one becomes.
Yeah, it was neat when Picard visits her originally, but it was just dumb that it was the same in the past...Unless the whole thing was an alternate reality created by Q, and none of it mattered, except for Picard's self-reflection.
@@therichuation Well, there are two loose ends in the theory.. Rios and Jurati, but considering Q is involved, any loose ends can be, literally, snapped away.
Damn Im a star trek nerd. For the record. That silver blood species was perfectly capable of living other places than a Demon Class planet. The fatal mistake they made was exposing themselves to radiation created by their modified warp core. They thought they would be fine because the radiation was harmless to humans. It ended up killing them all.
@@MishraArtificer I think it was the oxygen in voyager's atmosphere? Or, was it something in a demon's atmosphere that was missing? Probbably something the writers wouldnt have thought about, but since the silver crew forgot they werent the real deal, wouldnt the silver voyager have a normal human compatible atmosphere, and be hostile to the silver crew? Another thing to think about, the siver blood is sentient, wouldnt that make silver voyager an entity herself?
Speaking of that revelation about all those alpha quadrant species being related because of shared genetic markers, it could have been brought up in "Distant Origins" as a counterargument before the realization that humans and voth shared way more genetic markers than the ones discussed in TNG
The middling episode ‘The Price’ TNG season 3 ends up forming the underpinnings of two spinoffs: the importance of stable wormholes, which leads into DS9, and the idea of being stranded in the Delta Quadrant, which leads to ‘Voyager.’ Plus the Barzans pop up again on ‘Discovery.’ All buried in a ‘Troi gets laid’ episode.
@@dellytancyl524, that scene with him and Riker is also why I think Riker & Troi are a great example of a polyam couple. He was sincerely happy for her to have found someone other than himself.
3 - One minor correction. It was actually the specific radiation emitted by their new experimental warp drive that caused them to break down; they were functioning just fine before that point. It was projected to be harmless to humans and the like, but because they forgot they were made from 'the silver blood', they were unaware of its effects on their specific construction. Since the ship was also made from this mimetic substance, it was affected just as severely. It's actually pretty depressing that the ship and its crew were so completely destroyed, leaving no record of their existence beyond any contact they might have had with other races, but even that would be attributed to the original Voyager crew (though they'd have no memories or record of it, of course).
@@gligman445 I imagine it would have come out after they got home some time, the crew and the ship both would likely have received a very in-depth scan considering their unique situation.
I remember hearing something from one of the show creators of Star Trek Enterprise that all the ships in Star Trek have replicated hulls. The Enterprises NX-01 is old school metal plating and rivets.
@@randallwong7196 To be honest, you don't need to replicate a whole vehicle at once. Just use a regular industrial replicator to replicate it part by part and assemble it.
how else would you repair something in space, carry every part twice with you? in the novells it was always liek this,they call that stuff industrial replicator. AFAIR they were a topic in DS9,the marquis once stole one. DS9 had replicators on the upper deck that couidl replicate "gambling-mashines" large than 1 m in size. and shipsyards have been shown as scaffoldings where you assemble parts,but you never saw industrie were they make the parts.
in the stat sheet for voyager it mentions a replicator that could make more shuttles if needed or repurpose old shuttles and broken equipment into energy.
I like to think the Ancient Humanoids revealed in The Chase eventually evolved into the Changelings/Founders of the Dominion since the Ancient Humanoid and Female Changeling were both played by Salome Jens.
That’s actually a really slack theory. Just because two characters are played by the same actor doesn’t mean they have to linked (pun intended). As it turns out, the common consensus is that the ancient humanoids were the Preservers.
It might be that genetically the Founders were closer to the original genetic code of the ancient ones and therefore resembled them more closely. The time scales involved would allow that, depending on how old the Founders are as a species.
Didn't the silver blood copies of voyager start disintegrating because of a modified warp drive? B'elanna dying first because she was the closest to the earp drive?
With all the time travel, it makes me realize that Guinan - all this time - was carrying some crazy secrets while on the Enterprise in TNG. Imagine working a bar on a ship full of people that you already met multiple times in the past due to them time traveling, and in order to keep things stable, she has to pretend she doesn't even know.
Yup. And when they think that her species experiences time in some mystical way, it's just that she already met their future selves in the past and therefore knows when they are on a branching timeline. Like, if Picard suddently grows hair and she's like "Nope! This wasn't supposed to happen" it isn't because she feels the timeline branching, it's just that next week Picard visits her on the 16th century and he's still bald. "Guinan's people must experience time in a different way" Yeah, you can believe that if it keeps you from asking me stupid questions about your future
I feel like the ten forward thing is just a very, very dumb case of retroactive continuity. Picard did that a Lot, in ways that were very stupid. Or, in the case of Icheb, ways that were kind of funny, because seriously, Manu is a douchecanoe. The show could never decide if it wanted to celebrate Trek's past, or be really quite stupid about it, and while the general feeling in Trek pre-Voyager was that the admiralty was ALWAYS awful, it was a pretty clear analogy to the entire series when the admiral decided to give a full shitslinging to the hero of Sector 001.
what she is ignoring is the fact that the computer has to be sentient to be convinced to disobey a crew members orders when you think about it cause the computer can comprehend consequences to disobey an order to save a prisoner from unlawful execution or dying
If I remember correctly from an episode of Space Docks, a galaxy class ship has a lot of empty space so that it can be modified easily to fit in new labs, areas for the crew and so on. So Ten Forward could have been one of these areas modified.
