The best comment in this video is about how years of outsourcing parts has left the OEM's unsure or not have the confidence to try and solve the engineering issue on their own.
Yup, horizontal integration works for mature industries, but is dreadfully awful when it comes rapidly advancing industries. What's ironic, is that one of the main reasons the auto industry became so stagnant is because of horizontal integration. When all the OEMs got rid of their core engineering teams that were pushing boundaries for new techniques and ideas, it snowballed to where we are today.
@@DavidJohnson-tv2nn The castings have specifically designed crash rails that, when damaged, can be cut off and replaced with bolted ones. If the damage extends to the "core" chassis, it would probably be a write-off, just like it would be with stamped-welded structures of most modern cars.
@@veikkoimmonen7300 The question then is... How much force does it take to damage the the "core chassis" vs conventional design? 10 mph impact? 20 mph impact? And do the castings crack rather than deform?
@@DavidJohnson-tv2nn I'm not sure its even a relevant question, honestly. Any collision energetic enough to damage a casting that beefy would total a regular vehicle too.
The fossil car and truck makers are now down to just assembly of car and truck parts to produce their vehicles. They have lost their engineering expertise and, they cannot compete with the likes of Tesla. The countdown to oblivion had already started since Tesla manufactured their Model S. The Ford commercial showing their “innovation” of unfolding an extra step from their truck rear door and the practical use of its open rear door for lap top use are just so hilarious when compared to Tesla’s thousands of high-tech and mechanical innovations. Wow! They laid off their engineers and development departments and now they pay. Now, see what engineers can do from Tesla to SpaceX to the Boring Company?
I really like Jordan, but why do Americans have to make up longer words when there is a perfectly adequate existing one... Anodisation rather than Anodising in this video...
Fantastic video. I love the idea of you using your research, deductive reasoning, and technical storytelling skills to help us stay informed on many of Tesla's technical competencies!
@Gugljesmece Obicno A brilliant innovation as as good, and sometimes better than, an invention. The age of invention is past. It is the age of innovation.
One fact I love learning about, was that a Giga press can have interchangeable features so it could do a front casting and a rear casting in the same press.
they are just molds . the press is independent of the mold in it. it's how all injection molding works that makes all kinds of plastic and metal parts.
While swapping molds is definitely possible, I doubt Tesla will do it. The swap will take time and manpower, while requiring a stockpile of parts from the other mold. More importantly, it will introduce the risk that something goes wrong, and parts come out slightly different each time the mold is swapped. This would cause QC headaches, much more down time, and make optimizing the process more difficult. It seems smarter to have two machines in parallel.
The editing of your videos is spot on and is the apidamy of visual learning. U show examples of exactly what u are talking about to visual narrate ur discussion. Its beautiful
Fantastic as always. Too many outsiders think Tesla's only advantage in the EV space is being a first-mover for mass production, but it goes so far beyond that. The ground-up rethink of how a car is made is a far bigger advantage and it appears it will keep their costs below rival builders for at least a few years.
It has become a lesson in absurdity as we have a retrospective look at the claims that the "big boys" would bury Tesla when EVs were mainstreamed. This was due to their claimed superiority in manufacturing and supply chain. Fast forward to today, Ford and VW are acknowledging that Tesla is the leader and a hard one to catch. Tesla has grown despite supply chain woes, mean time, the supposed auto supply chain leaders such as GM and Toyota have had to dial back production due to . . . supply chain.
You have the heart of a teacher. Perfect balance in simplifying (without oversimplifying) a complex subject. Glad you're pursuing this full-time. See you on Patreon!
@@thelimitingfactor Sandy demonstrated the concept nicely in his examination of the Polestar rear suspension. Precision machined holes in castings to ensure correct alignment.
@otheym okay but they aren't using it wrong... Meanings change, and while you can still use decimate as he does in the video, it primarily means: "kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage or part of."
