For me, the # of speeds is relatively irrelevant, I want a good range, useable gaps between the ratios and RELIABLE shifting. 9, 10, 11, 12 speed all have the same range - say 11-36 available. The gap between ratio's is fine on all of them, I find the 10 speed ideal for what I want and more durable than 11 speed. I'll take reliable and durable over an additional gear step all day. [all comments relate to mechanical... :) ] I run Tiagra shifters on 10 speed GRX and it is a sweet set up.
Why more gears means to you that the groupset is more unreliable? Yeah, the chain is thinner, but they still are durable enough for (non-pro) cycling...
Super super valid Dave - moved from 9 speed to 12 speed SRAM ETAP and after a couple of months it was pretty safe to say that theres not a massive difference. ETAP sure is nice, but it's definitely a nice to have rather than essential. I like the SRAM hoods better, but that might just be my wallet convincing me...
I bought my first road bike in 2018. It's a Wild Seattle (local brand in Costa Rica, sadly they went out of business when they made their best bikes ever). It has a Shimano Claris groupset, with the exception being the crankset, so one year later, I bought a Claris R2000 crankset. I really love that bike. Last year I installed an S-Road 11-36 cassette. The 8 speeds are enough for me. I don't mind the gaps, coming from 9-speed MTBs that is not an issue.
cheers for the thoughts on the groupsets Dave - so long as it works nice and smooth then its good for me! - 12speed on the MTB, bulletproof SRAM GX eagle, awesome groupset takes mega abuse , caked in slop and just works; 2x10 Shimano GRX on the g bike and it works fine, great ergonomics on the hoods and I like having the range the 2x gives - I put a wide range cassette on there to help up the hills, then the old road bike is 2x9 (or it could be 8 it's well old!) shimano 600 tri-colour - looks very nice and still works nice and smooth. Just ride whatever and smile :)
The main problem with more gears is that people don’t necessarily use them. Back in the day I used to work in a bike shop, and sold a customer an 18 speed mountain bike. The guy who bought the bike rode it every day, weather allowing, and every year he would bring it in for a new chain and cassette. Despite the fact that his bike had 18 speeds, he only used one of them, and rode enough miles each year that he wore out that particular cog on his cassette. Most people on a multi-speed bike don’t limit themselves to a single gear, but many don’t take advantage of all the gears their bike offers. For myself, I started riding motorcycles at the age of 12. Motorcycles have gears, and you must shift through the entire range as you accelerate from a stop. I ride a bicycle the same way; when I am slowing down to stop, I shift down to a lower gear, and as I take off and accelerate, I shift up through the gears. For a rider who makes use of all their gears, the more you have, the better. It sometimes happens when trying to maintain a particular pace that one gear is a bit too hard to push, while the next lowest gear is too easy. Having a smaller step between the gears, or a gear in that sweet spot can really make a difference. Most people tend to talk positively about what they use, my grandfather swears that a 3 speed manual transmission in a pickup is the best possible gearbox as there are fewer parts to wear out and go wrong. He shrugs off the fact that he can’t keep up with traffic on the interstate, saying that driving so fast is more dangerous and uses more gasoline. I’ve bee riding road bikes since 10 speeds (2x5) were still being raced in the Tour de France, and my first road bike had that setup. I then graduated to a 12 speed bike, then 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, and have now made the switch to a 1x12 gravel bike. I have found every generation of drivelines which add a gear to be an improvement over their predecessors, and I hope the evolution continues.
right on. i moved from GRX 11-speed, which was honestly just flipping fantastic.... to SRAM Rival AXS 12-speed - because i wanted to try it. what i noticed was that i didn't like the ergonomics of the levers BUT i loved the spacing of the 12-speed 10-44 cassette. i sold the bike (fit issues after a crash/injury), and built up a new frameset, but with SRAM Force AXS - i figured, i didn't like the ergonomics of the Rival so let's give Force a go... well, the lever ergonomics were worse, and i developed a sense of Battery Anxiety every time i would ride, because twice i nearly got caught out 40km from home with a "battery low" message on my head unit from the rear derailleur. riding is supposed to be an anxiety relief, and here i was making it worse. anyway. i bought a new GRX 12-speed groupset to try out, and the levers are great - they feel like home. and the mechanical shifting of GRX is spot on. but, i didn't care for the GRX 10-45 cassette spacing (i do 50/50 road/gravel), so i am using the SRAM AXS 10-44 cassette, and SRAM AXS flat-top chain. it's.....the perfect groupset??? for me, anyway.
