13 REASONS WHY Is Not a Good Show 

why does no one talk about how twisted and evil Hannah was? she drove a dude to near insanity when he did nothing wrong.

The second they connected her killing herself with un returned love of her crush, who actually loved her but she wasn't aware - was the second they actually romanticized suicide. Hands down most stupid show I've wasted my time on. It is dangerous for the minds of 13-15 y/o impressionable teens.

In my opinion they made her sound kind of sadistic and manipulative in the tapes. If I were to hear those completely out of context with no idea of the rest of the show I'd guess she was some Saw-esque serial killer sending messages to her victims. I think that was another failure in characterisation for me.

"I don't even consider myself a star wars nerd" *cuts back to wall with star wars poster*

"im not even a big star wars fan" *has a big star wars poster behind him*

Probably the worst part of the show was how long it took clay to listen to the tapes. They literally just did it to make the show longer and to involve the other actors. In the book he listened to them all in one night because he was obsessed with trying to find his, and his mental state slowly deteriorating throughout the night.

The problem with depicting the suicide like they do is how potentially instructional it is. But I think the problem people bring up more is how much the series romanticizes suicide, especially with the girl's attitude on the tapes. It basically makes killing yourself and then, in a very contrived manner, making everyone who wronged you feel bad and getting the last word look cool.

The problem is that it's not really presented as art. It's supposed to be a PSA. They even met with mental health experts on how to make the show accurate and not potentially triggering, but then avoided every single piece of advice they were given. They ignored every guideline on how to portray suicide without making it harmful for those at risk in a way that is completely and utterly unacceptable. On top of it not having a good story, it is a breeding ground for copycat suicides and triggering suicidal thoughts in those that may have been mostly rid of them. Yes, it is technically art, but it is dangerous and the creators of this show handled the subject in a completely insensitive and unsafe way.

I did find myself hating Hannah Baker as a character. Not that she deserved to die (lol obviously), but the guilt tripping and cynical monologues when she was still alive just made her a very unlikable person. And, even if that would make her more deep than it seemed, because of her flaws and what not, it wasn't the intention of the makers to make her seem unlikable. They wanted to make her this sweet girl that was less superficial than the other students (which, in itself, is already superficial from the makers), that was philosophical, cynical, and all the -al words you can think of. To me she was even worse than some of the characters that were introduced during all of this. The intention of making her a certain kind of person was totally lost on me. Her character flaws would have been a good choice IF and only IF that actually meant something in the story....... but it didn't. She was still the victim we all have to feel sorry for in the end. That and of course the way they deal with suicide in the series was kind of toxic in my opinion. You have to want it yourself, if not, no one can help you. She went through shit, but certain characters (not talking about the rapist) did not deserve to be treated by her the way she did.

Something that really frustrated me in 13 Reasons Why was the blatant emotional manipulation of the audience through "shock-factor" scenes and reveals. And, mind you, this show is supposedly targeted at teens suffering from mental illness!? While the party episodes were downright disgusting in this regard, I think the episode with Clay's tape was the most symptomatic of this issue. The entire season had been building up to this point when we find out what offence this socially awkward nice-guy protagonist had to commit to earn himself a spotlight on one of Hannah's tapes. And since the viewers had by then figured out that the order of the tapes corresponds to the gravity of the offence, they would expect it to be something pretty horrible. Now, this was the perfect opportunity for the writers to subvert our image of Clay and stay in line with the show's central theme: even (seemingly) good people can and do cause pain to others. But lo and behold, we've just been gaslighted this entire time! Clay *is* actually a flawless saint. In fact, he's so special that Hannah just flushed the entire concept of the tapes right into down the crapper so she could make this out-of-context tape to assure Clay that he really is the nicest guy alive. Of course, not before thoroughly fucking him and, by proxy, the audience right in the head with dramatic and emotionally manipulative build-up. So yeah... fuck this show, honestly. Fuck it so hard.

I fee like this show romanticises suicide by making her a messed up version of a revenge angel.

the most unrealistic part is the fact that people were on their phones so often and that everyone was in a group chat. because no one has everyone's number in high school

Love it, you hit every point I had and then some. The "reason" for blaming Clay is total BS. No means no unless it means yes?!?!

Wait, why would liking Star Wars make you a nerd? That's one of the most profitable and influential film franchises of all time, how does that make you a nerd? Now, knowing that was Jedi Master Ki-Adi Mundi who died in the Battle of Mygeeto in Episode III, and that he comes from a race with a low population, so he's one of the few Jedi allowed to marry, THAT makes you a nerd. Liking Star Wars itself doesn't.

