What a great interview. I love Steven’s perspective. When I was a fully believing member I definitely felt many times very uplifted and spiritually fed, even though today I don’t believe in Joseph as a prophet or any group that claims it’s spiritual lineage through him. Really cool interview from a different outside perspective.
I love this guy! He tries to see the good of everyone and all sides of the argument. I love someone like him with an open mind and open heart. We get so much farther with his kind of attitude! No black and white thinking. Mercy. Love. And he is a lot of knowledge, as well of a love of Christ. I can't express enough how much I resonate with him and his thoughts! His outlook on Mormonism, Christianity and people in general is exactly where I try to land.
I really feel like this interview has been exactly what I was looking for. My last tie to the church is the book of Mormon, but I haven't been able to get rid of it. Aside from the race/blood ties, manifest destiny, and Nephi killing Laban, I became Christian through the book of Mormon and really hold it dear to my heart. But I don't believe the LDS church is "true" or good for people, and because it hides things from it's members, my faith crisis had thrown me close to atheism. This interview is the first time I've heard that it's okay to be in my weird place of not wanting to be Mormon anymore and associated with the church, but also not tossing away the book of Mormon. It also validates my positive feelings about the bom without requiring me to also assume the church attached to it is "true" too. I feel like I can breathe and like there really can be a God out there that speaks to us in different ways and it's up to us to be smart about how we take that in. I love the comment he made about man attempting to control spirituality by putting a house on it (a church) and enacting rules etc, and how that is when things start to go south and stray from what is initially attractive to Christian teachings. ❤️🙏 Thank you so much for having him on Mormon stories!!
I hope that eventually you are able to live with the fact that there is no good evidence for any god and all religious beliefs fall flat on their face because they all stumble over their own feet by their own proclamations and contradictions. If you end up caring about truth enough you might research a bit about bias, epistemology, foundational presuppositions, the logical absolutes, the default position, standards of evidence based on the type of claim, burden of proof, fallacies, and skepticism.
@@ScottBub for me the main evidence for God is in the lives of individuals, and it is not independently verifiable by others, but only known to that person. I know about the types of psychological phenomena you are discussing, and yet I have seen evidence that convinces me that God is there, despite my knowledge of those things. As a person somewhat educated about those bias-related phenomena, I am more careful about ascribing my experiences to a divine being. However, I also don't subscribe to what would be another fallacy: that just because these cognitive biases exist, it would be impossible for God to provide me enough evidence to convince me of his existence. In other words, my response to the existence of these cognitive biases is not: "I might as well give up, because any miraculous thing that happens in my life is probably just confirmation bias." Rather, it just means I have to be more careful in coming to those determinations. It's true, in some sense it might be "safer" to just cut it off at the source, and decide (by an act of will) to not ascribe any coincidence or unlikely event to the supernatural. But "safer" from what? Probably, it would keep me "safe" from the ridicule of others, or from the pain of realizing (later on) that I was deceived. But it also cuts me off from the possibility of experience with the divine. I'd rather take the risk of being seen as an idiot, and have the chance of that connection, if that makes sense. The chance, in other words, that there is meaning to anything.
@@JesseBardsley if it’s not independently verifiable then it IS confirmation bias that you are using to rationalize your beliefs. If you care about what is true then you’d first have to discard all prior beliefs and narratives in your head. Then determine what type of biases we/you are likely to commit while assessing a claim. After we have to understand what shortcuts in reasoning we take and what type of reasoning is fallacious. Then we have to determine what methodologies are sound and which are not sound and are unreliable. Then we have to determine what reasonable standards of evidence are and where the burden of proof rests for a claim. If we take all that into consideration you are making an extreme error right off the bat. The question isn’t whether we are cutting off the possibility to experience the divine, but whether there is anything divine to experience in the first place. Because your prior beliefs and experiences are biasing your starting point. You are starting off by believing it is true before even asking whether it’s true. So, you may think that you are being rational and only making a small exception but your whole epistemology is flawed because you are believing and then tying experiences to that belief afterwards.
@@ScottBub no, if it's not independently verifiable that just means that it can't be proven to others. In science, if we do an experiment, any researcher can reproduce it. But if I say that I prayed to God for an answer and next day a miracle came, nobody else can independently confirm that. I am the only one that knows whether I prayed or not. Determining the likelihood that the miracle happened by chance is more what I am referring to.