@@waynelikesbikes yep, XDR freehub is required. :) no issues at all, but i'm running the SRAM flat-top chain, which is key for using the AXS XPLR cassette.
I’m running 13 speeds and I’m considering going back to 11 and putting up with the gaps between gears in exchange for a non-creaky cassette/freehub interface and more consistent shifting
I guess it depends on your application. 12 sp on mtb made a big difference for me on my XC race bike. I like to run tall gearing for the fast open sections, the 12sp gave me a lower gear for the steeper climbs than the 11 sp so it worked better for me. I typically run 36 or 38 t chainring. For a lot of people that are not hunting for a high top speed and run lower gearing the difference will not be there for them.
Totally, I was more referring to gravel…I also feel for mtb it’s nice to have the 12 speed. This is more as I run a 10-52 cassette whereas on my gravel bike it’s a 10-46 so smaller jumps between gears.
Prefer shimano cranks and bb to sram but that could be that I didn't fit the apex cranks very well, just seemed I went through BB's a bit quickly. replaced it with a GRX 11 speed and been fine since. The apex jockey wheels on the mech didn't last as long as I'd expect, replaced with hope and they've been fine. I also have a bit of a lag when changing gears going down the cassette, it doesn't jump gears but its not instant - this is after 3 years and 3k of riding in mud. Its not a problem for the riding I do, I'm not racing so its not stopping me riding anything. Its a mechanical groupset so will change cables and outers and all the basic stuff when it gets a bit warmer in the garage! I like the sram stuff, I feel the issues I've had might be a reflection of my maintenance.
I don't care about how many speeds I have, I just want a comfortable bike and my 7 year old GT Avalanche is very comfy with it's 3x9 Shimano drivetrain. 😎
Hello Dave and thanks for your videos. I hope that you see this message and can answer my question. I currently run 50mm tyres on my gravel bike and I was wondering if I switched to say 40mm tyres would my pedalling be more efficient, would i use less watts to keep my bike going? Thanks Dave
Hiya, sorry for the late reply. It depends on the terrain, a 40 would be faster than a 50mm on most stuff. A 50 is pretty big and would be great at lower pressure on more technical terrain. If you’re looking for road/light gravel speed go for the 40mm. Hope that helps.
I run SRAM Rival group with a Wolf Tooth 40t front chainring and a Shimano XT 11-46 cassette on my Rodeo Labs Flaanimal. It works perfectly and provides a wonderful range for all of my needs.
@@DaveNoakes Same, mate. I have zero reason to make any changes with this current setup. I was tempted when the 12X stuff came out, but I can't find the need.
Thanks Dave...I have SRAM Apex, 11 speed 1 X , 6 year old mechanical , on my gravel bike and Shimano , 2X on the other 2 . Yes, Im very lucky , long story , but I love the ease of service factor , too . And ..uh , how is shaving with the new ink ?
apex 11 x1 speed on mine...gear cables an absolute bugger to change as they almost bend back on themselves in the hood. And I think that the 11 cassette is an absolute fortune compared to Shimano...then again , a friend has GRX and his chain rings wear out. Having to look at a Hope BB with adapters because Apex BBs are rubbish.....horses for courses, I suppose. Also Apex are limited in chainring size, basically because of the off-set bolts..Absolute Black for a 38 and that's oval ..80 quid nearly, but has to be done...having said all that, the only reason I went Apex was because my choice of 105 didn't have 165mm cranks at the time...
Would do you rather have a an 11 speed SRAM Rival or a GRX 12 speed if the GRX was $300 more? And what if the SRAM option was on a Rocky Mountain and GRX on a Canyon?