@@arsenal_616 It says in technical manuals that this area is a forward shuttle bay on some galaxy class ships. If you want to ignore lazy writers you have to ignore Andrew Probert who wrote that... and also designed the ship.
I also recall a recurring character being directed to Ten Forward and, at their confusion, someone (Riker?) does an "of course, Ten Forward wasn't open yet last time you visited the ship."
spot on - if you look at the Michael and Denise Okuda tech manual that came out in the mid or late 90s at some point, they showed how there was more unused space on the ship than one would expect. Vast storage warehouses, and many completely empty cargo bays that could quickly be converted for mass casualty transport, etc. They may have implied in one of the episodes that the "Irish folk" were in some main room, but the reality is there was more than enough space to hide them away in some lower deck of the saucer without any of the command staff having to deal with them (some Ensign or Lieutenant would lead a team to guard them, provide for their needs and wants, etc). There were also (as Lower Decks riffed on so well) "cetacean crew" areas - water filled corridors, etc.
One alternative theory I have about the Borg episode actually addresses an issue with Q's character. In the episode of TNG, Q flings the Enterprise D at the Borg and they now know about the vast new area of assimilation targets from the computer and are headed toward the Alpha Quadrant. With just that information, Q is a pompous arrogant prick who caused the deaths of everyone who died during the conflict with the Borg because Picard wouldn't grovel. With the Enterprise episode, we see that the Borg get a signal off and that they will be alerted to the Alpha Quadrant. That means that they didn't learn about the Alpha Quadrant's population because of the Enterprise D. They were likely already on the way there and Q knew this. Q has shown time and time again that, while his methods may seem chaotic and barbaric, everything that he does is for the betterment of life overall (or at least humanity overall). This didn't mesh with the idea that he would create a conflict with the Borg out of spite but it fits perfectly with the idea that he was warning Picard of what was coming and dressed it up as a lesson in humility. The only issue with this theory that I can find is that the Borg were only on Earth in the past because of the events in First Contact which only happened because Q launched the Enterprise D at the Borg, but that issue is solved by the whole thing being one big temporal loop.
@iron threads3 I would have thought that with his history with the Hur'q and the ferocious Tribbles, Worf's card game of choice would have been, "War."
That Time travel ark in Season 2 of STP is kind of a mess. It has inconsistencies with its own established rules, let alone the continuity errors it has with the established Alpha Timeline, im convinced it was Q just making sh*t up as he went along and wasn't really in same universe as TNG. It setting place in 2024 was clearly to save money by not having to make sets and costumes, so much so they even retconned the sh*t out of the Eugenics Wars among a LOT of other established lore for this era. They just not only didn't know anything about the bare minimum of established lore (including that 10-Forward was named after the section of the ship it was on), they didn't care, its bad writing. Heck, In Season 1 long before she was a part of the crew, its still referred to as 10-Forward. Its called 10-forward because its on Deck 10, Front of the ship. This is almost as stupid as the Han Solo last name debacle. STP is just glorified fan-faction, minus the "fan" part.
9. Industrial replicators are a thing. Have been since the 90s. They came up frequently when talking about emergency support for recovering colonies/planets/societies. 4. Iconion Teleporters could cover 40,000 lightyears.
If I remember correctly, the industrial replicators were able to build large scale stuff but they were less precise and were more like big 3D printers. Mind that before new Trek, replicators were actually recycling molecule printers. Meaning they only created matter from energy when absolutely necessary since even a warp drive does not put out much energy in that scale.
The usage of the Iconian Teleporter was a big plot hole in Picard. Because it was stated explicitly that it was *not* Iconian but instead a Sikarian spatial trajector. This technology was only able to operate by using the quarz mantle of the Sikarian planet as a projection surface. That is why Voyager and the Federation were unable to replicate the technology. It was useless without the planet as projection amplifier.
N0.3 9:50 actual fact is they stated to degrade because of the enhanced warp drive not that the silver blood could not survive off a 'demon' class planet. The enhanced warp drive was non toxic to humans but was to them. They tried to find a 'demon' class planet hoping it would stop the damage.
Thank you! I could have sworn that was why they all died! If only they could have reached Voyager and given them that technology, it sounded like it would have gotten them home so much sooner.
@@BlackMammoth25 it's also really sad, that all their history went away. Think about how much starfleet would have advanced by having a warp drive that can go that quick. But, will be interesting to see somebody tried to compare demon blood voyager route and mission logs from aliens and comparing it to voyager's official course.