I am referring to people who are so afraid of confirmation bias, that even if they see a huge miracle like that in their lives, they're afraid to attribute anything supernatural to it, even if the odds are astronomical that it just happened as a random coincidence.
Hello, I'm a member of the LDS Church in the UK 🇬🇧. I've written a book about Sun Tzu and the Art of War and Captai Moroni. The book covers a range of topics, including spies and warfare and warfare and also chi in the BoM. Sun Tzu may also identify parts of the lost tribes. I would be very happy to discuss this on your show
Thank you guys so much for doing this episode!!! I am a never mo charasmatic (and LGBT) Christian and I love this guy's heart for dialogue and inclusivity. Jen and Gerardo, you guys bring something really special to this podcast. I feel your emotions when you share about your pasts and I love your ability to see nuance. I look forward to seeing more of you both (and John of course)! Thank you for your kindness, humility and vulnerability. The only question I would ask Steven is about the evangelical or charasmatic movement and it's relationship to the LGBT community. I still believe in this movement, but I have never found a church that accepts or includes me the way they do others because I'm in a same-sex marriage. It has been deeply painful, and I think in addition to an abundance of legalism and the prosperity gospel, Pentacostals refusal to accept queer folks will be the biggest thing holding back their growth. Steven, I hope your personal faith and the churches you support hold genuine space for people like me. And not just as a second class passive observer, but as full participants. John, thanks again for this series!! I have genuinely felt the spirit many times while listening, and I think we should all have the ability to see the bright and darker sides of our faith/religions. ❤️❤️
I like this guy. If God is unchanging? why do leaders of many churches change their doctrines? If God's love is conditional how does that flow with "The Miracle of Forgiveness" which most exmo's have never felt from church leaders.
1:10:15 All this “born again” stuff is only good for converts. Having grown up in evangelical circles, I never related. I grew up following the rules, never wanting to rebel-I was always just a good person and I never had an encounter or a radical change. Yet everyone always pushed for me to have some kind of testimony and to have some kind of sordid past that I’d repented from. It’s like you have to be an alcoholic first before you can be a real Christian. It’s ridiculous.
Robert Millet!! I took Psy 1010 from him at SLCC when I came back to college to prepare to apply to medical school in 2018! He was an amazing teacher and scholar and when I looked him up and saw he had worked at BYU I was shocked, he is someone I consider a true disciple of Christ. As I am no longer a member but trying to figure out what I believe for myself after being raised in a mixed religion household, this is the best episode to help me see why I have felt the church has grown distant from its roots. I love all the commentary and discussion, you are all fantastic! ❤️👏🤗
It’s extremely hard to ignore all the inaccuracies in the Book Mormon. Lamanites? Nephi? A vast civilization? Heavy, heavy borrowing from the King James Version? And then presenting this as a new testimony? Additionally, as a Baptist, I never felt we were the only true denomination. I didn’t consider us a separate church, simply a separate expression under Christian orthodoxy.
Never-mo evangelical who loves Mormons again. Appreciate Steven's study & his fresh approach from this side of the aisle so to speak. But is anyone else noticing the imbalance and bias academic study alone can foster? Steve admits in this segment after all these years he'd not met a single saint until 18 mos ago. Seriously? Is this not like having read about the Beatles for 25 years and being called an authority without ever having heard a single tune? And then that education is suddenly supplemented only by personal encounters with "giants" in the movement? What about the view from the pew? Or those permanently scarred by the undue influence? He seems to have found the home he's needed in Mormonism, by his own admission, but that home is not based in any day-to-day reality of Mormonism- having committed to it or lived it. And he's neither read the BofM cover to cover nor considered what the missionaries would in reality ask. This qualifies one as an expert on Mormonism? Steven also is not a known entity among evangelicals. Some of the declarations potentially on behalf of Christendom feel presumptuous, whether intended or not. Just a few concerns while appreciatng his years invested in study. And still so appreciate the work of Mormon Stories. You rock!
Also wanted to add, a "secular view" is looking for facts. That's it. When you tell someone to stop looking at something in a "secular view" you're just telling them to ignore truth. Sorry that that's a little harsh but it needed to be said.