I stumbled upon your channel thanks to the YT algorithm and I'm very happy that I did! Loved the in depth details and the great footage that you collected! A few years ago I had the privilege to visit the Tesla factory in Fremont. There I saw the enormous sheet body stamping press that they had in operation. It was part of the factory when they bought the factory from GM (NUMMI) and I think that (at the time?) it was the largest body stamping press in the world. The pace of pressing sheet metal was phenomenal and mesmerizing! It is interesting to see how they are now moving on to gigapress for castings, a great innovation! It shows that Tesla doesn't only innovate on electronics and software but also dare to think out of the box in more traditional automotive design/manufacturing.
Great video, a few key things here, Mould flow analysis software is a good starting point but it will only get you so far. They would have had to countless trials, and would have probably spent a small fortune getting the mould to work. The real credit must go the toolmakers and casting technician that got this to work. Moulding can also result in warped parts, the real accuracy come from the next stage in the process where they would use a CNC to machine datums, mounting points and holes so the parts align when assembling.
Awesome insights! I was wondering about this! Also, worth noting that there is no machining or datums... www.sae.org/news/2020/06/tesla-model-y-big-castings
No clue! I need to interview Sandy Munro. I have a load of questions and I'm definitely not an expert, let alone seen one of these in real life. Sandy has.
This is the best video I have seen yet on Gigacastings. Everything from Die Design, Alloy, Die Cast Machine and flow of metal is covered with much more detail than most realize. Good job!
The journey as you have developed this channel has been an enjoyable trip. Few here on RU-vid have all the qualities that you possess. I see you as becoming one of the top channels here. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge and insight. I hope this journey lasts many more years.
This behind the scenes video was amazing in a number of respects. This technology is something that unless you worked in the industry you would never have heard of. It showed to me the brilliant thought process that went into the development of a brand new approach to constuction methods that Tesla have adopted. Musk simply blows me away with all the inovations that he has bought to not only the auto industry but the space industry as well. Of course he will have a team of people behind him that advise but ultimately it is entrierly up to him to rubber stamp the go ahead with innovative processes that make him the leader in his field. Fantastic instuctional video, well done Sir.
16:45 was so beautifully succinct. I am over the moon to see you covering another topic of advanced manufacturing & engineering. It's not confirming a bias that Tesla rocks -- it's diving into it as a subject and we discover how Tesla is rocking it. I'm upgrading my Patreon right now and so should anyone reading this. edit: turns out my Patreon had an expired CC. I am a fraud. Sorry Jordan.
I think this channel deserves as much support as possible. I'm not in a position to do so because while this fella was in class studying math and science I was out behind the sports shack smokin dope and snortin meth. Hence at 66 I'm still working for minimum wage!
This is the first video I've watched of yours and I was heavily invested in the way you presented the material. I didn't want this video to end! There's not enough information on the science of manufacturing on youtube and this is making me wish I was studying materials engineering instead of electrical.
I spent a year upgrading the PLC's on GM's plastic casting machines for their corvette trim. Those machines were incredibly large and complex. It was the gravyy~est work I've ever done.
A micrometer-precision explanation of the benefits of casting. My paraphrase: variation is the enemy, and casting greatly improves repeatability, which reduces variation. Expect consistent, amazingly precise fit and finish. But more importantly we can also expect lower cost, faster production, greater strength and lower weight. Not easy, but it will revolutionize auto manufacturing, and will be comparable in importance to Henry Ford's assembly line. We live an a fantastic age. Another excellent job, Jordan!
Jordan, you knocked it out of the park with this one. This is the best video out there on how the Giga-casting works and the value it provides. Professional and well done! I think Tesla should hire you to explain to the rest of the world what they are doing.
It seems very convenient that suppliers exist for casting machines this big when Tesla is virtually the only customer. I wonder if Idra decided to make machines this big because Tesla asked them to or whether they coincidentally decided to do it on their own at the same time.
I suspect Tesla tried a smaller machine for the 2 piece casting Sandy Munro was showing, then (as seems to be the case with Tesla) they asked "can you double the size?"
