"The days of 23mm tires..." Kids, I raced in the 80's on 19mm tires. NINETEEN. And we pumped them up to a minimum of 120psi. Might as well have been riding on tires made of solid steel.
I’d like deep section wheels but I do a lot of descents where I go >40mph. I‘ve heard that deep section wheels can be a nightmare in crosswind, especially on a descent.
The issue with crosswind is it won't blow you off the track, but it can catch you off guard. That's where the trouble begins. And that can happen even with medium depth rims (35 mm in my case). So if you like deep section wheels, have them. You'll learn how to live with crosswinds.
No...they are twitchy. I have 45 and I ride up mt. Hood and back. It's a HC climb and coming down over 40mph it is twitchy. Maybe the guy with the 55mm isn't doing serious decent. Don't know.
You could add a few points. Pogacar was running 165mm crankarms and both Vingegaard and Pogacar used 25mm internal with rims. And handlebar width have come down since 44cm in the 90s. Not sure JVs 1x experiment was to his advantage. He occasionally seems in a less than ideal gear and when 1x efficiency evidently is a bit worse at the ends of the cassette it seems an odd choice for mountain stages.
@@davidarthur they only did it for the star riders. SRAM still pays them to ride 2x. Just like 53-54 chainrings on Red. SRAM made a big deal about smaller rings but ended up giving the pros custom larger ones. I hear new Red improved the front shifting so maybe 2x drops are less of a worry?
@@eto2352 That's largely because the needs of the pros are different to the needs of regular cyclists. I enjoy the benefits of SRAM's smaller chainrings on the hilly terrain I cycle
Somehow my Wilier Filante SLR in Size M with Ultegra, Faveros and the Miche SLR 42 wheels comes in at 7,4 kg. Maybe that massive paintjob needed half a k of paint 😅
I was going to get some Hunt 50mm deep rims but i live in the South Wales valleys and pretty much every route involves steep climbs. I watched a video where the benefits of shallow rims on hills seemed to significantly outweigh the aero benefits of deep rims on the flat. 🤷♂️
involves but how much? remember unless it's a single trip how much you climb means how much you'll come down... you may overestimate the total percentage of the hills, if it's more like rolling terrains and you like to ride fast then aero is very significant. The 50mm is considered "shallow" for me and you can get very light ones. It might also depends on your body weight. If you weight 50kg or 60kg then probably you'll feel something but I as someone who weighs around 80kg for example I just can't discern the difference between 2 bottles or 1 bottle, or if the bottle is full of water or empty, or to tell by feel or any metrics of how much water is left in the bottle, on ANY climb -- that's in a magnitude of 0-1kg difference. Wheel probably less at 100-200g I don't think you can actually feel it. You might feel something but I wonder it will be other things like stiffness of the wheel itself mistaken as weight difference. Weight is just easier to quantify but the aero is real. Of course even the aero benefits of "deep" wheel is over-signified. The body position matters more but it's there.
The Canyon riders only and I mean only wanted lighter bike. Remco changed to a bike with less fancy paint to save weight. Cav stayed on the same bike because the shap of the handlebars don’t work for him on the light new bike
I have been riding a lot in the dutch mountain this year (aka headwind in completly open farmfields) and then aero matters and you instantly notice it if you drop in your bars vs sitting on the hoods. But i can win more with training a few extra hours then dumping money on gear :P
From your total weight together with bike let’s say 85 kg, 3 - 5 kg here and there doesn’t make difference at all. What makes difference is only your power and endurance.
Concerning the simplified conclusions about the one gear in the front. Especially during the first time trial, several riders had problems when changing gears in the rear due to strong chain crossing. Most even had the largest and smallest gears in the rear just to fill the space and did not use them because of extreme chain crossing. And each had to have some component mounted in the front to prevent the chain from falling off.