Wow! As an ex- catholic …. Wow. I respect everyone’s opinion who’s honest, but I don’t have to agree . I’ve been an agnostic for 30 years, so buying into ANY religion is basically something I don’t understand . I’m not certain where Stephen stands, but he’s YOUR friend so whatever - blessings
Okay… if you have a good epistemological foundation then you wouldn’t believe in ANY religion, superstition, or supernatural beliefs. So, your feelings were not confirmation of the Book of Mormon because your feelings have already made their own mind up. You have already clung to whichever supernatural beliefs you wanted to. I hate when people pretend that they are being rigorous in their studies and logical in their approach when they absolutely are not.
"There is none righteous, no not one." Romans 3:10. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord. "Romans 6:23. After the resurrection, Jesus went to heaven to prepare a place for believers. If there was more to tell us He would have told us. "Jesus is the same, yesterday, to day, and tomorrow." Hebrews 13:8. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8. God bless you all.
He was spot on with the speaking of tongues in the 20th century! In sacred loneliness Zina Young spoke of many times of doing that plus the laying on of hands by women and washing and anointing!
Nice guy, and a bridge builder. But, I can't help but think that his love of the church is because he hasn't actually lived as a Mormon, or been harmed by it. A white male, who only observes from the outside can't really know what it's like for many of us who have received trauma from our commitment to this organization.
He has not! I think he’s trying to build bridges not walls.. but he isn’t familiar with the harmful things of the church.. he is good with the BOOK OF Mormon only because it’s actually pentecostal.. which Joseph Smith was in reality so his early ideas are in it.. he wrote the book after all
I think probably what changed the church from its original to now, is greed and power. He is amazing at turning all the judgements and critics upside down. In other words dont get your nose out of joint.😁💕
Steven- are you as accepting and tolerant towards agnostics? Do you appreciate us ? I’m not so sure! It seems we’re required to believe in Jesus Christ first. Am I wrong ?
I wonder if JS knew KJ was gay? How many folks know that King James (who commissioned the King James Bible and to whom it was dedicated) loved men and had sex with them? At the age of thirteen James fell madly in love with his male cousin Esmé Stuart whom he made Duke of Lennox. James deferred to Esmé to the consternation of his ministers. In 1582 James was kidnapped and forced to issue a proclamation against his lover and send him back to France. Later, James fell in love with a poor young Scotsman named Robert Carr. “The king leans on his [Carrʼs] arm, pinches his cheeks, smooths his ruffled garment, and when he looks upon Carr, directs his speech to others.” -Thomas Howard, Earl of Suffolk, in a letter, 1611 Carr eventually ended the relationship after which the king expressed his dissatisfaction in a letter to Carr, “I leave out of this reckoning your long creeping back and withdrawing yourself from lying in my chamber, notwithstanding my many hundred times earnest soliciting you to the contrary...Remember that (since I am king) all your being, except your breathing and soul, is from me.” (See The Letters of King James I & VI, ed., G. P. V. Akrigg, Univ. of Calif. Press, 1984. Also see Royal Family, Royal Lovers: King James of England and Scotland, David M. Bergeron, Univ. of Missouri Press, 1991) -Skip Church King Jamesʼ favorite male lovers were the Earl of Somerset and the Duke of Buckingham. -Ben Edward Akerly, The X-rated Bible
I think one of the most interesting things I learnt from this was that Joseph Smith the 3rd allowed the blacks to have the priesthood . I have great admiration for the quaker church because their history shows their fairness towards people that was not so much the norm in that time in history. I've often compared their history to the history of Mormonism and seen a stark contrast. Don't get me wrong Brigham Young progressed the church in other ways but Joseph Smith the 3rd now has my respect for what I perceive as doing the right thing in a time when that may have been an unpopular idea as opposed to Brigham who was very clearly racist.
Steve skated over the details with regards to the RLDS ordaining Blacks. JSIII produced a revelation which is still in their D&C today in which ordination of Blacks was permitted in order for them to minister to other Blacks. It should also be pointed out that the RLDS have a revelation kinda permitting polygamy in their church. They were conducting missionary work in India and came across polygamists who wanted to join the RLDS Church; so they let them and they could keep their wives, have children with them etc.
@@hollon1697 The branch I attended was a Josephite branch that claimed to have separated from RLDS around the time of the name change. They use the RLDS Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants.
My friend used to teach a youth LDS sunday school and was repremanded and then released from the position by teaching certain things directly out of he book of Mormon.
