I love that you're looking into these. I've owned an electric bike, (well, about 4), since the early 2000's, when they first became available. During the summer months, if I don't have to go on any long trips, I don't even license my truck. I've literally saved thousands of dollars! This May, I bought what is called an "EMMO Monster". Its an 84 volt, scooter style, electric bike. So far, this one has become my favorite of all of them. It has 3 speed modes, alarm system, all necessary lights as well as emergency 4-way flashers, and on top of all that, it has a bluetooth/fm radio stereo system. I can't stop at a store or the post office without people asking me about it and where they can get one! In fact, one of the gentlemen I spoke with, stopped by my place to show me the one he bought shortly after talking with me. Now, I see him scooting around all over town with a giant grin on his face. ... This guy is nearly 70 years old! I've sent so many people to the dealership where I bought it, they've decided to pay me a referral fee for everyone who uses my name when getting one. Now, (to use your words 😉), that's AWESOME! 😊 Cheers, from Saskatchewan, Canada.
The unfortunate thing with the UK is that e-bikes which go faster than 15.5mph solely under the power of the motor or with motor assistance are illegal without being registered and without a motorcycle license. I do have one which does about 25mph, and I do fortunately have a license, but legally speaking I should get the E-bike registered with the DVLA and get a numberplate on it I believe. I think the 15.5mph limit is a bit low to be honest, most people are capable of pedalling a bike faster than that. It does further muddy the waters though, because quite honestly I have no idea how to get a bicycle registered with the DVLA :)
@@irreverend_ Good Lord!! When I was Still Young and Fit, I could Easily top 20mph!! On the old 3gear Hercules bike I had!! Crumbs,,, I Think the UK Government has missed the out on cashing in off me here,,, Somewhere?!! (Ie Road Tax, Insurance,, Legwork taxation,Paperwork Tax,, Tax exemption Tax!!)
@@AndreaDingbatt When I was young and fit I remember getting my first speedometer for my bicycle, and trying to go as fast as I could down a backstreet, looked down at something clicking on the front wheel and hit a parked car at about 22mph. That wasn't fun :) But I've set off speed traps since then on a bit of a downhill, I was doing 34 in a 30 zone apparently
Exactly!! I find it disgusting how greedy governments are that with all the rising costs involved with travel, they can’t let this one go. Bicycles will get a tax at some point too. As revenue will inevitably decline from cars and those bike lanes weren’t free.
@@MrFas4wd It costs money to administer the government. If the government has to do something specific to this device that doesn't happen with other things, then they have to pay for it somehow.
Well, e-bikes aren't taxed (other than the VAT you pay when buying one), and non-hybrid electric cars don't pay VED, so I doubt that's actually an issue.
Speed limits are fine, but 250w motors suck, government doesn't say people can't own high powered cars, they just say you can't drive dangerously or too fast. If you live in a hilly area get used to pushing anything under 600w.
E-Scooters would be much safer when they had BMX wheels (20 inch). They should also fall under the legislation of electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters rather than electric bicycle legislation.
I have been waiting for this first I live in Portugal. Anyway register it as a moped. Put a tiny inverter generator on it feeding the battery and the range will be unlimited.
Interesting. I've been making my folding bike electric. I've had most of the bits for years though. In that time the UK e-bike law changed. In 2016 they removed the option of twist and go (throttle control). Apparently, throttles are only allowed to take you up to walking speed now. I think that was to enable less able riders to set off. So, as a scooter cant use pedal assist, they cant just lump a scooter into the same rules existing for e-bikes. It will be interesting to see what the outcome is. PS I agree it looks far more appealing and simple than a granddad mobility thingy.
There will soon be an undersecretary of the promogation of draft legislation for the registrar of transportation for throttle driven locomotion of biped human transportation within established parameters of the roadutilizatoin act of 1564
I remember the first 50cc sports mopeds before them we had LPA which stood for "light pedal assistance" and these were old Raleigh type pedal and pop . in order for a 16 year old to ride a moped it had to gave pedals to ride like a bicycle the Japanese mopeds were really well, designed and certainly did not need pedal assistance and our generation had them without the law of today regarding restricted horse power but the law was outdated so we had to have pedals that worked in order to pass the mot and the boys in blue could use the law when we got lippy with them it was all just a joke but we played the game tuned our 50cc engines FS1Es and AP 50s the main ones and lads swore they got the elusive 60 MPH out of them but I dont think they quite did The point im getting is electric bikes legal scooters in general apart from odd city experiments are illegal so what we need is a scooter with some sort of pedal attachment that hardly works but makes it a electric bike that way it would as it did in our time force the law to work it all out it could have ridiculous small cranks that move it at 1mph whilst peddaling but it might past the law and the company that does it right makes a killing
I hope the lawmakers see sense when they eventually look at the legality of these and make them legal. I own a small pizza takeaway and we do deliver all around our local area i have been looking at these as a potential delivery vehicle fo the very local deliveries i think personally that these would be a great delivery tool the only thing that would they would need is an increase in the range on a single charge so a bigger battery and a drive on charger base so it can be charging in-between deliveries. the one in this video looks perfect we would just replace the basket with an insulated box for the pizzas to go in.