@davidarthur to be faster, tyres is possibly the best thing; what do the pro use if not limited by sponsors? Low rolling resistance data would help. When it comes to deep wheel, it would be nice if different depth wheelsets were available for example, 50mm depth front and 80mm rear
I decided to give skin suits a try and I must admit that I'm hooked. They are much more comfortable than bibs and jersey. Specialized and Colnago don't have options for their pros. They are stuck with one bike. And it will be the same for Trek from now on.
I love a good skinsuit and aero socks. A good skinsuit feels like a second skin. Or you are not feeling it at all. And aero socks, they just look better than normal socks 😅
I appreciate your work, David, and two thoughts, I think I'd have whatever Tadej's having as far as wheels and tires and the return of aero bottles makes sense and surely someone is working on ones which easily stand up for filling and such. I could see that becoming the next big tech purchase, get your aero bottle system, the bottles and cages and funnels and mixes and everything else we need for serious hydration and watt-savings. Or maybe it'll be bladders or behind-the-saddle bottles or, hey, a return to the old-school, bottles on the bars for that classic look, just aero bottles this time as bonus fairings. 😀
But, David… Pogi’s bike was a 220ish watt one, far from the top ‘aero’ bikes (?). His improved fitness & nutrition won him 6+ min over JV. No aero bikes came close. I guess it’s the one to copy rather than scrutinizing marginal gain 😉 Btw, the wide tires were fitted to cope with their speed (see how fast they were on the descend along the ‘col’. One mistake could cost their lives; it may be counterproductive for amateurs other than pillowy ride but noodle legs while climbing)
@@davidarthur check the Tour magazin, David. However, it’s the training, nutrition, and conditioning that made Pogi able to pull 600ish watts for 40+ min and smoked JV by. 6+ min. The tweaks on his bike were due to biomechanics and terrains. Descending through the ‘col’ at such speed required confidence. One mistake would’ve costed one’s life. If one amateur doesn’t posses the same biomechanics and power as WT riders, the tweaks might be counterproductive 👌
I have most of these and happy with my setup but could go bigger on the chainrings (currently 52/36 w/ 11-30 cassette) and would like to try 54/40 w/ 11-34 cassette. The Cannondale aero bottle and cage is much cheaper and easier to get than the new Trek RSL aero bottles and cages. Don’t have either yet. It would be cool to see someone test them in a wind tunnel. Of course nothing would make a bigger difference for me than to drop 10kg and add 20w to my FTP 😂 one can dream 😅
I don't think it was a good decision from Vingegaard to go 1x. Weight will be only marginal lower because he needed a bigger cassette, and the aerodynamic benefits are almost zero; and though drivetrain losses are less with bigger chainrings and bigger cogs the increase due to the bad chain line is way bigger than that. On top the steps between gears are bigger and sometimes you could see that he could not find an optimal gear for maintaining his cadence. Also the hookless rims of Pogacar are a bad choice (...well they are not really a choice since the sponsor Enve only makes hookless rims...) - luckily in the TdF nothing happens, but at the Giro he had a crash caused by them - again luckily at low speed
Great presentation. I'd like to think that me being way heavier than a pro rider the benefit of lighter bike is still better. I'm wondering if they will provide you a brand-new pair or an old pair of Sir Mark's 1,000-pound socks to review?
If you are heavier your bike weight matters even less. 65kg + 8kg = 73kg +\- 3-5kg makes no difference whatsoever. In your case 80kg+8kg= 88kg +/- 6kg makes no difference whatsoever.
I've got deep wheels that were top just two years ago, but they're optimized for 25mm tyres, with 19mm internal width. Not sure slapping 28mm tyres would be any faster since it would lose that 105 rule. Can't keep up with tech with wheels being so expensive unfortunately.
105 rule doesn’t really apply with disc brake rims. But if your wheels are optimised for a certain width of tyres it would make sense for you to run 25mm
Don't worry about the 105 rule, you won't feel any loss going to 28mm tires, actually the opposite, they feel better and offer more grip and less rolling resistance.
So can anybody explain why the pistards in Olympics use 23mm tyre instead 28 or 32mm? Because 23 mm are MORE AERO!. Are the pistards stupid? 28mm are more comfortable but not more aero.
