1752 A DIY Sand Battery - The Theory, Practice And Use

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Don't forget to check out Luke's channel found here / @tntomnibus
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19 ноя 2022

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@jamaraquai4224 Год назад

After we saw the giant Finnish model, we built a sand battery for our bus-turned-tiny-house since propane heating gets expensive quickly, wood burning presents issues with ventilation, and we always have more solar power than we have use for. Currently I have the battery set up to be plugged in and turned on/off with a cheapo Christmas tree foot switch, and it's been wonderful and so much more efficient than I could've possibly imagined. A single, tiny space heater will drain our +300ah battery bank in a matter of hours, and all that heat disappears the second it's turned off. With the sand battery, though, we can leave it on all night, get the bus nice and toasty, and for upwards of 5 hours after it's been shut off we can *keep* the bus warm and cozy, and all without making so much as a dent on our battery bank. On top of that, should we get a week of rubbish weather where we're not getting a full recharge on the LiFe batteries, our baby alcohol burners under the battery heat it up just as well and, again, at a fraction of the price of propane. I had the same idea to use a series of peltier devices to reclaim some of the heat energy and put in into a heat dump for our hot water. Still need to sort out the logistics of that project, but we've been wonderfully pleased with our sand-in-steel heater. ^.^

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

nice share mate - always good to hear of a practical example - cheers

@pa_maj.MARTINI-van-MAN Год назад

Ethanol has an energy value of 29.7 MJ/KG compared to propane and butane at around 50MJ/KG. Gas if purchased in bottles over 6kg (the bigger the cheaper) for me, the price of Ethanol, even buying in bulk...gas works out much better. If you don't mind me asking, but where and for how much cost do you get your alcohol jamaraquai4224? I cannot get a Good deal on it anywhere. Even purchasing Small cannisters of butane, adding up the weight/calorific value, the small cannisters of butane work out better value for me; purchased in bulk of-course.

@jamaraquai4224 Год назад

@@pa_maj.MARTINI-van-MAN I always have a supply of denatured alcohol on hand for woodworking. Locally it's roughly $15/gal, and after multiple tests, the alcohol burners burn through roughly 1/2c of alcohol in 2hrs. The sand battery heats up with the burners in 30mins. Make no mistake: I'm not saying that heating the sand battery with alcohol burners is more efficient than using butane, propane, or certainly gas, but ethanol burns clean where gas does not, and leading a mobile and minimal lifestyle, I don't have the luxury of hauling around multiple tanks of fuel. We use excess solar power to charge our sand battery: the burners work extremely well in a pinch, tho. (:

@pa_maj.MARTINI-van-MAN Год назад

@@jamaraquai4224 I guess it was the "at a fraction of the price of propane" made me wonder. Yes, Ethanol burns clean and I do have a couple of gallons of the stuff for my alcohol stoves. Butane is a rather safe gas compared to propane (less pressure) and should burn clean like alcohol giving off carbon dioxide and H2O (good old water). Like any flame, complete combustion is what we're after jamaraquai. I guess if it's only now and then, using the alcohol stove to heat the sand battery, it's not too bad. Here in Northern Ireland, we'd never get enough solar for use in a sand battery for heating when a Good heater is really needed unfortunately. Anyway, all the best jamaraquai 👍

@jamaraquai4224 Год назад

@@pa_maj.MARTINI-van-MAN Yeah, where you're at, wind turbines would be a much more stable source of energy for "charging" a sand battery. Sorry for any confusion we might have caused! (:

@jamesross1003 Год назад

We did something similar in a college physics class. The class built it with salts rather than sand. We heated the salt until it melted then placed it in an insulated container. I believe it was epsom salts but can't remember for sure. It stayed hot for days. We slow cooked a ham using the residual heat the next day. We had a lot of fun in that class. Do your research on safety folks. Notice Rob is using kiln dried sand. If it is not properly dry moisture will come off of what you are heating, therefore do not enclose it in an airtight container to heat it. It might build up pressure otherwise and might rupture or on cooling collapse your vessel. Rob's playing with fire video applies to all things, not just fire. I really enjoy these kinds of videos. Thanks Rob!

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

that's a good point mate - I actually meant to mention it but forgot - thanks for taking the time to point that out

@Meanie010 Год назад

I've always liked the idea of using crushed glass that can't be recycled in a sand battery. It's not just free, some places will pay you to take their waste glass. You can guarantee that its chemically pure and inert, and you'll comfortably be able to heat it up to 1500K if you want without any volatility. It ticks all the boxes of clean energy storage, simple, cheap, reliable, and doesn't require raw material mining.

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

that is a good idea mate - thank you for sharing

@kitemanmusic Год назад

You will have to somehow grind up the glass. Tedious!

@deadprivacy Год назад

@@kitemanmusic not to mention bloody dangerous, the finer you get the more silicosis potential...

@originsdecoded3508 Год назад

@@kitemanmusic And just how small would we have to grind them?

