Episode 1037 NE5532 or JRC5532 fake parts from China fake op-amps (OP-07): • #1029 Fake Op-amps fro... eevblog: ru-vid.com?even... Be a Patron: / imsaiguy
5:35 JRC may well have 'invented' their version of the 5532 but the original was the TDA1034 by Philips in 1975. The TDA1034 was a single uncompensated opamp, then it got renumbered as NE5534 then the dual compensated NE5532 (Signetics) which has been made with several prefix letters by various manufacturers for decades. That TDA1034 seemed like quite an exotic part in the late 70's, beyond my pocket money!
Many years ago, during IC removal with two fingers (at 3:59), the IC slipped and turned 90 degrees making my finger an IS socket. Remembering the pain, I am not using this method anymore but a tool or pliers.
I think we should buy counterfeit parts, when the vendor platform has a policy of full reimbursement. In this way the original seller will be forced to stop putting fakes on sale because they would either lose the stuff or lose money for the return shipment. Or get kicked off the platform, if it's the platform that's losing money. Attack is the best defense.
I believe many of the vendors don't even know that they are selling fakes so they are actually getting hurt by this too. The fakes are just inherent in the supply chain and the lowly seller isn't even aware of it.
My guess is only about 10% realize the parts are fake. The rest of the time they think it's their circuit design or something else. I got some Amtel MCUs and had the hardest time figuring out that it was the chip (fake). So the percentages work in the fake seller's favor. As to getting kicked off the platform, that doesn't happen. I've reported fakes to both Amazon and Ebay and the seller disappears for a few days, then reappears under a new name with the same product, photos and description. The platforms know this but do nothing about it. They make the same money whether it's fake or not.
@@Enigma758 well, but let the money loss trickle up to the ultimate punishable culprit. They will have to wise up if all the fakes they sell result in a loss. Yes, third party vendors will disappear and then reappear under a different name, but if they lose money with the new name as well, they will have to revise their business model. Even if it's the platform to lose money, they will eventually devise a method to prevent this. And if they don't, they deserve to lose money much more than the end user.
Please consider pivoting your "fake op-amps" series into a "test/characterizing op-amps" series. These have been remarkable videos. Specific suggestions: confirming the bandwidth of the op-amps and measuring the various kinds of noise. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for the great content.
It's a good idea to keep your older stock separate from ones you recently ordered. Have some older op amps both new and some pulls from scrapped audio equipment. Even way back there were some minor differences between devices of the same part number from different manufacturers. But looks like you got outright crap this time.
I agree that's what I do so that way I don't care if I blow him because it's a downer if you blow a really nice genuine one that you paid a lot of money for 🤣
I once got a batch of TI TL071's that didn't even work. After playing with them for a bit, I discovered they were dual opamps. The specs were approximately like a TL082. I tried a bunch and they all seemed to be the same, but of course not only were the specs wrong, the pinout was wrong for what they were marked to be.
Another way is to check what the offset pins do, see which supply rail they are referenced to, and the value of the on chip resistor. that varies from device to device, and gives a good clue as to whether this is a real or fake. For the better fakes simply connect as voltage follower and go rail to rail, manyare a rebadged other opamp, and you can easily get the input voltage range and output voltage range, allowing better testing, because some of the fakes might actually pass rise time and also have the protection diodes, but internally are CMOS opamps and will go rail to rail. Also check at full operating voltage, many are only rated for 6V supply, and will simply fail shorted or excess supply current.
Lately, I have come across Fake TL071. No output, just warming up without any reason. For two days, it felt like I don't know how to hook up an inverting amplifier.
Uh oh. This prompted me to check a kit of ICs I bought from Amazon a while back and haven't used. I just tried the NE5532P and open circuit both ways on pins 2 and 3. Does the P in the part number make any difference?
I recently purchased an Op Amp tester from eBay (made in China) which uses red and yellow lights to indicate if the Op Amp is working properly. It also tests if the Op Amp has 'low or high conversion rates'. The instructions suggest that low conversion rates are probably fakes from China! I haven't been able to find any information about 'conversion rates' in respect of Op Amps. Do you have any information you can share why low conversion rates may be fake and what are the disadvantages if used in a circuit. Specifically TL072s. Thank you for your time.
here is a video of mine that shows slew rate (what you call conversion) and shows a Chinese fake: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rZDQkzLhgmk.html
I bought some TL072 from Amazon labelled at Texas and when they were put in my amp they kept making a phone interference sound periodically. I put the originals back in and it never happened again. Mine were obviously fake too. I sent them back and bought from an electrical supplier and got REAL Texas Instruments parts.
Not all op amps have input protection diodes. Look at the "Differential input voltage" specification. If it's much more than ±0.5V, no diodes there. (Most don't have).
@@IMSAIGuy Most have nothing at all, but the design is such that they can tolerate differential voltages equal to the supply rails. The use the much the same input stages as a comparator does. For example an LM358 and an LM393 have similar pnp Darlington input stages.
