Hi there, TrekCulture. I remember when Into Darkness was in production. And mention was made of Khan, and the fans world-wide actually groaned and wished HARD to leave the original TWOK the hell alone. The producers promised us time and again that they would not do a remake of TWOK. Simply put, we fans were outright betrayed. So don't put this "be careful what you wish for" stuff on us. We fought *against* that story arc. This is a case study in what happens when the studio gives the fans exactly what they DIDN'T ask for.
That was the first time I've heard of JJ Abrams and I wasn't impressed but I knew when he got ahold of Star Wars a few years later that would be a complete mess also because at the 8.5 minute mark of The Force Awakens I knew that movie was going to be trash as well as anything after it that he had anything to do with.
@@williammitchell4417 *always wanted to see a klingon juggling tribbles at a comi-con ...i'm sure someone has done it by now...a friend of mine has friends who once attended a convention dressed as a tribble hunter with a Triton that impaled tribbles in it...*
It was amazingly well done, even today the effects, the blending of camera/film graininess to match the 60's, is just beautiful and the way they went about filming an episode on top of another, it still blows my mind how they did it on a budget for a tv series
DS9 producers wising up and allowing Avery Brooks to shave his head. And with the start of season four fans finally got the Benjamin Sisko we deserved. By letting loose the “Hawk” Sisko cranked up the cool level to “11”.
Stamots and Dr. Culper are also one of the first couples shown serving in Starfleet together, both officers on the same ship, sharing quarters as a married couple. We saw background crew characters in TNG being married, and we even saw Kirk preside over a wedding in TOS, but Disco has two major officers and regular main characters in both a long-running personal relationship and at the same time working major positions, with risks and responsibilities, each having to worry about the other being in the path of whatever adventure was getting thrown at them that week.
Also O'Brien and Keiko, which had the distinction of being and inter-racial couple too. And they really played up their personal culture clash. I love that Stamets and Culper are just people. It's so refreshing.
So you mean constitution class being called Starship Class, the Enterprise having no idea where its Engineering is, Connies capping at 250 crew, warp 10 being achieved and no WWIII, got it. (For context, in Gene Roddenberry’s original vision for TOS, there was no WWIII, humans escaped nuclear annihilation)
I feel like Strange New Words itself should be on this list. We cried about Star Trek gettings darker and darker, and episodes not being self contained stories. They "fixed" both.
@@JimiLaPointe To be fair, in this case the crying was louder than usual and oddly enough we all seemed to agree. I would also add that the pacing of Discovery (and Picard to a lesser extent) for example leaves no time to let characters just do their thing and be themselves. The dry dock episode in SNW was awesome because we got to see how each character deals with free time and life outside a mission.
Not all of us have an issue with the supposedly "darker" series or season long story arcs. That said, Strange New Worlds is a delight and an example of brilliant casting, great stories and fun characters (both old legacy ones and new faces)
It wasn't even so much crying i think, it was more that nearly everybody just love Anson Mount as Captain Pike and they just really wanted to have more with him and Spock and No.1
The saving of season 3 gave them enough episodes to go into syndication, and that's what saved Star Trek, exposing it to new generations of viewers like me, watching after school before the parents came home and ruled the channel changer. And that makes it #1 on the list.
Speaking of the sudden conflict with the Klingons... I was a teenager in high school when DS9 was airing and I had actually missed the first hour+ of "Way of the Warrior". (It originally aired as a 2 hour episode.) I turned my TV to that channel anyway because they usually aired TNG (or was it Voyager?) after that. I turned it on just in time to watch Worf advising Sisko about cloaked Klingon warships nearby, lying in wait. This was the episode that made me a true DS9 fan, and I never missed another one after that. What a ride!!!
Speaking of Lincoln Enterprises... I bought an authorized copy of a TNG script directly from Majel Barrett Roddenberry at a 1992 convention in California. Recently ran across the photo I took of her with her big floppy hat on. Marvelous.
The original scripted ended for Star Trek (2009) was Spock Prime playing a message to him from Kirk. The message emphasized their friendship and the need for more exploration of the galaxy because of the wonders waiting to be found. Wish they had included that
Doesn't surprise me some unstable nut jobs did this. In one of Shatner's biographies he talks about filming those scenes and Malcom would be taunting him and joking around set about how he's going to kill Kirk, so this would be all these basement dwellers would need to trigger them.