Yes Dan! And you have found the second and final item that I've been hiding. Congratulations 🎉 Yeah it is, it's actually Sean's one a stole from his video on it 👍
That's ridiculous the spatial trajector, is more like Iconian tech from TNG. Plus we never learned who the Iconians enemies were. Could it have been the Borg? And the queen took the long range transporter. Which looked identical!
Agreed especially since the Zakarian tech relied on using special naturally occuring instances on their planet hence why the Voyager crew insisted on test it before they left orbit or they would never be able to use it afterwards.
the spatial trajector is similar to Iconian tech yes, but go back and watch Voyager.. its in there.. what that says to me is that this race was just discovering the same physics that the Iconians discovered and had mastered. similar to how many species discovered the warp drive physics. As for the Borg, The Iconians appear to be much more advanced than the Borg. Also, the Iconians were from hundreds of thousands of years ago in the time line, the Borg less than a thousand..
There was a whole time travel two parter in Voyager called Future’s End. This wasn’t the last time travel episode, as there was also Relativity. In both, we see Captain Braxton as the man who wants to destroy Voyager. In the first, he’s under orders because the ship’s hull is found amid a destroyed solar system in the future. In the later episode, he has planted a bomb on Voyager and complains that he blames the ship and crew for some awful life experiences. Another officer does comment that Voyager shows up on sensors too often. This whole thing opens up many questions: at what point does Starfleet start policing the timeline, to what extent did they play a role in the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise and how are they choosing when to intervene or not?
I thought they stated that they were from the 29th century starfleet time peacekeeping corp. Obviously they could have been formed earlier than that. The temporal accords were finalized in 2769 so assume later they'd been 'officially' policing the timelines since then. As for their interaction of the Temporal Cold War I assume they were a large faction dealing with it.
Also interesting, in ENT time spy Daniels mentioned how the temporal cold war had already affected Earth's history as the Xindi attack on Earth was 'never meant to have happened'. Some theorise this is what lead to the Kelvin timeline where Admiral Archer's dog was mentioned.
The funny thing is, time travel was the fault of Voyager crew a few times. And none of those times, the time police showed up. Time and Again Eye of the Needle Timeless Endgame In fact, the only times they did show up to deal with Voyager's time shenanigans were the times when said time shenanigans were Braxton's fault.
In the Naked Now, Data wasn't affected by the intoxication until after the intimacy with Tasha Yar. His being affected didn't lead to the intimacy. The intimacy led to him being infected.
@@KalijahAnderson I love that episode. I'm the editor for this video and episodes like that are filled with brilliant little small bits of acting that are great to use. Much harder to find these moments in more modern Trek. Except with JLP, he's still dynamite 😂
Regarding the Borgpsehere it was a self fulfilling prophecy. Or how do we explain that the Borg ere already on their way towards teh alpha quadrant in the TNG episode where Q transported the Enterprise to the Borg. It all has happend and it all will happen again. ;)
2:00 I don't know what they're telling here but industrial replicators were mentioned multiple times throughout Trek, especially with the Dominion trying to get a foothold on Bajor
I was always curious about the androids and/or robots that they ran into a few times in the original series with captain Kirk was never any follow up On this incredible technology! Data didn't even inquire/ Reference about it?
I edited this video. I actually have a more explicit version where I've taken certain frames of hand gestures from the screen and rejiggered them to something definitely not about sign language. I didn't dare use it in the final thing 😂 in fact Sean is the only one I've shown it to.
1 of the things pointed out in this is the EMH doctors exploration of his humanity & subsequent expansion of his programming. This is a common trope added into Star Trek story arcs. It is the whole Pinocchio man "I wanna be a real boy" story. Spock, Data, Odo, the EMH all have arcs based on this story premise. The reason they continue to do it is it is enduring & absolutely engrossing. What I mean to say is we enjoy watching it unfold!
Fun fact: The message that the Borg send at the end of the Enterprise episode was actually the same message picked up by the collective by the time of First Contact, which prompted the events of the movie.
I don't know why people keep adding Discovery as Star Trek. The creator himself said he didn't care about story and that the show was just a platform for his political views. Discover is as much Star Trek as Space Balls is Star Wars.
It’s things like this 10 Forward origin story that just want me to shake my head. It’s like Star Trek is reminiscing in the past instead of boldly going to create a new future, without having to reinvent existing canon.
I see it as just another Nemesis moment... The Romulans grew a clone Picard! And of all the things we know about Picard (mechanical heart (until Q helped alter time), full head of hair in his academy days, etc, etc...) Let's just invent a new medical disorder for them to share, and make him always bald. 🤦 Give him a copy of Picard's artificial heart (because when he was cloned Picard had one, and the Romulans were sticklers for details in their plots). The Romulans discarded him to the Reman colony after they discovered that Picard's heart was mysteriously no longer artificial. Clone's artificial heart is failing so he sets his sights on harvesting Picard's organic one as it would be a perfect genetic match. And although he would go bald at the same age as Picard, he shaves his head much earlier to fit in (/in solidarity) with his adopted Reman family. There's plenty else wrong with Nemesis, but at least that would make more sense in canon that what they did go with.