Season 1: Thirteen Reasons Why Season 2: Several Reasons Hanging

reads the title: no shit

I think a lot of the backlash was because the show creators were presenting this show as a wonderful way to spread awareness about suicide, as a helping hand to those considering it, as a way to help people out of the dark place suicidal thoughts put you. But it was so incredibly toxic and triggering to people in that exact place. It makes it seem as though killing yourself is a fantastic way to get revenge on others, to make everybody care about you once you're gone, a way to get back at those who have hurt or upset you, kind of like a "that'll show them!" thing. Also, for anybody suicidal, watching a girl slit her wrists in the bathtub is just a fucking terrible idea. The show creators were told by several professionals not to put a graphic suicide scene in the show, and they did it anyway. They APPROACHED mental health professionals for their opinions because they wanted to present this thing as something helpful to those contemplating suicide, then ignored their advice.

"And it was bad." me: *clicks like*

Plot twist Hannah didn't die, she's psychotic and made the tapes to make everyone go crazy and feel bad about themselves.

It fails as art and it fails at being a helpful portrayal of suicide. You seriously cannot shit on this show enough, in my opinion

"The gay one" god I hate how that pretty much can sum up quite a few gay characters in teen TV shows, I haven't watched 13 reasons but I have watched Riverdale, from the second we see Kevin Keller it is obvious he is gay, they make sure it's obvious. It is great that the media is including more diverse sexualities and genders, but come on, sometimes it's kinda insulting to see such obvious sterotypes these days.

My main issues with 13 Reasons why: - Hanna is just... unlikeable? Seriously, just as you said, it feels like they tried to make her into a MPDG, then decided to make her "normal", but in the end she is just this weird mess in between. - Suicide victims are already extremely stigmatized... why would you make a series showing a victim being SO petty? Because she really was portrayed that way, having this weird "revenge" on all these people after dying, basically outing a rape experience that wasn't even hers... I don't know, suicide as revenge is just vile as a plot device. - The writers clearly avoided embracing the fact that the whole series was about feminism. They reference it a lot, but treat it as a taboo to the very end. I think that if you are not socially sensitive, you would never understand that sexism was the main issue in Hanna's life, so I feel they needed to be more open about that. - And... Tony. He was just a Magical Gay Latino, selflessly solving the white kids problems. It still annoys me to this day that in the closing shot of the final episode Clay is riding on the front of the car instead of his fucking boyfriend!

What made me really sad and angry about the show is that it makes it look like people were sooo affected by her suicide. Teachers, parents, other students, even her bullies, all those people who didn't even know or noticed her, were so devastated by her death. But in reality, people don't really care! I saw it! Someone at my school commited suicide and people had forgotten it just two days later. If people don't care when you're alive, they won't suddely care once your dead. Your suicide only hurts the people who still love you, like your parents. The show presents suicide as a method to get back at people and 'be understood' in death. It makes it so as if by killing yourself you can force everyone to finally spare a thought on you, on what you went through and on what they might have done to you. But that's just not true. Also. I think the show tried too hard to be 'deep'. The whole point of Clay's arch was that in the end the big sin he commited was to do nothing at all. He is presented as the one who could have pulled her out of her bad situation, but just didn't do it. But she didn't want his help, she didn't ask for it and she outright refused it, and all the while Clay's just a teenage boy with a bunch of insecurities and problems of his own. Throughout the show I was waiting for his tape to finally hear what he did to contribute to her suicide, but the reason turned out to be flimsy and really not his fault. Honestly, the show would have been better if he had turned out to be the worst of them all. But instead, I spent 13 hours of my life watching a completely innocent boy going crazy during a phenomenal guilt trip his dead love interest sent him on. By the way, the progress of the deterioration of Clay's mental state was the most interesting and well executed thing about the show.

I don't quite agree with what you said at the end, a movie needs to consider its consequences in real life. Would it be fine if a movie taught people exactly how to make the ingredients for a deadly weapon and then how to use it to murder someone in detail? Of course not that would be very worrying, and suicide is worse because it is way more common than murders and depressed people are very easy to influent, I say this as a depressed person. The show glamorizes suicide, it's basically "revenge fantasy" as it's called, which many depressed people dream about, finally getting the attention, finally feeling like something they did matters to people and the world. It also shows hannah visiting a mentor and it being very unproductive and unhelpful, which is so fucking damaging to young people watching as psychologists save lives. If the show wants to be realistic, it needs to think of the very real consequences.

this review is probably one of the only ones I've found out there that criticize this show as art. Also I'd like to add another point. I feel the only reason why clay was on the tapes was because the writers need a reason for him so it makes sense but in the end it felt lazy because of how petty the reason was. I didn't like Hannah's character because of how petty she was to clay and it ironically made me hate her as a character. Thank you for making this review I really appreciated it.