Given the governments tacit approval of moving away from hydrocarbon fuelled transportation, air quality obligations, congestion and pollution reduction in towns and cities, it would appear that they are contradicting the obvious direction we need as a society to be moving in to address these issues. As ever, government policies are well behind the curve, and for this, we pay, and suffer.
Well, with the current price of electricity here in the UK., very few folk would be using their e-scoots anyway, because they wouldn't be able to afford to charge them up!!!!!!
Pedals to make it a bicycle with pedal assist and an interchangeable 250W to 12KW motor. They won't know unless you're speeding! ;) Stop! Or, I'll say Stop again!
My paranoia makes me believe that the petro chemical industry has people sitting on advisory boards who advise the government on matters such as personal e transport, highly likely bringing up spurious safety issues to very old men who have no idea about modern life. Which is ironic given we are collectively gassing ourselves and this beautiful unique planet out of our children's future.
I hope the power limit will be 500w for e scooters. They do have smaller wheels than e bikes afteral and 250w-350w is bad for inclines and weightier riders, especially when you don't have the option of pedals. Not only that but e scooters below 500w aren't very substantially built. Classing them as part of the ebike ecosystem is great but not an exact fit.
Add fold down extension foot pedals … to improve balance ……. an important issue is “right to repair” motors , wheels , batteries , etc. should be interchangeable and repairable with no “lockout” software preventing verified owner from doing repairs or modifications. Let’s all go to Sugar rock Candy Mountain
Don’t need to be old to like baskets 🧺 when I lived in Thailand in 2004 I loved my Honda Wave 110 front mount basket, could buy and take away 4 dozen eggs in that basket 🧺
For all those who have joined the church of safetyism and are banging on about it. The 250w limit came about because it's on par with the potential power of one's own legs* so I hope you've all got your helmets, gloves and knee pads on when you're walking around on those dangerous legs of yours. *America is higher than 250w because Lance Armstrong and Chuck Norris affected the national average. I think it's around 15kw over there.
Similar to Here in Australia, but we had an upgrade of the laws not to long back and they became more restrictive than the laws previously in place, 200W and MAX 20km/h. Most ebikes and escooters I see on the street are easily getting up to 40 and some 60km/h, so they are not inside of the legal limits. > In Australia these higher powered units come under a similar category to a Moped (traditionally between about 25cc - 50cc petrol engine equivalent) requiring essential road worthy items such as lights, braking ability and some minimum frame and wheel requirements. These can be used on the roads on a Car license and must be registered. The new Australian laws don't appear to correctly include mopeds any more (an ebike with greater capacity than 200W) and now jump straight to a motor cycle class which no ebike or scooter is capable of meeting the strict roadworthy requirements. Put simply they muffed it up. Most are quite happy to pay the small registration fee of a moped, and to be fair requiring at a minimum of a car licence makes sense if they are interacting with traffic the same as any other vehicle. > I did have some interest in creating a small solar powered "power assist" bike or solar powered moped, but new Au laws stopped me in my tracks :( The difficult part of that is everyone zips past me in the street on there ebikes at 60km/h and the police turn a blind eye to it, but go to the next town and they may not be as lenient and dish out fines. If laws are discretionary then they are not really laws.
Ignore them. Right to travel unhindered. Plev. Personal lightweight electric vehicle. They going to try and make a makes your life easier tax. 👍✌☝️❤👊 keep up the good work .
You're not old Rob. I know old people. They're easy to spot, they'll be the ones shaking their heads as you go by on your scooter. I have a Onewheel and it's honestly the best tool I've ever bought.