I hate the 10 Forward thing. It makes no sense at all. The locations of ten forward was built into the design of the ship and is named after its location. There is no way Guinan could have had any influence over that. They where trying to be a little to clever there
The last one about ten forward, both can be true. She had a bar at ten forward avenue and later she ran the bar at ten forward. When she started (at) the one on the enterprise she might’ve known she was meant to be there.
The Galaxy class is also supposed to have a modular internal structure that allows units to be moved in and out and around with relative ease... it's not like a room in a tower block with fixed supporting walls, it's more like a void full of Great Glass Elevators of various size and shape that can be rearranged as needed, so the comments on the size/shape/intended use of the room is irrelevant.
Shouldn't it be "plot points that are more important than the writers realize". Because that's what it boils down to. Writers write an episode not knowing that the plot point they came up with should have more impact and/or consequences beyond the one episode.
I may be wrong, but I believe the replicators need more than energy, they also need material mass. I seem to remember the replicator use on Voyager being limited to only so much per person and it took more of that measure to replicate something made of gold, a more dense material. Voyager wasn't rationing energy, they had enough to function with al the ship's abilities, but they did not have material or mass on hand to use to be replicated. I also remember there being certain materials that were not able to be replicated. This is because of their specific structure not the amount of energy needed. This is what makes Dilithium Crystals and Latinum worth so much, because unlike gold or platinum they can't be replicated. If it was only a matter of energy then this should not be true. There is also a major flaw in continuity that Guinan looked young in Picard when she looked the same when they met her in San Francisco in 1890's, and she didn't remember Picard even tho she had met him before. This is not a problem if Picard happened in an alternate timeline but so far nothing else has indicated that this is true.
E=mc² The replicators only need energy. Voyager had a problem because it used a unique energy source (not di-lithium crystals), so it had to ration the energy
@@Azven62 when was the "unique energy source" mentioned? I don't recall that and it's one of my favourite series. I know the holodecks were left accessible because their power source was incompatible with the rest of the ship, but I don't recall that ever being a reason for the replicator rations. i just took that as conserving energy (Watsonian explanation) and to drive home the "stranded all alone" aspect (Doylist explanation)
@@therichuation he thinking of the biogel packs, which was not an energy source, but rather a firm of advanced circuitry responsible for Voyager's unique maneuverability.
2:40 the TNG techmanual mentions that Galaxy class starships can build replacement shuttle craft while on deep space asignments and voyager never ran out of standard shuttle craft and even built two delta flyers. 9:50 the enhansed warp drive was what was cousing to degeneration of the ship and crew not being away from the demon class planet.
You guys left out a few things what about the Iconians and their doorways to anywhere technology that Both Picard and Sicko had to destroy? also, the time portals depicted in the episode in all of our yesterdays from TOS? There's the aliens from the 5th dimension from Voyager who turned out to be sentient holograms from a holographic universe the Slaver's Stasis box and the slaver's weapon, I would say is fairly significant since according the Spock a belt found inside a box became the basis for artificial gravity fields on starship. Before that we knew they had Grav plating from Enterprise which sometimes failed. and the fact that Kinglons have always known about time travel and have chosen to NEVER use it. then there's the Kzinti on lower deck, don't those guys eat people and there's a treaty forbidding them from carrying any kind of weapons and yet there is one serving in Starfleet aboard the USS Cerritos If I had the time, i'd do a deeper dive but I just remember these
Course Oblivion never made sense to me, i get the silver blood could copy people but a whole starship along with its matter, anti-matter and dilithium crystals? Not to mention every computer log and program.
I think people are looking for complicated explanations when a simple one like this would suffice, altho I do not personally believe this one. I think it's much more likely that Deck 10: Forward was probably some sort of observation deck or conference room that was converted into a taproom. Voyager also did this out of neccesity altho they did the reasonable thing of converting an already existing mess-hall. With 10: Forward It would be especially easy since, unlike Voyager and the need to install a full kitchen, Enterprise could just use it's replicators. So just replicate a bar to stick in there, replicate in some tables and extra chairs, let Guinan provide all her real liquor to stock the shelves and use the replicators for synthehol or food. Boom, an otherwise boring room with a nice view is quickly and easily converted into the favorite hangout of everyone on the ship.
@@paulwright774 If you build a ship and expect to be there for months if not years on end, you include recreational areas into the design. It would be insane not to have a place to socialize over drinks and snacks, because this how a lot of people wind down and forge/maintain friendships. That would also be a place for people who wouldn't normally run into each other while on duty to to meet and mingle. Which is necessary so crew member can form bonds with people from outside their immediate circle of colleagues. So long story short: I doubt Enterprise left drydock without a taproom.