I remember initial fan reaction to TNG was about as loved as a cargo hold full of Tribbles on a Klingon ship! "How DARE they make Star Trek without Kirk and Spock!!" was the main outcry! I was stubborn! I wasn't "converted" until the second season's "The Measure Of A Man"!
I agree, that was around the 20th Anniversary and The Voyage Home was about to be released. The announcement made the nightly news on the major networks, which was a huge thing at the time.
I would have thought, that getting Strange New Worlds would be number 1. Already when people saw the Enterprise, Pike, Spock and Number One on Discovery, there was a massive tidal wave of posts online from people, that they would LOVE to finally get the lost series about when Pike commanded the Enterprise. And then some time later all of a sudden that video with Anson Mount, Ethan Peck and Rebecca Romijn showed up with the "We heard, we listened...." and now here we are finally having gotten the lost series.
my favorite moment in the episode when Dax is seriously considering getting back with her/his ex and damn the consequences is when Sisko tells Dax that if, after weighing the pros and cons she still decides this is what she wants to do that he will "back her all the way" is when I fell in love with DS9
Bjo Trimble's letter writing campaign not only ensured a third season, but it ensured there were enough episodes for the show to go into syndicated reruns. Those reruns that aired for years after the show's cancellation is what started to make Star Trek popular.
Too bad the third seasons wasn't as good as the first two seasons or we may have gotten a fourth season, a lot of those episodes are pure cringe. Fortunately, they did the job putting the series over the minimum number of episodes to get it in syndication and keep on life-support until the movies started.
@@JohnFourtyTwo I think that the studio just wanted to get the fans off of their backs on this, so they just created a "meh" season to shut us up. Fortunately, the fans had a lot more perseverance and we got the "Enterprise" name on the first space shuttle, the conventions and the subsequent new series and movies! 😁
I absolutely _LOVED_ Lower Decks take on Captain Riker. Especially his jazz version of "engage..." "Ensign; take us to warp 5, 6, 7, 8!" (I mean, there have been "serious," by Hollywood standards, conversations about what is going to be the hip new version of Picard's "engage." Pike has "hit it." But the jazz is just primo.)
I think that’s a personal view; I watched Star Trek (TOS) back in the 1960s, when the Klingons looked like Teddy Boys), a far better look than the Klingons in far later series, when they ended up looking as though they’d got melted Mars Bars on their foreheads, but again it’s personal choice.
How about 10 times they were horrible to us? They killed Data! they detached the warp nacelles! they killed Jadzia! They didn't leave Harry Kim in the Delta Quadrant by mistake! (that one's just for me)
Well, there was technically 'a' Harry Kim left in the delta quadrant, when Voyager was split in two through some phase-shifted thingamybob, one version of Kim was blown out into space, the other transferring from one Voyager to the other, along with baby Naomi Wildman, so, he's there, dead in space, floating alone, forever left as an Ensign... :P
I must be about the only person who liked Nemesis from 2002. I didn't see it at the time, but having watched it a few times in the last decade, I actually like it.
@@freedanzero1078 I agree. I liked they way they closed out on Picard, with the turbo lift doors closing on him like a curtain. Fitting, since I think Encounter at Far Point opened on Picard with the turbo lift doors opening like a curtain. Curtains, since he was a Shakespearean actor.
I prefer "Nemesis" over "insurrection". The latter felt like a 2 part episode, but not in a good way. Though I'll admit that the buggy-chase was pretty fun.
While DS9 had a fun ol' time with the mirror universe, I love Enterprise's two parter so, so much! Discovery, which is a show I do love, unfortunately overdid the mirror universe and I am kinda hoping it's not explored again.
@@johnchedsey1306 I know its down to personal taste, but I loved Discovery's Mirror Universe. It was over the top, campy and violent - which was immensely entertaining for me. The fact all the cast seemed to enjoy playing their opposite persona characters added to that. The season 3 double part episode was the highlight of the season for me, seeing just how much scenery the actors could chew.
Agree... in a mirror Darkly is one of my all-time favorite episodes, including the Fantastic introduction and music. Pure gold. As a matter of fact I thought the entire Enterprise series was phenomenal, very disappointed it did not continue.