Would be really cool if there was a way to mod one of these so can fit a 68mm torque sensing mid motor pas system in it or could you with correct mods please would the frame be big and thick enough cheers man
Bicycle regulation is quite clear. 250w pedal assist only. So i put a mid motor on my 28" wheeled trike, and a trailer tent with 455w solar panel roof, no tent... Hopefully the legislation won't ruin my niche!
Tell me you or Luke are still going to wear the cape and moustache while riding on private land 🥸😆. Also, this scooter has plenty of space to put homemade batteries. It would be great to see you use it as an EV battery testbed. You could compare the included battery vs lead acid, the ultra battery, the Baghdad battery, and the type 3 Daniel cell. Or if making a useable battery with each chemistry would be too intensive, maybe you could make a 3d printable file for your c6 power blade (did I remember the name right?) cell for a more practical homemade battery.
Im finding the situation absurd in that you can have a "trial" in one area of the country but not legally use them in another or even legally ride your own in a trial area. Ther is also the same problem of safety to the rider as when scooters (with pedals) were restricted to under 30mph on public roads where traffic can reach 40 mph upwards, they were simply an accident looking for somewhere to happen.
Think this is just what I’m looking for I have a standing scooter but was looking to add a seat but if I do I’m to low I’d be looking at the bar not over it 🤣🙈 with the handles being short looks perfect for someone who’s 4’10” 😂👌
4:25 "So it's a bit like prostitution, eh?" "Yep, we all kinda like a good ride". Boom boom - it's great to sometimes revert back to being TWELVE! Great review Rob - thank you, ya good thing.
Provided that they are not just another Chinese product which will be used for the last mile to the Job Centre, and which will be imported by the containership-load, I welcome them.
I'd prefer one of those than the dratted thing that is the Mobility Scooter.... That are too hefty and too pricey. And you just said exactly what I wanted to say..Ah Ha!! Andrea and Critters. ..XxX.. Ps, I will be on the lookout for you sailing past me,,, wearing a Cape and mask,,,if you can twirl a mustache at the same time, I shall be able to die a happy woman... Or at least die laughing!! Thank you either way!!💞🙂
Speed limit is already around those of e-bikes, but as you don't have pedal assist you're actually falling under moped laws. Legality or not, though, the problem is going to arrive when you get into an accident. If you're on the road, and it's considered "illegal", you're gonna be automatically in the wrong. If you're on the pavement and you run into a pedestrian, you're going to be in the wrong in pretty much all cases, I think. IANAL, of curse. Basically, I wouldn't worry too much about the legality of it, but I would make sure that you have insurance cover and your insurers are OK with covering you on it. Then don't carry your driving license and have enough cash to cover an eventual on the spot fine :)
Very nice, be sure that some form of carbon tax will be slapped on them like they want to now do with cows as a result of flatulance or maybe the driver. There is not a lot of packing space here so it is no good for shopping. Here in Africa, everything is 10 km away in any event. The motors might be converted to some sort of generator though and at 250 watts you might get s decent 150 watts on a windy day. So how long before it becomes a wind generator lol.
The problem I see with any scooter, the slow speed! Ppl expect them to be slow , I get passed no matter how fast I'm going, even 10 mph over, I still get pasted some times, and most accidents I heard of, was a result of them being so much slower than traffic! I believe the minimum speed should be 45-50 mph, keeping up with traffic up to 45mph, my scooter is 2x as fast as it was originally, still not fast enough,
I really really don't think you should be taking these things on any type of road with a speed limit of more than 30mph anyway though. I agree a limit of 25mph would be better, 15.5mph is rather low, but I wouldn't like to see the accidents people would have doing 50 without a helmet or protective clothing
as a motorcyclist with LPA motorcycles(actually Heavy Pedal Assistance) in my experience the people that buy & use these motor vehicles are dangerous. i have unfortunately never seen one obey traffic lights (like almost ( except 2 in over 12 months) pedal cyclists think thay are EXEMPT from the law) if an oap or invalid electric vehicle that is capable of 5MPH has to have the vehicle registered & taxed these vehicles should be registered & taxed. I am tired of being cut up overtaken then cutup buy these to only see them drive down the foot path on occasion knocking pedestrians out of there way(like some pedal cyclists) all my vehicles have to be registered & taxed with large number plates (effectively air brakes) these & the riders should be required to meet the legal standards that other road users have to eg oap or invalid vehicles & other vehicles.