@@MrAranton Oh I completely agree with you. I'm not trying to suggest that the Enterprise D didn't have such a location or two or three aboard it's literal city-cized structure, It's well known fact that the Enterprise D had all sorts of recreational facilities scattered across it. all I'm suggesting is that if 10: Forward was not already set up to be one, it would not have been hard to convert the space into a taproom.
number 1 is false lore as 10 forward was was already part of the ship before gideon was introduce to the show. it was mentioned twice in two episodes and has already been proven that in picard, 10 farward. ave was a easter egg reference to the mess hall that gideon would become it's bar tender of deck 10 forward mess hall.
Or the bar at 10 Forward Ave served the area for so long that when the Galaxy class was designed, the people in charge of designing the ships put the social rec area on the forward side of the 10th deck as an homage to the place they and the crew frequently visited on Earth. A little piece of home, away from home.
Except it was in Los Angeles. Enterprise D was built at Utopia Planitia - maybe designed there or maybe at Starfleet Headquarters in San Francisco. The designers wouldn't have been hanging out at a bar at 10 Forward Ave LA.
@@garrettrigoni6864 Today, LA and SF are separate distant places. In that timeline however, it's probably just as quick to get between the two as most peoples trip to the local grocer. Though you do have a point about the distance, it does not change the fact that the bar in the past could have had influence on the designers.
7 is an interesting one... what would have happened if a mind meld was attempted on Data? How what that have factored into the "Measure of a Man" episode had it been done? Or worse, if it was found impossible to do on Data?
Well, they established that Soong-type androids could learn to mind-meld, specifically Sutra. With it being established that melds *with* sentient machines were possible by Spock, and the Vulcan nerve pinch was possible to learn by Data and Burnham, it seemed just the next logical step that Sutra, a sentient machine at least as intelligent as Data, could learn to mind-meld with other lifeforms (I know a lot of fans particularly disliked that, but I found it no more out-there than anything else in Trek). So, its plausible that were a Vulcan present, they likely could have mind-melded with Data. Now, the writers were unlikely to go in that direction. There was a reason there was so few Vulcans on the Enterprise-D - Roddenberry didn't want to rehash old aliens, and was even opposed to Worf being a character for that very reason.
@@chasethevioletsun9996 Yet in TOS "The Devil in the Dark", TAS "One of Our Planets is Missing" and TMP, Spock initiates mind melds without physical contact. From what he says in "Devil", touch is only necessary for deeper, more intimate melds.
@@shibolinemress8913 Inconsistencies? In my Star Trek? Why I never! :) At any rate, I went back and checked, and Troi apparently *could* sense Julianna Tainer, else she, you know, might have mentioned it. So evidently, more advanced Soong-type androids *do* have a psychic presence. Just not Data. Its plausible to me that Data may have developed a psychic presence after the installation of the emotion chip, but obviously that was never explored in on-screen canon.
I think I can speak for EVERY TRUE TREKKIAN.... The Voyager episode "Threshold" should be DELIBERATELY & PERMANENTLY LOST. If deliberately & permanently doesn't work, then I suggest ACCIDENTALLY ON PURPOSE!!! "Threshold" has to be THE WORST episode of ANY Star Trek franchise! If you doubt that statement, then I challenge you to name an episode from any Star Trek show that WAS worse.... The "speed limit" episode of TNG? The Uni-mind Bajorans that were NEVER mentioned again? The first two seasons of Enterprise? ALL FOUR jj abrams films? And just to be fair, TOS had some pretty bad episodes... The overcrowded planet, The space hippies, the planet where the water turned you into the flash, Kirk switching bodies with a woman (I'm surprised he didn't make a pass at himself.) The only way to get me to willingly watch "Threshold" is to strap me to a chair (so I can't get to the remote). give me an espresso I.V. & CUT OFF MY EYELIDS!!!
The Enterprise D was designed to be completely modular meaning entire sections of the ship could be removed and replaced to suit different missions. It is entirely possible that the 10-Forward bar was just a module that had been designed well after the rest of the ship was built.
Well that would make sense of how the windows of Ten Forward did not exist in season 1 of TNG and when the new 'bar module' was installed the windows appeared!!
@@erictaylor5462 if she was on the E, she would've had a 'bad feeling' about being in the bar (if the E had one) and would've have been somewhere else (I imagine!).
@@harvey1965 Well, we know that she was still alive after this as Picard visited her years after his retirement. There we discover that her bar, "10 Forward" had nothing to do with the bar being on Deck 10 in the front of the ship. The bar was named after Guinan's bar on Earth in San Francisco, located at "10 Forward Street"
I think Voyager had a vehicle replicator, that is where all their extra shuttles came from. It just wasn't big enough for the Delta flier. The special effects budget wasn't big enough to show us, like the Aero shuttle.
For the 10 Forward thing, it's also possible someone mentioned the name of the Bar in the TNG episode that sent them back to the past and met the Guinan native to that period in time. Perhaps making it more of a little note that she did know who Picard was...