@@paulcohen1555 they are _tone amps_ I’ll you’d have to do is find a nice breakup, or really horrible spitty fuzz, put them in a Hammond or Eddystone box with some fool artwork....you’ll have an instant market.... Asymmetric waves mean more even order harmonics. I’m hoping the chips I picked up from Tayda aren’t fakes. They were well priced, but not the cheapest. Found their pots are good for replacements on JCM900s and Valavestate amps
Yeah I was thinking maybe for a guitar effects or use it as a oscillating amplifier LOL if you can find out what the diodes part numbers are you can put two diodes on the positive negative terminals and fix it it might work it might not but it's worth a shot
Watch out for the those Bourns 10 turn potentiometers that say they're made in Mexico but ship from China. Every one I've used fails open after only a reasonably short amount of use. Then just the other day I had a Fotek SSR-40DA solid state relay fail shorted. Just for kicks I cracked it open only to find a BTA16 triac inside. Replaced it with another Chinese SSR-25DA and so far that one is working.
@@MultiKumar321 That's the point. After three plus failures on a small bias power supply I bought a real but used part from a US vendor and its been trouble free ever since. It was funny how the Chinese were even faking the country of origin.
I also got some tl072s that have turned out to be fake, no jfet inputs so the input bias is way to high. Also slew rate way off. I am thinking of building an op amp tester that could report slew rate, bias current, output resistance, rail to rail performance, to make it simpler to sort these fakes out of the parts bin.
I was thinking of an opamp tester too. If you have any good ideas. I think I could do a PCB with various sockets for various pinouts. and several configurations for tests: 1. offset 2. slew 3. noise board would have oscillator circuit for input. output would go to scope any thing you would add? I'm not sure how to test input bias current in an easy setup
@@IMSAIGuy I guess I was thinking a bit more along the lines of using an arduino to make one of those universal testers like we have for transistors etc. The op-amp could be connected in a unity gain configuration. The input would be connected using resistors of different values with the lowest being an ADC input pin, the output would also connect through resistors to digital pins and ADC pin. You could measure input bias current by measuring the voltage drop across a high value resistor (say 1-10Meg) Maybe limit the power supply to just a +/-2.5 V so you can power everything off of the same supply. slew rate would be easy to measure. Not sure if the ADC will have enough precision to measure offset. A small resistor on the ground rail with a mosfet shunt could be used to measure idle current. Output resistors could be used to measure the drive current capacity. I think with not much more than an arduino you could test alot of useful parameters at least well enough to check for fakes. Actually it looks like slew rate alone is enough to probably sort the fakes from the real ones from what I have seen so far.
@@IMSAIGuy Just put a 100K resistor in series with each input and measure the voltage across it with a decent multimeter. Opamps like LM358 will have a typical input bias current of around 50nA, so if you can read 5mV, you'll see it. An NE5532 will draw around 200nA Obviously FET input opamps will read nothing.
From the slew rate it looks like a rejected 741 clone. Those cannot be sold, because they are so low spec. So they sell them as fakes. I have once got very high quality fake serial USB converters. They were missing the high current functions, but otherwise were very good. So I still use them.
Fakes ... no way into the trash they go. Never keep that garage around. I bought some 32Q08 serial flash, the numbers on the bottom all the IC's were all different. Installed three of them , of course didn't work. One way ride into the trash. Good info IMSAI
Yeah I was thinking maybe for a guitar effects or use it as a oscillating amplifier LOL if you can find out what the diodes part numbers are you can put two diodes on the positive negative terminals and fix it it might work it might not but it's worth a shot. That's a lot of bad offense to be having on hand lol🤣
The whole point of the reverse-parallel diodes on a NE5532 is to protect the inputs from large differential voltages (you use a small current-limiting resistor in series with each input) if they are used in a circuit where the opamp may be driven out of the linear region. Any silicon diode will do the job. With the fakes, they may well be able to withstand those large differential voltages as many common opamps like the LM358 can anyway.
@@RexxSchneider yeah that's true I would agree with that. My fender mixer that I have they actually used diodes like I said at the very beginning of the input and then the op amp from there. look up the LX-1504 powered mixer schematic I plan to build this is one of my projects 😁 once again thanks for sharing great video 💯🤗 And also look up the Marshall MG 10 CD schematic they use diodes on the input as well. As you were explaining in your reply. Yes they are there to reject large input signals. And large voltages. Like a protect mode 😁 for both. And of course they use diodes to keep voltage going in One direction as well which I'm sure you know all this. I'm a self teacher didn't go to school for it but I enjoy building amplifiers and working on them. You can learn a lot with hands on and reading books and watching videos and making mistakes LOL. You can also use microfarad caps and also polyester film caps to clean up any unwanted distortion and nanofarad caps and Metallized Polyester Film Capacitor down to ground. And using a good Zobel network. All this really helps when building amplifiers🤗 I have used many fake transistors and op amps and just by doing this I have got them to sound really good clean and Crystal clear.