For foreign readers, electric bikes are legal. Scooters and e-unicycles are not. One issue is the flammability of a lithium battery on public transport: e-bikes are allowed, somewhat, the others aren't.
And the one BIG problem with this is the basket at the back. The UK will like many countries experience that a basket at the back is not safe. Too easy for some one to nick something from it as you cant see behind you. How about using the space under the seat for a safe place to put a basket maybe with a lockable door on it. Even putting the basket on the front is not great but better than behind the rider.
Instead of the scooter I'd go for the Windgoo B20 350W 14 inch Wheel Electric Bike as it doesn't cost that much (£419 free shipping in the UK) more any is not hindered by the current state of the law.
But it would be hindered by the current UK law though ....... the max. you can have here so far is a 250w motor and 12" wheels ........ you were saying that a 350w motor and 14" wheels was legal here, and it's not!!!
The law interesting! But a wheel more you can call it disability aids! And how in earth are the law handling that Rob? For a pair wheels in the back a basket like a laundry basket! The most of people daily needs this machinery handles! For me is this the perfect size and vehicle! but it is perfect freewheelers with one wheel more!
I just bought a Phantom R1 which is the exact same scooter it seems. Mine is also yellow. It has a 450watt 36v and does about 15-16 MPH. Im not sure what that is in KPH but its quick and potentially dangerous i fyou dont pay attention but they feel stable balanced and safe. Nice scooters. 250watts is a bummer but laws are laws I guess.
They'll make them legal if you rent them from the government so they can make money. I can ride my electric bike anywhere because it has pedals, the laws on these are stupid.
The motors are pathetic….big people of 120 Kg+ will not get up the hills on this. Skinnies riding around flat town centres will be fine…the rest of us need 500watt motors even if electronically speed limited.
The law is lagging behind everywhere in Europe. The electro-scooter boom is much like the bicycle boom filling landfills and they will be soon causing an environmental problem
Honestly I've only ever seen one, they're not common around where I live. However, the little sod who was riding it came down the wrong side of the road and turned blindly in front of my motorbike. I'm ashamed to say that for a split second I considered just braking and not swerving so he'd clip himself against me
Independent of any consideration of the power source. Why a scooter and not a bicycle with a seat? The latter is safer, more stable, more practical, more comfortable to ride, and potentially better at carrying a load. The larger wheels of a bicycle are better able to deal with the ruts and potholes of British roads. I condend, It is the fact that it is a scooter that makes it a toy. Maybe the standing riding position is supposed to imply it is safe to ride on a pavement along with pedestrians, however the growing weight and power output means it is increasingly dangerous to mix with pedestrians. It really is questionable if the standing position would ever be safe on the road, with the side wind from passing traffic. The seat fitted to the model shown in the video, shows the devices are evolving to be more practical, actually returning to the concept of the Lambretta. The scooters may be safe weaving between very slow moving, or stationary traffic, but it will never be as safe as a bicycle. I suspect that if this mode of transport is to be favoured in necessary noise city centres, its speed will need to be reduced, and that may be its downfall, as it maybe seen as no more than a version of those invalid vehicles used by the elderly, and that will certainly not be seen as cool or trendy.
I can only assume the reason for scooters and not bicycles is that they're easier to get on and off, especially if someone does have some mobility issues, so they're available to a wider range of people. Also they're smaller which is arguably better for pedestrian settings, and you don't need to adjust seat height between users to make sure they can put their feet on the floor (speaking of the ones you can hire in cities at least)
@@irreverend_ ( the Molten design of the bicycle solved the dismount problem, by lowering the cross bar, equivalent to the "ladies bicycle". ) I suspect that it is because their evolution has its roots in the skateboard or even rollerskates. It is this history that has allowed them to be used on pavements and pedestrians areas. In the uk it has long been against the law to ride a bicycle on pedestrian pathways. The bicycle is seen as a road vehicle. It was recognised that in a collision between a bicycle and a pedestrian, it would be the pedestrian who would most likely suffer the greatest injury. It is therefore somewhat perverse that these powered skateboard should be allowed to be used in pedestrian areas. Their use on the pavement is actually a reflection of their instability, and therefore unsuitability for use on the road, along with other motorised vehicles. I suspect the earlier versions, which were more like motorised skateboards, found a certain acceptance for use on the pavement because the actual mechanical parts were relative small, with any collision dominated by human to human contact, rather than human to metal contact. Even so, a human body propel to say 15mph, is going to do significant damage in any impact with a true pedestrian. I would have thought that in terms of stopping distance, the bicycle would be the safer means of transport. It is these difficulties that I suspect will limit the future of motorised skateboards/scooters, as the only way to increase their safety is to reduce their speed and limit their carrying capabilities. Both measures to reduce their momentum in any collision with a pedestrian. Reducing their speed and mass, will reduce their utility, but significantly reduce their street credability, making them as uncool as a motorised wheelchair. If this is not sufficient to remove this transport aberration, then compulsory insurance and licensing certainly will, an inevitable consequence of the growing accident rate.