13 Reasons Why: Baker wants the cute boys to like her, but since she lacks any personality other than what was stated above, nobody likes her except that one guy. That one guy: Shit shes ded now

The gay one, not to be mistaken for the one that happens to be gay. 😂

Considering someone a nerd for liking Star Wars is on the same level of considering someone Italian for liking pizza. Everybody knows it. Most people like it. It's so broad and reaches so many cultures it cannot be attributed to any hobby or identity whatsoever.

“I’m not much of a Star Wars fan.” *next scene* Has Star Wars poster behind self.

The show over simplifies very complex issues (depression, suicide), when in reality they are much more complex than 13 Reasons Why would want you to believe.

The biggest complication with the suicide scene itself is the fact that it does break a lot of rules posted for showing suicide in media. Art aside, it is highly triggering (And in the actual sense, not the 'omg im sooooo offended lol fml #sotriggerd') for anyone who has either attempted suicide in the past or lost someone to suicide. And the fact that they weren't called on it kills me. Better depictions of suicide in a more artsy sense have had the book thrown at them because they bent the rules a bit, but this show completely breaks all the rules and get away with it because...? I guess because they give a trigger warning? Which originally, they didn't even have. But even with that warning, they still get away with graphically showing suicide take place in 'real time'. Which despite trigger warnings, is not okay. But they still get away with it. Which makes no goddamn sense to me. They could've done a much better job in their art with the scene, as well as following all needed guidelines, but didn't. Instead, every suicidal person who watches it is given a how-to guide on suicide.

16:22 dude.... this is so flawed. People say the suicide scene might lead to copycat suicides for a reason. The american foundation for suicide prevention has a whole list what Not To Do when depicting suicide in media. This is for a reason, its not just to fuck up creators. And it pisses me out so much when critics like you fail to see that and go gushing about how well executed that scene was, i don't give a fuck if it was well made. It tangibly harms suicidal people by giving them a very detailed how to go on about a successful suicide. Not to go to far, my best friend had attempted suicide 2 years ago, her MO was pills. after watching this show her MO changed to, you fucking guessed it, slicing her forearms and she had TWO attempts in the month of July of this year. Both with the same thing, so it isn't like her MO changed each time to try and succeed. There was a very clear and also subconscious influence. She hated the show just as much as I did (i'm also severely depressed and deal with constant suicidal ideation). So, if you wanna go and critique the show as art, and talk about lazy writing and poor character development, go ahead. But be more respectful and informed about a topic that has been rightfully criticised. If you don't understand why people were pissed off for the suicide scene because YOU see it from the art and acting point of view, don't go just dismissing all the other claims that have a fucking scientifically reason to exist

The book has a lot of problems, but from what I've heard it is much better than the show. ESPECIALLY in the pacing and overarching plot. In the book Clay listens to the tapes all in one night, and the entire book is simply about him listening to the tapes and going to the locations. There isn't really much of a plot outside of it. It makes SO much more sense. I also found Hannah a lot more bearable in the book, she was still a little over dramatic but they spent a lot of time explaining her thoughts through the tapes and her dialogue. The story is still flawed but felt a lot better, and actually felt like it got its message across more clearly. That's at least my view on it

They forced us to believe Clay did something wrong. That was stupid. But I could relate to various situations in the show and any of those has nothing to do with suicide. I think some people they can get a good message, but not the one that was intended

Instead of Hannah killing herself because she couldn't take it anymore, or because she felt trapped, or literally any other reason, she did it for revenge at those who wronged her. And that's a big yikes.

I hate that mass text trope because who the fuck has everyone from their highschool's number

Star Wars is only the most popular thing on planet Earth and you can't hide from it anywhere in the Solar System, of course you're a nerd for liking it. You nerds, and your niche interests.

Humanizing Rapists: It Can Be Done But Why Would You

I was really offended by this show. When I watched the episode ending with Hannah saying "and by the way... I'm still dead.", I just couldn't watch anymore. I've really never seen anything more obnoxious than portraying suicide as something to be used as revenge. But the way she speaks in the narration... Pretentious, bullying, sarcastic and selfabsorbed, as is she had the upper hand somehow. That simply just pisses me off... I was almost shouting at the TV going, "well, you're the one who killed yourself!" If the narration isn't even distraught, there's something seriously wrong with this...