@nathanwaller7242 Год назад

@@kitemanmusic ball Mill

@dan1694 Год назад

This video Sir is exactly why I've chosen to support you vs other youtubers. You seem to have a genuine desire to help your fellow man and are a great educator as well. As of late I've seen more videos concerning sand batteries being produced. Lots of folks are starting to experiment with different approaches to this fascinating topic. Might I ask Sir if you could possibly explore this subject further. There's not a lot of material out there yet and a collaborative effort might defer the time and cost of developing a turn key system. Thanks again Sir, Daniel Pattison

@audiowan Год назад

Heres an experiment to try; I once made a battery out of (Sodium Sulfate) , i would heat up the ( Na2SO4 ) crystals till they melted into a liquid... then the liquid could be stored for many , many days; if you discharge an electrical arc (such as from a gas fire pit piezo) , the arc will begin a reaction where lots and lots of heat is given off as the liquid then returns to a solid crystal again; this process can be repeated ; over and over... a great battery. Thank you Robert for these videos to keep our minds sharp.

@90FF1 Год назад

Very interesting. Had not given this a moments thought. Thank you. Sand is abundant and cheap to free. Glass beads like this used in industrial blasting cabinets are an option. Almost everything presents some potential hazard. We just prepare for those we know and pray for divine intervention for those we don't

@Dr-Sy Год назад

A rocket stove with a slightly larger chimney that fits over a smaller chimney with at least a 1 inch gap between both chimneys, Then fill the 1 inch gap with sand. You then have a rocket stove sand battery.

@hansscholte5472 Год назад

I think that could work, but the type of sand is essential; what if it becomes a ‘rock’ in your chimney: you’ll never be able to move it anymore..

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

yep - though I have already done something similar mate

@kilokilos Год назад

@@hansscholte5472 what kind of sand ?

@jcwoods2311 Год назад

@@ThinkingandTinkering Quite a few people in the US Midwest create thermal mass collectors to capture the last bit of heat from the flue before it's expelled from the house. I've seen a 10' long by 28" square stone and sand mass bench with the flue from the rocket stove running through it. Ends are removable for cleaning if necessary, but if he burns properly seasoned hardwood or pellets there isn't a need. A few hours of burning kept the whole place warm all night, my dog ended up sleeping on it toward morning. Thanks Robert, love your videos and learn a great deal as always.

@goiterlanternbase Год назад

It may not be very effective, but combine that with a Stirling powered generator and you have a adaptive power source. While you are active, you can fire the stove and gain a lot of energy. At rest, you have the dribble out of the sand battery, to still run background stuff like a clock.

@thedustmancometh Год назад

A friend of mine is a potter, and has a tiny wood stove COVERED (and surrounded) by various clay pots and vases. It acts as his heat battery and radiator. (Don’t set a room temp clay pot on a hot stove, or dump water into a hot pot- heat shock can cause the pot to crack or explode). It works well.

@donhippy3050 Год назад

Thank you Robert , you are so helpful in explaining subjects . I will always watch.

@tomasviane3844 Год назад

I'm inspired by your videos, so I bought myself a bag of fine sand today. I have (and use) a coal and wood stove, so tomorrow will fill up an iron kettle with sand and put it on the stove. Once the stove cools down, I will put that kettle under my chair 🙂 I hope to get some radiant heat from it.

@Laurel-Crowned 5 месяцев назад

Interested in knowing how it worked for you!

@AlienLivesMatter Год назад

Thanks for the commenter that first mentioned the idea

@StephenStHill-si7en Год назад

In steam trains, they used sand boxes. One use was to sprinkle some sand on the track as required to increase grip. The other was to heat sand which would be distributed by the "sandman" to replace the sand in the cabin heaters for the passengers. The Seekers' song Morningtown Ride mentions, "sandman swings the lantern to show that all is well".

@BrandonTorres-rn9pq Год назад

I've been watching your videos for some time now. I live off grid and the things you teach and demonstrate are amazingly useful to my lifestyle. I am going to try this out as a heater for winter in a 55gallon steel drum with copper coil to run water through. Ofcourse this will be a all around water heater as well not just for room heating. Thanks for the great videos and for teaching me so many things. I also may throw in a peltier or two to generate some electricity as well since the surface area will be substantial. Thanks for all the videos! 🐅

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

wow - thank you mate and thank you for posting that

@lauriestlyon8773 Год назад

It would be great if you could do a video of your project when you have done it.

@davidmorinmusic Год назад

Hey Robert, a little off topic but is your graphene battery you built in that scooter still working ? I’m wondering how it’s held up during this time.

@jamaraquai4224 Год назад

As a fellow off-gridder who has already built a sand battery, just bear in mind, that the larger your battery, the more time and energy it will take to "power" it. Obviously we have no idea what kind of excess energy you're working with, but a 55gal drum will take a pretty significant amount of time and energy to heat up sufficiently to warm a house and/or heat water. If you're constantly dumping energy into it, then you'll be fine (eventually), but if you can only feed the battery intermittently as is often the case with solar/wind power, then don't forget to plan way ahead for your shower. ;)

@huwkelvinmorgan3575 Год назад

@@davidmorinmusic i remember that scooter battery i wonder if its still holding the same charge and how many cycles has it done ?

@1ZiKmA1 Год назад

Just simply friggin inspirational, there is so much we can do with this, like heating homes for the winter, I'm planning on something like this

@ArcanusLibero Год назад

Fun project. Thanks for sharing.