You could have added in the likes of fan campaigns that got Garak to be a more major character instead of just a few episodes' side-man which he was originally intended to be.
I loved the gay relationship of discovery. No in your face look at us we are gay. Just a normal loving couple. Made me cry a few times cause they cared so much for each other.
@@williammckinney4090 A lot of people complained that the Raffi/Seven relationship felt like it came out of nowhere (allegedly the showrunners saw the two of them standing together at some presser and just said, "YES. THAT.") but their relationship banter was the absolute highlight of _Picard_.
yeah they finally learned almost 60 years later. Much like TOS did with Nichelle Nichols, and George Takei, have it them there organically (as if it's just normal part of ship life). Don't do these cringe scenes, that end up feeling like it's just a good PR scene.
Good Morning Sean, YES DS9 bringing Worf over was Great I think the BEAST TRIBUIT WAS seeing Koloth, Kang and Kor THE DAHAR MASTERS so good to see the same actors revive their characters
I fully support LGBTQ (i don't know the full abbreviation) rights and I'm all for their representation and inclusion in all media. However, How you do it is important. If You want it to be treated like anyone else, it has to be depicted as such. Several shows and movies seem like they're trying to beat you over the head with it(looking at you CW Supergirl). But others like CW's "The Flash" and "The 100" treated it perfectly in my opinion. Regardless of anyone's opinion about Sulu in particular being among the aforementioned media representations, the way it was SHOWN is what should matter and to me it seems like 2009 Star trek and DIS did it right.
Takei later made peace with Pegg and Cho. Recognized Pegg's point that bringing on a new LGBTQIA character would have been tokenism and that the decision to depict Sulu in a homosexual relationship was not about *him*. Also it might not even be a retcon--no reason Prime Sulu couldn't have married a woman just because Kelvin Sulu married a man.
Problem is Star Trek isn't in a bubble, it exists in our time as viewers. It kind of has to hit the audience over the head with it due to the problematic way society still treats our community. Subtly can be great, but if you're too subtle it will go over the heads of a lot of people. That being said I do thing for the most part Star Trek has handled it quite well. Two gay men in a marriage is just part of the story, no explanations needed. Non-binary characters need a little explaining because most people are still stuck in the gender binary mentality, but even then its a single sentence and everyone moves on. Heck, Gray is never stated to be trans at all (neither is Angel). And if people dislike it then that really is on them - get with the times, learn a little humanity and pay attention. Star Trek has been moralising modern society for 55 years now, so it can't be a surprise when it keeps doing it!
I loved how Stamets and Culber never felt forced, they're just another couple trying to navigate through the world together. Stamets is my favorite character in Discovery.
I loved how normal they act in Series , this feels real and the most common in a modern future setup that same sex relationship a daily thing. A loving couple with daily problems. Also wonderful portrait in The orville
Schitt’s Creek did a good job as well. I’m straight personally, but it’s nice to see that kind of loving portrayal and I can respect the writers going that route. Even my super conservative but Trek fan mom has no issue with it, which surprised me, but both Stamets and Hugh are great characters.
One thing I remember is Star Trek speaking out against the abandonment and mistreatment of injured veterans in society. I wish the U.S. did a better job of that in 2022.
To be honest when Picard used his authority to give Seven a field commission of captain and command of the Stargazer at the season finale of the second season. I keep wishing for a new Star Trek show starring Jeri Ryan as Seven of Nine, captain of USS Stargazer.
Culber and Stamets relationship is one of the most beautiful on screen. Me and my wife are rooting for them since the beginning. We laugh, cry and suffer with them. The script and the actors are amazing and to this day, they are the only same sex couple that we feel in love with.
The "Riker to the Rescue" bit felt like a bait and switch; I thought you were going to discuss the Lower Decks Season One finale, the TRUE Riker to the Rescue moment 😁
Really. I thought I was the only one that Liked that ending. Riker to the rescue; seems plausible. And no one gives a better dressing-down than Riker. Jellico then, Oh now. "Nothing would please me more than you giving me and excuse to kick your treacherous Tal-shir ass". :)
The LGBTQIA+ community was also represented in TNG when Riker fell for that asexual being who was then "fixed" later with proper treatment. I thought it was a good representation of how certain organizations still try to "pray the gay away". Putting the mirror up for all to see how this ridiculous practice is more harmful than helpful. This is an honorable mention as the actor was played by a woman, though the thought of having a male actor for the character was discussed.