*Most* people like star wars now, not just nerds, which makes the cliche even more stupid

Here's my only problem with your review: you sort of overlooked the _reason_ people hate the suicide scene so much. Physically showing or even describing suicide can be triggering and can cause others to feel the urge to commit suicide themselves more strongly, and can give them a blueprint for what to try. In particular, the graphic nature of the scene actually caused me to be ill to the point that I almost vomited; that was not because it was gruesome, but because it took me back to my darkest place and presented me with the visceral image of things I was still fighting to move past, and that isn't isolated to me. I've heard and read dozens of accounts of the same feeling, and the psychological studies into copycat suicides are extensive and important to recognize. Depicting suicide almost always causes suicide rates to spike, particularly when done on a TV show that pretends to cater to the audience that would be impacted by suicidal ideation. What's even more problematic is when you combine that scene, out of the vacuum, with the rest of the series, which very much paints Hannah as the virtuous hero _because of_ her suicide. It makes that gruesome scene appear righteous and reflects the idea that the only true understanding and "fame" and "love" comes from death, and that those who kill themselves are holy heroes, martyrs and lessons. That's simply not true, and the way the show depicts those who commit suicide as angels who were beaten is frankly wrong. It ignores the truth and grit of the issue while masquerading as a dark look into reality. It's not, and therein lies my main problem with the show. This comment got a little overzealous, and only about a third of this was actually aimed at this review, but I had to get it off my chest.

I agree, the show was boring and each episode dragged on way too long. I watched to tape 5 then skipped to tape 12 and didn't feel like I missed anything. It was like the other tapes didn't matter. Not to mention the way Hannah talked on those tapes was so monotone that I nearly fell asleep during half the episodes. I've been in that situation before, when emotions and thoughts buildup so much you just have to let them out in any means possible and trust me, most of it isn't a cohesive story and there is a lot of crying involved. Those tapes should have been covered in tears with multiple crying parts because if something is bad enough to drive you to suicide, it is bad enough to make you cry. But even on the rape tape she didn't cry, not once. Just in the flash backs. The only thing the show succeed in was making you feel depressed.

This is a great video essay but you really lost me at the very end by saying that art can only be judged as art. A review focusing on artistic elements is certainly a good thing to have, and I really enjoyed your analysis in those regards. However it doesn't mean that any other form of analysis, criticism or review is inapplicable. Especially when something might be causing deaths, I think that's a pretty important concern for people to address and a matter of public interest, even if it's strictly speaking not an artistic concern.

THANK YOU, SOMEONE FINALLY TALKED ABOUT ZACH

This is off topic, but you're so beautiful.

just a quick note: if hannah knows clay didnt deserve to be on the tapes, why tf would she make him go through all that?? didnt she know he had mental health issues? even if she didnt, its impossible for her to not know that the tapes she sent could create them

I saw this video a while back and disagreed with you. When 13 Reasons Why first came out, I found myself defending it against the criticism, mostly because I read the book early in my adolescence and have a personal attachment with it. But then I rewatched it and took everything you said under consideration... I realized how unrealistic, unrelatable and manipulative the show was. The show never mentioned how important it is to have thick skin and ditch the victimhood mentality, especially in high school, and instead glamorized a utopia where everyone should just be nice and problem solved. Having everyone be caring and cooperative will never be possible. Sometimes you need to learn how to brush off "bullying" to a certain extent; if Hannah had just learned that rather than allowing every little thing that bothered her take a toll, then half of her "problems" would have been gone. That being said, thank you for making this video and analyzing where 13RW went wrong. You made great points that were useful when reevaluating the show. Keep it up.

You deserve more subscribers.

The problem with the suicide scene, is how it portrays the potential catharsis someone can get out of self-harm. Because people who are depressed quite often don't feel like they can, or even want to get better. They want to wallow in their misery, and to let everyone else know how sad they are, instead of actually getting better. It's the biggest danger of depression, where you enter a feedback loop, where the more you isolate yourself from society, the more fucked up your worldview becomes, and the worse you feel about yourself and your life, causing you to withdraw even more, until the logical breaking point. And that breaking point, suicide, carries that catharsis for the mentally ill. No more pain or suffering on your part, and everyone else has to truly understand how bad they were to you, and how sad they made you, and how it just wasn't fair... The problem with the show is the fundamental premise. Girl kills herself and gets revenge from the grave. Every depressed person's fantasy. And it glorifies that fantasy, Hannah's white knight goes out and fights for her, now he understands just how bad he made her feel! And it's literally the worst message. Shows that do depression right are BoJack Horseman and Neon Genesis Evangelion. When it comes down to it, you are responsible for your own happiness. Suicide isn't poetic or dramatic, it's just shit, and it is never an option. You have to want to get better, you have to want to climb out of the hole, because you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel if you never lift your head, and 13 reasons why has its head bowed down as low as it can, to wallow in as much darkness and self-pity as possible. So yes, this show will make depressed people more depressed, and suicidal people more suicidal. It does the exact opposite of what you should do on every front. If you want to judge it as art, wow it's depressed teenage poetry "Nobody understands me, I'm so special and unique but the world hates me, it's not fair." Wow. Such art. Many feel. I get that it's not a PSA, but if a film was telling you 100% unironically to eat babies, you would probably criticise it for it's message, so why is it different when it's telling depressed people to kill themselves?