@RiDankulous Месяц назад

I have an idea and keep in mind it's surely been thought of by people other than me before now. I was thinking of some day testing it. Here's my idea, and note I'm not HVAC or energy specialist: Take a large, heavily insulated box of sand and sit it next to a house. Use parabolic mirrors or other sunlight concentrators to shine like directly through glass onto the sand. This is the heat acquisition part of the device. Then, for distribution: Have two heavily insulated ducts, one connected between the top of the box and, through the house wall and positioned where the heat will be sent out. Have another connected to the bottom of the box and entering the house: position it anywhere in the house. Possibly not even have the 2nd one for pulling in air: potentially just pull air directly from the bottom of the box outside. The box pulls the hottest air, naturally rising to the top of the box, into the house and the coolest, from the bottom. At this point, it would require zero electricity! However, there is a cost to reducing humidity which comes from heating air. If the room's air does not move at some rate to the outside, such as a vents somewhere in the room, then mold may develop. In addition, to use electricity a dehumidifier could be used. I do not know if that would be necessary. Of course there's efficiency loss of the heating, theoretically, because of venting, but that is acceptable. Simply have enough sand in the pit: it could be many tons of sand: quite easy to build of time. It makes me wonder why there aren't such devices considering why sand batteries are praised so widely among many scientists. Maybe I just haven't heard from the skeptic scientists. The only possible downside I might think there *could* be is that it would require so much sand and a place to put it that the cost of installation could be just enormous and impractical for small lots. We have industry so there's no excuse other than financial why it couldn't be done. A house would be totally independent of any outside energy for heat forever: no regular maintenance foreseen. No moving parts!

@mikej9062 Год назад

Some of your videos are just completely ahead of the pack in terms of their long-term impact and I really think that this is one of them. Thank you so much for making this, Robert.

@hankbender2 Год назад

Your channel has been a great source of inspiration for me and my family boy 6 year old son is very eager to attempt some of your projects I also couldn't help but think of connecting your ingenuity with the need in Ukraine going into this winter The rocket stove married with the hot water could could literally be a life saver.

@vanhetgoor 25 минут назад

The word battery is normally used for things that can store electrical energy. Heating up a bucket of sand is more compatible with a stone you can heat up in a magnetron oven to keep pots and pans warm. Warming up the sand does not make the television work when the solar panels are sleeping during the night.

@moultan Год назад

Hey Rob, thanks for the video, possibly one my favourites so far 🥰 will be renewing my membership shortly.

@j.d.rockerfella5417 8 месяцев назад

Greetz! Love your videos Sir. Just a suggestion for your consideration and for anybody else thinking about experimenting with this idea... I would create a hole in the side of the container and mount the heater element through the hole from the outside in the same manner as it would be mounted through the wall of a water heater in order to keep the electrical connections out of the intense heat as they were obviously not intended nor designed to exist within a super-heated environment.

@triedzidono Год назад

Hugely valuable lesson. Ohms law in plain english, with an understandable example & a practical application. Robert Murray-Smith, thank you. my brain -Thanks you so much. sweeping away the fog of a failed education 1 video at a time. I really like the diagrams you flash up. I pause the video and have learned so much from some of them & you don't over show anything. good on you.

@edialbert8035 Год назад

Thank you very much for all the education content that you put out! As soon as my budget will allow it, I will become a channel member and give some donation. Once again thank you very much and I wish you the very best!!

@dennisjohnson8753 Год назад

Good introduction to sand batteries

@rickymcguire9493 Год назад

Hi. Love your direction. I have an old hot water heater that rusted out. Will not hold water but will hold 50 gallons of sand and comes complete with heating elements. I see a few ways to use it with your ideas. Keep the great ideas coming. Your an inspiration!!!

@joelee2371 Год назад

The water acts as a coolant for the elements; otherwise they will overheat and burn out rapidly.

@rickymcguire9493 Год назад

I know. But have already upgraded those with two stove eye elements. Working on getting the time to fill it with sand now. And going to experiment with the heater elements to see if i use low voltage from a 12 colt batrery, weather or not it will produce useful heat without burning out. Should heat up less if not given the 220 volts they were designed for. Thanks for the warning. I should of updated my reply when i started planning. Have a great Thanksgiving!!!

@ffaubert1 Год назад

@@joelee2371 So, what's the difference? The heating coil here came out of a kettle. I would imagine the water in the kettle has heat transfered to it from the heating coil just like a water heater. As long as the medium (sand or water) is removing the heat buildup from the elements at a reasonable rate, everything should be ok correct? Otherwise Robert's experiment here will have an extremely short life span.

@joelee2371 Год назад

@@ffaubert1 the sand will not conduct heat away from the element as rapidly as water, and the element will overheat and burn up. The temp of the element can be reduced by reducing the voltage to the element but that defeats the purpose.

@XSR_RUGGER Год назад

@@joelee2371 depending on use you wouldn't need to heat it as fast as one would want to heat water so you could run a lower voltage to it to preserve the elements. The sand will hold the heat longer as well. It all depends on what the application of the heated sand would be.

@farmboycharlie6543 Год назад

Something else to keep in mind is sand Isanti insulator. It's basically raw glass. To get proper conductivity without extreme temp. Clean washed sand like used in cement isn't the best. But beach sand is actually good has to do with being rolled by water and not cut or crushed. Dirty sand is good too. Just something I've found with my off grid thermal storage units (batteries) . Using as a dump load for my masonry stoves heat exchanger. End use is radiant floor heat. Turns a good evening fire into the night and next days room heat.

@frederickbowdler8169 Год назад

Very useful for heating the greenhouse seed trays from my wind generator. Thanks so much Merry Christmas to you .