A bungled gay allegory that became a far more effective trans allegory as the years went by. My biggest problem with it, though, is that it portrays conversion "therapy" as effective.
@@Seal0626 I can see both sides of that. On the one hand, the series inadvertently suggests that conversion "therapy" works, a belief which is both false and dangerous. On the other hand, it allowed for a truly horrific ending, in which we see that the "cure" isn't a cure at all, but the destruction of the "patient's" personality-- a good metaphor for the fact that being gay or trans is an integral part of a person, and not just some a "lifestyle" that can be changed at will.
@@waltonsimons12 oh yes, I hope everyone comes away from it with the visceral feeling that it wasn’t supposed to end like that. Trouble is I've heard of at least one family where the parents' takeaway was "See, it works. They _can_ be made straight.".
Your #1 entry on this list I think should get some notice. How Discovery portrays Paul Stamets and Hugh Culber in the series seems natural simply because they're portrayed as just a couple, not a gay couple. They just happen to be two guys who are in a relationship, going about life as any couple would do (other than being on a starship). I think this overpowers other portrayals in Trek (even with Dax) as well as other television series because it's not a forced narrative for equality, It's a more natural representation.
I finally caved in and watched Discovery. When I saw the Stamets and Culber characters, not once did I think "they're gay!" All I saw was a couple who really loved each other. And I found myself looking these characters more and more. I soon stopped watching Discovery when I realized the main character was a rogue idiot with a chip on her shoulders and getting away with breaking so many rules. But that's another rant for another day.
Worf going to ds9 made a huge difference. Before that it could have been Babylon 5 for all I cared… after Worf I never missed an episode and named my first son Elim and my first daughter Ezri.
that is as close to an apology as you will get from a network/film producer. I think CBS knew fans were sour about the abrupt and somewhat unceremonious end of Data in Nemesis (which is the source of most of the hate for that movie), so they gave Data a far more fitting end, to such a beloved Character.
An honorable mention should be the bevy of non main cast actors from the original series, movies and the TNG era returning to reprising their roles one more time. From the OG Klingons, John Colicos, William Campbell and Michael Ansara to the Star Trek punk, Kirk Randolph. Even in Lower Decks, side characters that would otherwise be forgotten giving fans an extra treat. The fans love some consistency in their characters.
Kind of wondering what Lower Decks will do for an episode to poke at Strange New Worlds. Thinking something along the lines of an alien race that is literally a bit nuts, in an episode called Strange New Squirrels? Nah.. probably a stupid idea, but IMHO it would just be too tempting to make the episode title play a joke with the series name.
They could easily retcon that copy-paste starship scene with a shot explaining it was a trick. Starfleet developed holographic decoy tech (like in VOY) and the reason it was the same ship is it’s still experimental. I’ll take that pay check now Paramount.
The thing that struck me about the visit to the Rikers: Riker is is trying so hard, but the pain in that house is still palpable. And it made me feel so sad for Deana.
I have been thinking lately that Anson Mount might have singlehandedly saved modern Star Trek. While I think some "criticisms" of Discovery are just people who live to complain and whine and moan, the first season wasn't great and they definitely needed to rethink their approach to subsequent seasons. And it is understandable the S1 of Disco was rocky, since Bryan Fuller left and behind the scenes stuff suggests there was some scrambling to salvage the show. Bringing in Anson Mount as Captain Pike and allowing him and Ethan Peck's Spock to "soft debut" Strange New Worlds was just damned brilliant. Disco S2 is an utter delight, with their escape to the far future being a brilliant way to soft reboot the series. For the record, I was just fine that Picard S1 wasn't a TNG reboot. I enjoyed it immensely. And of course, Picard S3 should be a blast!
Discovery had one fatal flaw from the beginning, which has pretty much been fixed now. They wanted to make a junior officer (or ex-officer, as they ended up with) the main character. Which sounds good on paper until you realize that in a serious drama (unlike Lower Decks' comedy) they shouldn't be making decisions of any consequence on a regular basis, and frequently should spend the entire "episode" watching over the #3 phaser bank crew (or some other duty far-removed from the action). Seasons 1 and 2 they resorted to Dues Ex Machina mechanisms to keep her in the center of the plot. And it was a mess for it.