The problem is not with judging a show or a film purely from an artistic perspective - the problem is with assuming that the artwork exists in a vacuum. Media influences the way we behave, think, and act. It's why the US army advertises through films like Independence Day, it's why Coca-Cola associates itself heavily with Santa, and all in all, it's *why marketing works*. Because of this, there are guidelines for film-making on handling topics such as suicide. Thirteen Reasons Why completely disregarded these guidelines. Just like any other show or film handling mental illness, depression and suicidal thoughts, Thirteen Reasons Why can have an influence on those who are struggling, and that is important. In fact, I think one can consider the political message and the real-life impact of a piece of art when judging a piece of art from an artistic perspective. After all, if we can't judge a work of art on its true impact, then how do we know if our judgement of it is correct at all?

I loved her suicide scene only because of her mom's performance. It took me by surprise because I was expecting the mom to scream and do all sorts of cliche stuff, but she didn't; she was in shock and didn't want to believe that her daughter was dead. The way she kept trying to tell herself that Hannah was okay still haunts me.

Well you don't necessarily have to be mentally ill to commit suicide. It's just seemingly uncommon. There can be rational and logical arguments made in the defense of the person choosing to end their own life. One being that their quality of life has been reduced to the point where it's not worth living or perhaps they are in grave physical of emotional pain and distress (which may or may not have been caused by an event and not inherent mental illness) and to live is to suffer indefinitely...living turns into a game of horrific survival, not living at all...where which suicide becomes less of an answer and more of an end to suffering that would otherwise continue. Not everyone's life is worth living and it doesn't always get better. None of us have a right to judge whether another person's choice to and reason for killing themselves is insane enough to discredit it to the degree of saying "they must have been mentally ill, else suicide would not be an option." Beyond that, there are situations of which most of us are not privy to, in which it would be crazier to live than to die. Until you're in that other person shoes, it may seem impossible to fathom their reasoning for doing what they do. But it doesn't always mean they've got screws loose. Besides that subject, I agree with most of your criticism of the show. And yes, Hannah actually taking the time to record those tapes is highly unlikely and far from realistic. Because even if a person had valid reasons for taking that life, when they've made the decision, they aren't usually in the frame of mind to do what Hannah did. And it's even more unlikely that those tapes would reach each of the intended either. They probably would have been confiscated long before they reached everyone. Or been lost to some other form of interference.

The first picture wasn't even bad. It was her going down a slide and instead of telling people that she just gets upset that people believe the only other person saying anything. I have a pretty grey take on suicide and even I find most of her reasons ro be stupid and mostly a result of her just getting upset instead of actually doing anything. I had to stop and drop this series because of that and how so over the top and cliché the characters are depicted

When a person is depressed, "miniscule" is not a thing. This is a very disappointing part in otherwise pretty coherent analysis. It seems like you're under-researched in the mental illness department. What's easy to deal with for a healthy brain can be undoable for a depressed one. Also, often times what's not objectively a big deal, is a big deal for the one experiencing it.

I only watched th first three episodes, and it was the pace that put me off the most. I have read the book, and the pace was really well done. clay's side of the story actually takes place in one night. the book benefits from that immensely, just as the show suffers from dragging it out.

I haven’t seen the show, but I saw the suicide scene and goddamn it was even more graphic than the reports I’d seen.

The main reason why they shouldn't have the suicide scene is because a lot of people watch the show because it became very popular and a lot of that audience could be depressed or suicidal and showing something like that could hurt them both mentally and physically. Every time someone shows me that scene or that scene pops up I have to look away because I used to self harm and seeing that puts me back into the mindset of when I used to sit in the bathroom and do that and I gives me flashbacks to those moments. I've cried so many times after seeing the scene because it put me back in the mindset of *"I deserve it"* and it makes me think about people telling me to *"remember to go down the road and not across"* and I've almost started self harming again because of it. THAT is why that scene should be taken out. I'm an artist, It's my JOB to look at something from an artistic standpoint and I couldn't even watch it because it was way too graphic.