@mikedodger7898 Год назад

Wow. My head is spinning with these possibilities. Good job 👌

@edwardcarlton Год назад

Possibly my favorite internet teacher.

@sparkysho-ze7nm 3 месяца назад

100%

@kevinleebailey Год назад

That practical use part near the end of the video puts the sand battery in to full perspective. Anyone who wants or is thinking about going off grid. There's your much cheaper way to store your energy and or excess energy. This would or should last a lifetime or possibly many life times and would be far far cheaper and easier to maintain than normal batteries. Thanks Rob ! 👍

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

exactly mate - we use so much energy in heating and hardly any in direct electric - thermal batteries make such sense to me

@HotRod12667 Год назад

Also better for the environment.

@peterwilson5528 4 месяца назад

If you work out a way to bottle your enthusiasm then you have given the whole world an equally great gift to the wonderful knowledge you post. Many thanks again. "Knowledge is a matter of science and no dishonesty or conceit whatsoever is permissible. What is required is definitely the reverse - honesty and modesty." Mao Zedong :)

@VikingPathfinder Год назад

I am loving these sand battery videos. Keep them coming!

@jerrodlopes186 Год назад

Thank you, sir, very much for this simple and concise explanation. I may experiment with charging a sand battery with a compost pile/pit. The new haircut looks good, btw. Be well.

@walkstheman98 Год назад

I've seen a video of someone putting a pot into something of similar size and making a solar powered oven. It was really well insulated as well. They collected heat all day and cooked at night

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

that's clever

@wisewise7396 11 месяцев назад

Years I've been confused by this problem and in trying to get to the bottom point and I couldn't, now thanks to you it is apparent. many thanks...

@adamcrofts58 Год назад

Wow, thankyou. That has helped me a lot. I just need to try out some stuff with temperatures of rotting garden waste. Was thinking about running water pipes through bales of hay but it seems apparent that a core of sand would be better. Which to my way of thinking would act both ways in as much that if the rotting material started to drop in temp the the sand would keep it warm thus allowing the material that is rotting to keep up the temp necessary for the rotting process. Sorry lots to think about here.

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

that's clever mate - I like where you are going with this - cheers

@seanhadley2672 Год назад

Brilliant, I was very interested in the commercial version of this that was covered on the BBC. I just need to fill my garage with sand now and get off this ridiculously expensive grid 🙂

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

ain't that the truth!

@seanhadley2672 Год назад

@@ThinkingandTinkering I do have a small follow up. Does the battery degrade over time or is this the future do you think?

@danielabrahams4061 Год назад

@@seanhadley2672 The electronics might degrade but I doubt the sand will.

@DavidKirwanirl Год назад

Fun videos as always! Thanks! Must add sand battery to list of projects now

@zahirnaseem7030 Год назад

Awesome video Robert. Thank you for a beautiful insight

@agritech802 Год назад

That was a real treat Robert, a lot of effort gone into it, I would love to see it done in a bigger scale with the insulation and crunch some numbers on it to see how many kwhs does it take per kg to heat it and how long does it retain the heat at different masses. BTW, i think the work you are doing is incredible so I've joined up as a member to do my little bit to support what you're doing, keep up the great work👍👍

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

it's a good point mate - but it has already been done at a bigger scale just check out what the Finns have done

@paulferris2218 Год назад

O Dem, that would be great, id love to see your results, do keep us in the loop for your update

@LittleBoobsLover Год назад

@@ThinkingandTinkering hello, there is also smaller scale company doing that type of battery - Caldera Warmstone - but they have only 2 wvideos on YT and no social media with no spec provided. CEO said he installed it in his house, but no more info about it.

@NatDak1 Год назад

Very interesting. I want to build a 100w thermoelectric generator for my woodstove and I could put the generator in a larger pot of sand to extend its energy production after the fire has gone out!

@mightyconker3903 Год назад

Or put the sand on the stove

@sparkysho-ze7nm 8 месяцев назад

Great video Mr Robert very well done

@MACLADILLY Год назад

Fascinating, yes!! Particularly interested in using as a possible dump load for my hydro generator

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

yes I like the dump load idea - it has seemed like madness to me that it is usually just a resistor in air - what a waste

@howardatherton3889 Год назад

Hi Robert. I noticed you can get large storage heater elements or oven/grill elements on their own instead of using / dismantling a kettle. Not too expensive maybe less than kettle if you look at the lengths of them

@Teknopottu Год назад

Good point, we have enough e-waste as it is. Best thing to do would be to re-use existing stuff. I will try a water heating element from an old washing machine.

@peterrose5373 Год назад

You can just buy nichrome wire in bulk, if that's all you're after.

@JAMcRae Год назад

this is very helpful. thank you! Im still at the mind experiment stage of making a sand battery to keep my horses’ water from freezing. Im thinking solar to charge a 12v battery. Battery to run heating element. heating element to charge sand battery. sand to release heat slowly below water buckets. This video illustrates the important step of “how the heck to you heat the sand”

@vidard9863 Год назад

including the battery is probably extra complication and expense you don't need. just run the solar to the heater let it heat up the sand all day and release the heat 24/7.

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

cheers mate

@JAMcRae Год назад

@@vidard9863 thanks - that sounds great! I will try that first. i have ordered a PTC element off amazon but i may have to ‘accidentally drop’ the kettle to get testing as per example above.