Never-mo evangelical here who adores Mormons. Have also been on an extensive deep dive personally and built a substantial library for over five years now. MYSTIFIED by Steven at the 11:15+ mark. How has a serious student of Mormonism never read the BofM cover to cover and considered the gravity of Moroni's promise? I appreciate Steven's magnanimity toward all church members, perhaps as outreach, but perhaps also in fulfilling unmet needs having grown up in harsh and hypocritical Christian circles. But, It is extremely hard after hearing this to take Steven entirely seriously. Before claiming a true love for the BofM, a meticulous journey through the 1830 version cover to cover- with a modern version and the Bible handy on one's desk- is a must. Any serious student of Mormonism, faithful or not, will benefit from the exercise. Curious to hear more but also want to counter the notion Steven is unique among evangelicals who've studied and love faitfhul members. There are many of us out here & have been throughout the church's history. I hope this will serve to draw more out of the woodwork.
This episode was tough to listen to. John, you have to get someone like Carah back to keep these conversations from veering way too far into the mythical weeds. Why are we debating which myths are better??
I find it pretty gross how he'll just ignore so much of the bad these people do just because they're fellow believers. I'm not the only one who noticed that, right?
No you are not. I’m not particularly “religious” I also am the “Evil Catholic” that likes Mormon Stories. I was super grossed out when he said he really respects and obviously can give grace to Rod. I’m sure he’s right that there are a lot of people like Rod in evangelical churches. However saying he can give them a pass because they basically “know not what they do” is not just offensive to people of color, women, LGBTQ+ folks. It fails to acknowledge that Rod and others like him will always continue to minimize the aforementioned because people like Steven give them a pass because they are believers. Meanwhile we continue to be marginalized. I know Steven doesn’t know how incredibly hurtful Rods words and beliefs were for me to hear. I had to stop the series many times to get my mind straight and stop crying. Steven really needs to acknowledge that these thought processes are harmful.
Apologists annoy me. Even charismatic Pentecostals. I'm not saying he's not a smart and nice enough guy. But he most certainly has an agenda. And I'm not sure truth is his ultimate goal.
@@mormonsuicide no because they are using their feelings and assumptions to try and put the square peg into the round hole. Mormonism isn't a restoration of anything. If Christianity is so corrupted I'm not sure that I place much faith in it either. He is certainly interesting to listen to and I listen to every moment of the last three episodes as well as making numerous comments. So he doesn't really challenge my worldview that much.
@@sdfotodude just wait until he puts on the Christian Apologist hat. I'm an Ex Mormon Christian Apologist. I've challenged Exmormon Atheists and Atheists in general for years.
The Bible also gives the idea in the old testament to believe and be circumcised....and that is also applied to infants...it represents a covenant and not necessarily immediate personal belief.
YES. Exactly! And can’t seem to empathize with anyone other than non white christian males. Seems to completely ignore all of us, and this has led him to the false narrative that he’s part of some huge movement that’s gonna take over. The exact opposite is what is actually happening. Americans are becoming LESS religious, and then Covid pushed even more on this already accelerating trend. Steven should maybe look at some recent Pew surveys, and look at gen z & gen alphas. They want nothing to do with your movement.
This was tough to listen to. I appreciate his deep interest, but this deep respect and love he has for key figures just rings wrongly to me. Watching John's face and body language was quite telling. I am not sure he is fully buying it. All that said, having Steven on given the NoMo viewership is a great move. I will wait to give a fuller judgement of this series, but this i do know now. We'll be thinking and referring to Steven, his story and his knowledge for a long time.
It’s difficult to consider anything noteworthy about Joseph when you consider what he did in those early years of polygamy and anyone that stood up to him. You have to look at the man. He himself lost his faith. The church keeps having to change BOM to fit the current narrative.
It's interesting that he has an opinion on what the earlier church was like and that things like the trinity mark that authenticity. Scholars today agree that the trinity was never a thing but a later innovation. That all being said, it is fascinating to realize the BoM was a snapshot of 19th century thought and very protestant, which is why the sermons feel very hell fire and damnation type.
The book of mormon contain record from 2000bc to 421ad. This is what the nature of God was known. The lord later has revealed more about him self and since we believe in new revslation we believe when christ come more will be revealed about the nature of God. Ism a faithful latter day saint.
My mother was a jack Mormon by default (long story) and I grew up within a heavily Mormon community. Your program is helping me to understand SO much. This particular series has been so enlightening! And Jen's commentary are just... so great! I know they were hard for her, but ugh... so poignant!