I agree with most of this, I was extremely bored by the story. And the fact that they renewed this shite and cancelled Sense8 is just outrageous.

I legitimately thought you were going to talk about a show called "Why" and give 13 reasons as to why it is bad.

Hannah: "You're a real nerd aren't you?" Real Teens Translation: You a whole ass nerd out here

"i'm not even a big star wars fan" *has a star wars poster*

13 Reasons Why missed it's own point. Because it isn't about suicide, it is about survivor's guilt. It is about living with the fact that you might have led someone to self annihilation and now having to confront that. For perhaps the rest of your life. If it were about suicide, we wouldn't see the tapes, we wouldn't see anything past the act itself. Because that's suicide, it is a final final act. There is no going back, no reflection, no revenge. You cease to be there for the after math. That it is read as being about suicide, about Hannah, that it is sold with that message, IS the biggest problem with this show. And, I realize where this trouble starts. A lot of these "awareness" shows lack what I'd call an "academic curiosity". That sounds fairly pretentious, but hear me out. Most of these shows, including 13 Reasons Why are written from the perspective of those that have not actually suffered from the subject of discussion: suicidal tendencies. That isn't a problem in and of itself, but it also seems to do nothing to investigate those emotions vicariously, or to...incorporate the view of those suffering in earnest. They are mostly sympathetic, yet ultimately disingenuous. They seem to acknowledge that suicide is a bad thing, yet play it for sensationalism. And in it's ignorance, it's lack of consideration on those outside of the broader audience, it sent a LOT of people a bad message. It tells people that someone CAN use suicide as revenge, and that it could be effective. Let me be purely clear here: Suicide is the act of the victim alone. It cannot be used as revenge, and in attempting you will never see its effects on others. Suicide is final. And to insinuate that you might use it against someone, is unbelievably cruel. I am extremely sympathetic to the victims of suicide, and the families that have lost loved ones to suicide. This isn't about judging those that have lost their lives, it is about eliminating the idea that your life could ever be a tool to use again another human being.

13 reasons why 13 reasons why isn't good

Hannah was one of the worst female tv characters. She was sadistic, whiny with zero personality.

I think the show is interesting. Because the book, didn't give enough insight or go enough into the trauma. So I watched the show in days, Because the subject matter was very heavy. And for me it's impossible to marathon a show like this in a night. With this show, I've watched videos where the show is praised or hated. I feel like both make sense. Because the show is being talked about. I found this very interesting and I understood you viewpoint about the show.

Art doesn't get a pass on something like showing a scene that might compel a person towards suicide... It would like saying, don't judge my sculptures made out of human bodies that i created to look like a totem pole. Against popular beliefs art has it's boundaries and a code of ethics... i was onboard with your POV until the suicide scene. It is a necessity to see it from a suicidal person to actually understand the giant cringe train wreck of a show this was.

Its a show, but it marketed itself as a PSA and it did everything wrong for something that claims to want to prevent suicide.

The reason why they always shit on Star Wars rather than literally _any_ other sci-fi franchise is because, paradoxically, this is the only one pretty much every audience will get. If the guy said something about, say, Picard, at least some people would be like "wait, who is he talking about? And why does she call him a nerd for it, is it something I missed?". But with good ole' Han Solo they can go "oh, right, yeah Star Wars is for nerds, only nerds care about Han Solo, Chewbacca, Luke Skywalker, the dark side, the Empire and the stormtroopers. Good think I'm not one of these losers". It's like every time they bring up Einstein's formula just to establish that this particular character is an egghead and everybody around them is like "WTF are you talking about?" even though any kid over 10 years of age would be familiar with E=mc2, even if they wouldn't be able to actually name any of its components. Or like in Angels & Demons they had to establish that English was considered a language of heretics like "Shakespeare" ("hey, that's the guy who wrote that thing with the skull!") or "Chaucer" ("who the fuck? Oh, right, named right after Shakespeare so probably a bigass writer too").