Yahshua - you know Him as Jesus - was born to a virgin, turned water to wine, taught, healed the sick, raised the dead, casted out demons, walked on water, calmed the storm, and fed a crowd of thousands with a few fish and a few loaves of bread, among many other things. He was killed on the cross as payment for the sins of all mankind, three days later He rose from the dead. Forty days later He ascended into heaven where He sits at the right hand of the Father. He is returning very soon, but before He does, Satan, the devil, is coming to pretend to be Jesus/God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4). Satan is an angel, and he will have certain supernatural powers with which to try to fool everyone. He will, for example, be able to make fire come down from heaven in the sight of men. He will only be on earth a short time before the real King of Kings, Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, returns. When the real Jesus comes we will all be transformed into our spiritual bodies at the same moment. Jesus came in the flesh to offer forgiveness of sins and eternal life to anyone who believes and calls on His precious name! if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper, There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat. But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste? For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always. For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial. Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her. - Matthew 26:6-13 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.... To anoint your self, the sick, or a building for spiritual protection: Get a small bottle of olive oil and pour off a small amount into a smaller vessel like a vial or baby food jar. Use the rest of the bottle for cooking. Ask the Lord to bless your vial of oil in Jesus name. Anoint yourself with the oil by placing a dab of oil on tip of finger and touch it to your forehead, and ask the Lord to bless you/heal you. Place a dab of oil on your finger and anoint the door posts and order all negativity and evil out of the house, and order that nothing negative or evil can enter into your home including piggybacking on a person entering, order it to be so in the name of Jesus. Anoint all potential entrances to your home. To anoint the sick, place oil on tip of finger and touch it to the head of the sick and say a prayer of healing over them in Jesus name. See James Chapter 5:14-15......,,,...,,,
What always amazed me is how people kept "catching up" to voyager even with voyagers high speed, but even the slowest enemies catch them up with very little effort.
that's an easy explanation.. it's because Voyager kept stopping to explore every last speck of space dust they ran across.. Also, star trek frequently explains that at least for the Federations, they cannot maintain maximum warp for very long.. their cruising speed is actually much lower than their maximum so if they are cruising more often than not, and stopping to look at every comet and last little thing they find, its easy to understand how others catch up to them if they have no interest in exploration, just a single minded goal of catching voyager. And eventually, Voyager does get far enough out, different species give up because they do not have the speed or range to continue.
@@jeseod in addition to stopping so often, and not being able to maintain top speed another huge alpha quadrant realization from TNG was that warp drives especially at higher factors were devastating to subspace. While Voyager was designed to be less damaging, all federation vessels were restricted to even lower speeds then mechanically necessary... with only starfleet captains being aloud to break those rule in times of crisis.
@@stephennemeth7623 I do imagine Starfleet would be ok with Janeway running a few red lights being so far away from home.. also, I may be wrong but I thought the speed limit was only in a certain region of space, not the whole galaxy.. I’m going to rewatch that tonight bc I’m curious now.. to heck with my med school paper…
@@jeseod my recollection is scientists were studying a particular high traffic area and found that high warp was tearing up subspace like trucks and ATVs in a field... curious what you found rewatching it though.
What amazed me was how, no matter how many multiples of the speed of light the ship was supposed to be going, the writers would have Tom Paris report some anomoly "ten thousand kilometers off the port bow" without anyone ever explaining to them that at such speeds Voyager would have blown past it before he even opened his mouth.
So many Star Trek mistakes >.< Like borg freeze in the polar zone of Earth but not directly in space itself. The whole Gainan thing in Picard made me wonder why she was so forgetful of the crew meeting her in the 1800s.
space insulates, so you don't actually freeze very quickly in space. most heat is lost from contact with air or water, but in the vacuum of space there is no direct contact with anything.
The Borg didn't exactly freeze in the ice. After all, they did reactivate when they got warm again. I gather the crash landing knocked them out them out so they went into a regenerative mode. By the time the would have regenerated enough to reactivate they were encased in ice and unable to do anything about it so they went into some sort of hibernation mode waiting to be thawed out.
That vehicle replicator could explain how Voyager managed to get through so many shuttles when it should have ran out of them sometime around season 2 😂
Any ship capable of replicating enough new hull plating to look pristine all the way to the end is capable of replicating shuttle parts. Just a matter of allotting time and resources, and most certainly not standard procedure intended to be done on Intrepid class ships. The biggest issue I could possibly see is the fuel (antimatter can't be replicated, deuterium's hard to make) being put into them and being blown up, straining Voyager's main reserves, but it may also have saved a bunch because a shuttle needs less than taking entire Voyager everywhere.
Wish you guys would stop treating events from Discovery and Picard as canon. That ethical programming crap was nothing else than plot armor to allow their main protagonist to escape. There have been plenty of instances throughout the series where shields did not magically open a hole, in itself impossible, to allow a prisoner to escape. Also, Paris didn't go past warp 10, there is nothing beyond, 10 is infinite velocity. Jesus, wish you'd stop taking anything from Discovery and Picard seriously, ten forward really was named because it was located on deck 10, forward section. The location in Picard was a stupid attempt of the showrunners to make an easter egg.