@ZsOtherBrother Год назад

@@JAMcRae We have no horses, (yet:), but I was thinking of making one for our hot water. In our area people throw away (or give away) their old electric ovens when they buy new ones. I think the heating element of such an oven, and its electrical connections, might be better suited for a sand battery than a kettle's, since kettle water only reach 100°C and the sand may get 2-3 times hotter, or even more. I also plan to construct some sort of heat exchanger, maybe from metal pipes, that can control the transfer of heat to the water, ( I've heard that being scalded in the shower isn't as much fun as it sounds :D)... you've probably thought of that too, but I thought I'd mention it anyway, just in case. Good luck.

@TheJimurq Год назад

I have an old 160 litre hot water cylinder. How about cutting the top off of it. Fill it with sand. Use the immersion heater to heat the sand, use the internal coil to run water through it and use that as a heat source? Already has insulation round it. Seems like an easy solution. Off to b&q tomorrow for some kiln dried sand...

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

nice

@rezablade1375 Год назад

THANK YOU & HAPPY NEW YEAR YOU BEAUTIFUL LEGEND ❤

@offgridwanabe Год назад

Totally a sand battery and very useful but I was hoping you would talk about the practicality of it 6 watts of heat would require a long preheat period when we likely would want to extract 1500 watts for any small room . The 6 watts could never keep up, but I love the idea. The dump load is a great idea even when people have battery storage with renewable energy when the battery is on float all power is diverted or just lost. There are people in Canada who heat their homes with 24 volts applied to long wires embedded in concrete slab. I wonder what the life expectancy of the element is when heated out of water the cooling agent. Thanks for the video your slant is always interesting.

@thefallenone7988 Год назад

Really ? I'm going to make a small one to check that out . Thanks 😊

@agritech802 Год назад

Good point, I would like to see some experiments done to see how many kwhs it takes to heat a kg of sand using a heating element or heat pump. I think they use a heat pump in Finland

@johnbeaule3393 Год назад

@@agritech802 20kg of sand in a SS stock pot, with 200w of solar panels with 2 cooking elements. An average 124W going in. Started at 9:00, a temperature censor on the side (not in the center), 10:40 warm to touch 115kwh, 12:10 - 105F - 304kwh, 12:50 - 120F - 381kwh, 15:46 - 168F - 734kwh, 16:43 - 175F - 849kwh, stop at 18:15 - 197F - 997kwh. Center of pot was 280F or 138 degree Celsius. I put a beach tower to keep the heat over night. 19:40 temperature is at 180F

@KevinColussi Год назад

Wondering about a sand battery using a cast or stamped bundt pan for baking. 1) Fill the bundt pan with sand 2) place an oil lamp jar in the center of the pan, using the center of the pan as a chimney (Vortex?) 3) Heat the sand and allow it to radiate over night. Better than the clay pot heaters, easier to make? IDK thoughts Robert? Love the content, keep up the great work!

@lesliecogan641 6 месяцев назад

I'm a literal person and can see your idea...I like it, but I can't visualize what you mean about placing a lamp oil jar in the center of a Bundt pan and about it acting like a chimney?? Sorry really lol...no oil in the jar, pretty sure 😂 ..can it be any jar.. I'm confused, and if its in the center of the pan, how with it covering that center hole, could any draw happen, making something you describe as a chimney. I really want to know your concept...I have sand, jars, and a bundt pan I'd rather use this way...help lol

@KevinColussi 6 месяцев назад

I have made the lamp (works great) and just use them to heat a piece of soapstone (pizza stone) and that works great for me! Good luck and stay warm!

@seankelly1291 Год назад

You, sir, are one of my lifelong heros!

@danielbuckman2727 Год назад

I absolutely love it. I've been thinking about building a sand battery for a while now. I feel totally inspired and ready to build this now. Would be great for charging small devices

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

awesome mate - cheers

@natanwhite.nd6948 Год назад

Great video would be interested to see wind turbine that you made work with that sand battery

@richardamullens Год назад

Specific heat of quartz 0.7 joules/gram/degree C. Specific heat of water 4.18 joules/gram/degree C. So, weight for weight, water can store 6 times as much heat. Therefore you would need to heat the sand from 20 to 500C to store as much energy as heating water from 20 to 100C. Density of quartz 2.65 g/cc - density of dry sand 1.6. A possible advantage of sand is that the air between the sand particles would lower the heat loss. I use a block of Serpentinite (density 2.6), heated in a microwave, then surrounded with insulation in place of a hot water bottle. Like sand it has the advantage that it doesn't evaporate. Then, the Bismuth in the Peltier Effect Device is going to melt at high temperatures. But a higher temperature would give a greater thermodynamic efficiency.

@NdxtremePro Год назад

With the sand being able to go as high as 1000 Celsius, does that mean the sand has the potential to hold 2 times as much heat?

@agritech802 Год назад

That's very interesting, I wonder if a sand with higher specific gravity like Galena would be better than quartz? Would be good to get some more feedback on that

@richardamullens Год назад

@@agritech802 Galena Sand is sand containing Galena - which is Lead Sulphide with small amounts of other sulphides maybe Antimony Sulphide and Silver Sulphide. It is the most common Lead ore. I would not recommend Galena Sand for this application as depending on the temperature, it may decompose and emit toxic fumes. Additionally according to Wikipedia, Lead Sulphide has a molecular weight of 240 and a heat capacity or specific heat of 46 Joules per mole. This translates to a specific heat of 46/240 or approximately 0.2 joules per gram whereas quartz sand has the value of about 0.7 - in other words quartz sand can hold 3.5 times as much as Galena per gram, so although Galena is more dense, as a material it will hold less heat.