Okay I agree with a lot of things, but I feel like you missed something there when you said most of the things happening to her were minor and irrelevant. What you meant is that they were OBJECTIVELY irrelevant, but I understand the character of Hannah was supposed to have some pretty bad mental health issue (probably anxiety mostly, with some PTSD symptoms by the end) and trust me, it's quite realistic for pretty miniscule things to feel huge in someone's head, especially if they somehow pile up. What you are 100% right about, however, is that they should have SHOWN those issues, focused more on what was happening inside her head than the objective, because I don't really understand how we can possibly try to make people understand the topic of suicide having left that out?? And to your later notes, mental illness doesn't just mean depression. She did it as a form of revenge. It's not caring as much as wanting to shove it in their faces. She did it by dying and that sure isn't healthy, it's tunnel-vision thinking (which is also a very characteristic symptom of certain personality disorders)

2 years later and 13 reasons why cause a spike in suicides

I've never seen the show, but the suicide scene Taylor showed made me feel sick. As a person with a history of self harm, seeing such anguish, blood, and pain was horrifying. What scared me more, though, was how I reacted to it. I looked at that scene and thought "Wow, killing yourself is a lot easier than I thought." That scene gave me the urge to cut, and sparked some of my suicidal thoughts back up. That's really dangerous. Think about how damaging that could be to someone who is actively contemplating suicide? And I'll be honest: Pills would have been better. Dying by overdose is long and painful. If it doesn't work, you could end up with permanent brain damage. I considering overdosing on my depression medication at one point, but I found out that would cause seizures and be a slow, painful process. The way the show frames Hannah's suicide, someone can think "that looks painful, but it's quick" and decide that's the best way to do it

And jeff wasn't in the book at all he's a made up character. Lol

I personally think that some of the minuscule reasons affecting her so badly could have been explained by her mental health problems, but the show does not mention her personal problems even once. Only other characters are blamed and I think it is a mistake made by the creators to not mention depression and other problems she might have. They fail to show that not only was the bullying a reason for her suicide, Hannah had some serious underlying problems that should have been addressed. I also disliked Hannah because of the almost sadistic manner in which she treats the other characters on the tapes. Literally as if she is enjoying their stress and fear and shame. For example, if she had really known Clay and cared about him, she would have known it was a bad idea to make him one of the last people she addresses, and to tell him he should not be on the tapes, while Clay is getting more and more upset. I think that is something she could have prevented.

In the book nobody gets raped so they just added that part. And there isn't really any character development because it takes place in one night

A quote from my sister regarding this show when she watched the first season 5 years ago: “It goes nowhere, and it takes too long to get there.”

i know this video is old and you probably know better by now, but right before you defended the suicide scene you judged it "in a vacuum," as if media can ever exist in a vacuum. it doesn't and it never has. there's been a rise of of suicides ever since this show came out. professionals in this area of psychology have warned the show not to risk it and they didn't listen. media affects real life just as real life affects media. there's no vacuum and there are always consequences which is why any producer of media needs to be aware of everything they put out, being conscious of what people will absorb from the product rather than to just see it as "art" and pretend that it ends there. seriously, this is basic media & communication. i read your video description and it doesn't feel like you get it, no matter how many people have said what i said. it's always better to fail artistically than to fail socially.

The pacing is probably bad because they stretched out a very short book into 13 hours :P

Also I hate the fact that Mr. Porter was on the tapes. She wouldn’t tell him , so how is he going to help? He can’t!!!! The fact that she expects him to legit run after her is so pompous...ugh. It’s honestly not like Mr. Porter didn’t try. Saziakdnsifn I hate everything

As for the catcalling thing, it's generally more temporarily bothersome to most. I have friends who would respond with "You don't need to tell me, I already know." And others who would yell at the person. It really depends on the person. To me, if Hannah were a real person she would respond like most do.

thought it had some interesting scenes and episodes but like most Netflix shows too many episodes - shoulda been 8 reasons why and compact into a more solid show run

it's weird that Selena Gomez didn't even know what highschoolers are like She was one not that long ago 😂 I doubt she went to a public school though..

One problem I had was that the teens cussed in basically every sentence and as most teens do cuss they don’t cuss every chance they get(not all)

I know it was from a book, but I feel like the writers of the show should be pretty embarrassed about this show especially after Stranger Things debuted. This show has little to no character development, (which stranger things has A TON of) and pretty much dances around the issue of mental illness. I suffer from depression and while everyone’s mental illness experience is different, I cringed through the few episodes that I tolerated watching. I feel like the only audience it would appeal to is young adults/younger teens yet it shows explicit and graphic images of HOW Hannah killed herself, showing blood everywhere, which is a bad move on getting suicide messages out, because it is more triggering than helpful. AHH rant over sorry I haven’t even watched your video yet but I’ll start now lol

I liked the series but I still liked your critique. The episodes were often too long and Hannah Baker wasn't quite as she described herself and most of the problems were minor (but then it isn't possible for a mentally healthy person to understand suicidal people). Really enjoyed the video since aou weren't bashing the series :) I really hope that there won't be a second season (even though the ending suggested it), but that season would be quite horrible I believe