@@RexxSchneider and one more thing did you know you can use a npn and a PNP for a long tail pair ...... I've only seen a PNP and a PNP for long tail or a npn and a npn for long tail pair. But never one npn and one PNP for a long tail pair. I have actually accomplished this in one of my amplifier builds and it sounds great. I was thinking about it one day so I decided to try it and it worked. The reason for doing this is I was building just a plain old npn output for this particular amplifier build and I thought it would sound better using a PNP for a feedback transistor and a npn for input transistor as a long tail pair. A PNP and a NPN work well together when pushing a NpN only output. And yes it is a very tricky precedure but it can be done. Transistors have a reversed voltage threshold and it's your job to figure out where that threshold is.🤗 It took a lot of man hours to figure this npn and PNP long tail pair configuration out. This is one of my patent designs.🤗💯 By doing this the PNP feedback transistor boost the power output of the two or four or five npn output transistors magnifying it and working the npn's harder. Meaning it increases gain. I used a 2n5401 and a 2n5551 as a complimentary long-tailed pair. 2n5551 is the input transistor and the 2n5401 is the feedback transistor. And you could reverse this if you were building a PNP output only.🤗
I don't like fuming nitric acid ru-vid.com?event=comments&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbDVaTl9DYUhiNFQ4YWdacDFUaXhraUtmZl9tZ3xBQ3Jtc0tudFZiMUhjSkVNbnV3aXNYUVBVRENnMGdPYWhaZTMtaklqU3NoOF9UakpCN2RJQVk1eE54Y0RmUW93OXZvTXVoQnZMY2YyQ1ExZmotRThNR0hMalNuRVhjWlVlZEhYT2dUX2YzMEJySjZicWRabXNvYw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eevblog.com%2Fforum%2Fprojects%2Fwhats-inside-the-cheapest-and-fakest-jellybean-opamps%2F&stzid=UgwWt86AQBzwYtC2cyN4AaABAg.9Y782XXT6nN9Y7GZ5j0tzP
@@IMSAIGuy mosfets work differently than transistors I guess is why he said that With all those fake op-amps you have lying around I would try to use two diodes and see if you can't get them to work correctly. I have an old fender amp and in the schematic it shows two diodes at the very beginning of the input one going forward and one going the opposite direction both going down to ground
Yah I built a circuit a year ago or so with a couple OP-07's and was underwhelmed of the performance. I think I got them off Amazon but from a Chinese vendor. I'm thinking when I have time I'll get some from Mouser or Digikey and see.
I too have received many fake opamps through Aliexpress. Out of annoyance I was forced to design a few test PCB's with many jumper settings for multiple test configurations. And later for multiple opamp footprints. Occasionally received money back, but sometimes a dumbass on the other end who simply claimed: "show with photo that you received something DIFFERENT." No, the imprint is OK, but the contents of the chip are NOT! It does NOT conform to the datasheet. I made a story of it on a handmade website with a lot of test info. On the first line an option to activate Google translate. A link won't work, so Google "opamp test PE1ABR"
Fake News, Fake Chips, It's all fake! I was beginning to think the cheap RF output module I bought off of ebay was fake. I made a solder splash from the output pin to ground. By the time I found the problem, I had "bruised" the module. Only get 30 watts out instead of 50 watts. But hey, the old Alinco 2 meter rig is working again. Bad Sanyo caps by the audio output chip had leaked on the board, power switch transistor in SOT-89 package was shorted. I bought the hot air gun and solder paste you suggested. I may yet get proficient at SMT. Thanks for the soldering videos. Incandescent dial lamps were replaced with LEDs. I was on such a roll, I got sloppy soldering the output module. Oh well, it works. 30 watts is good enough.
I get so sick of buying products that are not the advertised product.. and for some reason it always seams to track back to China... I mean it is so blatant I see it on reputable retail store shelves. I am just a low income earner who likes to play with SOCs (Arduino, pi) and loose the little money I have to scammers. :(
But it's Amazon and Ebay who make the practice possible (and profitable). EDIT: I've noticed that Amazon has essentially removed the "Report Errors in Product Description" tab. They know the product is fake and don't need any more customers telling them about it. The problem is really not Amazon, Ebay, or China. It's American consumers who buy crap because it's cheap or fall for deals that are too good to be true. A fool and his money...
It is silicon by the way. Silicon is an element (look at the periodic table). Silicone is a polymer: polysiloxane. It is very hard to break open epoxy parts, you have to dissolve them in nitric acid. I did crack one open and saw just the corner of the die on the OP-07 fakes I had. the die was too small, probably a LM358.
@@copernicofelinis I believe that is an option creators can set on their videos. Some will allow links, other creators have it set so the link is either auto-removed or has to be manually approved by the creator, I'm not sure exactly how it works.
I don't know what is worse, fake components or fake politicians . Maybe Swalwell can talk with Fang Fang about curbing the flow of fake parts. Until then I will continue to harvest surplus boards and put my Tektronix 370A to good use .