@agritech802 Год назад

@@richardamullens that's very interesting, thanks for the feedback, I may go back to the drawing board🙂

@richardamullens Год назад

@@NdxtremePro Yes, with Sand you can hold twice as much heat - per gram as water heated to 100 C. You would need to insulate it well though to reduce heat loss at this temperature. Heat loss rises proportional to the surface area, whereas stored heat goes up by the volume. So heat storage in sand is favoured by having a large amount of sand.

@uwelehmaxx8416 Год назад

Man, I love your flucking channel more than any other when it boils down to just getting stuff done. I've been watching for 6 months now but I've even set up an account through a buddy(I'm a wild guy without a base,however not feral yet) so most things you do are very relevant for my lifestyle and also it seems that I think or imagine something and you are already doing it. You also remind me of one of the few teachers that I had respect for when I was an uncontrollable teenager. So I hope u appreciate my gratitude. Unfortunately for you I'm flucking broke so no donations just now but if I ever get a few quid I would buy u a beer anyway. Greetings from a damn cold East Germany , With your advice it gets warmer. My motto is "do everything like you mean it and don't fluck about"......You are the epitome of my motto. Thank You Sir.

@sweeniep 8 месяцев назад

Thank you Robert, you are 1 clever man, im learning so much from you... Blessings to you x

@stuartmccloud307 Год назад

Fascinating! I have to say that power supply looks like it came off the set of 'The Empire Strikes back'. I can only imagine the stories it could tell :)

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

lolol - it is an old one but not the oldest I have lol

@raven4291 Год назад

I really enjoy your videos, especially the bloopers. Question; Is it possible to DIY a Peltier at home, or is the device too complicated?

@johnx9318 11 месяцев назад

Brilliant! That woke my brain up - thanks!

@gregtaylor6146 Год назад

Brilliant Robert, I'd not heard about this before!

@michaeldibb Год назад

The specific heat capacity of water is 4.18kJ/kg/C, whereas sand is is about 0.8kJ/kg/C so for each 1kg of water it can store about 5.2 times as much energy than sand. Another way of looking at it is 1kg of water at 100C with have the same energy content as 1kg sand at 520C (or 5.2kg of sand at 100C)! There's a good RU-vid video that compare water ice cubes with stainless steel ice cubes, 'Are Steel Ice Cubes Better Than Regular Ice?' . It's really surprising how much more energy dense water has of steel.

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

yeah that's true but as I said in the video water has a sever limitation

@azlandpilotcar4450 Год назад

Definitely a great (and cheap!) way to smooth out intermittent energy and to reuse and store waste heat. A pan of water around your heat sink would have extended the run time, too. If we'd any sense, we would integrate these with wind and solar, and then rate the system output as a whole. Clay, glass, ash, and carbon make great storage too but sand is easy to handle. Mix in organic waste, and it would be a great flame bed for a syngas burner, too. Looking forward to what you and Luke do with these.

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

I agree - to my mind it is madness to use a dump load

@WriteInAaronBushnell Год назад

@@ThinkingandTinkering Agreed. Given what the power grid will pay, or won't pay, for electricity dumped onto the grid. If you were to take a domestic hot water tank and turn that into a sand battery, how long do you think that will stay hot for?

@danielabrahams4061 Год назад

@@WriteInAaronBushnell I think this will depend on how much insulation it has and what max temperature you run it to for example. I think a lot of the value in a sand battery is that you can run it at very high temperatures which will of course stay hotter longer.

@dudester873 5 месяцев назад

Thank you for this interesting information and going over Ohms Law. 👍

@stefaneekenulv419 Год назад

Amazing thread I have been searching for something like this for many months

@Frejjan Год назад

I find it fascinating that it is so easy and efficient to go from electricity to heat, but much more difficult to go from heat to electricity.

@mdjawaideqbal2941 Год назад

Second Law of Thermodynamics...

@Frejjan Год назад

@@mdjawaideqbal2941 I interpret your use of "..." as this should be something trivial/obvious? I don't see how this could not be fascinating and still be trivial for someone else? I really dislike this sort of elitism, if I interpret you correctly.

@mdjawaideqbal2941 Год назад

@@Frejjan I never wanted to present it as "trivial".... I know there is lot of negativity in youtube so maybe you took it that way 🙂. Actually i was suddenly fascinated when i thought maybe your observation is related to second law if thermydynamics because i was lately studying it purely for fun. isnt it fascinating how science gives seemingly simple laws but when you dive into them the implications are huge! I also have one doubt i wished to ask... so can i ask you? second law of thermodynamics is stated for heat engines.. so is it applicable for electricity? after posting the above comment i had this doubt... i was just thinking in terms of useful energy.. but not interms of heat energy or electrical energy.. i have basic understanding of thermodynamics but i find it absolutely fascinating..

@mdjawaideqbal2941 Год назад

And i used "..." because i was myself fascinated when i realised maybe your comment is connected to the second law.. please dont take it as sarcasm or elitism... in fact i am one of the most unelite kinda guy you will come across...

@Rouverius Год назад

I'm embarrassed to say that I thought a sand battery worked like a huge hourglass. Thanks for setting me straight on that one.

