Sort your real life consumables out for Wrath Classic now - Use my link or go to strms.net/WilleFactorSeptemberYT and use code POGWILLE130 to get $130 off across 6 boxes!
Difference between tbc and wotlk prep for me is a healthy lifestyle and working out ! I use a meal delivery healthy service similar to this one instead of the typical gamer junk food
TBC feels like the coziest expanion to me. It's unfortunate private servers manage to deliver a better WoW experience. TBC feels better on most private servers.
Tank main here - Threat was fun. Probably peaks with Fury Prot Warrior in Vanilla and gets a little less fun in TBC. Also big separation between good groups and bad groups as a result of threat being a mechanic. But, threat was fun at the top end.
Have to agree. Fun isn't just about pressing more different buttons, it also has to do with pacing fight rhythm, and being observant of other players. One thing I used to love about TBC was in pacing and timing of threat drops and DPS boosting cooldowns. From memory these sorts of things don't really matter in Wrath and beyond. DPS becomes more about a rotation on the keyboard than about pacing through the course of an encounter. Without threat mattering DPS becomes a lot more solipsistic.
@@Scarletpimpanel73 agreed. In Naxx 40 a good raid was really about rhythm. Having the hunter pull. Timing the Patchwerk packs. Doing the dance, bursting Mograine. Just gold when you were all on point.
As someone who never played either vanilla or tbc when they first released because i was too young, i gave both iterations of the game a shot and i just couldn't make myself like them because of just how much time is required from you to "complete" your character. I'm so looking forward to wotlk classic and leaving tbc behind once and for all, the qol changes i've seen so far in the prepatch have been amazing. Definitely playing way more this time around.
Once they are done though, they are done. You don't need to grind world quests, dailies and mythic+ chest gambling for infinity like retail. They are infinitely more achievable over time compare to the expected daily chores.
I wanted to pvp when TBC came out. I'd played tons of private servers and was totally familiar with the absolute top level of pvpers, since they were people who played every private server for 10 years nonstop only arenas all day every day. I thought to myself, since I'm much more casual and I have already played with them, the rest of pvp would be really fun and janky. Instead, what I got, was that people at 1500 were fully geared, fully meta, fully prepared with discord, addons pre-done together with knowledge what to look at. It was extremely rare that I'd find someone making a mistake. My first week I pushed to 1850 and felt completely burned out. Second week I decided to try full meta and swapped specc only to realize there was virtually nobody without gear, so I was far behind and at 1500 I was forced to play my absolute hardest to outskill them. This kind of broke it for me. It was not that it was so challenging, it was that there was no human error, no human skill, nothing involved beyond following a script which was on screen via addons for everyone. Every rogue played the same, every mage played the same, everyone played the exact same. This is why I'm skipping Wrath. I have zero interest queueing into a million death knights, paladins and warriors who might as well be PvE bosses.
I had an absolute blast in both vanilla and TBC classic :) Wasnt at all grindy, dunno what yer talking bout...one week and boom we were 70 - One week too much for the meme generation? If you solo then ofcourse it will get boring, although, even in solo the community and social elements in the classics are miles and miles better than solo in retail. The heroic and rep grinds later on in TBC was especially fun, as we delved into deep discussions combined with lots of beers it was just hilarious. Add to this random player interactions that always occur in classics due to better zone design etc, who can forget that epic teamwork with enemy faction where you help eachother finish off elite Q :) The awesome raids, the atmosphere, the zones, the music, it outshines retail every time. Even with less content the game still had so much more to offer. The classics play like a mmorpg, the retail plays like a singleplayer action rpg.
Unless you mean played time that's crazy that you leveled in a week. If you had to sit there grinding the same content over and over or played for 18 hours a day for a week straight, in both of those cases. Yes that is too much for most people
Yep I'd like to see either vanilla or wrath plus after wrath. BC was fine, but it's too simialr to vanilla with not enough changed for my liking, and only 10 levels to progress meant the try-hards got to max too quickly and I didn't have any opportunities to level alts as my guild tanks wouldn't come online unless they'd get loot, either, so it kinda sucked and I bailed at TK. Started fresh for Wrath on Giantstalker and I'm so happy. I love Wrath more than anything and even though it won't be the same as the first time around, it'll be something amazing in its own right; I can already feel that.