The Guinan thing was just... slop. She doesn't have just "time sensing powers", she has "time _line_ sensing powers." Despite the fact that, in that particular timeline, she wouldn't have met Picard in the 1800s, she would still have been aware that she _should have_ known him, as per the capabilities she demonstrates in "Yesterday's Enterprise" when she knows that the timeline is wrong.
"Despite the fact that, in that particular timeline, she wouldn't have met Picard in the 1800s...." What are you talking about?!? Yes, in that same timeline they met in the late 1800s. Give me a break. What's sad and shocking is that mysteriously she doesn't remember Picard in the 21st Century, but she certainly did remember him in 24th Century prior to boarding the Enterprise D and educated him about that fact prior to him traveling back to the 19th Century in the two-part episode you're referencing. The writers messed up big time on that one!
0:28 Lose sight of the what ... act like you're talking about a movie. Ever consider leaving some plot lines up in the air builds drama and makes it possible to bring them in and out of the main story line as needed (ever see a soap opera). Also I can tell you didn't watch this series as you really don't get this shows way of doing an episode in general. It's kind of like a mystery story and you get enough clues to figure it out by the time it plays out. If you can do that. Sometimes the stories are pretty tricky. That is part of it. You found/formed a quick opinion. Figured you could breed toxic and make a buck. Your misguided editing and shallow opinion diminishes. Leave this to people that understand it. You don't see me creating a video on how to weld just because I can make a video. I would do nothing but a stubble around making off assumptions. Just like you did here. If you wish to be a influencer try not to be sowing seeds of disinformation. That would make you a bad influence-r. I also made sure to stop watching so not much credit for doing some crying and editing of other people's real work. I made it 1/2 way and could take the stupidity any more.
Guinan met Data, Picard, Riker, La Forge, Troi, and Crusher in 1893, and Data explained their future meeting. Thus she may have been aware that she will run a bar in Ten Forward on the future, thus specifically selecting the bar on earth for it's peculiar location.
@iron threads3 Or yes, you could just say "I love star trek, except TOS, VOY, DS9, the start of TNG, all of the new stuff...there's like 3 good episodes I guess" 🤡
I've been subscribed for a couple years and I have referred my friends here we love all the stuff you do. Thanks keep coming up with great ones we will always be here.
10 Forward WAS named for the Enterprise D Deck ten, forward. Not becasue of some bar. Remember Picard is a non-canon series, so anything shown on the show is not correct.
The 10 Forward reference in Picard doesn't mean a thing. They're just hack writers tossing out the 'member berries. There's no larger significance behind it at all. Just the total lack of the skill and creativity to appeal to the established Trek fan base in any other way. It's utterly depressing that as terrible as it is Picard is actually the second best Trek offering of the post Enterprise era.
9:39 felt weird though because they wanted to stay there and were granted permission by janeway to stay back on the planet. These were really important moments for them. Still they forgot that. No idea how the mud was also able to duplicate voyager though. Everyone forgot everything ?! Went aboard and left the planet ?! Did anyone actually decided to stay behind here as well like inn one episode where some of the crew decided to stay behind ? Not to mention what happened to that crew was also never mentioned again, yet. Maybe the person who got transformed into creatures like janeway and tom paris was from that planet trying to get home ??
The question I have is why only one duplicate Voyager crew? Maybe they multiplied into thousands and some decided to leave. Maybe dozens or even hundreds of duplicate Voyagers in a fleet.
@@Foolish188 well we don't know how many times they duplicated. We only know that they were duplicated oonly one time which decided to stay on the planet and that too another duplicate voyager ship. We only saw that same crew back in space after forgetting they were supposed to stay on the planet and were duplicated. On this it is assumed that they were duplicated one time based on how many duplicate experiments we saaw in that episode
It the original episode, the copies thought they were actually The original people, because the copy included memories. That nature of the copy might have reasserted itself later.
@@AlexandarHullRichter true. But did nobody out of 120 to 130 odd people realize if that was the case then how were they still on that planet ? Or they were in a faze or fog all of a sudden, got onto the duplicate ship and left the planet thinking that the other voyager crew might be the dupliacte one
@@AlexandarHullRichter also actually what had happened in it ? Did they try to go back first only to realize they are too far away so that started to look for voyager or they decided to contact voyager first, only to be disintegrated when almost making contact again ?
2:30 WRONG... DS9 did it first... INDUSTRIAL replicators were first mentioned in the episode about Risa.. and then again for the planet Bajor to be used in the farming provinces.. these HUGE replicators were meant for creating large industrial equipment.. last time I looked.. farming equipment WAS HUGE.. way bigger than some piddly little comic book store buggy..
Did you watch the episode? They specifically talk about industrial replicators in that segment, but explain that they don't know how much energy they use so they might not be useable on starships.
I think Gene R had a quote like. if you could build a fleet at the touch of a button....then you would not need to build that fleet...something like that.