@Teknopottu Год назад

That could be one kind of gravity battery. Just flip it over when in need of power.

@wayne6220 Год назад

Hi Rob, It's a really good video. Thank you.

@matsuz100 Год назад

Pure gold thank you Robert.

@RichardCranium321 Год назад

My dad told me they use black sand in vacuum tubes as a solar charged sand battery... he said they reach past 300°F and maintain heat well through the night if they have enough mass.

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

that is an awesome idea

@TacoKhezis Год назад

Use stainless steal and frensel lenses to melt salt

@tesla747 Год назад

Who does? Have any pictures?

@terryl858 Год назад

Can you buy black sand is it more efficient what is the best material? To. Storeheat

@andrewclarke3622 Год назад

New to the channel and firstime comment. This is the first time I've heard of a sand battery. Very fascinating! This is a simple question, with the kettle element drawing only a half of an amp, how long did it take for the sand to reach 200c? This kind of stuff really is fascinating.

@geoffvdw Год назад

absolutely no way did that uninsulated cake tin hit 200C with only 6 watts. you're right to question it.

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

oh ages mate and I did wrap the tin in ceramic fibre insulation to get it there and took the insulation away for the demo - I suppose I should have said that but I did say int he video you had to insulate it - but my bad - sorry

@danielabrahams4061 Год назад

@@ThinkingandTinkering Thanks this is really important info, would you mind sharing how long 'ages' is ball park, is it 6hrs or 24hrs for example?

@bigchrisrogers Год назад

@@danielabrahams4061 The heat capacity of sand is around 830 watt.seconds per kilogram per degree centigrade. so a rise of 200 degrees for 2 kilograms at 6 watts should take 830*200*2/6 seconds, about 55 thousand seconds, about 15 hours. If well insulated could probably happen by next day.

@paulbeaumont2911 Год назад

Would it heat quicker if the sand was wet? Thinking the creation of steam/hot water rising up would heat the the higher grains, or am I off target here?

@keithdawe4866 Год назад

Thank you very much for taking the time to make a video. I learned a lot from you today

@adamoshea2793 Год назад

Probably one the best Channels on RU-vid

@ashyslashy5818 Год назад

WOW absolutely fabulous now to up this into a steam generator thank you Murray....

@willwade1101 Год назад

Luke could use a sand battery on his rocket stove while he's off gridding so that at night he doesn't have to wake up and stoke the fire so often. As the fire dies down the sand will release heat back into the air to keep him warm at night.

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

for sure mate

@gregwhiteside7045 Год назад

Amazing! Can you please tell us A) how long it took to heat the sand up to 200C using the 1/2 an amp element? and B) How long did the sand then take to cool back down?

@bombassbeefjerky9708 Год назад

Wait he did not tell us this info in the video,?

@gregwhiteside7045 Год назад

@@bombassbeefjerky9708 no he did not

@jeffersoncaetanoporto8249 6 месяцев назад

OBRIGADO PELA AULA MAGNÍFICA!! THANK YOU FOR THE MAGNIFICENT CLASS. ERA TUDO QUE EU ESTAVA PROCURANDO. IT WAS EVERYTHING I WAS LOOKING FOR. MUITO GRATO POR TUDO. VERY GRATEFUL FOR EVERYTHING. YOU GOT A SUBSCRIBER. SAUDAÇÕES DO BRASIL!!!

@gigmaresh8772 Год назад

The 4 minute mark made me flash back to Dudley Moore in 10 with his beach towels 😀

@agt155 Год назад

At those temps can you really use a copper water heat exchanger?

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

yes

@icebluscorpion Год назад

Hey Robert, Try Paraffin wax as Carnot battery because every phase change including from solid to liquid gives you double the amount of storage heat capacity/Storage

@technocracynow9339 Год назад

Nah checkout codyslab video about parrafin vs beeswax - use beeswax, buy local :P 🐝

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

it's a good idea mate and lots of materials will do a great job and you are right to point that out - but I did say that in the video - the benefit of sand is anyone can do it - but if you can afford better materials use better materials - thank you for taking the time to reinforce that point - cheers mate

@THEGLASSMANSWORLD Год назад

I wonder if yu could mix sand with wax?

@hamishadamson4628 Год назад

There's zero chance of sand catching on fire and a leak would be less likely and less dangerous. Also no fumes.

@icebluscorpion Год назад

@@hamishadamson4628 but no phase change and therefore no additional storage though.

@peterbeyer5755 Год назад

I stacked broken concrete in a wire cage around my wood heater in my garage, amazing how much heat the concrete retained.

@ZubairKhan-vs8fe Год назад

Brilliant channel. I learn alot from you.

@zipperdeedooha Год назад

Could you use a load of sand underneath a floor? Heat the sand to low temperature and let it percolate up?

@fransjebik8554 Год назад

Same as floor heating. You can use a heater wire with sensor.

@TheKlink Год назад

here's a question: have you heard of compressed earth (dirt) bricks, and could they be used as an alternative to sand?

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

yes

@hansscholte5472 Год назад

Sand is much cheaper

@TheKlink Год назад

@@hansscholte5472 the dirt's literally under my feet, I was just wondering.

@azmrl Год назад

@@hansscholte5472 it actually isn't "The global rate of sand use - which has tripled over the last two decades partially as a result of surging urbanization - far exceeds the natural rate at which sand is being replenished by the weathering of rocks by wind and water."

