Certainly, the most impressive performance from flechette rounds I've ever seen. Accuracy was WAY off the charts! I think they are ready for commercial production.
@@jerryfick613 Don't forget the stabilizing fins; you got your LPPFSDSF (lead plate penetrating fin-stabilized discarding sabot flechette) and you got your HPFSDSF (hollow point fin-stabilized discarding sabot flechette). Seems every time Jeff and OG bring on a new round from Mr. Lavrov we have to say he outdid himself AGAIN!
Every time nay sayers tell me "we'll never get flechettes to work no matter how much we want to, we've tried for decades in several military weapons programs, they just don't work", I'll show them this. There's still things left to learn and in turn improve.
I doubt it would work well with suppressor as the sabot would likely begin separating in the first blast chamber and would then get caught on the first set of baffles.
The search seems to be complete. A shotgun projectile that behaves much like a rifle round. A long distance trajectory map at a higher velocity would have added dimension to the video. Great work!
Man that was really shocking. I'm used to seeing flechettes, even ones that are sabot stabilized, being wildly inaccurate and tumbling and just not being effective. Some amazing work there by Alexei, and you did one heck of a job loading them so that they performed well. Also, I think it would be really cool (and shocking) if you and OG traded places for one video. You shoot and he man the camera. Just as a surprise for us all.
@@michellewilt4479 getting maximum force to the projectile without ripping off the fins or damaging the sabot petals is why its so hard. If the petals are the least bit damaged it could stick to a fin or cause asymmetric separation nudging the dart in a random direction.
I was absolutely shocked that it penetrated that 32 lb lead even after watching it go through that military grade tactical vest but that hollow-point what it did to the meat and the ballistics gel wow those are some immensely powerful rounds! great vid keep up the good work guys 👍
I was thinking the same thing. Is it “Just Me?” or have we seen this type of shell fail often before? Looks like the “Cameraman” Geoff has got his magic and science dialed in.
I woulda thunk it. Penentration happens from flow which happens from a pressure gradient. It's a function of stuff like mass, velocity, cross section surface area, hardness of the projectile, hardness and thickness of the target and resulting impulse from deceleration. Personally, I'm impressed with the accuracy and precision.
Those things are shockingly effective and because of the light loads it would be devastating in an automatic shotgun in close quarters combat. 😬 Mixed loads would overwhelm anything you could reasonably face. An AP version could be made from tungsten. It's a game changer.
could only load subsonic feasibly, see: SPEW a us military 5.56 sabot project. the brittleness of tungsten cause breakages no matter what the discarding sabots were made of, might be different with the thickness of 12ga but i would lean to subsonic anyway, this in a saiga 12 with a suppressor would be a plate cracker
I haven't had high expectations on these flechettes, so I was all the more surprised by the excellent accuracy and penetrating power. Really impressive.
These were really impressive. When I saw they were made by Alexey, I had a feeling they’d be special. The guy makes some really good stuff. Thanks for showing them!
I think that's one of the most remarkable rounds you've ever tested. This was spy / sci-fi stuff in the seventies and eighties, and when I got older, I was so disappointed they didn't exist. And now you have flechettes that don't just work, but work well.
I will be 100 percent honest, I thought your channel fell off the face of RU-vid until I opened up RU-vid today and saw this video. Definitely glad you are still doing your thing. Great job guys
@@windowsxp7460 Any of the tanks that don't have a smooth bore barrels. The British still use rifled barrels so they can use HESH (High Explosive Squash Head) rounds
I remember when i used to try to explain the interesting complexities, and questions, about ballistics to folk who weren't much in the know...then there was fledermice. I don't bother saying much, these days, till after I've sent the links. Then you wait a few days for them to catch up, and jump ahead to far meatier, more interesting, subject depths. Half the time, there's another video on the channel, to flush that out aswell. This is the wealth of information i used to dream about
For the next test of the Flechettes should be a range test out to as far as they will fly accurately and penetration test at range as well! Maybe start at 25 and work up to 100 yds!
This has got to be one of the coolest ones ever out of all your prototype vids. Those things are stupid impressive. And anyone who knows knows Greg is a fantastic shot. 99% of the time it's the physics of whatever slug he's shooting.