What's old is new! It's nice to see that Tesla is getting close to the cast aluminum fenders and bodies that Pierce-Arrow used 112-years ago for it's cars like the 1909 Model 24.
Jordan, I share your vids with my father, way in his seventies, who is interested in the world and where it is going(besides circling the sun at some degree of arc). He phones me to say what an incredible job you and Tesla are doing..... You are being mentioned in one breath with Tesla.
Besides this being an excellent and educational presentation, the main thing it conveys to me is the inherent superiority of Tesla's future products which incorporate "giga casting". I'd say that, unless there are important "sea changes" amongst Tesla's competing manufacturers, few of them, if any, have a snowball's chance in hell of besting Tesla!
Your videos are astounding! Some Tesla nerds like myself already knew all of this from hours of other videos, but you put them all together in a really really comprehensible way. Well done! This video should be required viewing for every oem's executive leadership and department heads. If it doesn't scare them into action nothing will.
panel gaps and fit and finish are very important actually, that's the first thing people see when they buy a new car. It's what makes the car feel like it's well put together... It matters.
"warped perception" is exactly what your comment is. Panel gaps became the new tire kicking after Lexus had their famous commercial. Not only did it sell their cars over their competitors, but it made people look at their current cars and see flaws persuading them to buy new. As a new car company it allowed Lexus to establish themselves quickly without waiting for years of early adopters to praise their vehicles to their friends. A brilliant piece of advertising that unfortunately created a warped perception in how people view quality. "Getting it off the lot quality" is just that. Panel gaps have little to do with longevity, noise or anything beyond some barely noticeable looks. The rubber seal, sound deadening and sealants are the mechanical aspects that matter here. Now there are rare exceptions, but if you have to pull out a caliper or a marble it doesn't matter. Car companies solve their problems in waves. They prioritize issues, then put their best engineers on the problems that are perceived to matter. If panel gaps are a thing then engineers skip other issues that might be more important. Planned obsolescence also prioritizes short term quality and lot quality over longevity. I personally worked with roof rails and the scratch specs of a solid piece of aluminum that's on the roof was very high. Especially considering the vehicles I saw them going on were absolute junk 5 years later. You see stupid people are blinded by shiny stuff and panel gaps became one of those shiny things.
It’s cosmetic. Sure it matters a little. I had a 2014 Cayenne Diesel. Beautifully crafted. But it was plagued by problems: ECU went out at 10k miles (16k km). DEF pump at 90k miles and a Transmission at 118k miles. All left me stranded and was in the shop weeks and DEF pump was $1800, XMSN was $8800. My Tesla Model X. Has gaps and panel position/door alignment issues - millimeters mind you, but IT HAS NEVER LEFT ME STRANDED. No tow trucks required. See the difference? I’d rather it be reliable and never leave me stranded then to be worried about millimeter size panel gaps.
19:22 long road. Thank you for taking us along, this was a really good exposure to topics that I wouldn't know where to find the infirmation. Thanks...
This is a great vid ! Thanks ! One thing: you didn’t mention that if a casting is defective, ITS NO PROBLEM ! toss it back into the melting pot. Legacy cannot do this. It’s like painter Bob Ross. “We don’t make mistakes here, we just have happy little accidents”
The prime factor in achieving high quality HPDC is to have a continuously running process. You need the temperature of the die to stay as constant as possible. Basically as long as you keep the process running at constant speed you are ok, any planned or unplanned stops will be problematic.
Great work as always! I would bet good money SpaceX helped deal with the extreme pressures needed for the Giga Casting. They have entire teams dedicated to engineering the best pressure vessels in the world. Another way Elon is able to take lessons from one business to the others.
I'll believe it when I see it on the road for 5 or 10 years, the skipping of normally critical steps in the castings makes me very concerned to own one for a long time, namely if the magic alloy is more susceptible to corrosion and stress fractures than tesla claims
Superb, professional analysis. Exceedingly well-produced and presented. Engaging and endearing commentary, intelligently described. A definite like & subscribe and (resources-permitting) will join your patreon community. Quality like this needs suppoirting.