@@ThinkingandTinkering is it any more convenient than a folding bicycle? Your suggestion that it is "somehow more convenient" might be a clue, as I suspect that you are misinterpreting the fun factor as convenience. It's problem is that it must evolve, it has already evolved from the skateboard, to the motorised skateboard. I contend that it is this path of evolution that has allowed it to find a legal loophole, which is now being filled. There is a fundamental limitation with its utility, the need to be able to carry something, be it a briefcase or a shopping bag. Scooters have found an application, in moving people around large factor spaces, but in such locations the environment and road surface is very controlled. The same cannot be said of a town or city pedestrian area. It is perverse that the bicycle is limited to the road, where these less stable means of transport might be allowed to mingle with pedestrians of all ages. I cannot deny that the scooter maybe fun for the younger generation to use, but that will not make them safe. They were potentially dangerous when unpowered, they are even less safe when powered. There is a problem with stopping distance and momentum. I contend that someone sitting on a bicycle is in a better position to deal with there excess momentum than someone standing on a scooter. At speed, the latter is forced to dismount and run to dissipate their excess momentum, before coming to a stop. The abandoned scooter continues in a straight line, until its momentum is dissipated. If the scooter is fitted with a seat, it is more like the old Lambretta, and that was never legal to use on the pavement. It is the evolution of this mode of transport that is the problem, as its utility demands it change into something unacceptable to mix with pedestrians.
@@nigeljohnson9820 have you tried folding a folding bike? I have a folding E-bike, the first I purchased, purpose built, and never once folded it. It's a massive pain in the arse to do so frankly, and worse, makes the entire thing feel quite unstable compared to a non folding bicycle to me. Edit: and the one he reviewed was a sitting one, with disc brakes, so the latter part of your comment doesn't really apply here
Great topic Robert, we have lots of illegal EScooters users in Ireland 🇮🇪 also, our government who consists of only a 3% Green Party coalition, promised when looking to get votes, that they would legalise them straight away, but 2 years on and they are still illegal, and if your Native Irish and get stopped you will get penalty points, many Native Irish people have been striped of their licence, and are now banned from driving, having to leave the EU and move to a country that they can drive legally for 3 years of until their Irish Road ban is up, but I do think they are very unsafe in the wrong hands, most people who use these Esooters are non Irish who flaunt our laws, I think that when they are legalised they should have a reg plate fitted and the riders should be made do a compulsory once off road riding scooter test. Even if visiting from another country, part of the problem is many non Irish visitors come from countries where they drive on our wrong side of the road, along with poor lit scooters and braking the rules of our roads, it has become a dangerous conbination, thanks for another great video, and if I had known science was this good I would have done it in school, your a great teacher Robert.
Helmets aren't mandatory in the UK for bicycles however. They are for motorcycles, and any E-bike which can go faster than 15.5mph is technically a motorcycle under current law, but then you also need a license to drive it.
@@rayg436 I mean it's always a good idea to wear a helmet, and it's also technically illegal to ride a bicycle on a pavement (which is why I never have done since I was a child and knew that). But in truth I never wear a helmet on a bicycle. However, I mainly use my motorbike now and you absolutely need to wear a helmet, full face ideally but I think an open face but covering everything else is legal too, and I wear armoured leathers.
There are no 250W motors, watts don't have much to do with motor capabilities. It all depends on motor controller electronics. People were driving bicycles powered by a single, small drone motor, so... Why did they install a bicycle seat on this scooter, it's uncomfortable when you don't need to pedal. Why did they install disk brakes, you could brake just fine with motor regenerative breaking or with a simple rubber. That frame tubing is the heaviest and largest part on a scooter, it could be converted to a battery cells storage. And so on and on, there so many things that could be implemented in those emerging technologies, many were demonstrated on this channel. The sad fact is, there are no good scooters on the market, probably because people who manufacture them are not the same people who depend on cheap and bionic like transportation.