Just a prediction: Flies like a Dart and sheds fins on impact. Could be cool in ballistic gel test for additional damage. Penetration is going to rely heavily on how cranked up the “ mass Excellerator “ cranked up and how well the sabot forms a seal in the barrel. I give it a 8.5/10 that it will preform extremely well.
As well as clothing, tightness of fit, type of Aluminium, how everything has been treated (or not) and much more.! Uluminium can be very brittle or quite ductile, and not all of that is down to the alloying of the metal its self :)
@Benson if it were from one piece, then wouldn't there be more weight in the rear, affecting balance and stabilization? Especially with the hp. Youd have to hollow out the back. I want to see helical or offset fins to rotate without any choke. Taking arrow principals into the slug world
I wonder if they Fly well at any Distance? Or With a 1500 FPS plus load … the weight of these makes it possible to fire them with a high FPS …I like to see more of these rounds tested….they are Very impressive…
You’ll want to look into SPEW, a U.S. project from the Cold War that was part of the development of the 5.56 NATO round. The flechettes were generally very functional when they didn’t break. But they broke frequently, but I think that’s probably because the action was simply too violent.
I kinda think the magic of these is that they are subsonic. I think if you went supersonic with them the sabot wouldn't want to discard cleanly and I doubt they'd be stable if it did.
I'm a degreed engineer and have been shooting and loading ammo for over 40 years and all I can say is that I'm stunned at the results of this. I don't want to call what you did luck. Clearly, it was experience that told you what to load and how to load it but the odds of you getting such spectacular results on each and every shot seemed rather low. It's not that this hasn't been done before on a larger scale, it has, but you were able to make it work right off without blowing the dart apart or any of the million things that would have caused the projectile to fail. Thank god you resisted any temptation to fire one down a rifled barrel.
They may have done OK through rifling IF there was good engagement with the rifling. I doubt there would have been any advantage having the dart spin. We had 10 of these and we shot 10 but in one shot the projectile was blocked by a sabot in the HS footage so I just didn't post that. (video was getting long too)
The dad jokes are strong in this one. Lol. I hope to some day get to come down and shoot with you guys. Hope everyone is staying safe and staying well.
@@jawms I can see it now. 3 years from now the Taofledermaus viewers week will dwarf Burning Man...You guys need to book space in the Black Rock Desert.😉 We can make this happen!
These rounds perfectly exemplify why the Armor Piercing, Fin Stabilized, Discarding Sabot rounds are the mainstay of our M1A Abrams MBT fleet. Hats off to the Alexi for such amazing projectiles. Great job loading the rounds, and awesome video, guys!
Pretty much all modern tanks uses smoothbore gun for that purpose not only M1A Abrams. using a sub-caliber projectile allows for extremely high muzzle velocity.
Hey Jeff and OG! Thanks for all of the great entertainment over the years. The humor, the testing, the interaction with your viewers, and what I can only imagine tons of editing and learning. I'm am terribly sorry for the absence of Danny. I hope everyone is well, and I'll be here for the next video :-) (and most likely this one again). - A Fellow Jeff
The mirror on the old cell phone is meant for taking "selfies" as there is no screen to show what the camera is aiming for. Just being a smart ass 1 year after the latest comment. Thank you! ❤ Cool stuff!
These seem to fly like a rifle bullet. Would like to see how they would do at a long range target of say 50 yards and how they would preform if fired with a hotter load.
That would be really cool to see. I think they'd drop pretty fast, they're so light and slow, and the drag from the fins is going to start to have a major effect over longer distances. Could even be they'd start to wobble as they slow down.
Expanding version for home defense...I can hear the commercial now..."Turn the bad guy into ground chuck, but not worry about shooting someone through the wall! Safety first!"
Probably one of the most promising looking Slugs I’ve viewed on this channel it has real potential in the hunting and law enforcement scene would really like to see this round made commercial if it can still be accurate at around 1700 to 1900 ft./s
I feel like this shows we still have stuff to learn about ballistics. This slow little brass tube can clear through stuff some rifle rounds can't, and it doesn't tumble in fluids.