Wow! Blown away! My life parallels Steven’s in some many ways . I grew up in Indiana. My parents attended Calvinist type churches but were very involved with the Full Gospel Business Mens Association BIG TIME! I went to both Baptist and public schools. I got interested in the Book of Mormon from an early age because of a trip to the dentist and I liked the pictures. Anyway from an almost Mormon if your reading this Gerardo I noticed all the Pentecostal doctrines of the Book of Mormon too! When my dad caught me reading the book I used them to get him to relax a bit. He couldn’t believe our doctrines were in the book. Anyway, Steven if your reading this. I’d like to get your thoughts on after Azusa street some Pentecostals groups became “ onenesses “ or “ modalist” and the B of M seems to endorse thier baptism formula even more so than the N. T. I always thought that was interesting. Anyway great show and thank you all so much and for Steven for sharing his story.
I was already totally digging Stephen, but when he started talking about Rod, I love him even more. I definitely thought Rod was so closed and ignorant, yet for some reason I couldn't figure out why, I respect him and appreciate him. I strive to love like Stephen does, and I have a better understanding of my 1st impression of Rod thanks to Stephen. I definitely understand my admiration for Rod so much better now and I can accept my appreciation and love for him now. Thank you
For someone who claims not to believe in subjective "proof" such as the burning in the bosom, it sure seems to me that he talks a lot about feeling the spirit and absolutely trusting that. Why is one form of spirit feeling proof of a god and not another? There is absolutely NO objective proof of any sort of deity and I'm sure he knows that.
I find Steven weird, a good weird. He's in a box by himself. But I like the way he looks for the good in Mormonism and others. He speaks of beliefs needing to be in line with scripture, but the problem is understanding and interpreting scripture. All Christian churches see themselves as in line with scripture. Steven also mentions his feeling that it wasn't just for Christ to appear only to one part of the world and not appearing to other parts as taught in the BOM. I've had the same thoughts. I have 3 children and I would never prefer one over the other. Why would God neglect most of humanity? Of course history shows us that there were other Christ-like Figures appearing in India and Persia as well as the Americas. This history of all religions, not just Christianity, supports Steven's observation that man eventually corrupts the purity of religion. I'm sure that Jesus understood this human tendency, but fulfilled His mission in spite of what man would do to it. The idea of "restoration" assumes that the people of the 19th century really understood what they were trying to restore. Were they trying to restore the early Christian community in which 90% of the people were illiterate, where there were no Bibles to carry around even if they could read, where there was actually a variety of beliefs with no authority to bring about unity? And they probably didn't sit in a church that looked like our churches. If Jesus had been interested in making sure His followers were doing the right thing and acting the right way, He would have written His teachings down Himself. And I'm just glad that Jesus didn't "speak in tongues" to His disciples. Steven speaks of leading people to Christ, a phrase I've heard all my life from people who look down on others as sheep that need to be led. I have no problem with being a sheep, but I don't want to be led by another sheep. When I feel that I'm being lead somewhere, I resist. If there is something awesome, something beautiful, something earthshaking to learn, just let me know where to look. Steven shows us two aspects of religion: knowing and feeling. Education brings us knowledge, and realization brings us feelings. We need both. Steven demonstrates a lot of both.
Hi Harlan, A painting as you mentioned earlier can open ones mind to other thoughts...thinking differently. Art can awaken feelings from which one can open ones mind to realizations! Our Knowledge is limited to the world of duality as defined by our ancestors, the model we've inherited! The ultimate knowledge of life being knowledge of the creator, the holy grail that few will ever experience! Knowledge beyond this realm, that which transcends comes as a result of feelings and awakenings, thus the ever present encouragement for people to open their heart! Think with their heart and not their minds, desires, passions or personal prejudices! Its about causing people to reach out and understand the world from more than their self perspective, from which unconditional love, understanding, tolerance, acceptance and the awakening that we are one with each other, one with our world and one with our creator!! I too view the world with a view dominated by the left hemisphere of my brain, thus logic, mathematics and science are my tools for comprehending this world. But when using such tools to explain that which is ineffable, the genius becomes the fool, the clown , the struggling soul Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyer referred to as as the man who has no invisible means of support! And the fool one can't help but feel sorry for! Self proclaimed geniuses are much like self proclaimed religious leaders, the world would be a very different place without them. The ultimate Reality is one available to the mind of the beholder, to he/she who can outgrow their programming and open their hearts to that which transcends. Everything else is just a play of lessons, but as Joseph Campbell said, the down side is that it HURTS!