I'm sad I missed TBC Classic. I wasn't following the game at all anymore and didn't even know they had released it (or had even planned on it), I thought Classic was just Vanilla and that was it. TBC is when I came to WoW, so it has all the nostalgia for me.
Classic Plus. Make it Wotlk gameplay, Cataclysm zones, and the unknown long quest chains of classic. Corrupted Ashbringer quests. Send us to Outland, Northrend, and Pandaria, but make it like a super rare bonus level, and not just reused zones. Redesigned as if it was 2006 again put into Vanilla. Make hero classes like Demon Hunter, Death Knight and Brewmaster unlockable from these bonus lands. Outland could be a super long quest chain like the Scarab Lord. Northrend is only accessible from a portal in Naxx after beating KT, Ragnaros has a portal to the firelands for bonus bosses, the way Ragnaros seemed like bonus boss for those who got the douses. Open up goblin and worgen characters for those who unlocked it. Maybe limit Panda characters to only 10 per realm, or like Scarab lord where its time gated. Itd be like a different time line from current wow, but still take place after WC3
I've played a tank in many MMOs and seen at least two translate from gameplay where threat is king to threat being an entire non issue and I think it really removes an important layer of group dynamic in pve. I like threat mattering a great deal, especially with mechanics like misdirect not gimmicking it
@WillE - would you suggest participating in WOTLK launch as well? is the launch experience worth it? for me it would be 2AM when Northrend becomes available.
Agree with a lot of what you said, especially the idea that we can put TBC away possibly forever now but Classic Vanilla still draws me back. If Blizz was to just roll back Vanilla, TBC, Wrath servers again after Wrath Classic I'd play for sure, but I'd skip TBC just didn't have a good enough time to want to do it again.
Shaman, feral, and no warrior in a group as a ret was just a horrible feeling. mainly shaman and feral. both of those were massive dps losses when not in the party
TBC raid wise was just better imo. Raid size, no world buffs, consumes were cheaper and sometimes free, better designed bosses and more difficult. Problem was this time around most people only had to level 10 levels. TBC was a lot more front loaded once you hit cap but inevitably once you got into the swing of raiding you were raid logging just like in vanilla only difference being you weren't doing it for world buffs but because you didn't really have anything left to do to advance your character. People playing classic wow are playing it more for accomplishments than say in the past so anything outside of contributing to those goals they just flat out don't do; and since everything in the game is already known you can accomplish those things much quicker than when it was current content.
I feel like if they were about to do some kind of TBC again it should be like a TBC 2.0. Something the classdesign from eg WotLK with the content of TBC - adjusted accordingly. At first I really wanted to start TBC, hell I was so damn hyped for it as it was the expac I started with back in the day. I kinda wanted to relive that time. But I realized that it might destroy my rose tinted memories of that time. I've done it all back then but SWP after Brutallus. When I leveled in the prepatch and watched all of your "is it any better now"-Videos many times it became clear to me that I dont want to play "dull" classes that mostly just pressed one button. Playing felt so slow in terms of class mechanics. So I came to the conclusion that I love the world of TBC, but I do not enjoy the gameplay. I learned what I like about the retail version in terms of classes and quality of life features - especially the ability to change specs freely and account wide progression. Now I'm kinda contemplating if I should give WotLK a shot since it's the only expac I kinda missed out on. I only did t7 after release and quit back then. Missing out on Ulduar, ToC and most of ICC. But as you put it - the barrier of entry is quite high. Maybe they should keep the XP buff atleast up to 60.
I remember the first launch of TBC. The servers were so busy I could not get logged in because i was in a Q. I was also working 100 hours a week. No real time for gaming. I remember it being fun. I do not find that in today's game. Boring grind after boring grind.
I've always said "TBC is Vanilla, but good". I think TBC improved every single aspect of WoW. I cannot say the same for Wotlk though. While Ulduar and ICC was pretty good, the majority of raiding in Wotlk was pretty bad. Classes are slightly more advanced compared to TBC and raid's become slightly more than just Target dummys with voicelines. However, all of wotlk is just fricking dreary... It's the end of the Xbox360 era where everything was brown but in Wotlk is just brown, Ice colored, and gray... Unless it's for a gag/comedic releif(Nessingwary Camp in Sholazar Basin), everything is just death, destruction, sorrow and exhaustion.