And this is why the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser has been killing Scandinavian moose for just short of 130 years. Ditto other 6.5mm cartridges. Great sectional density & penetration, they kill all out of proportion to their paper ballistics, and they don't need to be driven super fast to kill stone dead!
Man that Alexey guy really hits some home runs with his designs, these 2 knock it out of the park in a lot of aspects and the non frag round is a beaut. Gregg, your handling of Jeff's Fleshette is always a joy to observe and I enjoy both of your waffling on in the video's.
LMFAO at FLESHette _"Wait... Did he just imply Gregg was handling my junk?_ _......... WAIT.... Did he also just say I have abnormally small junk, too?!"_ -- Jeff, probably
@@tony66au hah That is true! Which, that made me think of the last sentence, but due to my scrambled eggs or a brain, then made me think of the two older commercials... 🥴 lol Beef - It's what's for dinner! Pork - The _Other_ White Meat! Ambiguity - The _SPICE_ of Conversations!
@@tony66au I'm from Minnesota, US, and I also have an extremely dry sense of humor. By far the best sort, although I'm _obviously_ biased! haha If I may make a recommendation... Check out Zefrank1's channel and his _True Facts_ series. I'd just stumbled across them recently and what a hoot he is! As is I Did A Thing's channel, but you may have heard of him being he's Aussie. Mind you, both are the *total* opposite of Toafledermaus' content, and even each other for that matter! 🍻
Flechettes has got a pretty bad rep. Most videos with them that I've seen show them tumbling, flying wild anywhere but at the target or simply being incredibly unimpressive when they manage to get it to hit the target without tumbling. This was nice break from that. They were impressively accurate and packed a punch blowing through the lead plate. The fragmenting version made an impressive temporary wound channel. And that was at half speed... It will be interesting to see if they are still stable at supersonic speeds and how much energy can be squeezed out of them before they break on being fired.
That’s because most flechette rounds are just a bunch of them packed into a 12 gauge. They’re pretty bad, but used as sabots they can be effective. The only way a bunch of flechettes can work is in a larger scale and usually from arial use. There’s a good video on flechette rockets from Vietnam.
Thanks guys that was very entertaining. I wasn't expecting the darts to be that accurate. The angled vs flat plate impact test was an awesome demonstration of the sloped armor principal. Keep up the good work lads I had a great laugh while learning stuff!! Cheers !
The segments can be adjusted for desired effect, if pushing the round up over 2000 fps you could still get penetration with shorter segments. Flying straight makes for a lot of possibilities
I think this was a great example of the importance of sectional density!!! I wish he mentioned the diameter of the dart. If I had to guess a roughly .30 caliber at 200+ grains the sectional density should be close to the other rounds. It’s largely the fact it’s brass or copper.
I know y’all didn’t have many rounds but I’d love to see that “hollow point” out at 50 yards for accuracy. Something that small and aerodynamic has the potential to reach wayyy out there and still knock deer down.
Can you imagine the armor piercing capability you might actually be able to get out of these loads if you really warmed up their velocity!! After watching how the projectiles behaved at about 1000fps I think they might actually be sturdy enough to push quite a bit faster!! This was a great video by the way!! I would be very interested in a follow-up video at some point in the future where you really push these projectiles to their limits and find out just how devastating they can be.
Wow... I've loved this channel since the early days playing with slomo and what I remember being a 50cc bike. So I've seen everything and some rounds that seem awesome but suck, some that seem stupid that are very effective, and rounds like this blow my mind. I understand a narrow hard projectile has better penetration but this round was slow and extremely viable.
Hey guys, some years ago I had the drawings for a very similar dart load, except the shell casing was made of stainless steel and there was a roll crimp (permanent) w cuts for the fins. The shell casing was reusable, the dart sat on a polymer disc which was supposed stay in the shell. This was supposed to be a quiet round. The kit came w the dart & plunger disc, you had to have Maxine or have machined the shell casing. Accurate to 60 yards was claimed. The firing discharge was meant to almost totally contained inside the stainless steel case, the reducing the report.