@@sidvicious2845 I've come to appreciate more the value and role the arts play in our spiritual growth, in expressing our deepest feelings and spiritual reality. We don't have the language for the deeper feelings. Have you seen the cave paintings of Altamira, Spain? The oldest are 36,000 years old! So we've been at it for a long time. And I'm sure these paintings had spiritual meaning to the people. I also would expect that these cave painters also sang or chanted as an expression of the awe they felt for the power represented in the paintings. Music has a way affecting us deeply by bypassing the intellect. This is why churches sing moving hymns together as a way of reinforcing basic beliefs and feelings. It's very effective! We do the same with patriotic music. Our journey in search of the Beloved (God) always involves pain. The true path is not an easy path. We need to turn away from imitation of our forefathers and learn our own lessons. We go from one stage to the next as we grow, like a child going through stages of life.
Hi Harlan, I have heard of the cave painting; what is amazing is they were created by fire light in the darkness of the cave! I have heard suggestion that the drawings were for future hopeful hunts! They could have been for educational or entertainment purposes as well! They also could have been like trophies, a history of success to encourage continued faith in hunting! Many possibilities!
Joseph Campbell taught that our ancestors transcended the labyrinth of life and left clues in myth! That we too might transcend the labyrinth successfully. Having found the mystical experience I had in Gnostic writings; I can't help but agree with his conclusion! I don't buy the true path model rather the relative path model, more like the lesson the student or hero is ready for! I met one among us who experienced the similar mystical experience as I did. This person achieved it thru gratitude of the sacrifice of Jesus! Didn't experience the abyss as I did. Thus a different message was received by the receipant! I could understand this person had a similar experience as mine, but I couldn't convince this person of my lesson, it was different ! Thus the hero get the journey, challenge and message he/she is ready for. The true path is a misunderstanding, it should be understood as the relative path, individually designed for each recipient. This other souls cost was much different than my own, and my message was much different than the one said person received!
@@sidvicious2845 Another possibility is that the people, like native Americans, believed that the animals had spirits which they respected and even considered them like brothers who died to give them food. Maybe they were appealing to the spirit of these animals to continue providing them food.
Pretty sure he’s alluding to doctrine and rituals. I was baptized, confirmed and first communion super young. I had no idea what I was agreeing to. And the praying to saints.
@@matthewmessner1105 I had all the sacraments as well. Confirmation is more like the Protestant baptism. I can see his point on that one. But I knew exactly what I was doing. Also praying to saints is biblical, Hebrew’s 11 and 12 I believe. James 5:16 as well. Also Revelations 5:8
I think he was talking more about the pre-Counter Reformation Catholic doctrine and practice. The Catholic Church changed in response to the criticisms of Martin Luther.
No where does Bible say any of the Apostles held a "priesthood". They were give authorization to teach and baptize, but no priesthood was conferred upon them.
Your comments about the gift of tongues- I just had a missionary tell me that recently and then later in the conversation proceeded to mention that he's still struggling with his Spanish. 😳
I just can’t with his heroes list. Shannon Caldwell Montez? Nope. I mean, in a 3 part discussion about the history of the church, no women unless John said it. Also, it’s not heroic to believe lies about the plates. It’s lying. Lying about something everyone knows is a lie, makes one look foolish not heroic. But if you love jesus, and you’re male…
I subscribe to Steve's blog and have enjoyed his content. However, I was disappointed with his remarks in this interview. He got very annoyed when reminded of the recent remark by Brad Wilcox about evangelicals playing at church. I think I would take Steve's outrage more seriously if he hadn't just criticized LDS church services, and said the people needed a cup of coffee. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
I have a question about the Bible. Why does Jesus now command we murder those who don't listen to us? "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring them hither and slay them before me”- Luke 19:27 Somehow, that verse eluded me while I was on a mission. I would have enjoyed slaying those who didn't listen.
PSSST. That verse read 'bring them before me' in our old timeline. We now live in an alt universe. How? Reality isn't what you think. They lied to you.