Keep up the brilliant productions, Elon. It's always preferable in biz to keep one step ahead of competition, and this is a great presentation of what goes on behind the scenes, thank you!
First time I see one of your videos and I loved every second, subbed instantly. Very well researched, excellently explained and honest in what is objective information and what is an estimation of your own. I admire very much Elon and Tesla for what they are doing. Your video made me appreciate it even more.
Just found your channel, or it found me. In either case, I'm glad. I've never heard a better explanation. I'll be checking out more of your episodes. Thanks Bob
You are right, the larger the company the larger the internal politics is and it is harder to adopt new technologies for those companies. Have seen it so many times. I would not be surprised if many large automaker companies will not be here after 10 years because Tesla is innovating so fast that they will not be able to compete.
Jordan, you mentioned having to design the dies to be in a shape that would flow well. How limiting do you think that issue is? Are there wide ranges of shapes that just don't flow well and would require designing the car around? Or is it really just micro shape adjustments to address flow issues?
Well, I worked at an Honda aluminum foundry (pistons) for a summer. They had us working three shifts checking for cold shut because 1/100,000 vehicle engines were blowing up due to cold shut that was so fine it couldn't be seen by the naked eye. We talked to the engineers every day and they would tweak the flow and the molds. I don't know how much of a problem it is for Tesla, but I do know that cold shut can create hairline weaknesses that are a bitch of a problem to solve, and that's for something as small and simple as a piston that's chunky and has no fine or intricate aspects. It wouldn't just be the shape, it's the injection pressure, the nature of the alloy, the temperature of the alloy, the temperature of the die, and how you structure the channels that flow into the die. I don't think it would effect the shape of the die at a macro level, just the finer points of the design. But, I'm no expert!
@@thelimitingfactor I would imagine the warmer (hotter?) you keep the die, the better? There may actually be an advantage to running the machine faster?
Bloggers like you are doing a great service to Tesla and the buyers as we become aware of the hidden high quality of Tesla cars. Please do a video on comparison of erosion, crashes, stresses etc during the life of other cars vs Tesla. I am sure Tesla would win hands down and Tesla owners would be delighted to know that they have the best quality possible and Tesla is following CANI--CONSTANT AND NEVER ENDING INNOVATION.
300-series aluminum alloys are known for low impact toughness due to silicon stringers. It's possible this alloy has found a way around this, but if not, I'd expect poor crash test performance.
@@andyspam7663 that's exactly what I was thinking, I love companies that pioneer, but it's just sort of weird that every time somebody talks about Tesla or SpaceX, they seem to think that anything they make just doesn't exist, they are trying new things and that's pretty cool. I would also imagine that repairing these parts after a crash would be a nightmare.
This presentation was Superior in all respects playing simple easy-to-understand but highly Technical and I understand it as being a tool die and mold maker for 46 years
@@xXZ31t6esTXx I don't really see any making much of an effort, the biggest one trying is VW... Even then, many will survive because governaments will bail them out
@@xXZ31t6esTXx BYD Hyundai (group, Kia) Why? Vertical integration. VAG (thanks to Dieselgate... Oooo the irony!?) Then mergers. (PSA... BEFORE they were saddled with Chrysler, that may have been a mistake) Also depends on who builds "the" next gen battery..... and who they're in bed with. Of the "new boys" I can see someone making an offer for Canoo. If not, and Canoo make it to market, they'll do well. Rivian will be fine. Lucid, 90%
Fantastic video! One important disadvantage of these large castings was not discussed. When the large casting is hit in whatever small traffic accident, the car will be total loss!
If Tesla could put its casting machines near an aluminum foundry, they could get the molten aluminum direct from the foundry furnace and eliminate the energy cost of re-melting the aluminum. As a bonus, that would also reduce slag and other defects. Double benefit!