Imo discovery should have ended with season 2. I think the mystery of what happened to discovery is more tantalising than the snooze fest that was season 3 and 4. I'm not saying that the story and plot were bad but there was so much padding. It felt like very little happened in each episode. The entirety of season 3 could have been a great 2 part season opener. Now with snw being episodic I feel like I have a complete story every week. But I would very much like an epic 2 parter
I had such high hopes for Discovery... Finally, some new Star Trek! Then it turned out to be a messy soap opera filled with melodrama, whispered dialog and crying. I watched the first four seasons with increasing disappointment, but I will not suffer through any more. They took a brilliant concept and turned into rubbish. Thankfully, Strange New Worlds gives me the old Star Trek fix I've been missing. And Lower Decks is flat-out brilliant!
Sending Worf to DS9 was only part of the equation. in TNG, Klingons as a whole, while projected to have a rich history and heritage, never really got a lot of screen time and mentions beyond Worf's anecdotes. In DS9, the Klingon Heritage got a LOT of air time, especially during the Dominion War. Plus, seeing Worf command the Defiant was a huge step in the right direction for his character arc, especially after helping talk down a ship of Klingons in hibernation since the TOS Klingon War pre-treaty. DS9 quietly became the best Trek series because of their character development
One thing I've kind of headcanoned regarding the "Copy-paste" fleet, is that the fleet is not actually as big as what was shown.... because a bunch of them are probably holograms. Sorta like what Voyager did in Basics Part 1. (I think that was it)
The Titan rescuing the Cerritos is Trek's apology for Picard's season 1 finale, and it's spectacular. While I didn't hate the finale, I do wish Riker had ridden in on the Titan with Captain Christine Vale and a motley fleet of random Federation ships instead of the copy-paste fleet, or barring that I wish the copies had at least turned out to be "Klingon guile" in a neat callback that also explains the sheer numbers of identical ships.
Must be hard to make these vids and pretend their is anything good in Star Trek since Voyager ended. Save yourself the time and just watch The Orville instead.
Plus it finally gave my dude, Alan Ruck, a chance to REALLY do something with Capt. Harriman. While the visual effects were garbage, as far as I'm concerned, of Gods and Men is canon. 😁
Picard has nothing to do with star trek, the plots are dumb, the characters are almost like cartoonish, picard is there just to be yelled at and insulted randomly, about the diversity... there is nothing new there, but the stories were weak... I mean... picard season 2 had a "captain" smoking a cigar in the bridge and on duty... I kept waiting to see if he was also going to drik or use drugs on duty as well
One of things I didn't like about some of the modern Star Trek shows. is that they didn't fit some of the timelines. if they were going to try to show characters from before the original series. they should have made it look correct.
I always thought it was stupid to cast Cumberbatch as Khan. They went from a suave Spaniard to a Brit!! Was there no one like Antonio Banderas (whom I would have cast) to play Khan Noonian Singh?
I personally think that latter DS9 was good Despite Worf. His constant crybaby personality and unspoken granting of special privileges beyond those of Starfleet's other officers annoyed me.
One thing I found interesting was the presence of extras in the background in TOS and TNG that wore gender bent uniforms. It largely seemed to be only in early episodes for each, but in TOS there were some women in the men's style uniforms with pants in the background and in TNG there were men in the skirt uniforms. It's not much and was never commented on but I thought it was a nice touch, particularly given the climate when those shows aired. Really, it made sense that by the 23rd and 24th centuries those things wouldn't be a big deal.
D'ye nae ken that kilts are the only truly manly garb? Seriously, fashions can change radically over comparetivly short periodes of time...e.g., see the difference between Washington's clothing and, say, Polk's....and by that time, pants suits were well on their way to general acceptance in the business world.
@@ShambrookBen Agreed, I don't speak for everyone, Picard season 3 was a huge improvement, My comment was before that aired in the UK. Stand by Discovery isn't great.
The Dax kiss on DS9 is not exactly intended as a lesbian moment although it obviously looks that way on screen to a casual observer. The relationship is that of a man and his wife and it taps into the human longing to relive and rectify the past and the pitfalls that entails, in this case because they are literally different people.