Outland has never appealed to me. It definitely feels like a place you're not supposed to be - a hellish nightmare born of a dead planet... but I don't want to hang out there lol. It truly felt like an expansion to Vanilla. Something added on to it. Later expansions feel more substantial in what they offer zone-wise.
I tried to reroll from Warrior to Shaman when TBC dropped, and was just never able to catch back up. By the time I was doing tier 4 content, tier 5 was out, and the community expected full tier 4 gear in order to get into tier 4 pugs. I just quit. I wish I just bought the fucking boost, but no, I had to be principled and level myself. What a fucking idiot I was.
I had a much better time in classic than TBC. Classic still has that jankiness, unrefined, mysterious feel to it. Flying mounts kill interaction and scope of the world. Wotlk is pretty good so far though, but classic is something I could always replay
TBCC started off slow for me. I had some irl things happening that didn't allow for me to play TBCC at launch and because of it I fell drastically behind by several weeks. P1 did seem to drag on a bit too long(and that's bcz i started TBCC almost a month late). I also think P3 was too short. Blizz brought out P4 a few weeks too soon in my opinion. Overall I did enjoy TBCC but P1 was very boring because of my delayed start. I'd say I also enjoyed Classic more than TBC. I think everyone knows how awesome Wrath is and I too am eagerly awaiting to start playing it.
I will never forget my first Karazan raid being a hunter in greens and blues. I got a whisper from a person I boosted through the DM a lot of times months ago pre TBC, "Hey want to raid Karazan? Our hunter didn't show up and we need one." I explained I would love to, but I never done it and I was in greens and blues and his answer "Doesn't matter we need a hunter to kite." and I got an invite and off I went, preforming the ancient mostly lost art of hunter kiting.
@@danmoore1427Nothing realy, the same thing happened to me, I was a mage and people thought they would need sheep, that never happened, but I got a place in the main roster because I was a good mage and a decent person.
Just stopped half way through the video to let you know how enjoyable it is! Storytelling is on point as usual, and the images already feel nostalgic... keep it up!
Every zone in Outland is gorgeous. Blade's Edge*** Mountains, Hellfire*** Peninsula, and the Bone Wastes*** are meant to be a little dreary... ya know? The fact people love Zangarmarsh and Nagrand, the lush zones, so much means that the level designers did a great job designing the desolate regions of Outland. I'm also one of the few people who loves Terokkar Forest as well.
It was such a fun ride, got to show 2 friends what wow was about, sadly life happens, only got to play through phase 1 tbc, but it felt so good to be back. specially returning and doing all the stuff in prepatch with them has been awesome again, reason I loved this game so much, but to be able to play with homies this time around, was so much better. Wrath is my last hurrah, wont do cata, but what a cool lil ride to go back on.
really hoping for Classic+ like Asmon has talked about: Vanilla WoW world + classic wrath talents and class design. Use this as a base to make new content.
lol as if it was asmon that came up with taht idea . Turtle WoW is a private server that is essentially a Vanilla+, it has custom content that continues the spirit of vanilla, addin new races, new zones, hundreds of new quests and spells/talents that follow the idea of WoW Vanilla
Started watching you when classic released, ever since I've been looking forward to watching your new videos. You're currently the best wow creator by far, calming voice, interesting topics, good editing, what is there not to like. I could watch a video of you explaining how to cook potatoes and I wouldn't be bored.
TBC is still my favorite. Content phasing and the availability of information kind of ruined it--and that genie is never going back in the bottle. I will forever pine for the days of trying to figure out a strat for Archimonde when we only had 1 shaman. 97 wipes in mostly kara and some t5 gear. No guide videos on RU-vid, just 25 friends piecing things together one try at a time. It's impossible to convey the difference between how T6 felt in classic iteration vs OG TBC. It was a *completely* different experience. Steamrolling it with t5 BIS and guide videos just made it boring. Probably time for me to hang up the WoW cleats, because Wrath isn't going to scratch that itch, either.