I’ve not used the GRX 12 speed yet but have one here to try out. My guess is I’d pick that over the sram. I’d go for GRX regardless of the bike brand. But I know not all brands offer it. The sram stuff isn’t bad…I think the shimano is just more refined and lasts longer without issues.
I agree 100%, but people believe in marketing in BLS. The level of complication, cost, and maintenance goes up and up... With those adjectives about lightest, stiffest, fastest, and more areodynamic. The bikes at present should be weightless and achieve Mach 2 speed. Aslo about Sram shifting, I have Sram Force, and Shimano Ultegra. No comparison, and Shimano is perfect.
When you think of it in gravel terms and you have those large cassettes, you need those 12/13 speeds to bring the gaps down to a more manageable jump, especially on 1x (1x9/10/11 didn't really cut it), on the road as long as your not trying to be heman with a 58 tooth chain ring, 8 speed was enough. They just didn't offer smaller chain rings back then, even the small chain ring was a 48 in some cases. if they'd offered a 48/34 or somthing of that nature with an 8 speed block you'd be pretty happy, if you like really tight jumps. They kind of hid behind "invotion" to push standards when all they had to do was offer smaller chain rings back in the day. But smaller chainrings don't sell bikes. They do the same with HIFI and watts, more is better right? BUT I like my one to one 33 -33 on my sram and the 46-10 is quite steep gear steep enough for me. It gets me pretty much over everything and I have the benefit of the first 6-7 sprockets are 1 step jumps so again for that to happen in a useable config up half the block you need 12 speed to keep those 1 tooth jumps.On 11 speed in the middle of the block on sram I always found hunting for a gear that wasn't there with 12 speed its there.
Thanks for taking the time to comment, I don’t really mind the gaps between gears on my 9-46 11 speed. You make a really good point about the small chain rings/hifi’s etc. I love the simplicity of a single speed…once you get the gear selection right!
I replaced my Sram Apex jockey wheels with sram gx jockey wheels and they have good quality seals and bearings and the problem is solved. You can also use a Rival 1 derailler wich has seals and bearings.
I told you this last year. Why would you pay a similar price for the new Apex which is bottom of their range when you could pick up the GRX top of the range mechanical for a similar price!
Mountain bikes are all 9 speed triple chainset, though mates ran one by 9 before it was even a thing. Commute and all road bikes are 10 speed. When I built the all rod bike went with what worked on the commute bike plus the cost of 11 and 12 speed was too much.
You can get really good 10 speed groupset for such a decent price. I get why people are running 1x rather than a triple…the narrow wide chain ring changed everything!
GRX is the best groupset I've EVER had. Ridden so much gravel now and it's faultess and feels so good, the brakes, the front shifter and the rear. The chain is lasting and the cassette.
I ride 11 speed it's fine.. Campagnolo and Shimano.. 12 speed not worth it, as you say better to get a higher end groupset than lower end just for 12 speed. :) Pete
I also have the Shimano GRX 1x11 mechanical groupset on my gravel bike and it has been bombproof. Still running the original cable and shifts like butter. Plus, I find the shifters super comfortable.
@@Sam321go this is a good point and I agree with you….but comparing axs electronic with GRX mechanical isn’t a fair comparison. Maybe I can get my hands on a sram axs and GRX 12 speed electronic set and compare.
Apex vs GRX, that's not a fair comparison. Force-1 vs GRX would be a more even match. Btw, Apex derailleur is not great kit. Absolutely worth upgrading to a better mech.
I have a 9 speed on one of my bikes the other is 12 speed. Hmm I prefer the 9 speed overall but the 12 speed , never use 1st and never use 12th. But the 12 speed is sram something and the 9 speed is shimano something or other. I do know the 12 speed took a lot more setting up ..hmmm yes 9 speed is better. God I am waffling and even baffling myself 😂. Think ill just ride tomorrow and find out. .
@@DaveNoakes I'm even holding off upgrading my frame because most frames have internal routing for everything and the only external option i prefer is the nukeproof scout but that frame is always out of stock. The current bike market situation is a mess High hopes it'll sort itself out.