THANK YOU! Finally someone here who gets it right and proves this whole LGBTQ+xyz%$ö pandering was not a thing in OG Star Trek (aka REAL Star Trek) because there was no pandering. It was stories and characters first. And not some political agenda. Things where written and played so it worked in a interesting science fiction setting and not to piss off some and catering to others. Everything was a lot more nuanced and not to push "THE MESSAGE".
No... that was the package it was given to make it "acceptable" to puritanical skeptics. The POINT is that love transcends gender and they were in love no matter their physical organs. This is the same technique was used for the first interracial kiss back in TOS. It was packaged as a "forced" kiss by Gods who could control their bodies. This somehow made it more palatable to the very racist viewing audiences of the time. Very little has changed.
Picard's bringing back the original cast was the most blatant attempt of winning back lost fans, even when it spit in the face of established canon. Like Riker and Deana for example, they weren't even lovers by the time Voyager ended, let alone married.
Being gay myself, I love the representation in newer trek (even if all the aliens look ridiculous), but man Staments is a boring, cold character. LOVE HUGH, but Staments... I find there's not much to like.
Into Darkness might have went too far with the fan service but from the second time i saw it, it grew on me and is now either my favorite or second favorite trek film period behind Star Trek 2009 at times..don't forget the Spore Drive and why no one ever talked about it in any of the other treks..that's why I was so worried about Discovery being set before the original series.. fortunately they went to the future which is where i think i should've started in the first place but the prequel part of the show for the most part just didn't work for me..it's not even close to the amazing job enterprise did
Most of the time i just totally forget that it should play before ToS or simply ignore it. Yeah it doesn't make much sense in many cases and the design is just too far ahead of the old series. That beeing said, i don't hate the design and think it makes sense to make it look more modern and from today what doesn't make sense is the ToS design because why should something in the 23th century look like 1960 ? 😄
@@beldin2987 yeah the star wars prequels had the same problem...the Kelvin Star Trek movies are probably what Gene Roddenberry wishes he could've achieved with ToS but of course he didn't have the money and all the money in the world wouldn't make 60s tech look like 21st century tech...it's a nitpick for me cuz yes it doesn't make since that the tech is so much more advanced but at the same time i wouldn't want a trek movie with 1960s tech...i think what they should've maybe did in St2009 was send back maybe 2 or 3 romulan ships and sometime in between the time they came back and the 25 yrs later the movie mostly takes place in if maybe section 31 got ahold of one of the romulan ships and reverse engineered the tech then it'd make more sense of why the ships and tech are so much better in the Kelvin timeline then in the original timeline
I'm with George Takei - he dislike the idea of making Sulu gay simply because he, the actor is gay in his personal life. He felt betrayed, as he, an actor, put up performance of straight character, not gay character. It's the same as if I, being hetero, was playing gay character, and then told "oh, actually you played hetero" - I would feel like "did I really put up such a bad performance, or what?"
Also with #5: Riker and the Titan saving the Ceritos; which was "Riker to the Rescue" done RIGHT, AND canonizing the Titan and it's design. How could you overlook that? Shame!
When addressing Discovery, please to say "fans" were complaining as if all of the fandom was. I certainly wasn't. I was just ecstatic there was new Trek on the horizon! I didn't mind any of the 'issues'. (that is up until they ended up in de ridiculously far away 32nd century).
yeah that last one I could do without as it feels forced, which is never a good thing. I do see there should be some sort of representation, but not as shown so far. The Dax example was the best one specially because it was done without a very good and tight story that made sense. Everything else shown so far is no more then a mess, only being there 'because fans asked'. It doesn't add anything, it doesn't represent anyone in a positive way and even worse it distracts from the main story itself. Not even mentioning that Discovery was not more then a stolen story (plagiarism) which was even proven making that even more despicable. Again, I am not against showing something like that, but at least make a decent story out of it. No mary sue's, no stupidity reasoning and no bs-ing just for the sake of adding in something.
Well.. the Worf's addition wasn't demand from the fans, was from the studio. With the exception of "The way of the warrior" the ratings were about the same! Of course Worf's addition was great because it gave HIM depth and proper handling of his character. Other then that... the Dominion war was in the schedule anyhow it just went one season later.