I really share the sentiment of there being little reason to go out in the world outside of raiding. It really bothered me because I even found myself raidlogging for months.
I raid logged more in classic than tbc, world buffs really made it so playing in between raids was just not worth it - at all. At least tbc had flying, and dailies, and decent farms, and reps to grind. Classic had..............DM jump runs?
I don't understand this mindset. There was plenty to do outside of raids, you just didn't want to do any of it. Pvp, heroics, alt leveling, farming, new daily hubs with mounts like Netherwing, etc. There was stuff to do. If that isn't your bag, fine, then why get bothered by it?
@@Mr.Slaughter I had the same issues as the original comment PvP was something I never had an interest, if I did PvP then in the open world which didn't happen. Heroics are done after a while too with nothing to gain, yeah you could get more badges for god knows why Alt leveling I spent the most time on in TBC but I don't want that to be the case, I have a MAIN character for a reason that I want to play Farming is the most I could do with my main but Outlands is so ugly and small so that wasn't nearly as fun as in Classic or Wrath Daily hubs are good but not a feature where I think "Damn can't wait to log in and play!" but rather "I HAVE to do my dailies today!" I had such a blast with classic since Nostalrius and I also had a blast with Wrath in the past (retail + private servers) but I can't stand TBC, it is the ugly middle child in this scenario.
Some of the best times I had in TBC was during the down time between raids. Drunk farming primals to craft gear for new guildies or raid mats was fun as hell.
He touched on threat and agro management and as someone who main tanked all of Vanilla WoW, TBC, and beyond I can tell you that 90% of the prob with Vanilla was that as a Warrior's gear improved, his threat generation got worse. Most of the rage generated was from damage taken. So as you mitigate more, block 100%, etc etc. Your ability to hold a bosses attention diminished. I did not play the Classic relaunch but I assume it was about the same. It was about 3 years before TBC come out from WoW's launch and it got really bad in the last year. It was complaint #1 on warrior forums for a long time. It got to the point that you started to drop your rotation and let a boss crit you just so you could keep agro up. Which was dangerous because new content could two round you easy. TBC was a great improvement, other classes could tank, and they reworked the entire threat system. Anybody from the outside looking in could tell. But it all stemmed from one issue and it was not so obvious if you weren't the guild's punching bag. Threat output solely based on damage incoming. That system works fine until the day it doesn't.
Damn, I just can't compliment you enough on your details you put in your videos Willie. I love how you did this review in steps right from the beginning. I pretty much agreed with you on everything, with the exception of group/raid wide buffs. As a pally main until TBC, it was a chore to buff everyone. I didn't mind it, but group/raid wide buffs made it much more easier and less time consuming for me. When TBC launched, I switched to my shammy, as enh was always one of my favorite specs, and in TBC, it got plenty of love. Unfortunately, this time around, I didn't get to pvp and raid as much as I would've liked to. In Original Vanilla and TBC, I was a young, single punk who didn't have much responsibilities. This time around on re-releases, I'm working full time and have a family to provide for, as do many of us who try play when we can. Anyways, I agree with pvp, it just didn't seem as fun as it did "back than." You touched on the exact points that made it difficult for me to enjoy it, catching up and trying to maintain as the game progresses. Another great upload, much appreciated on the details and honest feedback. It's nice to see these longer videos come out. I really like listening to them while I'm grinding some pre-patch honor. Only these past few weeks, I feel I've been able to enjoy pvp again, because the honor gain is greatly increased, making it easier for a casual dad player to try get gear before WOTLK officially launches. Cheers, Willie. Thanks for the upload.
The vibes of TBC i think were better than Wrath..that diablo 2 guy soundtrack gave it such a unique atmosphere. I wish they would do a new Classic to TBC to Wrath rotation server. TBC is the only masterpiece expansion to WoW.
Amazing video WillE. I'm right there with you on just about all fronts. I really think pvp sucked in TBC, and trust me I tried. Somehow it seemed even more rock paper scissors than vanilla. Anyway. Loved the content, and I'll like and comment on the next video... very soon
For me, TBC is where the feeling started of content that felt like a super fake themepark environment instead of an immersive world. I also hated the scifi and draenei stuff that thematically felt like it didn't belong.