I do agree with many if not all of your points. I've been a writer since I could spell and it has been my passion to master my craft. With that said, I still enjoyed this series. The main idea I ended up coming away with was the pursuit of happiness and how these characters try to find it. Were there shitty cliché ones, yeah, most of the jocks fell into them, but their motivations were always pretty strong to me, maybe its because I just got out of high school, but I remember seeing alot of these types of people, given they were never as blunt or dramatic and long as them but they did exist. Clay I empathized with since I am pretty similar to him and my girlfriend who I had a crush on for years and only recently started dating, if she had done the same shit Hannah did I would have some major trouble getting through it too. But back to the main idea I took away from it, Clay thought he would be happy if he dated Hannah, Hannah thought she would be happy if she was just liked by people, and it kept going like that for all the characters, I think that was what I liked about the series, the characters didn't want power, or world domination, or death, they just wanted petty shit that they thought was important and would make them happy. Maybe I enjoyed it because were as every other series or movie is trying to raise the stakes and make everything so important, this series if you take away outside influence, was just about flawed characters figuring out how this event affects them or how they could be blameless.

I feel as if he didn’t watch the show but just read a summary. There’s definitely characterization for Hannah, and even though she’s dead, she still is a very big character in the story.

You manage to articulate your points so simply and extremely well. When watching the series I had so many of the same thoughts as you, but didn't really know how to explain what exactly was off with the show. I'm gonna go binge the rest of your videos now :)

I hated this show, but I love the actors and I feel so bad for them. The guy who plays clay is in a band that's really good. The guy who plays alex is in other movies and is great(imho). Plus the girl who plays ani and the guy who plays bryce were bullied off their social media, which is gross

Ok but no that suicide scene is terrible. Do you have any idea how fucking triggering that is? Like if this show is suppose to be made for people with mental illness than showing them a scene that graphic would trigger it! In the book she doesn't even kill herself that way she overdoses

Is me Brock here to say this is another great video essay.

Honestly some overdramatised soaps deal with rape and trauma better than 13RSW, like Coronation street with Bethany and David Platt's storylines (separate storylines btw) or Hollyoaks, even a few animes have dealt with it better (Banana fish).

In reference to showing the suicide scene- Next time, please include a trigger warning before showing a graphic scene like that. It wasn’t necessary for the video, and I found it incredibly triggering. Please be considerate of people who may be triggered by seeing that kind of stuff.

Art doesn't exist in a vacuum. All works have real world consequences, especially works marketed at teens/young adults. Because the show's target audience is so young and impressionable, it has a duty to at the very least follow SOME of the guidelines from experts that the writers SOUGHT OUT and subsequently ignored. The multiple copycat suicides that have taken place after the show's premiere prove this. I understand wanting a more artistic approach to critiquing the show, and I wish I could see more reviews on the writing/casting/cinematography as well, but to say that people shouldn't be so concerned about the implications of the show's hamfisted message and portrayal of suicide and rape? Nah. People have their concerns for a reason. This was a great review though! I loved your points on how unrealistic the portrayal of modern high schoolers was. The forced "wit" was absolutely cringeworthy and "FML forever" made me want to cancel my netflix subscription. Also, the show IS agonizingly slow. I couldn't make it past 6 episodes, the pacing is godawful.

only 13 year olds like it

I dont understand why "liking star wars" = super nerd. Star Wars is pretty much the definition of mainstream now, it's the biggest movie franchise in history - liking it makes you an average human on earth, not a nerd. Plus, the very idea of 'nerddom' these days is pretty much outdated, since the things that stereotypical "nerds" like, like comics and films and sci fi etc are now multi-billion dollar industries that all kinds of people indulge in. At your average high school these days, "nerd" is no longer a viable insult. People don't get bullied anymore for being smart and kinda geeky. It just shows that this show that's meant to be about modern day teens was written by an old dude who has no idea what planet he's living on.

10:30 And no, it is extremely agonizingly slow.

Why was zach on the tapes? He only stole some useless piece of paper with a drawing. He did nothing wrong to her, he genuinely liked her but she misunderstood.

I think the worst thing about the show is that it basically says you have to have 13 clear cut reasons to commit suicide, if you have suicidal thoughts or commit suicide then you have a mental health problem, and anyone can have one, no matter home seemingly normal or great your life is.

was hoping you'd show a warning right before "the scene" y'know, the last episode scene hahaha I agree with the points you've made, and I love how organized you present your criticisms

Hannah this is a nerdy line “That’s like jotaro without star platinum.”