So many changes, so little time before my posts are taken down. This subject bothers some people (because of the implications) more than anything else. It excites me to no end because it's more evidence that we live in a simulated reality - not a solid reality. And simulations are created. They don't evolve. Did you know tons of Biblical names are changed in the garbage KJV bible JS said was the 'most accurate?" How about this whopper: Matt.24:37 - But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. Noah is now Noe in our new reality? Okie dokie.
Remember the KJV chapter Timothy? It's now Timotheus. Matt. 1:2 - Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; (used to be Jedah. I learned that in Sunday school. But good for Judas! He's moved up in life. Matt.17:10 - And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? (should be Elijah) Matt.2:17 - Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, (used to be Jeremiah. No more. Now we have the famous biblical prophet Jeremy) Isaiah 14:31 - Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. (was Palestine when I used to read the Bible. Checked my old bible. Not now) Hundreds more! Tell me if this subject interests you. I'll be able to share 100's of Bible changes made when this simulation's past was hacked (with the idea it would wake people up) Didn't work so well, so changes still happening daily. Until the masses wake up.
@@foreverozone How about the name "Jesus"? Which was Yeshua, the same name as Joshua. Why would they translate the same name as "Jesus" and another as "Joshua"? If we are living in a simulation, it's a really convincing one. Maybe Shakespeare was right when he said that we are all performers on the stage of the world. And who is the Director of this morality play? And who designed our costumes (our physical bodies)?
@@harlanlang6556 Einstein said "Reality is an illusion. Albeit a really convincing one" The reason Constintine chose "Jesus Christ" is that there were two sects - the Jesus sect and the Christ sect, so he combined them (mafe up his name) The historians alive when Jesus was said to walk the earth never talked about him. They only started writing about him 100's of years later. I find that odd. Our eyes are the VR goggles to this matrix when we're awake. Our bodies are made out of DNA which is code. 0's and 1s. So is all matter. In the beginning was the 'word' (code) and the word was god. So from what I have gathered from the 'mystery schools" and hermetic principles, God was this all encompassing light consciousness (plasma energy, what our soul is, a ball of plasma in our heart region) that wanted to code a simulation where he could enjoy the senses of life after fracturing himself into countless gazillions of trillions of balls of light. (us, plants, animals, even lower life forms like bacteria even have 'life force' which can be measured as electricity and thanks to nano metals recently added to our environment, can upload data to Ai in the cloud for adv surveillance purposes. (don't ask) So that 'life force' ie soul in all living things gets to evolve via this and countless other simulations and alt realities. We never die. Even those in a coma are enjoying their lives in an alt reality until they come back (if they do) There seems to be based on my lucid dreams what I call a 'divine algorithm" that adjudicates everything in due time so to allow our consciousness to evolve. Because there is no such thing as 'time' outside of this simulation, we could theoretically live every life ever lived 1000 times over. That's how long eternity is! I have also learned we come back in our next simulation as those things we hated most. To walk a lifetime in those shoes to teach us not to hate whatever it is we hated. This is why the Mormon church and all religion is actually "Satanic" (although satan is not a person (nor is god), he's the energy that comes from Saturn the 'black sun' - long story. Learned this studying Sumerian text.) All religions tech us to hate others. Judge them. Think of them as lost or sinners. That will guarantee a one way ticket back to this lower level simulation (hell really). Which reminds me of something I learned recently. The ACDC song "Back in Black" is about dying and going back to the ether and their song Highway to Hell is about being sent back into this hell we call earth. The occult is strong with the rockers. They commune with entities beyond the realm to write their music in many cases.
I disagree with the idea that apostles are teaching that "God's love is conditional." What I have been hearing is that while God's love is unconditional, his blessings are conditional. This is the same thing that I have always heard in the church.
For the gay members, I want you to know a change to the KVJ bible was made just for you! Luke 17:34-35. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The quantum world is fascinating, isn't it!
Before the past was changed (even if you own a 200 yr old KJV bible that verse was changed) that verse read two women grinding at the mill. Now. They're grinding it out in their own bed while two men do whatever men do in bed together. I have no idea. But I'm sure they enjoy it if that's how they were created to be. BTW, the reason the KJV bible was exclusively targeted for change I'm told is that King James was a real piece of work! A flaming homosexual that loved burning women at the stake because of his same sex attraction. That's something you won't learn in Sunday school, lol. Wonder why? (look it up, 100% historically true and proven)