The only big criticism I have of classic and TBC is lack of Dual Spec. The inability to easily be specced for pvp or pve is 99% of the reason I didn't play much in both.
Totally agree. Committing to maining a healer, but not having tons of time to farm gold to switch specs, was just too daunting. Happily coming back to Wrath where I can dual spec.
By far my favourite Wow content creator, always get the urge to play again after watching one of your longer vids, nice to see Pyrewood Village is still going strong!
My guess is that wrath had the most players active ever, so that's why we're seeing so many people coming back. Also, a lot of people didnt stay for TBC due to the boost/pay to save character drama, and even MORE left after the scandal during the first months (investigation of sexual harassment and HR disaster). I saw so many just go away because of that
Biggest gripe about TBC was servers getting 100% abandoned by one faction or completely killed and being in a semi serious guild. The raid comp having to have 5 + shamans and a boomie a ret, feral etc was annoying.
Solid video down memory lane. I share the sentiment of having enjoyed TBC, but I dont think I would play it again. Altho, after having played a geared warrior with double BL and a fully optimized group comp, that was probally some of the most fun raiding in a while
I had some fun in TBC classic. It was nice being able to play a feral druid without being lectured to farm a bunch of level 32 staves from Gnomeregan, and having my dps be viable. After a while though, the game atmosphere just felt...stale. Most people that played didn't talk much, minmaxed to hell and back, and it didn't feel like an adventure. Once I beat Illidan, I feel like I was able to complete the content I never got a chance to as a teenager, and was able to hang up the old WoW boots for a final time. I'd like to see a MMO that puts a brand new spin on the meta. Something that doesn't use the standard leveling system with the "grind to end game" mentality. I want a whole new world to explore, with something fun and exciting to see at every turn.
I could listen to your videos for hours. I'm quite pleased that Classic TBC was over 6 months earlier than the original release. It lacked the scope of the oringal classic WoW, and got quite boring quite fast. I took a break after phase 2, and came back when Sunwell opened, and I don't feel like i missed much. I also switched my main to a Ret Paladin, as my Guild needed one.
I will say on a personal level I'd have liked one additional month in Sunwell before the nerfs hit. My guild was so close to beating M'uru, and then the nerfs hit and we sleepwalked through it. Bit of an anti-climax end to an overwise great experience. And I hope Wrath gets a full 18 months. Considering there's more content, I really think it deserves it. Just over 4 months per tier seems decent, no (ideally, 4 of Naxx, 5 of Ulduar, 4 of ToC and 5 of ICC)?
I definitely agree with you, this expansion had some very high highs but it dipped quite a lot as well. As a more casual player I would've liked to play nerfed Sunwell for a bit before prepatch hit so that my dad guild would also be able to get further than Brutallus. Still, I did manage to kill KJ eventually and as a prot warrior main, maintanking Illidan was the highlight of my expansion for sure. Overall I liked TBC a lot less than Classic though. I would return to Azeroth but not to Outland.
sunwell was the only raid, besides vashj/kael that wasnt to easy. for sure, phase 3 lost a lot of its glory cause it was a joke in this state. i hate the prepatch nerf to all content
I had so, so much fun in phase 1 of BC, more fun than I ever had in classic. But by the time phase 2 came out, my smaller server was dying, and the tier 5 content was honestly a huge slog and not fun at all for me (a tank). So I ended up quitting, and I really wish I had enough motivation to stick around for the other phases.
thanks for the review willie! I became a father just before tbc launch and decided it was probably a good time to give wow a break. love to watch ur videos from time to time to see what i've been missing!
TBC was so much fun playing PVP the insane amounts of resil in wrath just kills the game completely for me. Will always remember my time in AB as a fire mage in classic and TBC I absolutely fucking destroyed kids. Going 45 kbs 100 kills and 0 deaths in AB is by far the best gaming experience I have ever had.
so much to do in classic wow, yeah gather world buffs kekw. TBC was a rly good expansion and still is, if u want to do stuff in game u can. its about how u approach it. Classic tbc was rly good, however i think we shouldve had more time with tier 6. If i had to choose tbc or vanilla again it would be tbc all the way. fuck the world buff meta and the stupid 2 hour cc's in pvp etc.