Fantastic ! A really informative crash course in auto manufacturing, engineering, etc. The technology is 'a bit above my pay grade' but absorbed what I could. And it says a LOT that Elon Musk took the Detroit engineer's constructive advice to heart, and then some.
What I find so amazing is how fast Elon Musk companies can evolve. Tesla built a factory and equipped it to build cars using standard methods. Then they witnessed first hand all the shortfalls. They found new ways to build and wasted no time adapting. How he encouraged people to do this is just mind boggling. They are not afraid to fail . They learn by their mistakes. Maybe a lesson in life for all of us . Great job on this presentation.
Great video. Very detailed! One thought. A frequently cited disadvantage of using Gigacastings is difficulty replacing/repairing parts after cars get in accidents. I'd have loved the video to cover whether there's any truth to this.
One option is to retrieve the front casting from rear ended cars and the rear casting from cars that drive into something solid and now you have lots of spare castings for repairs.
this doesnt afford any cost savings as you are relying on the same source of parts. manufacturer holds 100% of replacement parts production until a competition can find a profit. and until that happens you are still paying exorbenent prices.
It has been a long road from mine to battery pack, but it's been one of the most fascinating deep-dives ever on youtube. RU-vid Gem quality. Truly. Many thanks Jordan.
I'm usually a critic for these kind of videos. Or I just switch to another video after a few minutes... But you had a nice stead slow of information in an easy to understand and linear fashion. Thanks for making this video! I'll be sure to check the rest of your uploads out. Have a nice day.
So for the aluminum alloy. The silicon is standard for casting and fluidity and precipitates out as it cools. The copper and magnesium both change what intermetallic silicon compound precipitates form and allow for a slightly wider solidification range. The iron and manganese change these precipitates from platelike to star shaped. (I believe by nucleation.) Nothing screams unusual other than they could be spending more time in the mold to precipitate harden the aluminun alloy or refine any grains by changing the cooling rate. It's possible that the added mold time is a fixed issue for the high strength casting alloy chosen while minimizing porosity. I don't see anything unusual. Some of the trace alloys are simply from using less refined raw materials or may act as further structure/precipitate refiners. Tesla started out with the right amounts of most of these alloy constituents for strength based on precipitates then probably scaled back what they could. (I don't really see any aluminum BMG alloys included. Or exotic stuff outside of the Vanadium) They may further refine the alloy with mold cycle times and see what trade offs they have. Or keep with what is strongest if cycle time is not the limiting factor for the mold. I will say that their metallurgical folks are reading and implementing alloy additions based on research papers published in 2017.
Interesting! Thanks for the input! This makes me wonder why Munro said he's never seen it before then, and why other people are using HIPing and coatings for aluminum?
imagine the improvements in cost and production times, not to mention the rigidity, alignment and overall improvements in the entire chassis structure where they to employ a single casting
13:06 I have been hearing about anodized aluminum for 20 years, and just now, with your pronunciation, realized it literally means 'anode'. Incredible.
Usually for chassis & body-in-white aluminum castings, the parts are not anodized (costs are way too high). They are e-coated, that means painted using a cataphoresis process.
Another great video from you! and tis one shows clearly where Tesla has the most advanced techniques.. Tesla alloy is the reason for them to be able to use awesome machinery
they could be running the machines slow right now for a run-in, or break-in of the dies. I've been in few machine shops and have worked in a foundry as Maintenance. and when a new die was set we would run up slowly to ensure the process was correct and for testing (metallurgy).
Hi Jordan. One thing that keeps bugging me about the GigaPress concept is why do they have to cast so big a piece at the same time. To my understanding, a few pieces, well thought, accurately fit and assembled by means of a few fixing and bolting points, could be as solid, as rigid, be as accurate and allow easier repair and replacement in case of accidents. Mega-Presses could do it as well, perhaps!
Hmm. The new alloy almost entirely made of aluminum and silicon should make for a very corrosion resistant material. I imagine this is why they feel they can go without sophisticated coatings like anodization. The lack of other major alloying elements is interesting and I suspect this in part has to do with corrosion resistance.