The pre-race bike weights were shown to be wrong. The staff of TP and JV have both been seen adding weights to the bikes during the UCI checks in order to be compliant. These guys are going right to the limit, but the bike companies want you to think that the overweight bikes you're buying are being used in the Tour.
If aero is winning the aero v weight battle with pros and endurance is winning the endurance v aggressive geometry with the rest of us, where is the affordable aero endurance bike?
But changing to wide tires, tubeless and aero means buying an expensive new bike. No thanks. I would love to buy a new climbing bike, my favorite - Giant TCR Advanced SL. However, I cannot afford one right now.
Training by volume, fueling correctly (off the bike & on), conditioning, proper rest will make you much fitter & faster regardless of the bike. Plus, the flat abs & athletic build will make one look more like an athlete than the bike itself 😅. The mods Pogi made were due to his biomechanics & terrains.
Dude you are the genius... Why haven't anyone thought of that??? They can just call on the radio for a team car for the knob and then hold the car for 30s while "adjusting the shoe".
Whilst this video is about gear, we shall all look at our weight first before the bike... The reality is a climbers bike benefits the average cyclist more than an aero optimised bike which sees the benefit in speeds of 45km/h + on the flats and descents at 80-100km/h, but most people wants to own their favourite cyclists equipment, turns out not to be the best option.
Some tunnel testings made slightly different conclusions. 25km/h is just enough speed to feel aerodynamics. And just remember in real life you have to overcome front and side winds which affects your aerodynamics even if you ride 15 km/h
I am not in a sport of high achievements and most bikes from ~ 400€ to 1600€ are just good enough for my fitness and transportation needs. I can maintain 40 km/h on “non aero” bike no problem, and going even faster would be only more dangerous without any benefits.
If 80% of drag comes from the rider, improving that (narrow bars, tighter jersey, better position etc) by 10% will give 8% overall gains. Spending big on aero bike/wheels etc to improve by 10% will only gain you 2% overall. I have a buddy who has to pedal to chase me rolling on descents because he cannot fathom how to BE aero on his bike. Head up, elbows/knees out, jersey flapping etc and thinks his bike is 'slow'. 🤣🤣
Yes position matters of course but only if you can maintain the same power in that better position. All that matters is power and endurance. Those socks, suits, etc. is just marketing and money, otherwise Pogy wouldn’t wear that square shaped RM wristwatch.
because it's not as simple as that, wider is better but that's a balance between the benefits of wider vs weight and aero - I'll do a video on this sometime soon to delve into into it a bit more
Some people still say that despite this recent marketing of wider tires when they ride on 23 mm their computers show that they ride faster and easier than when on 28mm tires.
@@tongotongo3143 who are "some people"? Narrow tyres might be faster on a smooth drum or velodrome it's when you factor in the roughness of the roads that wider tyres become beneficial
All of this is just opinions at best if not marketing interest. While “some people” are the people who aren’t inferior to those who propagate wide tire theories.
@@tongotongo3143 There are actual studies that show the benefits of wide tyres, so data does exist, and you can bet teams do their own testing before choosing any equipment
De que cojones estais hablando de neumáticos, de manillares, bielas y calcetines......cuando realmente es otra cosa que se lleva por dentro, no veis que suben como motos a mas de 7 watios kilo y un vam de más de 1800.....pensad un poco, los arboles no os dejan ver el bosque
Every time I hear the term "aero socks", I laugh. Proves that PT Barnum was right. The pros use them because that is what they are provided with. In no way can socks make you faster.
@@billyblanco8106 As you likely already know, the leg shaving is for completely different reasons and has zero to do with aerodynamics. Quick, name a single rider wh shaves their arms. If you believe socks are going to make you more "aero", go ahead and keep spending your money and tell us how much faster you are.
Please take the term GAME CHANGER out of your vernacular, please? It has become quite offensive at this point. Thank you I know your vocabulary is much wider than most.