I was in a dad guild called Salt on a PVE server. We were a chill group of skilled players with low competitive motivation and it was a great ride honestly. I agree with most of your analysis here. If you were lucky enough to be in a stable guild and were able to progress through all the content as it came out, it was a really fun time. Thanks to all my Salt friends! Loved the video Wille!
Coming from someone who tanked back then, the changes from TBC to LK were pretty horrible and ruined so many things for me. Instant threat on a group after 1 swipe/thunderclap/consencrate is not fun and ruins the gameplay loop you had. You now just stand there and don't really have to work hard at anything. Any satisfaction for being a decent tank and learning how to manage threat and hold aggro on groups was instantly gone and you just felt like a really low DPS who took the hits. Also, my druid was basically dumbed down into a prot warrior with much fewer buttons. We no longer could stand apart by going for a high armor/evasion OR high HP build. Going back now and playing something different from a tank, I can see why people like the changes in LK, but I feel that it was an overall bad direction for the game.
The problem with attunements is that you can't just give players raids. What would happen is that they would rush straight to raiding through boosting. Then would raid non-stop. Exhaust the end game content and get bored quickly. Blizzard then would have to non-stop create end game content with ever inflating statistics which would cause ever downward spiral. Attunements and anti-cheese mechanics are healthy for the game. The fact that players did not liked only shows that they were working. It prevented players getting bored with a game and having to play more before maxing out their characters. Back in The Burning Crusade, maxing out a character was a challenge. Attunements was a major part of why. It prevented players from ruining their own gameplay.
They made too many mistakes, starting in prepatch to tbc, not managing their servers and faction balance, waiting 60min for a bg, so i just quitted like many others in week 2, the fixes came too late.
I'm not here to promote private servers or anything, but I think I now what you're after while playing classic. You should really try out Turtle WoW if wotlk gets a bit meh in the middle of it like tbc did. But anyways, great content as always! Keep it up WillE :)
Tbc was my favorite expansion, I quit playing in wrath, my main was shadow priest tho, so not a 1 button raider... I was really hoping for a tbc server, I want to experience prenerf KT and Vashj again😢
16 months for the entire of TBC makes me worried how fast they're gonna rush through Wrath. Wouldn't complain about Ruby Sanctum or Naxx being shorter patches but the rest really needs to be longer, this is their golden goose expansion and (alongside vanilla) the most popular expansion when it comes to private servers. It could well be they rushed things because of declining players and are hoping Wrath will pull back some elapsed players (I know I'm tempted) but I think there's also problems with the company that are also putting people off. The TBC 'deluxe' edition and level boost options really left a sour taste in my mouth and I have a feeling we're getting the WoW token in classic Wrath to 'deal' with the botting problems in the most profitable and lowest effort way possible.
There really should have at least been a comment about botting, boosting, and the official digital deluxe pack. These were all very negative things in my experience that dramatically effected TBC.
BC classic was trash. Didn't even have the charm of early phase vanilla. Wotlk will be good though, the modern mentality started there so it won't be such a departure of how actual wotlk was played
"your class gets utility added to become a valuable and wanted part of your raid group" rogues: " ... " "there weren't any meme specs" assassination rogues: " ... "
Tbc was the peak of classic raiding, imo ofc. Wrath and vanilla raids is easy. Ssc/Tk & Sunwell pre nerf actually challenged my guild. Was so fun to raid. Gonna miss seal twisting aswell 😢
I didn't play the Classic re-releases, but when it comes to what I played the most back in 2005-2009, it would be vanilla and WotLK more than tBC. They should the best features of all three of those iterations of WoW to make a Classic+ with seasonal and hardcore/permadeath servers.
Really really great video thank you for this ! I hope we’ll have something incredible with Dragonflight (it’s really promising) and made me come back so I catch up before it launches, I still have to buy it but at the moment discovering the Chromie time line feature is AMAZING ! I’ve been replaying Legion and having a blast with my boyfriend :) Love your video ❤ thanks for making this ! The editing is INCREDIBLE 👌🏻
Legit my guild tanks refused doing early heroics while in full Naxx bis. They were like the laziest and whiniest tanks. I had to pug everything to get my badges for the icon.