Very impressive. This is one of these rare flechette-designed projectiles, that actually worked! Much more often, these flechettes fly quite random and flechettes from a shotgun were not so much famous for laserbeam accuracity.(Maybe it worked that well, because it was flying subsonic? Hypersonic aerodynamics behave so different from subsonic. And arrow-shapes normaly fly well...in subsonic!) This projectiles were amazingly accurate. You made my day (I unvoluntary joined today that club of getting ill from corona and that pretty messed up my day.) So thank you for the enlightning, endertaining and educational video. Stay safe.
the point of the crimp is to create a bit of pressure when the primer goes of without a good crimp the primer would create enough pressure to move the round out of the shell immediatly thereby creating more space and lowering pressure and burning powder slower. for light rounds i even used to put cotton mixed with super glue to seal the round with extremely fast burning powder and i gain way more velocity
I neglected to identify which shells were crimped and which weren't. Half were and half weren't. Velocities didn't deviate that much. The "hot" one that broke 1000 fps had 12 grains of powder.
@@taofledermaus yea if the wad seals well in the chamber then it will build pressure in time, but really it is not recommended sometimes it is a hit or miss i am sure u had lots of those rounds that falls out of the barrel. in any case it all depends on the powder am not sure what are u using but a powder for 1oz will not work well for light loads, for light loads i can break 1350fps with 20grs Vectan prima V, or maybe A24 comparable to tightwad ,clays and maybe reddot
@@taofledermaus btw am not sure it is legal were u live, but i used to get a magnum .410 shell stick a bullet in the wad put it in the shell then stuff cotton all around it and dump super glue, i couldn't believe how smoking hot the round were leaving from a rifled .410
I've made brass and even steel darts for 12 gauge. The steel with a sharp point, at 175 grains, it did just over 1800 fps, and passed through a 3/8 in thick steel plate and a 10in concrete wall. These are highly illegal where I live, so I make them one at a time and shoot them immediately.
I would love to see that accuracy at range! That was totally awesome. I was gobsmacked when it went through the Lead Plate like it was butter! Keep em coming Alexi!
would love to see if you could suppress this, also, there is a reason it performs so well at subsonic, the violence of supersonic speed simply decreases performance on smaller sabots, and significantly decreases performance on hard targets that aren't dead on flat strikes, you saw a bit of that with apollo. the only other hot load sabot i can think of was 5.56 and it was very brittle due to it being tungsten(for those asking about depleted uramnium, NO the smoke will KILL YOU)
I like the hollow point. It reminds me of the round used by a suppressed UZI looking thing in the original Killzone video game. In the game it could one hit most bad guys. I suspect this one could do so against hogs, deer and felons as well. And they both look cool too... heh, he said 'gapping meat hole'... heh.
Absolutely outstanding performance ... by the projectiles, and a grand performance by the cast & crew. Seriously, it seems like a nice binary choice of projectiles with the "same" weight, accuracy, and recoil, with two separate & distinct purposes. Definitely worthy of further study, at various ranges, with various powder loads, just to see if it is scalable in that way. Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. 😁
It seems to me getting through the lead plate relies upon a combination of velocity, hardness, weight, and most especially sectional density. The dart has excellent sectional density, placing all of the energy at impact on a very small point compared to about anything else you’ve shot at the plate.
Hmm, maybe go with brass fins as well, solid bottom but drilled most of the way through. Press fit the penetrator or hollow point into the fins and then braze them into a solid unit. Actually, with a milling machine you could probably make the entire unit out of a single piece of brass. Machine a disk the same diameter as the fins and use that as a "pusher-plate" inside the base of the sabot. Bet you could go with hotter loads that way.
I believe the purpose behind using aluminum for the fins was to bring the center of balance farther up the dart and closer to the center of the diameter while still gaining the benefit of fin stabilization.
That was impressive...but, then again, Dr. Lavrov's concoctions usually are; that head-shot was one of the most amazing clips you've ever done. So much for protection from body-armor, huh? You guys have genuine intestinal fortitude showing anything that originated in Russia with public hysteria being what it is today; good on you.
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