The video mentions that industrial replicators were talked about before. The writer's point is that we don't know what industrial replicators made, but this is the first time we've seen them make anything and this one is specifically making vehicles. The other ones may have been making large components, or maybe they were just producing on an industrial scale. Following the theme of the video you could say that the mentions of them in DS9 foreshadowed what was seen in Prodigy. But it seems like Marcus's point is that the ones in DS9 were not capable of doing what we saw in Prodigy, hence it's an evolution of technology.
There was a complaint about that because they were giving 4 industrial replicators to Cardassia. It's what Eddings stole when he went over to the Marquee. Their used for heavy construction.
I lost it when you juxtaposed Data being "fully functional" with him learning a sign language. Damn, Data... those are all gestures for sex positions??
What I can't understand or forgive is that in "Star Trek: Picard" Guinan doesn't know who Picard is in the 21st Century in L.A., but that's impossible because they actually met more than a hundred years earlier in San Francisco. Guinan should've known exactly who Picard was the second he walked into her bar! I'm not convinced that the writers completely forgot about that two-part episode from TNG either because they seemed to capitalize on the fact that we (as the viewers) would not question Guinan's presence on Earth in the 21st Century since we already learned of her presence there in the 19th Century during the original TNG series.
Alternate timeline "evil" Picard never went back in time and saved Guinan's life so from her perspective, no they never met. Only Picard and friends had their memories protected from the changes in the timeline. Remember Q changed history from 2024 forward.
Looks like no one really remembers the Iconians. The concept of long distance transporter technology did appear in both Star Trek The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine. Long story short, there was an alien race called Iconians that developed a means of travel where someone could instantly transport from one point in space to another regardless of distance. Picard and his crew encountered it in the Alpha Quadrant and Sisko and his crew encountered it in the Gamma Quadrant. In a way, I guess its information like this that really shows who is a true follower of Star Trek and who is not.
I'd rather see Whoopi with some extra makeup. Or do the same thing they did for Kevin flynn/clu. It's like nobody who works on any modern Trek (except lower decks) is even a fan of Star Trek
To be completely honest, Whoopi looks considerably older today than she did during the TNG run. Even with heavy make-up, I don't think they could ever make her look as young as she was before. That said, though, why did they shoot the scene in 2024 where she and Picard meet with her NEVER realizing she met this man over a hundred years earlier? Moreover, Picard didn't seem to bother reminding her of that fact either but wasted a lot of time simply trying to convince her that he was just a trustworthy human from the future that knew about her race being alien. REALLY???
Just remember, in her message to be played in case of death. Tasha did tell Data it did happen. It might have been more to assure him he did nothing wrong by misreading her words on "it didnt happen" but perhaps she was just embarrased and Data hadnt grown enough to deal with that sort of emotion yet.
When the virus was healed she specifically told Data that "nothing has happened". I always read that message as he freeing Data from that request of never talking about their short intimate relationship.
If I dont buy into the Kelvin timeline then why would I care or even watch Discovery??? or the others... Am I the only one??? This is a well produced and voiced video as well as being very professional and I tip my cap but if I may ask....Why cant we just stick to the "actual" cannon of Trek I.E. before the B.S. where they decided to rewrite the entire lore of Star Trek.
That scene with the ethical computers shows how far out of touch from the source material. Since the computer is used when firing weapons it is taking lives whether offensively or defensively. Second why would the federation allow such a huge error in a system that would put all members of a ships crew in danger since the computer can be swayed to release a prisoner. Plus they ripped her going thru space out of the Starwars movie. This just goes to show that the writers are truly worthless when it comes to haven original thoughts. Plus the fact that the writers have made both gender and race more important then it should be. Please stop with all the crap and come up with some original material that is enjoyable to watch as opposed to the tripe the serve us now. If you are unable to be original then quite since you are a detriment to society qas a whole and would serve the human race more by giving a shotgun a blow job.
"ethical logic computing"... This is why I can't stomach discovery. Star trek has gone straight into magic fantasy. That's so goddamn universe breaking.
The Enterprises' ten forward would have been a socal gathering place due to the view it provides. It could have just as easily been split up into senior officers quarters, or the bridge.
The bar was named Ten Forward because of what happened in Generations. Guinan coming into contact with the Nexus...a point in contact with all points in time (remember Guinan telling Picard he could leave it and go to any point he wanted?). The Nexus is like traveling at warp 10...at warp ten you touch all points in the universe simultaneously...infinite speed. In the Nexus, you touch all points in time simultaneously...infinite knowledge of time and it's flow. The limit then becomes the traveler...how much can you retain? How much can you understand? In Guinan's case she kept quite a bit and it seems to have stayed with her in present, future AND past.
That first one was such a stupid solution! She had no air,she started to freeze,and she had no way to stop her momentum! The computer should have just beemed her to another cell in a safer area!
The Demon Class Voyager crew thing was full of holes. The crew could only survive in their own atmosphere. Surely they would have noticed that on their own. Also, when transporting/shuttling down to any planet with different air, they would have suffered or died regardless of the of their own enhanced warp drive