@maderightamerica3216 Год назад

I hope you dive deeper into how to make a sand battery Robert. So many of us would love to be able to create our own sand battery. I bought some land and a fairly new 39 foot trailaer. I am going to build a large geenhouse over the entire trailer and want to be able to heat my greenhouse without hooking up to the grid. I live in zone 7 so winter is mild here thank goodness. I loved your rocket stove video and I bought a rocket stove a while back and it works fantastic but I believe building a large sand battery 🔋 for heating my greenhouse would be a wise thing to do. As always, we love your video demonstrations sir. You are an awesome teacher. Take care my friend. I look forward to seeing you in your next video. MRA

@manicminer8813 Год назад

You're brilliant Robert, thank you for these videos

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

wow - cheers mate

@sarchlalaith8836 Год назад

Could a sand battery {for heat} be combined with an accumulator {gravity/stored/potential}

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

yes

@MikeSnifferpippets Год назад

From someone with 0 knowledge of big brain stuff, sounds like your trying to make a time machine ey?!

@MikeSnifferpippets Год назад

From someone with 0 knowledge of big brain stuff, sounds like your trying to make a time machine ey?!

@solodog71 Год назад

Amazing wealth of knowledge, thanks for sharing some of you`re work with us, its a lot of fun trying some of the idea`s out.

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

I am glad it was helpful mate - cheers

@zylascope Год назад

Awesome video Robert! It's fascinating stuff. I love it. Thanks for sharing :)

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

Glad you enjoyed it

@tjm1955 Год назад

Your channel is fantastic! I built a 4-ft x 8-ft solar air heater that gets up to about 250F on a clear sunny day here in Texas. I also built a 4-ft insulated sand battery cube that has an "inner air coil" of 4-inch aluminum flex duct , and an "outer air coil" with about a ton of sand all around and in-between the air coils. Using a solar panel and a battery and a 12v marine bilge fan, I've been blowing hot air into the inner coil in tests and have been able to heat the inner core of the sand battery to over 100F using only solar heated air and solar-charged battery power. Can use the outer coil with another fan to take heat out of the sand battery into my shop! Next, I'll be adding a 12v resistive heating element to the system to see if I can get the internal temp to about 200F. Thanks for all the ideas!

@agritech802 Год назад

Thanks for the feedback, I think the folks in Finland used a heat pump so it might need worth trying that as it would be cheaper to run than a heating element

@tjm1955 Год назад

Thank you. I'll think about that! My plan would be to use solar PV panels to charge a 12V battery bank to power the resistive heating element. Free power after initial purchase cost.

@agritech802 Год назад

@@tjm1955 yes good idea but heat the sand directly or else you'll lose efficiency twice and shorten the length of your battery unnecessarily

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

nice work you have been up there mate - I read what you posted with fascination - thanks for sharing

@thatguychris5654 Год назад

Catching the sun's heat instead of the photons gives double the energy capture without the expensive solar panels and electronics. The sand battery is perfectly suited for this! Another version is a climate battery typically used in greenhouses. Same principle, different application and materials.

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

for sure mate and cheers

@gillbatesemself3559 Год назад

Cheers Robert I was thinking of charging a home leisure battery with my wood burning stove as the heat source. Just incase there is a power cut😉

@WaylanEE Год назад

Whatched a few of these. Your's is the best. Thank you.

@lii1Il Год назад

Love what your doing TY!!!

@JohnMulhall Год назад

Excellent video !

@JerryPaulTreeCreations Год назад

Its amazing how watching these videos can get my brain going. For example, with this sand battery, it made me think of the fans people buy to put on top of their wood burning stoves to circulate the warm air. I'm not sure how they work, but I know that they don't need anything but the heat in order to run. (internal Peltier device?) Again, always inspiring to watch your videos, Robert. Thank you. Cheers!

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

awesome mate - well there are two types one is a Peltier and the other - usually sold in India is a small striking motor

@JerryPaulTreeCreations Год назад

Lol... I couldn't help myself. A few minutes of 'research' confirmed that it is a type of peltier device that makes those fans run.

@JerryPaulTreeCreations Год назад

@@ThinkingandTinkering I couldn't help but think of Luke's off grid project, and his beautiful new rocket stove, being used to charge a sand battery along with one of these fans to circulate heat within his cabin.

@richardamullens Год назад

@@ThinkingandTinkering Presumably you mean Stirling motor, not striking motor

@TheRoyalBavarian Год назад

Great input. Well done. I've thought of having a house extremely well insulated (hay bale ? ) That makes use of passive energy for heat in the day. With an array of simple heat producing solar panels. The heat from the panels would go into a insulated room filled with columns of sand batteries. The heat from these would be used at night and possibly hot water. It's all in having a little fun.

@casey5165 Год назад

This is what I'm looking for. I'm in the middle of nowhere, I've been thinking along about this idea since I heard about it. I'm autistic so I need to know why and how. If you're the smartest person in the room you're a teacher or you're in the wrong room.

@nathantonning Год назад

Excellent explanation!

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

cheers mate

@craignehring Год назад

Thank you for the ideas

@Good4All4Good Год назад

With the excellent explanation & demonstration, the cheap sourcing of parts, and after pausing to review the cool infograms (where have those electricity relationship triangles been all my life?), I'm not so afraid to practice with electricity. And I always wanted a sand heater, sand battery, sand anything!

@ThinkingandTinkering Год назад

awesome mate